IRC office hours/Office hours 2014-06-04

Log

• FDC

First session

Time: 00:00-01:00 UTC
Channel: #wikimedia-office
Timestamps are in UTC.
[00:00:03] <Risker> james I just got your earlier joke
[00:00:18] <Jamesofur> heh
[00:00:32] <Jamesofur> I hope it worked well :)
[00:00:41] <Risker> yes, those dandelions are decimated
[00:01:03] <patrickearley> Hello everyone, welcome to today’s Office Hour, regarding Nominations for candidates to join the FDC. KatyLove and Anasuya will be answering questions. A reminder - this channel is publicly logged. Without further ado, we’ll get things going.
[00:01:07] <KatyLove> Hi everyone!
[00:01:13] <KatyLove> Welcome to what I hope will be a fun office hours
[00:01:22] <KatyLove> Welcome Anasuya !
[00:01:30] <Anasuya> Hi Katy - and everyone else!
[00:01:40] <KatyLove> Here we are to answer any questions with the help of patrickearley about the FDC nominations
[00:01:50] <KatyLove> We are also joined by FDC member delphine, thank you delphine for joining!
[00:01:59] <KatyLove> Do we have any other FDC members here to chime in with their experiences?
[00:02:14] <KatyLove> Don't think so.
[00:02:25] <KatyLove> So! The FDC is looking for four new members.
[00:02:35] <KatyLove> You can see the documentation of the process on MEta, here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations
[00:03:08] <KatyLove> Up until June 15 we are accepting nominations on Meta
[00:03:24] <KatyLove> We encourage everyone who is interested to check it out.
[00:03:35] <KatyLove> There is also a public quesiton and answer session.
[00:03:54] <KatyLove> If you're interested in asking questions of candidates, you are welcome to do so here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations/Q%26A
[00:04:09] <KatyLove> So, what questions do folks have about the FDC?
[00:04:35] <Anasuya> The public Q&A continues till the end of this month
[00:04:48] <KatyLove> delphine-perhaps you can share what your experience has been as an FDC member? Just a teaser?
[00:04:50] <KatyLove>  :)
[00:04:52] <Risker> I'd like to get Delphine's perspective on the time commitment
[00:04:56] <KatyLove> Since you are awake after all…
[00:05:12] <Anasuya> That's a great question, Risker
[00:05:19] <delphine> The time commitment is very un-balanced, if I may put it that way.
[00:06:01] <delphine> Basically, there is a period of about 6 to 8 weeks (depending on deadlines etc) where it is quite time consuming.
[00:06:37] <delphine> Reading the proposals etc.
[00:06:41] <KatyLove> That would be in April/May and again in October/November
[00:06:46] <delphine> yep
[00:06:50] <KatyLove> Proposals arrive April 1 and OCtober 1
[00:06:59] <KatyLove> and FDC makes its recommendations by June 1 and Dec 1
[00:07:14] <delphine> then the rest of the time it is really manageable.
[00:07:26] <delphine> not that the intense part isn't, but it *is* intense
[00:07:54] <Risker> how many days for the in-person meetings?
[00:08:20] <delphine> So if I had to give time slots, I'd say one / two hours per week maximum in normal time. up to 8/10 in intense time.
[00:08:33] <delphine> 5/6 days depending on travel time.
[00:08:42] <KatyLove> During the off season, there are other events (Wikimania, orientation, etc) but much less intensive!
[00:09:23] <delphine> this time around, it was 2 days shorter for me than for everyone else, since it happened where I live ;)
[00:09:37] <Risker> excellent!
[00:09:52] <Risker> what do you find most rewarding about the work, Delphine?
[00:10:03] <KatyLove> And we tend to do one in SF and one in Europe
[00:10:06] <KatyLove> for the deliberations
[00:10:18] <Risker> SF in november usually, right?
[00:10:49] <Anasuya> Yes, that's right
[00:11:04] <KatyLove> The SF meeting is most intensive, to date.
[00:11:10] <delphine> I think positive feedback, like we've had this time, is the best. I like to think that we've not only given money but hopefully insight and advice.
[00:11:21] <KatyLove> Many more proposals come in during that time (the Northern hemisphere fall)
[00:11:56] <Risker> yes, delphine, this round's results were I think more valuable
[00:12:28] <delphine> see, exactly that :D
[00:12:34] <delphine> Thank you Risker!
[00:13:27] <delphine> so that's for the reward. But the most interesting part of the "job", I find, is the process and how it works
[00:13:37] <KatyLove> What would you say have been challenges of being an FDC member, delphine?
[00:14:38] <notafish> (even if not always the ones I'd like ;))
[00:14:39] <notafish> hmpf
[00:14:46] <notafish> got disconnected, sorry
[00:14:59] <KatyLove> welcome back notafish
[00:17:10] <KatyLove> Any thoughts about challenges of being an FDC member, notafish?
