Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Bahrani Arabic

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Requests for new languages (Wikipedia Bahrani Arabic)

submitted verification final decision Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).

Proposal summary
Language details: Bahrani (Bahrani, abv ISO 639-3) Editing community: Szyizm (N) List your user name if you're interested in editing the wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language. Relevant pages: development wiki project External links:
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Arguments for

Bahrani Arabic has nearly 310,000 million native speakers in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq and Iran. There are many books written in Bahrani, like (الجمرات الودية) by Mulla Atiah al-Jamri. (Click here for more information) -- Szyizm 18:52, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I think you mean 310,000 native speakers, not 310,000 million. Jafeluv 09:12, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

• It has an ISO code. That makes it a language and so we should host a wiki for it. fr33kman 03:29, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I am not even sure what this "institute" means, or its mandate. Interestingly, it does not list BRITISH ENGLISH and AMERICAN ENGLISH as separate languages, despite having distinct pronunciation and spelling. On the other hand, it lists several Arabic dialects (Bahrani, desert, ...) as separate languages. Hhhhmmmm. Still . عمرو بن كلثوم 02:34, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Spelling differences do not make different languages, and the pronunciation is only slightly different compared to other languages. British and American English cannot be considered separate languages. I do not know Arabic, but I am sure there will be more difference between standard Arabic and its dialects. And see SIL International for more info about the institute. We follow their standard to decide what is a language (in the broader sense) and what isn't. SPQRobin (talk) 11:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

American is considered a separate language by many specialists and authorities. There has been a book on this and in the states many prestigious universities consider it a separate language (e.g. San Diego State University American Language institute). Just google "American language". Back to our issue here, Bahraini to Arabic is like Texas dialect to Northeastern English. عمرو بن كلثوم 13:51, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Just like spelling differences do not make different languages, so do names neither make different languages (American or English, what's in a name?). In addition, their introduction says "English language". SPQRobin (talk) 17:28, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Since there are spelling differences and Ethnologue shows that some people are embarrassed by it, then obviously it seems to be a language to me worth reviving, sounds like a situation similar to the Scots language and English in the UK.Luciferwildcat (talk) 03:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Many of those arguing against a Bahraini Arabic Wikipedia seem to be opposed to the idea of having a Wikipedia for what is being called a regional 'dialect' in addition to the overall Arabic Wikipedia. The various 'dialects' of Arabic are actually quite divergent and, depending on the definition you use, could qualify as distinct languages (in terms of not being mutually intelligible). Language use and the issue of dialect-vs-standard are very contentious in the Arab world, and unfortunately non-Arabs frequently adopt ideological positions regarding Arabic and its use without realizing. There is indeed a long tradition of writing in most of the Arabic 'dialects', including Egyptian, Levantine, Bahraini, as well as in other Gulf dialects, and it shouldn't be the job of wikipedians to decide which 'dialects' qualify for extending their written traditions to Wikipedia and which don't. Furthermore, there is already a quite active Egyptian Arabic (masry) Wikipedia. The Bahraini Wikipedia would be substantially different from masry in terms of phonology, grammar and lexicon.

Arguments against

• Oppose -- If we are going to create an individual Wikipedia for every Arabic dialect then 10% of all Wikipedias will be for the Arabic dialects. There is no a real need for this, because the Arabic dialects do not have an essential difference in grammar from the Arabic language, it is just a slight difference in the pronunciation of some words. the standard Arabic is the official language for all of gulf countries, and it is the language of eduction in these countries, in addition to the fact that the dialects of these countries differs slightly from each other. so, even if the population of these countries numbers some tens of millions, this is not an enough reason to create an individual Wikipedia for their dialects --عباد ديرانية 16:20, 28 January 2011 (UTC).

• Oppose -- Wikipedia dialects is the low level of (remarkable Wikipedia) for what it was created (the dissemination of science and knowledge free of charge).In Arabic language not in its dialects.--ترجمان05 12:43, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• Oh god no! -- I oppose all these proposals for Arabic dialects. It made no sense to create a Masry wiki. Now where getting Bahrani Nationals trying to get their wiki?! No! It's like saying we need a project for American English, or Belgian Standard Dutch. Those "languages" are just dialects, and so is Bahrani Arabic.

Insteat of making a wikipedia for every country, why dont you make a wikipedia for the whole golf region so you have more people participating and more articles>

basiclly we shoulkd start off with 4 wikpedias for middle east and north africa

1- maghribi for north african countries 1- Egyptian - is already made 2- shami levent countires 3- khaligi golf countries

and then we may extend and make for specific sub countries if they really are different to make their own language

