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Manchu Wikipedia
| Discussion |
verification |
final decision |
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Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy). (See an unofficial analysis of this request.) |
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| Proposal summary |
Language details:
Manchu ( manǯu gisun mnc ISO 639-3)
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Users interested in forming an editing community:
Add N beside users that are native speakers, and P beside the original proposers' names.
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| Relevant pages:
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| External links:
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| Please read Meta:Language proposal policy for help using this template correctly. |
- Number of speakers: 20 to 50 Manchu, 170,000 Xibe, 132,000 Daur, estimated 1 to 1.2 million ethnic Manchu and Han people speak basic & simple Manchu language
- Locations spoken: China, Taiwan, Japan, United States
- Promoting organizations: <http://www.qiren.cn/>
- Gertraude Roth Li who wrote , Manchu: A Textbook for Reading Documents , taught Manchu at the University of Hawaii and the University of California at Berkeley.
- Jerzy Tulisow wrote (in Polish…) a small (192 pages) but complete and inexpensive Język mandżurski (« Manchu language »), coll. « Języki Azjii i Afryki » (« Languages of Asia and Africa »), Dialog, Warsaw, 2000.
Arguments in favour
- Strongly Support Among w:Tungusic languages, some of them are considered as w:Endangered language (see also the link), we need to create a wikipedian portal it will probably help in reviving those languages avoiding them to become w:Extinct language. See also the link
Manchuria and Tungusic histories and cultures are rich. A Tungusic Wikipedia, like Manchu Wikipedia, will also help the other Wikipedian in adopting a NPOV to avoid conflicts mainly between Chinese, Korean and Japanese Talk:Goguryeo and Talk:Balhae. Tungusic ethnic peoples can also have their own point of view. I adopt this position because i discovered while i was writing Goguryeo language the relationship between several languages belonging to the contested Altaic family. As said the Latin Proverb "Verba volant, scripta manent" (words fly, written stays). In addition to that
Regards. Whlee 14:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- Support However, how will do you computerize this wiki? --Yes0song 15:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- Support Just because Tungusic languages are very important in Siberia and I personally believe that the great Manchu nation is one of the most glorious Siberian nations. But some test project would be desiderable. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 23:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- Support As Japanese and amateur philologist, I am fully for your proposal. Cheers, --Aphaia 15:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- SupportWelcome to Wikipedia - it is a language with history and the Manchu is alive, for that reason it deserves its place in the Wikipedia - Numa
- Support.It's a important languague.--Ffaarr 07:55, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- Support.It is an important language to scholars interested in the history and culture of the Qing dynasty and its interactions with nieghboring nations. Abstrakt 02:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Support - Manchu is still a living language. Here is an Online Manchu forum with lessons (in Chinese). Nevertheless native speakers are required in order to bring this Test-Wikipedia to life. --Jose77 22:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- Support To make Wikipedia will help to save Manchu language since this language is historically important on East Asia. --Masoris 07:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Strong support!!: Save the Manchu language from endangerment!! Long live Manchu language!! --Edmund the King of the Woods! 19:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
- Support--Uannis 20:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
- Support--Kafkasmurat 18:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
- Support - the Manchu language is a language with rich cultural heritage in Asia and deserves it. Bogorm 10:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
- Support--Use traditional Manchu script. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 07:02, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
- Support Willy2000 14:01, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Arguments against
- Oppose until the first native speaker crops up here. --Janneman 13:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
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- That is the biggest challenge i am facing up to now, if at least a Sibe or a Manchu native speaker crops up here and correct my eventual mispelling or grammatical mistakes then we would be able to see significant improvement.Whlee 07:52, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose As long as the section "Articles in preparation" does only contain stuff like "my", "this" etc. pp., which is not suitable for an encyclopedia but rather for a dictionary (so why not proposing a Manchu Wiktionary first which I would strongly support), I don't see the neccessarity for such a project. I know that the language has been (and still is) important, but if nobody is really willing to write some articles, I have to oppose. All existing articles that I can find in the Incubator wiki are empty pages. --Thogo (talk) 14:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- According to Ethnologue there are only 80 people that speak the language. GerardM 07:02, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
- June 2008, Acheng District, Harbin, the Harbin Science and Technology Vocational College listed Manchu as a major. It is the first vocational school to teach the Manchu language as a major in China. [9]--虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 04:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose. Althought I would be very pleased to see a Manchu Wikipedia happen, I don't see the point of starting this until some people who actually use the language are available to write it.—Nat Krause 16:19, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose No, no romanlized article. Create it until it uses tradition Manchu script. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 07:02, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
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1000000% OPPOSE should be rejected --
72.68.34.5 21:08, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Indented IP !vote —Dferg (disputatio) 22:50, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
General discussion
- Support However, how will do you computerize this wiki? --Yes0song 15:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- It would take time but nothing is impossible because we will make a Main Page containing translitterated (written in Romanized/Möllendorf script) form and Manchu alphabet form.