[00:18:20] <delphine> The biggest challenge is not to be taken in by pretty applications over good ones.
[00:18:24] <delphine> if that makes sense.
[00:18:44] <KatyLove> What do you mean by pretty?
[00:18:46] <KatyLove> well written?
[00:18:48] <KatyLove> shiny?
[00:18:58] <KatyLove> lots of neat ideas?
[00:19:00] <Anasuya> Yes, to assume that sophisticated language means substantive programs
[00:19:02] <delphine> Keep a sense of fairness, while trying to weigh in the advantages/disadvantages that some applying entities may have or not have in comparison to others.
[00:19:07] <delphine> yes KatyLove
[00:19:21] <Anasuya> Especially for those communities for whom English is not a first language
[00:19:48] <KatyLove> I know the FDC staff and the FDC both try to disregard issues of language in that sense--
[00:19:58] <KatyLove> even if a proposal has typos or language errors, those aren't taken into account
[00:20:15] <Anasuya> And make sure that neat ideas shine through no matter what :-)
[00:20:15] <delphine> If you have XX staff and XX years of grantmaking experience, your application is going to be easier to read and maybe more to the point
[00:20:29] <delphine> so as a member, you have to stay alert on context
[00:20:38] <delphine> CONTEXT IS KEY (caps intended ;))
[00:20:38] <KatyLove> Good point, delphine
[00:20:45] <delphine> although not all of us agree, which is great :D
[00:20:57] <KatyLove> Yes, almost always a real range of opinions...
[00:21:00] <KatyLove> on any issue at all
[00:21:06] <Anasuya>  :-)
[00:21:11] <KatyLove> which makes the deliberations process so interesting
[00:21:21] <Anasuya> Fascinating to observe, and a testimony to the depth of our communities
[00:21:44] <Anasuya> Any other questions, Risker or anyone else?
[00:22:34] <Risker> I suppose the one thing that does still cross my mind is that there have to be occasions where an FDC member is unavailable for part of the deliberations. How do you deal with that?
[00:23:02] <Anasuya> Delphine, do you want to respond?
[00:23:07] <delphine> Well we try to plan in advance so that that does not happen.
[00:23:21] <delphine> ie. our meetings are set up months in advance
[00:23:32] <delphine> (which reminds me, we've got to work on November ;))
[00:23:42] <KatyLove> We're working on it for sure
[00:23:43] <KatyLove>  :)
[00:23:45] <Anasuya> Risker: do you mean by accident, by virtue of scheduling issues or because of CoI?
[00:23:46] <Risker> and also, any particular profile you're looking for, either traits that work or perhaps what might help to diversify the committee
[00:23:53] <delphine> but we've had meetings where some of us were present via Skype
[00:24:01] <Risker> Anasuya, let's say scheduling
[00:24:01] <KatyLove> We always work to coordinate the dates with the Board meeting, to ensure that our two Board reps can attend our meeting and the Board meeting
[00:24:09] <delphine> Risker: more women ;)
[00:24:37] <Anasuya>  :-) We've done our best to make sure to have schedules ready well in advance
[00:24:39] <Anasuya> As Katy mentions
[00:24:43] <KatyLove>  :) :)
[00:24:50] <KatyLove> we all like having the schedule set in advance
[00:24:54] <KatyLove> It's just a bit of a coordination dance
[00:24:55] <Anasuya> And yes, moar women :-)
[00:24:57] <KatyLove> a waltz
[00:24:58] <KatyLove> a tango
[00:25:01] <KatyLove> a foxtrot
[00:25:14] <Risker> heh. As someone who already has 2017 commitments in my calendar, I can understand the challenges
[00:25:24] <delphine> Heh.
[00:26:08] <delphine> Ideal profile: have some kind of a weird view on grant making and Wikimedia programs, I think.
[00:26:10] <KatyLove> 2017, eh? Nice!
[00:26:28] <delphine> What I mean by that is, there isn't *a* profile
[00:26:36] * marktraceur schedules a meeting with Risker in 2022
[00:26:37] <delphine> you gotta be able to read and write
[00:26:51] <delphine> proficiency at wordsmithing is a definite plus
[00:26:59] <Jamesofur> you specifically want a weird view? ;)
[00:27:07] <delphine> and some negociation and discussion skills are good :D
[00:27:15] <Jamesofur> as in different from the rest of the committee, as in the global norm, how so?
[00:27:35] <delphine> Jamesofur: both :)
[00:28:23] <delphine> Differences are good. But it's hard to pinpoint us all.
[00:28:25] <Anasuya> I think background in finance, grants or project management of some kind helps. Also experience in the Wikimedia community online or offline of course.
[00:29:08] <Anasuya> Delphine, was 'weird view' intentional?? ;-)
[00:29:18] <delphine> yes!
