IRC office hours/Office hours 2013-07-17

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See also: w:Wikipedia:Snuggle/IRC/2013-07-17
– Topic set by halfak|mobile to: Office Hours: Wiki-mentors & Snuggle - Agenda: http://is.gd/YKQAIp - Snuggle: http://snuggle.grouplens.org - Docs: http://is.gd/cvIMhD
theo|food:  halfak|Mobile: snuggle doesn't load for me
halfak|Mobile is checking it out
theo|food:  Let me screenshot what I see, one sec
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theo|food:  Huh, that's weird
theo|food:  Why does it want my Apple ID?
Technical_13 will be able to contribute more once I get to school.
theo|food:  Or rather why does safari want to autologin with it..
halfak|Mobile:  Apple ID?  
halfak|Mobile:  You can log into your wiki account through Snuggle. 
theo|food:  http://i.imgur.com/bGIMTNI.png
theo|food:  No, I know
theo|food:  Snuggle used to work for me a few months ago
halfak|Mobile:  It could be that I set up proper HTTPS encryption since then
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theo|food:  What do I need to do to be able to access it? That's the question ;)
halfak|Mobile:  Hmm... I guess I'm not sure what the problem is.  
halfak|Mobile:  You should be able to access Snuggle from any modern browser. 
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theo|food:  Works in Chrome, just not safari
halfak|Mobile:  Strange.  Would you be willing to file a bug and attach that screenshot for me @ https://bitbucket.org/grouplens/snuggle/issues ?
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theo|food:  Sure
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halfak:  Thanks!
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addshore:  right then :)
addshore:  2 mins
Fluffernutter:  can I ask a high-level question that might well show off how little I've read the snuggle documentation? I know that snuggle is intended to help us sort good new users from bad ones, but...what are we supposed to do with them once we have them in those buckets?
addshore:  monitor them, help them, block them? :)
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halfak:  Fluffernutter: Good question
halfak:  Snuggle allows you to perform some actions -- sending a message, inviting the user to the teahouse or reporting them to admins. 
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halfak:  OK.  Time to kick things off.  Welcome to this office hours session.  
addshore:  :>
halfak:  In order to make sure that we get a good discussion in, I've made an agenda with time bounds. 
halfak:  Note the topic for a link. 
halfak:  We'll start with a discussion of mentorship in Wikipedia -- where it happens, what works and what doesn't. 
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halfak:  Then we'll move on to discussing how Snuggle can support current and future processes. 
halfak:  After this office hours session, I'll hop over to #wikipedia-snuggle to continue the discussion about the next steps that we'll take with the Snuggle software. 
halfak:  Ocaasi, is there anything you'd like to say before we get moving?
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Ocaasi:  I think mentorship is really essential to learning.  We have a great 'many-to-many' help model going in the Teahouse.  Mentorship is more of a one-to-one approach that currently happens through the Adopt-a-User program.  I think there are a lot of ways we could make that program even more effective, starting with identifying potential mentees.
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halfak:  That's a great lead in to discussing mentorship spaces in Wikipedia. 
halfak:  So, on the agenda document, we built a list of mentoring spaces in Wikipedia and Freenode to canvass for participation in this discussion.  Are there any important ones that we missed?
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Ocaasi:  quick reference: help desk, reference desk, articles for creation, teahouse, snuggle, and adopt-a user
Ocaasi:  and irc-en-help
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Pratyya:  yes Ocaasi  is absolutely right.
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Ocaasi:  all of those, except for adopt-a-user work on specific questions or articles, rather than a more a teaching partnership that engages over a longer term
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sikob1:  to what extent do we consider transactional spaces (getting an answer to a question) to be actual mentorship?  i think the model in help desk is pretty different from adopt-a-user, for example
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theo|food:  I think that's what Ocaasi was getting at above
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halfak:  Did anyone here take advantage of these mentoring spaces when you were a newcomer?  If so, did it help?
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Nathan2055:  I was mentored.
Ocaasi:  Nathan2055: interesting, where and with who, if you don't mind sharing
Nathan2055:  It did help me a lot, but I was unfortunate enough that half-way through my mentor retired. :P
Nathan2055:  Let me grab the archives...
