Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Sassarese

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[edit] Sassarese Wikipedia

←main page Requests for new languages (Wikipedia Sassarese)
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Contents
Proposal summary
Language details:
Sassarese (also called Sassaresu or Turritanu, sdc ISO 639-3)
Users interested in forming an editing community:
Add N beside users that are native speakers, and P beside the original proposers' names.
Felisopus (NP), Federico Mura (N), Gaiamaddalena (N), Antofa (N), Giannib (N), Corneliae (N), mc (N),Ma gosa (N), Spanua (N).
Relevant pages:
External links:
Please read Meta:Language proposal policy for help using this template correctly.

Sassarese (local name Sassaresu or Turritanu) is a language spoken by approximately 120,000 people (in a total population of 175,000 inhabitants) in the nort-west coastal areas of Sardinia, Italy; large sassarese-speaking communities are present in Sassari, Stintino, Sorso and Porto Torres; its trasition varieties towards Gallurese, known as the castellanesi dialects, can be heard in Castelsardo, Tergu e Sedini. Sassarese emerges as an urban language of commerce in the age of Giudicati (XIII-XIV century); it is based on a mixture of different languages, namely Corsican, Pisano and Genoan; a strong Logudorese influence can be felt in its phonetics, syntax, and vocabulary, a minor influence was exercised by Catalan and Spanish. There exist many modern and older works both on and in sassarese, and a number of cultural, social and theatre events are regularly held in connection with it. Many people are interested in taking part in this project.

Original text: Il sassarese (nome locale Sassaresu o Turritanu), parlato da circa 120.000 persone (su un totale di 175,000 abitanti), nasce come lingua commerciale cittadina nel XIII-XIV secolo dalla commistione fra còrso, pisano e genovese, per poi essere notevolmente influenzato nel lessico, nella sintassi e nella fonetica dal sardo logudorese, ed in misura minore da Catalano e Spagnolo. Geograficamente è parlato in Italia nella fascia costiera nord-occidentale della Sardegna, principalmente a Sassari, Stintino, Sorso e Porto Torres, ed include i dialetti castellanesi di transizione verso il Gallurese parlati a Castelsardo, Tergu e Sedini. Esistono molteplici pubblicazioni contemporanee e storiche in e su questa lingua oltre a varie iniziative culturali, sociali e teatrali. Diverse persone sarebbero interessate a contribuire a questo progetto.

--Felisopus 06:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arguments in favour

  • Il sassarese è una minoranza linguistica riconosciuta dalla normativa regionale e nazionale. Inoltre è una lingua che vanta una sua grammatica organica, ben tre dizionari e un'ampia letteratura. Condivido pertanto la proposta di una sezione dedicata alla lingua sassarese. comment by 80.104.151.176
  • There are five native speakers who are willing to contribute to this test project. Since other Italian dialects have their own Wikipedias, Sassarese should be given the same opportunity and priviledge to have its own language edition of Wikipedia. Sassarese is spoken by 120,000 people and the language code sdc does exist. --Jose77 06:08, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Good idea, i think this will become something of wikipedia, good idea. --Hojeraop 09:25, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Clearly a native local language in its own right, and if people are willing to work on it why not?Qrc2006 17:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Arguments against

  • Sardinian Wikipedia is dying and Sardinian Wiktionary is dead, do we need a new Wikipedia with an even smaller potential user base? --Brownout(msg) 13:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Test project goes good as far as i see. --Hojeraop 09:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
    • The community of sassarese speakers is completely distinguished from the given example: the *sc wikipedia is born for combine only the sardinian logudorese and campidanese (*sro e *src) through the LSU (limba sarda unificada) and LSC (limba sarda comuna), with poor results. Original text. La base di utenti è assolutamente distinta dall'esempio portato: la wikipedia in sardo con codice *sc è nata per unire esclusivamente le varianti logudorese e campidanese (*sro e *src) con gli esperimenti di LSU (limba sarda unificada) e LSC (limba sarda comuna), che hanno avuto scarso seguito. --Felisopus Talk to me 16:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
  • This language doesn't exist--Nick1915 - all you want 00:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them. --Felisopus Talk to me 07:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] General discussion