[00:29:29] <Risker> thanks everyone for all this information....I have to step away now, but am glad I had the chance to hear this
[00:29:31] <delphine> it came out wrong, lol, it's late here
[00:29:47] <Anasuya> But yes, certainly a world view too, chuckle. An ability to think more broadly across a portfolio of grant proposals
[00:30:00] <delphine> I meant that all of us approach the applications from very different directions.
[00:30:11] <KatyLove> diversity of experience is certainly valued by the FDC
[00:30:12] <delphine> and that is what makes the process strong.
[00:30:14] <Anasuya> ...and what the 'so what' is for the Wikimedia mission and movement
[00:30:17] <delphine> thanks Risker !
[00:30:24] <patrickearley> Thanks for joining, Risker
[00:30:29] <Anasuya> Thanks Risker!
[00:30:48] <delphine> Actually, I think a real solid background in finance would be a good plus for at least one of the four.
[00:30:50] <Anasuya> Jamesofur: do you have any more questions for us?
[00:31:38] <KatyLove> yes, thanks Risker!
[00:31:43] <KatyLove> Do let us know if you have any other questions
[00:31:46] <KatyLove> And that reminds me...
[00:32:01] <KatyLove> you can always reach out to FDCsupport@wikimedia.org with any other questions
[00:32:15] <KatyLove> Anasuya, Winifred and I get those emails -- we are the face behind FDCsupport :)
[00:32:46] <KatyLove> The FDC portal has lots more information here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal
[00:34:02] <KatyLove> Read more about the current FDC here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee
[00:34:06] <KatyLove> No more questions?
[00:34:12] <KatyLove> I've left our contact cards above… :)
[00:36:57] <Anasuya> As a reminder of dates!
[00:36:59] <Anasuya> * Now - June 15: Self-nominations to join the FDC. Candidates indicate their interest through a short paragraph about themselves, and respond to an initial set of questions from the FDC staff * June 1 - June 30: Public question and answer from community members to candidates * June 24 - July 3: FDC staff in consultation with the FDC Board representatives (Bishakha Datta and Patricio Lorente) interview a sub-set of nominate
[00:37:17] <KatyLove> Anyone that wants to join in later today/tomorrow (depending on your timezone) and ask more questions, know that we have another IRC office hours at 16;00 UTC on Wednesday June 4
[00:37:31] <KatyLove> Any last questions before we close?
[00:37:44] <KatyLove> Well, you know where to reach us! FDCsupport@wikimedia.org
[00:38:19] <KatyLove> Thanks patrickearley for your help, and to everyone reading this conversation.
[00:38:28] <delphine> Yes, thanks. :D
[00:38:33] <Anasuya> Thanks for joining us (and for lurking) :-)
[00:38:39] <patrickearley> No problem, and thanks to everyone who dropped by!
[00:38:44] <KatyLove> And thanks delphine for joining!
[00:38:59] <delphine> Do not hesitate to contact me or any of my fellow FDC members if you need pore info.
[00:39:09] <delphine> *MORE info, sheesh
[00:39:24] <KatyLove>  :)
[00:39:36] <delphine> write to Katy, she'll give you our addresses ;)
[00:39:52] <patrickearley> The log for this session will be available for posterity at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Office_hour_logs
[00:40:04] <KatyLove> Thanks patrickearley!
[00:40:22] <patrickearley> In about 15 mins  ;)
[00:43:08] <delphine> KatyLove, I haven't said WELCOME BACK
[00:43:13] <delphine> so welcome back :D
[00:43:16] <delphine> I'm off!
[00:43:16] <KatyLove> thanks!!
[00:43:19] <KatyLove> It feels great to be back.
[00:43:22] <KatyLove> And good night :)
[00:43:32] <delphine> good Template:Timezone
[00:43:35] <delphine>  ;)
[00:43:40] <KatyLove> exactement
[00:51:30] <harej> hi lila!

Second session

[15:59:56] <Maggie_Dennis> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the FDC office hour. Please remember that this channel is publicly logged. Logs will be posted at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours about 15 minutes after the meeting ends.
[16:00:01] <Maggie_Dennis> We have with us today Katy Love and Anasuya Sengupta. They have a few opening comments and then will take questions. I'll be helping to facilitate, so if you ask questions when they're discussing something else, I'll put them in queue for response.  :)
[16:00:33] <KatyLove> Hi everyone, welcome to the FDC nominations office hour! I am here with Anasuya and we are happy to be here.
[16:00:43] <KatyLove> First I'd like to know if we have any FDC members here..
[16:00:48] <KatyLove> I see CristianCantoro -- welcome!
[16:00:58] <Anasuya> Welcome Cristian!
[16:01:04] <CristianCantoro> KatyLove: I've just arrived, welcome everybody :)
[16:01:10] <KatyLove> We want to share a little bit of information about the nominations process for the FDC.
[16:01:19] <KatyLove> We hope that there will be some questions from interested folks who are considering applying.