Prabash:  My mentor retired aswell
theopolisme:  Heh, and I think that brings up an interesting point, redundancy... or ways for other mentors to pick up the slack of their co-mentors
Ocaasi:  that's definitely an issue with one-to-one approaches, the mentee is dependent on a single point of failure
sikob1:  I hear that about adopt-a-user a lot, where either the mentor or the mentee leaves partway through
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Prabash:  Yeah that's a big flaw with the system
Nathan2055:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nathan2055/Archive_1#Adoption
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addshore:  I was adopted
slventura:  do we have a sense of what is not working in the relationships? is there a way to help with matching?
sikob1:  have mentors here had similar experiences, where mentees leave partway through? do people think a setup with shorter adoption periods might be something to look into?
Prabash:  Addshore, you serious?
Technical_13:  I would like to see a WMF backed "How to be a mentor" program, but that may be off-topic here.
addshore:  and I have adopted
addshore:  Prabash: hell yeh!
Prabash:  And you're a  beaurocrat now
sikob1:  Technical_13: what would that program include?
Pratyya:  I can't believe my eyes addshore
sikob1:  training for mentors?
Nathan2055:  I was offered a mentorship, I didn't even know about it beforehand.
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Prabash:  Hello Pratyya!
Nathan2055:  What we really need is a system to hook them up around account creation time.
Prabash:  Yeah
Prabash:  ^like
addshore:  hmm actually Pratyya  and Prabash may have just been admin coaching
theopolisme:  ...addshore, now that he's old and crattish his memory starts failing him...
halfak:  Nathan2055:  Agreed.  That's one of the reasons I put Snuggle together -- to make it easier for mentors to find mentees in need of help. 
Ocaasi:  With Teahouse there are invites sent automatically to new editors who jump right into editing.  Mentorship might target similarly promising new editors.
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Ocaasi:  otherwise it's hard to even know the mentorship program exists
Technical_13:  I see a lot of people complete being adoption and the next day looking for users to adopt.  I think that is too soon and they need more time to get familiar with wiki-policies and such.  I'd be happy to elaborate in 15-20 minutes.  On the bus atm.
sikob1:  Ocaasi: agree - we've seen good results from inviting people rather than waiting for them to stumble upon things
theopolisme:  Technical_13: +1
Cool101:  Hi guys. Technical_13 I agree
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Cool101:  Arctic Kangaroo was trying to rush his to adopt me, but it doesnt work
sikob1:  Technical_13: so, a pathway from adoptee to adopter.  that makes sense.  in teahouse, we've seen good results with guests becoming hosts over time.
Ocaasi:  So there's a sense there should be some basic mentor requirements or at least expectations?
Nathan2055:  I remember a troublesome user I was dealing with back in The Olden Days(TM) that had stuck a looking for adobtees userbox on their page.
Pratyya:  Cool101:  I agree with u.
waldir:  halfak, did you see my latest comment at https://bitbucket.org/grouplens/snuggle/issue/50/add-headers-to-the-interface ?
Nathan2055:  He had just barely not gotten a vandalism block.
Cool101:  I ended up taking Dusti, but I have the most ridiculous block right now, so I cant start
Ocaasi:  halfak: if adopt-a-user was more user-friendly, would you consider adding an invite to the adoption program action?
Technical_13:  Guys, can we keep generic "I agree" comments to a minimum unless you have something else to add as well? Thanks.
halfak:  waldir: I did.  If you stick around for the follow-up session in #wikipedia-snuggle, I'll talk about it more.  For the time being, suffice it to say that the headers are more aligned than you think -- which is a problem in itself. 
halfak:  Ocaasi: totally.  I think that's an excellent idea. 
Cool101:  I agree
halfak:  Do we have anyone who works as a mentor in the adopt-a-user project?
Technical_13:  Cool101: not the place to talk about your current block. Thanks.
waldir:  halfak, ok, thanks for the update. I'll stay :)
Cool101:  Oh I'm not Technical_13 I was adding in
Technical_13:  ...
theopolisme:  halfak: *looks for worm_that_turned*
Cool101:  theopolisme Worm doesn't use IRC very often
theopolisme:  No one invited him I see..
Nathan2055:  I was just invited by T13.