  • Sassarese is one of the four natural languages spoken in Sardinia. Considering that on the Sardinian wikipedia we have people want to use the "unified Sardinian language" which is a created language that does not even exist as an ISO-code (the code used for the wikipedia is the collective code for the four natual languages) I don't see how come the Sassarese wikipedia should not get a chance. Of course, considering the amount of people speaking this language it will be a lot of work and it will take time until the project really can grow, but that should not be a reason to stop the project. The ISO 639-3 code is present. I will propose conditional approval for this language so that people can actively create the UI on betawiki and go ahead working on contents. GerardM 11:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
    • This language doesn't exist: sardinian is a language, sassarese is a variant of sardinian language. Sardinian is considered "official language" in Italy, sassarese is a subgroup.--Nick1915 - all you want 19:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
References:
  • ML Wagner, Sardinian Language, Bern, Francke, 1951
  • A. Sanna, Introduzione agli studi di linguistica sarda, Cagliari, Regione Autonoma Sardegna, 1957
  • M. Cortellazzo, Profilo dei dialetti italiani, Pisa, Pacini-CNR, 1982 (n.20 "Sardegna")
  • E. Blasco Ferrer, Storia linguistica della Sardegna (Beihefte zur Zeitschrift für romanische Philologie ; vol. 202), Tübingen, Niemeyer, 1984
  • E. Blasco Ferrer, Il sardo (in Lexikon der Romanistischen Linguistik, cit. II/2 pp. 239-271)
  • E. Blasco Ferrer, Handbuch der italienischen Sprachwissenschaft, Berlin : E. Schmidt, 1994
  • Lenguas minoritarias en la romania. El sardo. Estado de la cuestión, special rewiev of "Revista de filología románica", 17 (2000)
  • I. Nichita, Complexul insulei. Fizionomia lexicului sard, Bucureşti, Lumina Lex, 1998

Thanks--Nick1915 - all you want 19:53, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