[16:01:26] <KatyLove> And that there may be some questions for CristianCantoro or us.
[16:01:43] <Anasuya> The nominations page is where you need to go for the rest: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations
[16:01:47] <KatyLove> The FDC is seeking four new members.
[16:02:00] <KatyLove> To express your interest in being a candidate, click on that link ^^
[16:02:17] <KatyLove> There you'll find the timeline for the process, and the page to submit your interest.
[16:02:31] <KatyLove> Submitting your candidacy involves some basic information as well as some standard questions.
[16:02:39] <KatyLove> You have until June 15 to submit your candidacy.
[16:02:48] <KatyLove> There is also a public question and answer session as part of the process.
[16:03:04] <KatyLove> That will be done here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations/Q%26A
[16:03:17] <KatyLove> For those of you who want to ask all or some candidates some questions as part of their candidacies, you can do so there.
[16:03:48] <KatyLove> A shortlist of candidates will be announced on July 3
[16:03:57] <KatyLove> and the Board will make its decision on July 11
[16:04:10] <KatyLove> That is assuming they decide that the FDC process should continue.
[16:04:31] <KatyLove> So--are there any questions out there, for the FDC staff ( Anasuya or me) or to an actual FDC member ( CristianCantoro)?
[16:04:50] * sj| waves
[16:04:56] <Maggie_Dennis> Hi, sj. :) Welcome.
[16:04:57] * CristianCantoro writes on the wall as ground assumption: "If the FDC still exists ..."
[16:05:03] <KatyLove> I thought it might be interesting to hear a bit about your experience, CristianCantoro, this first year.
[16:05:11] <sj|> yes, it's safe to say the FDC process will continue
[16:05:23] <KatyLove> It is a working assumption :)
[16:05:34] <Anasuya> Ah, from the mouth of the Board... ;-)
[16:05:37] <Anasuya> Thanks, SJ!
[16:06:31] <KatyLove> I don't think we have any folks who have already indicated interest yet on Meta.
[16:06:32] <CristianCantoro> Well, first thing I can say, that when the new members will arrive they will find a process which is already in place (2 years. 4 rounds up to now)
[16:06:42] <KatyLove> Hopefully there are some folks out there who'd like to join this amazing committee. :)
[16:06:55] <CristianCantoro> so onboarding is easier
[16:07:34] <KatyLove> Good point. Speaking of onboarding, we will be doing that in July as well as at Wikimania, face to face.
[16:07:45] <KatieChan> KatyLove, maybe an answer to Effeietsanders' question on the nomination talk page?
[16:07:50] <CristianCantoro> even if we are tweaking the process to make it work better (e.g. full-text recommendations instead of bullet points)
[16:08:16] <KatyLove> Hi @KatieChan :)
[16:08:33] <KatyLove> OK, good idea!
[16:09:23] <Maggie_Dennis> For those who haven't seen it, Effeietsanders' questions are -
[16:09:29] <Maggie_Dennis> 1) Did anything change regarding the requirements compared with last year. 2) Will an elected FDC member be allowed and able to run projects within the framework of an FDC-applying affiliate and 3) will they be allowed to receive reimbursements for actually incurred costs for that from such affiliate (travel, accommodation, acquired items for the activity etc).
[16:09:40] <Maggie_Dennis> (Posted here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations)
[16:09:49] <KatyLove> Thanks Maggie_Dennis!
[16:10:25] <Anasuya> Hi KatieChan, I was just responding to Effeietsanders' question myself - so here it is. There's currently no concern about volunteers getting paid by their organisations for some work being on the FDC. What is asked of all volunteers is to disclose any of these relationships, and to recuse themselves from discussing the organisations with which they are most closely linked.
[16:12:19] <Anasuya> We were simply quoting from the Framework, but these past two years have been about the spirit of the Framework and we've been modifying as we go. There are no major changes right now. But the ED's decision with the Board based on the AG's recommendation may change some substance.
[16:12:33] <Anasuya> We're not sure yet.
[16:12:35] <CristianCantoro> +1 to Anasuya. The point is: if you (and/or the rest of the committee have doubts about COI (even perceived COI) be ready to discose it. As a rule of thumb, FDC members have always recused from evaluating proposals for chapters where they are active members.
[16:13:25] <CristianCantoro> This does not prevent a member to participate in the discussion and recommendation for other entities
[16:13:42] * CristianCantoro is going to put that also on the meta page
[16:14:34] <KatyLove> Thanks, Cristian.
[16:14:39] <KatyLove> And thanks, Katie for the question.
[16:15:12] <KatyLove> CristianCantoro -- what would you say has been a challenge for you in participating in the process?
[16:15:19] <KatyLove> Are there things you'd want potential candidates to consider?