Nathan2055:  *shrugs*
halfak:  I posted on WT:Adopt-a-user, but I didn't know well enough to invite directly.
slventura:  ocaasi: +1 having some basic mentor/mentee requirements is part of the solution. some flexibility around the 'commitment' might be another way to increase success
sikob1:  one thing we've been talking about doing is surveying adopt-a-user participants to learn what the pain points are there - i'd be really interested in gathering more points to add to the one Technical_13 brought up
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sikob1:  has anything like that been done before?
Technical_13:  Adopt a user has no adopter list or category page, so it was hard to pick out ones not already invited from other lists..  must have missed him  :(
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Cool101:  Wait...on theb Adopt-A-User pag, it lists adopters
addshore:  heh, i wonder if I am there
Technical_13:  In templates full of adoptees as well.
Technical_13:  No easy list of just adopters.
Cool101:  addshore do you adopt? Just curious. You could add your name
Ocaasi:  one idea that slventura brought up is having more granularity in the mentee approach, so that a mentor might take a mentee through one project or lesson, but then they could float to another mentor for the next one.  that might help with the retention and fall-off issue
Ocaasi:  here's the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user/Adoptee%27s_Area/Adopters
slventura:  Technical_13: +1, you're absolutely right, having more options to engage on both sides might help as well
Prabash:  What happened to the snuggle discussions?
Ocaasi:  Pratyya: coming next
Cool101:  Yeah I'm confused too Prabash
Cool101:  Lol Occasi that's Prabash not Pratyya]
GorillaWarfare:  Prabash, Cool101: Look at the schedule in the topic.
Ocaasi:  oh, sorry
halfak:  Are there any collections of /wiki-lessons/ anywhere?
Cool101:  Oh whoops
sikob1:  an idea slventura has started to writeup about mentorship experimentation is here (would be great to get more folks involved as this idea develops): http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining_WP_Mentorship
Cool101:  I didnt get to see it in detail. Thanks GorillaWarfarr
NotASpy:  isn't the glaring problem the fact we let any random idiot adopt a new user, regardless of whether or not they, themselves, have any level of clue to edit WP properly ?
Ocaasi:  halfak: many mentors have a curriculum, loosely related but customized per mentor preference
Ocaasi:  i'll get you a link
Cool101:  Do we not an RfM/Request for Mentotship ;)
GorillaWarfare:  I agree that one of the weakest points in almost all of our helping programs, be it Teahouse, Adoption, IRC, is inexperience of the people trying to help.
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Prabash:  Heh
Technical_13:  NotASpy: that was part of my point...
Pratyya:  guys forgive me for 5-6 minutes. I need to have my dinner. It's 10:30 PM here.
Cool101:  Oh whoops. It's 12:30 PM where I am ;)
Cool101:  Anyway, a user needs to have their contribs looked into before they adopt anyone
Cool101:  Community approved?
theopolisme:  But when you try to regulate it, it becomes difficult
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Technical_13:  Cool101: I thought dusti was adopting you?
NotASpy:  we've got Arbs out there who really should know better but can't manage to do adoptions properly.
Ocaasi:  lessons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Worm_That_Turned/Adopt, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:John_F._Lewis/Adopt, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Yunshui/Adoption/Adoption_page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Go_Phightins!/Adopt, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brambleberry_of_RiverClan/Adoption,
Ocaasi:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:OrenBochman/Adoption
theopolisme:  Because who's doing the regulating?
Cool101:  Technical_13 he is
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halfak:  Are you guys thinking of something like RfA? 
halfak:  e.g. Request for Mentor status?
theopolisme:  Eugghh I don't think we need any more hats
Cool101:  halfak mayb
Technical_13:  That might be overkill..
NotASpy:  that wouldn't work.
Ocaasi:  it would have to be much more lightweight, maybe just an edit count requirement and an endorsement from one other editor?
NotASpy:  and that's not enough.
GorillaWarfare:  Agreed, no more userrights
Cool101:  No. But we need it to be community approved. We can't have adopters that will end up getting their adoptees blocked
halfak:  OK.  This is a really interesting discussion.  It seems like we agree on the problem, but the solution is not obvious.  