--216.249.0.130 17:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose -- According to third eligibility criteria which states "The language must be sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a more general wiki. In most cases, this excludes regional dialects". This rule applies to the "Bahrani Arabic dialect" that could coexist on a more general wiki (Arabic Wikipedia). In fact there are a number of Bahranis users who are active or been active in the Arabic Wikipedia. In addition, the number of native speakers of this Arabic dialect is not 310,000 million speakers as claimed; the right number is only 310 thousand speaker. Another reason for opposing this proposal is the fact that there is only one enthusiastic user (who is the applier by the way) about this new project. --Osa osa 5 02:14, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose I refused this because the official language is Arabic in Bahrain. 79.112.101.152 07:09, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose -- The spoken language of Bahrain is no different from other Arabic dialects in Iraq, Arabia or Iran coastal areas. It is to Arabic like Provenςal to French. In addition, there is no written pieces in this dialect, and I doubt any contribution to such a wiki 131.104.122.149 15:43, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose of course oppose!! since when bahrani is a written language!? the official language in bahrain is Arabic, and has been since more than a thousand years! at least the most common and used language if there was nothing called an "offical language" back then, i doubt any contributions to such wiki-- bassem788Bassem788 19:49, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, of course NO!, Arabic is Official language in Bahrain, and all bahrani people understand arabic. Faris knight 01:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, of course NO!, Arabic is an Official language in Bahrain, and all bahrani people can use it simply.82.178.135.104 10:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, because the official language in bahrain is Arabic.--Mohamed ElGedawy ^Talk 15:39, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose, because the official language in bahrain is Arabic.--Sammy.aw 16:28, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Oppose -- Bahrain historically and geographically is part of the Arab World, Arabia in particular. Bahrainis speak a dialect of Arabic that is very close to the ones spoken in neighboring countries such as Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia ( Eastern Region ). They don't speak a distinct language from their neighbors and they never did, why should their dialect be introduced as a Wikipedia Language?!

• Oppose, There is no Official language called "Bahrani Arabic", actually it is an accent, not a language! and it is not a good idea to make an an individual Wikipedia for each accent.--بلال الدويك 20:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

• Arabic is Official language in Bahrain they do not need Bahrani Arabic languages . خالد الشمراني 20:36, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, I don't think that a new wikipedia for a dialect of 310,000 native speakers will be useful even for them as the offical language for bahrain is the arabic language. also, I think it will not find enough active users to continue. Statistically, after several years in wikipedia arabic (which is the offical language in bahrain) while there is more than 340 million arabic speakers, only 2200 active users in arabic wikipedia, so how many active users will be in the Bahrani Arabic wikipedia? and for how long it will continue?!!!!. أبو حمزة 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, Dialects is not a language with the controls, to set its jurisdiction to matters related to science and knowledge! --Sharaf Al Deen (Talk) 12:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, because the official language in bahrain is Arabic.Ali1 14:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose the fact is the bahrani (bahraini) is an Accent of the khaliji dialect --Σύμμαχος 09:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose No one will read bahrani Wikipedia !!, actually no need for bahraini wikipedia I didn't hear that there is a book in Bahraini --أحمد ش الشيخ 12:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose it`s part of the arabic language, and there is no thing name "Bahrain language"--Jo NaHaL 12:45, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose Besides the fact that Bahraini is just another dialect of Arabic, I doubt the presence of substantial support for such a wiki. I am not sure about the significance or nature of the book mentioned by the user suggesting this project. Is it really written in a spoken dialect? I would not even know how to write in this dialect, although I am a native Arabic speaker and fully understand the dialect. Having said this, this project will find no contributions and will fail if ever started. عمرو بن كلثوم 13:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose No significance Vibhijain 13:38, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose first of all there is no bahraini languege exisiting in the world , only there is bhraini accent , secondly if we are going in this way we should be ready to creating 100 wikipedia because every place in arabic country has accent after that every body come to say this languege , finally if its creat its be farce ali32liver 12:20, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose There is no bahraini language but a local dialect. The official language is Arabic! --Habib M'henni 02:12, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose There is nothing called Bahraini Arabic.79.112.99.31 10:35, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose There are no difference between Arabic and Bahrani , It is just accent Just Try 18:14, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• No! This is going to be a long argument. Here's the first argument: Bahrani Arabic is just another DIALECT of Standard Arabic. There are differences between American and British English, Mexican and Castillian Spanish, Belgian French and Parisian French and Austrian Standard German and German Standard German, but do we really need wikis for those dialects? No. Bahrani Arabic can be compared to let's say Moroccan Arabic and Syrian Arabic (except the accent of course). Second, there is a serious lack of interest in this project. Most Bahranis are contributing to the Standard Arabic Wikipedia. Essentially all these proposals for separate Wikipedias in Arabic dialects are useless since you can get the same content in Standard Arabic. Compare Moldovan to Romanian. Moldovan and Romanian are EXACTLY THE SAME (with the exception of a different accent and in Transnistria a different script). In the old "Moldovan" Wikipedia, the articles were the same as many old 2006 Romanian articles, but in Cyrillic. --Speedy Gonzalez 03:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
• Not very good idea. Oppose --Midnight Green 07:37, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose --U.Steele 21:30, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. I had enough with dialects getting their own Wikipedia. Remember, all English speakers are using the English Wikipedia. The Arabic Wikipedia is the Wikipedia the Bahrainis need. Supporters of this Wikipedia proposal, I suggest you should go to the Arabic Wikipedia and collaborate (not a personal attack, just a suggestion). This Arabic-language split is already about to happen. This is not the Belarusian Wikipedia community, which have two Wikis. I'm tired of this "nonsense" (again, not a personal attack, as I made the word more deceptive by using quotation marks). Hillcrest98 (talk) 02:41, 13 April 2012 (UTC)