[16:16:54] <CristianCantoro> Be prepared to commit a significant amount of time in the process, especially in the periods between the proposal submission deadline and the recommendation meeting (that's, for example, for last round since April 2nd to the end of May)
[16:17:08] <KatyLove> and again in October/November.
[16:17:16] <CristianCantoro> yep, for round 1
[16:17:20] <KatyLove> Good point.
[16:17:30] <CristianCantoro> the process is very intense in that period and easier in the rest of the year
[16:17:53] <CristianCantoro> practically, that means a lot of reading :)
[16:18:21] <KatyLove> In the "off season," the requirements are definitely fewer. There are monthy phone calls, occasional reports to review, planning meetings, but significantly reduced work. Would you agree, Cristian?
[16:19:41] <CristianCantoro> KatyLove: yes, and to be honest the montly call are mostly for office bearers (Chair, Vice-Chair and Secretary) even if the other members tend to try to participate as much as possible
[16:19:51] <CristianCantoro> *monthly
[16:19:59] <KatyLove> Yup.
[16:20:17] <KatyLove> Do others have questions for any of us?
[16:20:35] <KatyLove> If you'd like to speak personally about it, the FDC team would be happy to chat with you.
[16:20:43] <sj|> Is there a desire to have a certain proportion of committee members who are not affiliated with any FDC-applying entity?
[16:20:48] <KatyLove> You can always reach us at FDCsupport@wikimedia.org -- and that goes to the FDC team. Anasuya, Winifred & me.
[16:21:50] <Anasuya> I think it's very helpful to have a diversity of opinions and backgrounds on the FDC - and that includes contributors not necessarily affiliated to Wikimedia organisations.
[16:22:24] <Anasuya> It's been one of the strengths of the FDC so far - and I think we should do our best to sustain it. Thanks for the question, SJ
[16:23:52] <Anasuya> So far, we've had two FDC members who are not explicitly attached to any organisation and their insights have been really valuable. Cristian?
[16:25:23] <KatyLove> Welcome chandres!
[16:25:32] <chandres> Hello KatyLove  !
[16:26:17] <Maggie_Dennis> Does anyone have any questions about the FDC? :)
[16:26:31] <CristianCantoro> Anasuya: yes, I would add that itt would be interesting to have input from expert in grantmaking from outside the movement
[16:26:53] <CristianCantoro> (that's - in part - what the FDC Advisory Group does)
[16:27:16] <CristianCantoro> *experts
[16:27:40] <Anasuya> Again, as a reminder, some of the skills the FDC is seeking are backgrounds in finance, grants or project management, considerable experience in the Wikimedia movement offline and/or online and diversity across WM projects, geography, language, gender...
[16:28:26] <KatyLove> And here's a reminder of the timeline
[16:29:00] <KatyLove> May 29 – June 15: Self-nominations to join the FDC. Candidates indicate their interest through a short paragraph about themselves, and respond to an initial set of questions from the FDC staff
[16:29:00] <KatyLove> June 1 – June 30: Public question and answer from community members to candidates
[16:29:00] <KatyLove> June 24 – July 3: FDC staff in consultation with the FDC Board representatives (Bishakha Datta and Patricio Lorente) interview a sub-set of nominated candidates
[16:29:00] <KatyLove> July 3: Shortlist of candidates announced
[16:29:00] <KatyLove> July 4–10: Decision on final four FDC candidates by the Board reps in consultation with the full Board
[16:29:01] <KatyLove> July 11: Public announcement to community of the four new members
[16:29:01] <KatyLove> August: Based on the ED and Board’s decision on the FDC’s existence, orientation of the new FDC at Wikimania
[16:29:22] <Anasuya> Yes, Cristian, I agree - and there are different ways to do this, and I'm committed to making sure we have this in one form or the other :-)
[16:29:31] <KatyLove> So we have 11 days til the nominations process closes.
[16:30:49] <chandres> I definitively hope we will have outsiders able to ask the thought question :-)
[16:31:38] <chandres> do we have somewhere a description of the "job" with an estimation of the amount of work ?
[16:31:38] * Dedalus_ goodevening, trying to catch up
[16:31:44] <Maggie_Dennis> Hello, Dedalus.
[16:31:58] <KatyLove> On the nominations page, chandres, you'll see lots about the expectations and the eligibility requirements.
[16:32:18] <KatyLove> In terms of workload, CristianCantoro was saying that the work is most heavy in the proposal review time, before the deliberations.
[16:32:29] <KatyLove> April/May and again in October/November.
[16:32:41] <KatyLove> The face-to-face deliberations are 4-6 days long.
[16:32:56] <chandres> thanks, that's was my stupid question :-)
[16:32:58] <KatyLove> We have historically held one in SF, California, and the other in Europe (Milan and Frankfurt to date).
[16:33:14] <KatyLove> As my kindergarden teacher used to say, no such thing as stupid questions. :)
[16:33:25] <KatyLove> Dedalus_ --welcome!