GorillaWarfare:  Ocaasi: I don't see that working well either -- we have a lot of new editors who seem pretty interested in racking up their edit count without actually contributing terribly usefully
theopolisme:  halfak: exactly.
halfak:  I need to switch out topics quick, but I'd like to continue this discussion on-wiki later.  
theopolisme:  Sure
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Cool101:  Lol or schedule another IRC time...
GorillaWarfare:  halfak: Sounds good.
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halfak:  So next up is Snuggle as a tool for mentors.  We've had some discussion about the pattern by which mentors discover (or are discovered by) mentees.  I've designed Snuggle to allow mentors to *actively* identify mentees in need of help.  
NotASpy:  if an approval process for mentors is done properly, it could go some way to deal with the perennial child protection concerns brought up by various parties.
halfak:  1. Do mentors want to actively seek out mentees
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Pratyya:  umm... what have I missed?!
halfak:  2. Does snuggle in it's current form help?
halfak:  3. If not, what's needed?
GorillaWarfare:  Pratyya: ?
slventura:  halfak: +1, having a way of identifying the level of technical knowledge (mentee) or tolerance to mentor newbies (mentor) might help with outcome
TheAwesomeOne:  Nm Pratyya
Pratyya:  Actually I wasn't here for 5 mins...
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I_Jethrobot:  Good day, folks.
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Ocaasi:  Pratyya: just some discussion about the issues in mentorship.  look for meeting notes on wiki... we're moving onto Snuggle
Pratyya:  oay Ocaasi
Technical_13:  Okay, I'm now on laptop (albeit Webchat) and I can contribute more...
TheAwesomeOne:  ok
halfak:  For those who just joined, I asked about Snuggle as a tool for mentors.  Do mentors *want* to actively seek out mentees?  Does snuggle work for that?  If not, what's missing?
NotASpy:  halfak: I'm still playing with Snuggle but in reference to 2/3, I think you need to see more about what edits lead to what warnings. I'm looking at a couple of users with a Vandalism Level 1 warning and I can't readily see from in the tool what they were warned for.
GorillaWarfare:  halfak: I think actively seeking out mentees is wise. As for Snuggle, I'm new to the tool
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GorillaWarfare:  Are there any plans to move Snuggle to a WMF-hosted site? I have to admit, entering my Wikipedia credentials on a non-WMF site makes me supremely uncomfortable.
I_Jethrobot:  halfak:  I like the tool a great deal, though I've only been using it a little over the past few days.  I think it's a great way to ID mentees.
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halfak:  Agreed Gorilla Warfare.   I'm planning to move to WMFLabs as soon as OAuth is ready in MediaWiki. 
NotASpy:  I tend to find a lot of editors in real need of help aren't the ones with talk pages full of templates issued by bots and good faith editors armed with some automated tool of some sort, but the ones who have landed at places like ANI and who are really confused.
waldir:  halfak, I like the idea of Snuggle for those who actively want to seek mentees, but I would personally prefer having some sort of suggestions delivered regularly instead.
GorillaWarfare:  halfak: Hah, is there even a planned date for that..?
TheAwesomeOne:  I'd agree GorillaWarfare
marktraceur:  GorillaWarfare: Wikinaut is working tirelessly with Ryan_Lane, I'd ask one of them
waldir:  halfak, something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SuggestBot but for newbies :)
waldir:  For instance, I'd love to be informed of new users editing articles in topics I care aboit
halfak:  It's supposed to be the end of this month.  For the time being, I recommend registering an alternative account for use in Snuggle if you feel uncomfortable. 
Technical_13:  oauth... Let me see if cstiepp is available to comment on that quickly...
waldir:  *about
halfak:  waldir: That
halfak:  's an interesting idea
TheAwesomeOne:  Agreed
waldir:  yeah, it's the polar opposite of Snuggle but I thought it might be worth mentioning :)
NotASpy:  new users getting a gentle introduction with templates, kind words from random editors, they're being broken into the site gently (and are presumably more likely to be picked up by Snuggle). It's the ones landed in the middle of something confusing that need rescued.
sikob1:  love the idea of suggested matches between mentors and mentees
sikob1:  based on topics in common?
GorillaWarfare:  I think matching mentors/mentees could be difficult — we have way more people who could use mentorship than we have qualified mentors.
