Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Kildin Sami

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←main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Kildin Sami status page
submitted verification final decision
Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).

The language committee needs to verify the language is eligible to be approved.

  • Check that the project does not already exist (see list).
  • Obtain an ISO 639 code
  • Ensure the requested language is sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki.
  • Ensure that there are a sufficient number of native editors of that language to merit an edition in that language.
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code sjd (SIL, Ethnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Kildin Sami Language name in English
Language name Кӣллт са̄мь кӣлл Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Community
You can optionally list your user name if you're a contributor to the wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL sjd.wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org
Settings
Project name Wikipedia "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Files should be uploaded to Commons, but if you want, you can enable local file uploading.
Notes: (1) files on Commons can be used on all wikis; (2) this setting can be changed afterwards; (3) uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info); (4) localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons
Optional settings
Project logo 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit bug request (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)
Proposal summary
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.
I see, that it's hard to make a good Wikipedia on Kildin Sami, cos the population which know it, is too little (about 800 people in common). I request to give it a chance, because this test-Wikipedia has some active contributers who speak this language as native. I believe that it will be great gift for Sami people. Thanks in advance for your votes and help in the creation! Regards,--Tamara Ustinova 14:29, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Contents

Arguments in favour [edit]

  • Support per above--Tamara Ustinova 14:29, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Strong Support --Jugydmort 10:40, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. But they need real contributors. --Игорь Бродский 08:00, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. 91.79 05:58, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
  • I agree with Tamara. It will be the great encyclopedia, I'm sure.--U.Steele 14:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
  • As a founder of Incubator project I support creation of Kildin Saami Wikipedia. But you should remember that translation of MediaWiki interface is required. Как основатель проекта в Инкубаторе, я поддерживаю открытие Википедии на кильдинско-саамском. Но следует помнить, что для открытия проекта надо выполнить ряд условий, одним из которых является перевод интерфейса MediaWiki. (В целом требования изложены тут) ОйЛ (OiL) 12:03, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Translation of interface is unnecessary, as I understand.--Tamara Ustinova 13:50, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support --N KOziTalk 14:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. The speakers community is rather small, but their wilingness to contribute is more important. V. Volkov / В. Волков (kneiphof) 02:00, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. As a speaker of Northern Sámi I wish you luck!--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Garjják (talk • contribs) .
  • Support. --Insider 20:25, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support --Ontoi 12:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support--Рашат Якупов 08:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Support--Riwnodennyk 10:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Arguments against [edit]

  • none

Neutral arguments [edit]

  • none

Other discussion [edit]

The Kildin Saami Incubator was started in March 2011 (by ОйЛ?), but I do not know if and how the Kildin Saami language community was involved. I myself learned about it from a news page at Finugor and tried to activate Kildin Saami who I believe would be potentially interested in contributing. However, so far not much content has been added, except a few articles by me (P), by Ellischeller (P), by Нина шаршина (N) and recently by other Kildin Saami native speakers (listed above) during a курс/course in Lovozero. I do not know how realistic a Kildin Saami Wikipedia is at the moment, but it is possible that more Wiki-related courses and seminars for Kildin Saami will be organized in the near future. As the result, hopefully, Kildin Saami will start writing here… (see also a recent discussion here) --Michael.riessler 15:42, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

I would not myself dare to say that I believe the Kildin Saami Wikipedia is likely to take off properly - the speaker community is rather small. I would, however, very much suggest that no final decision be made here in the near future -- just being able to show this *possibility* to the speaker community aided us greatly in the seminar Michael mentioned above. It's unfortunately a rather wide-spread belief among speakers of minority languages, in Russia in particular, that their languages are not compatible with or supported by the digital sphere. Being able to say "hey, no, have a look at this!" is quite useful, and does in my opinion have a positive effect on the vitality of a language. I am sure that those working with Kildin Saami on a regular basis would appreciate having this tool at their disposal in the future as well.
I do have to express some concern about the matters Michael detailed on his personal talk page. A more detailed overview can be found there, but in essence: After registering native speakers of Kildin Saami in the Incubator in the morning at the seminar in question, we returned from our lunch break to find some of them blocked in the afternoon - a rather shocking experience for the person that first noticed this. These are not people that have been working with computers all their life or people thar are familiar with some of the harsh realities of the digitial sphere - these are, in essence, our grandmothers and grandfathers (even if they've been dead for decades).
Fortunately, the administrator that had banned them (User:Ebe123) reversed the steps he had taken instantly when I made him aware of the situation, and everything was back to normal before he started doubting Michael's reassuring words that this was just a temporary situation. But be that as it may, a ban-first-ask-later policy of this sort is a horrible one to follow in the Incubator. Any language that doesn't have its own Wikipedia yet, if a living language, is quite likely to be an endangered minority language - and not one spoken in Arizona or Switzerland. They will be spoken in rural Russia, Indonesia or Brazil - places where an Internet access in every home is not going to be a reality for many, many years. Add the factor that speakers of minority languages are often considerably older than the average Internet user, and you aren't going to have hoards of people contributing to the Incubator from their MacBook Airs whilst sitting on their couches at home. You will have people contributing from libraries, from their work places, or - like in our case - from seminars in educational institutions.
Under these circumstances, it is absolutely inevitable that IP addresses will line up from time to time. It is incomprehensible to me that this by itself is a sufficient reason to ban a user if no other suspicious actions (participation in votes or even discussions - *anything* that might be characteristic of sockpuppetry) are observed. Furthermore, I am not sure why such actions were taken by a person that does not have competencies in at least the majority language spoken in the relevant area - in this case Russian. An admin with such competencies could have asked the user in question for more information on his activities (or have at least noticed that all involved were registered under their actual full names) - Ebe123 could not do this.
So, please people, be a bit more careful with stuff like this. While nothing bad happened in this particular case, this was hardly a unique situation - and rash actions like this can make it so much harder to get new people involved in projects of this sort. It puts pretty huge obstacles in front of people like Michael and me that work with language cultivation and preservation, and it shoots Wikimedia's aims to reach as broad an audience as possible in the foot. Best regards, Marivienna 00:10, 21 November 2011 (UTC) (Jeremy Bradley, Researcher and lector at the University of Vienna, www.mari-language.com )
As Incubator admin, I'd like to say the following: This alleged "sockpuppet block" was really an uncommon situation, as users on Incubator are hardly ever blocked because of this reason. I asked Ebe123 whether it was checked if all users had the same IP (=checkuser, are you familiar with this kind of wiki slang?), and it turned out that this was not even checked, only deduced from the edit times and usernames. So I agree, this block action was overhasty, especially as there was no prior notification. Fortunately it could be clarified quite fast. --MF-W 14:53, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Suspicious actions? Edit times, usernames, wiki, and the editing was suspicious. Though it is a bit hasty. I will talk before action. It's too bad that the activity is finished, and the project is getting inactive. ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 21:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
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