[16:33:27] <KatyLove> Glad to see you here.
[16:34:11] <Anasuya> Lots of information on the nominations page and through this conversation, Dedalus_ Do you have any additional questions for us?
[16:35:18] <CristianCantoro> chandres: I think we can poll FDC members for an estimation of the workload (in hours) per round
[16:36:46] <GerardM-> can I ask a question on a specific grant that was denied ?
[16:37:15] <Anasuya> Welcome, harej!
[16:37:30] <harej> Thank you
[16:37:48] <Maggie_Dennis> GerardM, you can. :)
[16:37:53] <KatyLove> Sure, ask away GerardM- , hope we can answer
[16:37:55] <Anasuya> GerardM-: Sure
[16:38:28] <GerardM-> the request for economic data in Wikidata was denied because of one of its participants is Iranian.. Would it be ok to just ask for the money and leave those details out?
[16:39:02] <Dedalus_> the requested time investment of nominees is huge, why would anyone spend so much volunteer time on reading and discussing piles of paperwork, isn't that just plain boring?
[16:39:05] <GerardM-> ... he does get to events and is one of the most effective Wikimedians
[16:39:20] <GerardM-> Dedalus_ there is no balance in that
[16:39:21] <Anasuya> Unfortunately, Gerard, we're bound by the US laws because we're a 501(c)3. We can't send funds into a country embargoed by the US.
[16:39:23] <KatyLove> provacative question, Dedalus_ ! Want to answer, CristianCantoro ? What made you do it!
[16:39:33] <GerardM-> Anasuya WMF would not do that
[16:39:39] <GerardM-> it would pay the project
[16:39:45] <GerardM-> and it would do as it pleases
[16:39:48] <Anasuya> KatyLove: this was an IEG grant, not an FDC
[16:39:56] <KatyLove> Gotcha…that explains it.
[16:40:01] <GerardM-> ah
[16:40:03] <GerardM-> sorry
[16:40:05] <KatyLove> No worries!
[16:40:08] <KatyLove> All questions welcomed
[16:40:12] <KatyLove> And Anasuya works across programs
[16:40:14] <Dedalus_> GerardM-: there is an international ban on doing thing with Iran
[16:40:17] <Anasuya> GerardM-: Happy to talk about it more offline, Gerard, there are some significant legal and financial concerns involved
[16:40:49] <Anasuya> Luckily, as a public charity, we can support work in most parts of the world, just not directly in the six or seven countries currently embargoed. :-(
[16:40:59] <KatyLove> And Dedalus_ -- I'm hoping CristianCantoro can give you his perspective, on why he was interested in joining, but I can also share my thoughts on why someone may want to join the FDC.
[16:41:21] <CristianCantoro> Dedalus_: I was seeing this coming, if I would like to be provocative myself I would ask back if you are subscribed to our very numberous mailing lists ;-)
[16:41:24] <Dedalus_> Okay, my question is provocative. What I need is something to convince people in the local community that makes it worthwhile for them to be on the committee
[16:41:34] <chandres> Anasuya: is the FDC staff looking for outsiders from the bay area to join the FDC? since the beginning I'm thinking that for an APG we would need someone able to review the infrastructure of the chapter applying
[16:42:10] <Anasuya> Cristian, want to answer Dedalus_ provocative question?
[16:42:19] <KatyLove> The FDC process is an incredibly participatory and transparent grantmaking process, as you know, where the FDC members review as much information as is available ot make decisions about where movement resources go.
[16:42:33] <KatyLove> To me it is an exciting process, and a very fascinating one.
[16:42:39] <CristianCantoro> Dedalus_: but serously, the FDC application is a good accasion to see what other people in the movement are doing, it is extremely informative and plain fun if you like this kind of things
[16:42:53] <Dedalus_> Hi ChristianCantoro as a habit I'm unsubscribing from mailing lists. However, I'm trying to keep up-to-date with chapers-l and wikimedia-l
[16:43:07] <KatyLove> To have a grantmaking panel with 9 people, who are all so diverse with their experiences and backgrounds decide how they think $6 million of movement funds can be used to promote the movement's goals
[16:43:26] <KatyLove> It's a lot of responsibility, but I think also a priviledge
[16:43:36] <KatyLove> and the members of the FDC take it very seriously
[16:43:42] <KatyLove> I hope they enjoy the process--I sure do
[16:43:51] <Dedalus_> it will definitely be exciting. Couldn't that be done in a one day meeting in stead of a 4 to 6 day meeting?
[16:43:52] <CristianCantoro> also, strong +1 to KatyLove on responsability and privilege
[16:43:52] <KatyLove> It is a lot of work, you're right
[16:44:02] <Anasuya> Charles, I think there's great value in having outside expertise supporting not just the APG/FDC process but also other grants, and I've been thinking of different ways of ensuring this. One is, of course, that we have a range of expertise and experience on staff
[16:44:19] <KatyLove> While we'd love to reduce the requirements and the time commitment, the 4-6 days have turned out always to be necessary.