I_Jethrobot:  Agreed.
theopolisme:  waldir: i like you idea, quite a bit
Ocaasi:  yes, it would be amazing for editors to have a basic profile which identified their interests and strengths and editors who might be able to help them.  wikiprojects, could be useful there.
theopolisme:  *your
theopolisme:  Doesn't the athena project incorporate that to some degree, Ocaasi?
theopolisme:  As far as standardized profiles go
NotASpy:  matching mentors and mentee has it's down sides if the mentor isn't vetted, and gets a meatpuppet sent to them courtesy of the WMF, basically.
theopolisme:  With interests, wikiprojects, etc
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I_Jethrobot:  Mentoring should not really be about identifying similar article interests between mentors/mentees but about guiding new editors through the structure and policies so that new editors can be better prepared.
Prabash:  I got an idea for a bot... A bot that can tag pages for deletion , judge if its a BLP or not and verify sources
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Elsie:  its *
theopolisme:  Ocaasi: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Athena-Wikimania-2012-GlobalProfile-BrandonHarris.png
Elsie:  it's *
waldir:  in openstreetmap there's a tool for generating a feed of new users editing in specific geographical areas, as an RSS feed: http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosmcreatefeed ? something like that for wikipedia would be excelent!
YuviPanda:  theopolisme: Athena was just a design thought experiment, it isn't really coming alive by itself. Flow, VE, future enhancements all come from there. GlobalProfile might be worked on at some point in the future, but not now
Ocaasi:  theopolisme: yes, thought that's a bit down the road.  an interim solution would be some metadata on adoptee profiles, or a way new editors coud be invited to choose from a list of wikiprojects that interest them from their userpage
theopolisme:  YuviPanda: I'm aware of that :p
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theopolisme:  But I mean, it's somethign to think about
YuviPanda:  true, but there's nothing planned on it anytime soon. You can definitely pick up ideas from that though :)
Technical_13:  [12:41] <GorillaWarfare> Are there any plans to move Snuggle to a WMF-hosted site? I have to admit, entering my Wikipedia credentials on a non-WMF site makes me supremely uncomfortable.
Technical_13:  [12:41] <halfak> Agreed Gorilla Warfare.   I'm planning to move to WMFLabs as soon as OAuth is ready in MediaWiki.
GorillaWarfare:  Technical_13: ??
Technical_13:  csteipp: ^^ comments?
NotASpy:  I_Jethrobot: although there's a need to be careful, matching adoptees and mentors up based on areas of common interest could be useful, especially when a specific subject area has a preferred layout for articles, uses specific templates etc. It gets the user up to speed more quickly.
GorillaWarfare:  Prabash: Probably not the place for a bot discussion.
Technical_13:  What is the status?  does Oauth have an eta to completion?
csteipp:  We're working to get OAuth rolled out, and I'm working with Aaron to get snuggle using it. We're planning to have oauth deployed on the cluster before Wikimania
I_Jethrobot:  NotASpy:  Agreed, I think it can be helpful, but I agree with GorillaWarfare that this is not usually going to be possible given the disparity in mentors and mentees.
sikob1:  it seems like if adopters and adoptees each answered a few questions about themselves, it could be a lightweight way to try match-making between them
Technical_13:  For those of us who don't know when Wikimania is... ??
theopolisme:  Technical_13: August
Technical_13:  :)
Technical_13:  So, Within a month or so.. Great! :)
I_Jethrobot:  halfak:  TheOriginalSoni and I were discussing that it might be helpful for Snuggle to color-identify edits made to The Teahouse and AfC since those are regular outlets for new users.  It would helpful to quickly see if they are engaging these projects.
NotASpy:  Technical_13: that was what was mentioned before.
halfak:  csteipp: Thanks for coming in to comment.   Technical_13: Could we save these technical discussions for the follow-up session.