- Have a look at :
- Tigrinya Wikipedia
- Khmer Wikipedia
- Cherokee Wikipedia
- Inuktitut Wikipedia
- Sinhalese Wikipedia
- Gothic Wikipedia
- and Cree Wikipedia.
- Then you will understand how we will work.
- Thank you for supporting Manchu Wikipedia. 고마워요 ! Whlee 14:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
How widely known and taught is Manchu? Do lots of people still learn it in universities?--Fox Mccloud 21:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
- Manchu language is taught by notorious linguist among them :
- - Gertraude Roth Li teaching Manchu at the University of Hawaii and UCLA in Berkeley
- - Aping Zhao - Heilongjiang University, Manchu Language and Culture Research Center at Harbin
- - Andrew Shimunek - Indiana University : he made a Manchu-English Online Dictionnary in 2001
- - Jerry Norman - University of Washington he aloso made a Manchu-English lexicon on manjugisun.com
- - György Kara - Indiana University : U584 Introduction to Manchu II - Department of Central Eurasian Studies
- - Alexander Vovin - University of Hawaii at Manoa
- - Giovanni STARY - University of Venice
- -Mark C. Elliott, Professor of Chinese and Inner Asian History - Faculty of the Department of East Asian Languages and Civilizations - Harvard, he provides Manchu Language Courses
- - Remin University of China
- - Warsaw University (Uniwersytet Warszawski) - Institute of Oriental Studies (INSTYTUT ORIENTALISTYCZNY) Section of Inner Asian Peoples - Programme
- Oppose As long as the section "Articles in preparation" does only contain stuff like "my", "this" etc. pp., which is not suitable for an encyclopedia but rather for a dictionary (so why not proposing a Manchu Wiktionary first which I would strongly support), I don't see the neccessarity for such a project. I know that the language has been (and still is) important, but if nobody is really willing to write some articles, I have to oppose. All existing articles that I can find in the Incubator wiki are empty pages. --Thogo (talk) 14:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- 1) About section "Articles in preparation" that section will disappear soon because i am cleaning the main page as you can see building frames categories (Mathmeatics (Tonocin), Geography (Natacin), abka shu tacin (Astrophysics), Biology (Banjirsu tacin), Litterature (s'u tacin), Music (Kumun) etc... as it was written above it is only an ALPHA version (pilote test; Wiki Incubator). You can also see the status of this Manchu version of Wikipedia. you are right those stuff will be removed and will be suitably added to Wikitionary.
- 2) empty pages: That's right most of those articles are empty excepting 5 articles and one template. See "Articles written only in Romanized Manchu language". As you can see i'm trying to learn Manchu language it is not easy but remain feasible. Be patient, perseverance has always been rewarded up to now.
Whlee 07:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
- I hope CSS will support vertical writing and this wiki will introduce automatic converter between Latin (horizontal) and Mongolian (vertical) alphabet. --Yes0song 06:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
- I'm afraid there are not enough speakers. At least can anybody out here speak this language? --Wisconsus 15:08, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Question: how compatible is the written Sibe language with written Manchu? Sibe has a lot more native speakers, but it is of much less interest to historians and language revivalists. Could Sibe people and Manchu revivalists use the same Wikipedia?—Nat Krause 16:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
- Sibo language gets a code “sjo”. Sibe people moved to Xinjiang in 1764, and is a recognized ethnic groups in PRC. They may be related to Manchu or Xianbei. See Xibe language for the difference between Xibe and Manchu language. IMHO Xibe is not an endangered language as of Manchu. --✉Hello World! 04:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