[16:44:23] <KatyLove> EAch proposal is reviewed several times
[16:44:27] <Anasuya> But also, having outside advisors would another way to bolster the support to the FDC and other grants programs
[16:44:29] <GerardM-> I followed the India saga ... it is indeed REALLY a drama. However, I find reading the conclusions that the drama queens have won and consequently there is less room for India. What is especially galling is that the chapter is not doing well at all
[16:44:36] <Dedalus_> So on offer is responsibility, excitement and privilege
[16:44:39] <chandres> Dedalus_: I'm part of another grant making process, and what I can say is that it is the best, if not the only way , to actually promote knowledge transfer between movement actors
[16:44:54] <KatyLove> We use a great collaborative decision-making tool to help bring about consensus within the committee.
[16:44:57] <chandres> Ans
[16:44:59] <KatyLove> All viewpoints and considered by the panel
[16:45:06] <Anasuya> We've been doing that more informally so far, but would like to do it a little more systematically going forward. So thanks for thinking about it, chandres !
[16:45:09] <KatyLove> and decisions are made jointly
[16:45:36] <KatyLove> We also make sure we have good snacks on hand. :)
[16:45:44] <Maggie_Dennis> (15 minute warning, guys. :))
[16:45:58] <KatyLove> because it is a lot of work. Most days are 9-7 or so in the meetings. Then sometimes there are working dinners.
[16:46:12] <Anasuya> Dedalus_: I'd add that it's an incredible opportunity to shape strategy for the movement, through looking at what works and what doesn't
[16:46:22] <KatyLove> I am pretty sure it can be exhausting for the members, but we all do our best to keep the conversations focused and aiming at the consensus decisions.
[16:46:32] <KatyLove> Round 1 is much more intensive with the proposal review
[16:46:34] <Dedalus_> So on offer is responsibility, excitement and privilege + snacks + knowledge transfer + shape strategy
[16:46:48] <Anasuya> Lots of snacks, Dedalus_ , lots
[16:46:49] <KatyLove> Round 2 is lighter in terms of number of proposals, so there's more of a chance to look at bigger picture issues, strategy, and proess
[16:46:49] <Anasuya>  :-)
[16:46:50] <CristianCantoro> strong +1 to Anasuya on strategy
[16:46:51] <KatyLove> *process
[16:47:21] <Dedalus_> so what about the new ED thing and APG reconsiderations?
[16:47:38] <KatyLove> reconsideration, meaning whether the process should continue (at the end of the pilot 2 years)?
[16:47:46] <chandres> Anasuya: an alternative may be to promote the "ask the expert opinion" during the community review process
[16:48:10] <KatyLove> Lila (new ED) is likely to make a recommendation to the Board about the future of the program in August (as outlined in the Framework)
[16:48:27] <KatyLove> The Advisory Group recommendations will be coming to her shortly, but as you know, overall theyr ecommended continuing it with modifications to the process.
[16:48:31] <chandres> at a meta level I think the FDC is the best thing that happens in the last years, I hope Lila will support it!
[16:48:33] * CristianCantoro _coup de theatre_ Dedalus is actually Ad Huikeshoven :P
[16:49:00] <KatyLove> That's nice to hear chandres.
[16:49:09] <KatyLove> Can we quote you on that? :)
[16:49:21] <chandres> no problem!
[16:49:24] <KatyLove> hehe
[16:49:52] <CristianCantoro> chandres: thanks :), I would say that having a little more consistency is also good in general (i.e. not changing how things work every year)
[16:49:54] <Maggie_Dennis> Dedalus, I'm not involved with the FDC as staff or volunteer, but it seems like such incredibly important work to me. :)
[16:50:23] <Maggie_Dennis> As a volunteer, i put in a ton of hours cleaning up copyright issues, not because it's fun, but because I think it matters. This divvying up donor funds to advance the mission is huge.
[16:50:38] <KatyLove> I do think it's good to caution about the work involved.
[16:50:45] <Ad_Huikeshoven> CristianCantoro: see my whois
[16:50:48] <KatyLove> It is a lot of work for volunteers for that particular time of year.
[16:51:07] <Maggie_Dennis> I'm really grateful that for whatever reason we have people putting in the work.
[16:51:09] <CristianCantoro> Ad_Huikeshoven: I was just kidding :)
[16:51:15] <KatyLove> Me too @Maggie_Dennis :)
[16:51:26] <KatyLove> We are very grateful to the committee members who take their role so seroiusly.
[16:51:26] <chandres> Ad_Huikeshoven: would be an incredibly good FDC member! :-)
[16:51:28] <Anasuya> And as we think about the future of the movement, Ad - which I know you do - this is a very critical space for having those conversations
[16:51:47] <KatyLove> I can assure you they never take any shortcuts and take their responsibility very seriously--which we all appreciate
[16:51:47] <Anasuya> Thanks for the shout out for the work, Maggie_Dennis !