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waldir:  so far I have only mentored people I come across by chance by finding them editing the same articles I do. But I'm sure there are lots I could have offered a hand. I know topic-specific advice isn't what mentorship is supposed to be about, but I personaly feel more motivated when I'm mentoring someone who can contribute to the areas I'm interested in!
halfak:  I_Jethrobot: That's a good idea.  Would you mind filing it as a feature here: http://bitbucket.org/grouplens/snuggle/issues?
waldir:  so I do tink matching mentees/mentors would be useful
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I_Jethrobot:  halfak:  You got it.
waldir:  especially for the potential mentors who don't bother actively looking for mentees (like me :P)
Technical_13:  I must have missed that NotASpy, I was probably trying to transition from droid client to laptop...
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Ocaasi:  just out of curiosity, is there an editing pattern you think would lead to a mentorship invite rather than a teahouse invite?
Ocaasi:  or do they overlap
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Chris___:  I would think TeaHouse is for problematic users... helpful users can be shuttled to a WIkiProject
sikob1:  i'd guess they'd overlap - some people feel more comfortable asking questions in a forum, some want 1:1 help…i'm not sure you can tell this from first day/week edit patterns.
GorillaWarfare:  Chris___: I don't see the Teahouse as being for problematic users.
Technical_13:  I'm looking at Snuggle right now, and it would be good to know who sent the Teahouse invitation.. So, instead of "<username>, you are invited to the Teahouse" it could be "HostBot invited to the Teahouse"
sikob1:  teahouse guests right now are invited based on first day edit patterns - good faith, active new editors
Ocaasi:  Chris___: lots of teahouse editors are fantastic.  i haven't seen the problematic trend
GorillaWarfare:  Ocaasi: I see mentorship as for more experienced but still new users; Teahouse is for very new users.
Prabash:  Ocassi, it would be a mixed editing pattern of good and bad
GorillaWarfare:  I see new editors as going to the Teahouse, and once they're a little steadier on their feet, finding a mentor.
NotASpy:  I've always thought of mentorship as being particularly suitable for those who are ever so slightly over enthusiastic and get themselves into trouble.
sikob1:  GorillaWarfare's point makes sense from the view of a mentor too, I'd guess - you don't want to spend lots of time on someone who isn't going to stick around beyond a day or 2, and we have loads of new editors who fit this pattern
Chris___:  GorrilaWarfare: Ocassi: I think an editor who doesn't understand how the wiki works or what "encyclopedic" means could use help from TeaHouse.  Editors that "get it" can simply be shown where ther efforts are needed by a WikiProject
GorillaWarfare:  sikob1: Right, and a lot of new editors just want to make a few fixes, not learn about Wikipedia culture, etc.
sikob1:  agree
NotASpy:  +1
Technical_13:  I'm looking at "Nfsaonline" right now... and I see "Speedy deletion nomination of Fractured Heart" for [[File:Fractured Heart in action.jpg]] and when I go to check it out, the csd is gone, there is a OTRS permission slip on it and a tag for a move to commons...  This extra detail would be useful in Snuggle instead of having to investigate.
sikob1:  the thing I like about Snuggle is it shows activity over time for new editors, so you can see who comes back over a period of days/weeks
Ocaasi:  agreed huggle's strength is that it gives a better sense of a new editor's trajectory
Ocaasi:  snuggle
Ocaasi:  :/
sikob1:  filtering for a subset who are editing over a period of days might be a useful way to come up with a list of potential mentees to send invites to?
NotASpy:  might be worth thinking about a less confusing name...
halfak:  confusing...
NotASpy:  sikob1: and if you're doing that, you might as well extract the data on what they're editing, what Wikiproject(s) would be best suited for them etc.
NotASpy:  halfak: maybe too similar to Huggle ?
Technical_13:  More memorable... :p
TheAwesomeOne:  GorillaWarfare is there a more specific definition of "experienced" or "new" ?
Ocaasi:  NotASpy: like that idea a lot.  snuggle as a way to generate some basic profile-like info
sikob1:  NotASpy: agree, topic-based information would be an amazing addition to snuggle - to see what topics people are editing, not just how much/often
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Ocaasi:  halfak: have you considered an invite to wikiproject action?
GorillaWarfare:  TheAwesomeOne: Experienced: more than just a few small edits under their belt, starting to learn about policies. New: just joined, only made a few small edits, don't even know that we have policies.
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Technical_13:  ...
NotASpy:  most articles have some sort of Wikiproject data on the talk page, or a suitable category on the article page, it should be relatively easy to take that data and determine the editor's rough area(s) of interest.
halfak:  Ocaasi:  Totally.  I've configured the actions structure to be easily extended.