It is well known that there are four languages in Sardinia and that the Limba Sarda Comune was created for the authorities to be able to use just one way of writing so that it is "equal for all". The "Common Sardinian Language" that is being used on sc.wikipedia has no official ISO 639 code - it is a language that was built out of the actual ones. Of course the languages are similar, but they are different enough to get different ISO 639 codes. Therefore Sardinia has four languages: Campidanese, Gallurese, Logudorese, Sassarese. "Sardinian" as such is considered to be a Macrolanguage. The four Sardinian languages are also recognized by UNESCO as endangered languages: http://www.helsinki.fi/%7Etasalmin/europe_report.html#GSardinian . Of course the unification of the four languages to simplify the task of authorities to write just one language instead of having to translate also in the other three does not help the four natual languages. Remember that with each dying language a whole wealth of culture dies. --Sabine 20:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Still any scientific paper and any argumentation that goes further than the pure expression of the thesis "Sardininan is a language" are missing, without considering which would then be Sardinian ([1] Logudorese, Nuorese, Aborense, Campidanese...?), "Sassarese is a variant of the Sardinian language" some more arguments and/or reasons: there is no linguistic analysis that does not recognise the italo-romance origin of the Sassarese language (otherwise this would "proof" that Corsican, Gallurese and Tuscan are variation of Sardinian!). "Sardinian is considered official language in Italy, Sassarese is a subgroup" is simply wrong. The Region of Sardinia distinguishes in its law (art. 2, paragraph 4, Regional Law from 15 Oct 1997 of the "Autonomous Region of Sardegna" about the "Promotion and valorization of the culture and language of Sardinia": "The same value attributed to the Sardinian culture and language is recongnised referring to the relative territory, to the culture and Catalan language of Alghero, the Tabarchino of the islands of Sulcis, the Sassarese and Gallurese dialect" [2] [3]) and in its presentations: here, the second link is given just as material and was not consulted, it is clearly stated that "Sardinian is not the only linguistic reality on the territory of the island". The list of documents (in Romanian??) is completely useless unless the author does not cite or analyze what these books should demonstrate. Just to take one example, the first author in "The problem of the geographical region to be attributed to Gallurese and Sassarese in "Neolatin Culture 3 (1943), pages 243-267;" wrote: "a dialect of the people which, following all evidences was formed step by step starting from the XVI century, after the period in which various deadly pestilences decimated the population of the city; most of the surviving people were of Pisan and Corsican origin, also quite a good number of Genovese people was part of the population. In this way the hybrid dialect that nowadays is being spoken in Sassari, Porto Torres and Sorso came into being. Its basis is a corrupt Tuscan with Genovese traces and quite some Sardinian terms"; the exact contrary of this thesis. This is the latest officual document about the LSC (Common Sardinian Language) of the Region of Sardinia: this imaginary "sassarese subgroup" doesn't exist, it is "strangely" not included and in the documents you find the repetition of the following (just to make sure if somebody was in need for it) "clarification is needed that a part from the Sardinian language (sa limba in Sardinian) there are other existing languages or ideoms in Sardinia which are the Catalan language of Alghero, Tarbachino, Sassarese and Gallurese".
In Italian Continuano a mancare qualsiasi trattazione e qualsiasi argomentazione che vada oltre la mera espressione della tesi; sardinian is a language senza dire quale sarebbe il sardo ([4] logudorese, nuorese, aborense, campidanese...?), sassarese is a variant of sardinian language senza nessuna ulteriore argomentazione: non esiste analisi linguistica che non riconosca l'origine italoromanza del sassarese (altrimenti anche corso, gallurese e toscano sarebbero varianti del sardo!). Sardinian is considered "official language" in Italy, sassarese is a subgroup è semplicemente falso. La Regione Sardegna distingue sia nelle legge (Art. 2 comma 4, L.R. 15-10-1997 della Regione Autonoma della Sardegna, sulla Promozione e valorizzazione della cultura e della lingua della Sardegna: "La medesima valenza attribuita alla cultura ed alla lingua sarda è riconosciuta con riferimento al territorio interessato, alla cultura ed alla lingua catalana di Alghero, al tabarchino delle isole del Sulcis, al dialetto sassarese e a quello gallurese" [5] [6]) e sia nelle presentazioni: qui, secondo link fornito come materiale e non consultato, c'è scritto molto chiaramente Il sardo non è l'unica realtà linguistica nel territorio isolano. La lista di testi (in rumeno??) è perfettamente inutile finché l'autore non si metta la pena di citare o analizzare cosa dovrebbero dimostrare questi libri. Tanto per fare un esempio, il primo autore in "La questione del posto da assegnare al gallurese e al sassarese, in «Cultura Neolatina» 3 (1943), pp. 243-267;" ha scritto a scanso di equivoci: "un dialetto plebeo che, secondo tutti gli indizi, si stava formando a poco a poco a partire dal sec. XVI, dopo che varie pestilenze mortalissime avevano decimato la popolazione della città; dei superstiti la massima parte era di origine pisana e còrsa, e non mancavano neanche i genovesi. Così nacque quel dialetto ibrido che oggi si parla a Sassari, a Porto Torres ed a Sorso, la cui base è un toscano corrotto con qualche traccia genovese, e con non pochi vocaboli sardi"; il contrario esatto di questa tesi. Questo è l'ultimo documento ufficiale sulla LSC della Regione Sardegna: questo immaginario "sottogruppo sassarese" non esiste, non è "stranamente" incluso ed è ripetuto (caso mai ce ne fosse stato bisogno) " bisogna chiarire che a parte sa limba propriamente detta esistono in Sardegna altre lingue o idiomi che sono il catalano di Alghero, il tabarchino, il sassarese e il gallurese" e "Il risultato è stato che esiste una grande distanza tra i dialetti appartenenti al sistema sardo e quelli del catalano, sassarese, gallurese e tabarchino.". --Felisopus Talk to me 10:41, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verification observations

The localisation effort is great. What is missing is continued work on the project. With at least one more month of editing it would be considered for a project. Thanks, GerardM 06:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Localisation update

  • Currently 97.30% of the most used MediaWiki messages have been localised. Localisation of these messages is a requirement before your request is finally assessed. This is the recent localisation activity for your language. Thanks, GerardM 12:44, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
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