[16:51:47] <Ad_Huikeshoven> so how do FDC members do that? Do day have a job, and take unpaid leave / holiday to attend FDC meeting?
[16:52:03] <KatyLove> We have a bunch of different profiles, @Ad_Huikeshoven
[16:52:14] <Anasuya> Yes, Ad - that's what they most do, from what we understand, though some are retired
[16:52:15] <KatyLove> We have some students, some retired folks, some folks with flexible schedules.
[16:52:55] <KatyLove> We also try to minimize the time they need to be together in person, as much as possible.
[16:53:08] <KatyLove> So we always schedule (historically anyway) the deliberations to be starting or ending on a weekend.
[16:53:11] <KatyLove> EG Sunday-Thursday
[16:53:18] <Ad_Huikeshoven> So on offer is responsibility, excitement and privilege + snacks + knowledge transfer + shape strategy and probably looking for students, retired folks, and folks with flexible schedule
[16:53:19] <KatyLove> Though it still requires being gone about a week
[16:53:44] <CristianCantoro> Ad_Huikeshoven: for me, yes. I have a job (I work in a research centre in Italy) and I have taken some days of leave to participate in the deliberations (which comprise the weekend, so it's a little few days of leave less)
[16:53:44] <KatyLove> I wouldn't restrict it to students, retirees and flexible scheduled people--
[16:54:13] <KatyLove> But it is true that we need people to come face-to-face for 4-5 working days twice a year.
[16:54:14] <Anasuya> Most importantly, as we said before, folks with backgrounds in finance, grants, project management, Wikimedia experience on and offline, across projects, language, regions...
[16:54:26] <KatyLove> So potential committee members do need to consider that.
[16:54:53] <KatyLove> Since we have had, over the first two years, several members based in Europe, we've held one of the deliberations in Europe each year and one in SF
[16:55:16] <KatyLove> We try to make it as comfortable and easy a process -- from a logistics point of view -- as possible
[16:55:20] <Maggie_Dennis> 5 minutes to go folks. If you have additional questions for this hour, please put them out now.
[16:55:32] <KatyLove> But it is not easy to accomodate a truly global group, of course.
[16:55:40] <KatyLove> Someone always has to travel halfway around the world.
[16:56:05] <KatyLove> Any last quesitons, provocative or otherwise?
[16:56:06] <Ad_Huikeshoven> What I'm considering is to reach out to for example the editing community of nl.wp or members of wmnl, i need a kind of story. Diversity ...
[16:56:25] <Ad_Huikeshoven> what are you looking for right now (what have you already a lot)
[16:56:28] <KatyLove> Yes, I understand Ad_Huikeshoven - and am grateful that you're reaching out
[16:56:47] <KatyLove> We want people to know what they're committing to.
[16:57:05] <KatyLove> And potential nominees can also reach out to the FDC members themselves for more perspectives
[16:57:10] <KatyLove> I imagine they would be happy to share more.
[16:57:12] <KatyLove>  :)
[16:57:47] <KatyLove> So in closing--let me just remind folks about the deadline of June 15 to nominate
[16:58:01] <KatyLove> More info at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations
[16:58:07] <Anasuya> Appreciate all the outreach, Ad - thank you
[16:58:14] <Ad_Huikeshoven> ok, thanks for the answers
[16:58:16] <KatyLove> And any questions, big or small, provocative or otherwise, can be asked to FDCsupport@wikimedia.org
[16:58:22] <Anasuya> And looking forward to brilliant nominations that make it tough on the Board!
[16:58:30] <CristianCantoro> KatyLove: sure, also as the process is intensive during the "deliberation season" (love the metaphor) it is easier for us if we are stimulated by external questions
[16:58:32] <KatyLove> Indeed!
[16:59:01] <KatyLove> to everything there is a season
[16:59:03] <KatyLove>  ;)
[16:59:14] <KatyLove> (Turn, turn, turn)
[16:59:29] <KatyLove> Alrighty, thanks so much to all who joined!
[16:59:34] <KatyLove> It was great chatting
[16:59:37] <Maggie_Dennis> Thank you, KatyLove, Anasuya and CristianCantorof for providing answers and to everyone who asked questions. Logs of this session will be posted at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours in about 15 minutes.
[16:59:48] <KatyLove> Thanks CristianCantoro for joining, and thanks Maggie_Dennis for helping with facilitating!
[16:59:54] <Maggie_Dennis> CristianCantoro. Sorry for the extra letter. :D
[17:00:08] <Anasuya> Thanks everyone
[17:00:15] <CristianCantoro> np Maggie_Dennis :), thanks everyone
[17:00:17] <KatyLove> Cheers, all. Buh-bye (as my little one says)