Technical_13:  Apparently we should have scheduled much more time for this meeting... The agenda has "1655 UTC     Wrap up & next steps."
TheAwesomeOne:  Like maybe editors with say 750 good edits while those w/<500 should use the Teahouse
TheAwesomeOne:  Jeex
TheAwesomeOne:  zx
GorillaWarfare:  TheAwesomeOne: I'd say 750 is high
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halfak:  If you start a discussion on WT:Snuggle about the action and I'll follow the concensus. 
Technical_13:  So, the question is, are there any meetings scheduled after this one that we need to vacate for?
Ocaasi:  seems more like 20 for teahouse, 100 for mentorship
TheAwesomeOne:  Hm...500 then? Some new users like to play with their userpage
halfak:  OK Guys.  It looks like we're out of time.  
GorillaWarfare:  halfak: I think discussing a system of making sure mentors are experienced enough is important. Where would you say that should go?
GorillaWarfare:  TheAwesomeOne: I would honestly put it closer to 100
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Technical_13:  Does everyone want to continue this here or move it to #wikipedia-snuggle?
I_Jethrobot:  I can't really buy into the edit count argument; experience has always been a case-by-case basis for me.
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halfak:  We've covered a lot of space here and I've gotten a lot of feedback for Snuggle.  
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GorillaWarfare:  TheAwesomeOne: But yeah, I agree with I_Jethrobot
TheAwesomeOne:  OK whatever the community thinks is the right choice
Ocaasi:  TheAwesomeOne: if snuggle could filter by namespace we could look for article-space edits only
Technical_13:  I think edit count requirements are bleh..
halfak:  For those of you who want to keep chatting, I'm hoping over to #wikipedia-snuggle.  
TheAwesomeOne:  That'd help
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TheAwesomeOne:  Some editors with 5,000 edits only have like 200 to article space
I_Jethrobot:  Are we switching over?
halfak:  For those who have to run, but want to stay involved with Snuggle activities, see WP:Snuggle or #wikipedia-snuggle any other time. 
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halfak:  Thanks again for your time everyone. 
GorillaWarfare:  halfak: Thoughts on where that mentor-experience discussion should go?
halfak:  BTW, I'm User:EpochFail if you want to catch me on wiki. 
Prabash:  Ok I have a question about snuggle
Technical_13:  Prabash: Please ask on #wikipedia-snuggle.
halfak:  I'd like to suggest WT:Snuggle for pushing on bigger ideas.  I plan to some topic discussions there. 
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halfak:  Technical_13: Yes.  
Technical_13:  We are moving there. :)
GorillaWarfare:  halfak: Even though the mentorship discussion isn't snuggle-related?
GorillaWarfare:  Or at least, not exclusively
Technical_13:  GorillaWarfare: It kind of is included. :)
Prabash:  Snuggle is compatible with IOS devices am I correct?
halfak:  For the time being.  We can reform in another space from WT:Snuggle. 
GorillaWarfare:  Alrighty.
halfak:  Prabash: ---> #wikipedia-snuggle
Technical_13:  @info
wm-bot:  http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/dump/%23wikimedia-office.htm
Technical_13:  A follow-up session will be held immediately afterwards in #wikipedia-snuggleconnect to discuss some issues of interest to Snuggle users.      The visibility of Snuggle users' actions     Access control vs. open     Prioritization of new features     Expansion into other languages (e.g. ptwiki)     Supporting HostBot
Technical_13:  #wikipedia-snuggle
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Technical_13:  @statistics-off
wm-bot:  Statistics are now disabled
Technical_13:  @seen-off
wm-bot:  Seen is now disabled in the channel
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Technical_13:  Just turning off stuff I turned on at start... Re-enabling the logging as I promised I would at start.
Technical_13:  @logon
wm-bot:  Channel is now logged
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I_Jethrobot:  halfak - I added a proposal on BitBucket page for Snuggle re: color-coding Teahouse and AfC edits.
Technical_13:  I_Jethrobot: We moved to #wikipedia-snuggle
I_Jethrobot:  (oops I was on the wrong tab...)