South Azerbaijani Wikipedia
||Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).
South Azerbaijan has changed and South Azerbaijan people cannot participate in azerbaijani wikipedia.
Arguments in favour
- Support We want to have southazerbaijan wikipedia.--Southazerbaijan 20:06, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- SupportThis is a language The prolocutor With vast ،There was to the language(azb) 12000 Article ,and show_language.asp?code=azb and ,ethno_docs/introduction.asp#iso_code. E THP (talk) 14:09, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Support --Elph (talk) 14:35, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Support قاسم منصور (talk) 21:15, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
- Support Tilimxanli (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Support -- Supermæn (talk) 13:34, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
- Support--Baskervill 09:50, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
- Supportمحک (talk) 10:36, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
- SupportAmir a57 (talk) 07:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hello Dear Turkish part of the Turkish branch of that unfortunately there is no Turkish language Wikipedia And for the Wikipedia could be used all the Turkic-speaking Iranian Enabled for both of the Qashqai happily Azerbaijanis among the most active wiki wiki experiment So far more than 1000 articlesAmir a57 (talk) 17:46, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 08:38, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
- Arabic part users (in Azwiki) live in South Azerbaijan and used arabic script for writen. We are willing to open own Wikipedia for many of the issues ( 20072008 2009 2011 2012 & az:İstifadəçi müzakirəsi:Mehrdad/arxiv02& az:Vikipediya:Səsvermə/Bir viki iki əlifba) We wrote about them in Requests for comment/User:Sortilegus@az.wikipedia and Language committee talk page. Unfortunately we were unable to resolve the problem. We now want to provide the opportunity for us to work on our own Wikipedia.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 11:00, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support .Aht 61 (talk) 17:39, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support Native speakers of South Azerbaijani have the competency and willingness to contribute to this project in the long-term. It is spoken in 9 countries. The vocabulary differences between South Azerbaijani and North Azerbaijani can be seen here. --Jose77 (talk) 07:48, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support I was against this before, but now I support it. Iranian Azerbaijanis usually cannot read and write in latin script and the current Azerbaijani wikipedia is practically useless to them. We can implement Automatic Translation to arabic script in Azerbaijani wikipedia (I'm working on it), but it just enables them to read and the ability to write and contirbute is still missing. Also opening separate wikis for different scripts in other languages, is done before. Like Kurdish wikipedia in two scripts and Persian and Tajik wikipedias (which is the same language in two scripts). Our south Azerbaijani language also has its ISO 639 code as an independent language, so it can have its own Wikipedia. موسا (talk) 01:01, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support --Tadiranscopus (talk) 12:58, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- SupportElvinurmu (talk) 14:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support--Caracas (talk) 17:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support That a mixture of Persian and Azerbaijani language. A language different from the language of Azerbaijan Erlik.khan (talk) 18:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support--Erdemaslancan (talk) 21:01, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support--Urment (talk) 14:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
- Support-- In my opinion, Iranian Turks constitute a population of millions and it would be more convenient, particularly, for the people of Southern Azerbaijan to navigate Wikipedia in a context of Arabic Turkish (AZB) writing system because of their familiarity with the characters and codes --خزراوغلی (talk) 16:55, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Support-- Azerbaijani language is not exactly Turkish language. It is a branch of Turkish. The name of Azerbaijani language is Azərbaycan türkcəsi. 30 million of iranian people are communicating with this language. Owning of mother language is a minimum of human rights. Aztap (talk) 18:25, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
- SupportAzerbaijani people speak a Turkic Azeri language-speaking country such as Azerbaijan, which is different from the Arabic alphabet to write-اوزون حسن آق قویونلو (talk) 15:27, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
- Support--Arjanizary I'm in favor of creating the South Azerbaijani language because of:
- The people who said the Azerbaijani language that is used now and it's enough for both Southern and Northern Azerbaijani, should know that the wiki is going to delete the Arabic script based pages. Also if we had it for both Latin and Arabic scripts, we should have each page in two script. So the pages will double.
- The other reason is that nowadays in South Azerbaijan Arabic script is mostly used. For example, in University of Tabriz, Arabic-based Azerbaijani language is taught. The poetries, for example Shahriar's, Karimi Maraghei and new poets poems, are written in Arabic-based Azerbaijani language. Arabic-based is more familiar than Latin-based because of Arabic language(Qur'an and Islam language) and Persian language(Iran National language).
- Another is that we have Egyptian Wiki,simultaneously ,Arabic wikipedia with same alphabet. Not only Kurdish Wiki isn't in both Latin and Arabic based wiki, but also it has Surani wiki. Add also Mazaruni, Gilaki, etc that is from Persian language but with separated wiki.
- Also North Azeri is mostly affected by Russian and English than any other languages, but South Azeri is mostly affected by Arabic and Persian than any other languages. For example the term kartof(potato) is Russian that used in everyday life of Northerners but Most Southerners don't know that word even if it's common word in everyday life. Southerners use the term یئر آلما that is turkic(The word didn't entered in South Azeri). Arjanizary (talk) 10:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
- Support--Asparux Xan Bulqar (talk) 20:40, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
- Note: About Opposers' arguments
- We can categorized the opposers into these groups:
- 1. The Azerbaijani Wiki was written in both Arabic and Latin script, so we don't need to split it into two wikis. They(both Southerners and Northerners) understand both alphabet. We don't have another example of this. Iran Azerbaijanis understanf Farsi, so we don't need it.
- Supporters: TimBits, [[User:GerardM|GerardM],Htgns, Turk oğlan, Grandmaster, Parishan, Чръный человек, PPerviz, Companionship, and Cuman
- Answer: If Southern and Northern Azerbaijani is the same and we don't need another wiki, so why we have Egyptian Wiki when we have Arabic one. Both of them written in Arabic alphabet and both of them are Arabic. Why we have Bashkir, Turkmen, Uzbek, Kyrkiz, Azerbaijani wikis when we have Turkish one.
- 2. Without Reason, Just Oppose. All of them are Turkic languge. A little difference in pronunciation. For example numbers in Turkish and Azerbaijani. Bir(=one), iki(=two) ,üç(=three) dört(dörd)(=four) ,beş(=five) ,altı(=six) ,yedi(yeddi)(=seven) ,sekiz(səkkiz)(=eight) ,dokuz(doqquz)(=nine) ,on(=ten). So we see that only difference is that in Turkish doubled letters not allowed. K in Turkish changed to Q in Azerbaijani. Ə in Azerbaijani changed to E in Turkish, and so on. Also Turkey and Azerbaijan separated by political reasons (USSR previously captured the Azerbaijan), and having both Turkish and Azerbaijani (also the others that mentioned above) are wrong! The French and English are very near language. So what? You should live in tjis area to know that most Iran Azerbaijanis don't know to understand latin alphabet. Please think about other aspects of this.
- Supporters: Sortilegus, Reality006, Sortilegus, Iroony, Verman1,
Arslanteginghazi, Irada, KiViki, and Nazoki
- Answer: I recommend that they provide reasons.
- 3.Now, not an opposer.
Supporters: Erdemaslancan, Cekli829 ,and Ebrahimi-amir
- Answer: Nothing. Because they're not opposers now.
- The reason that written at first of this page shows everything:South Azerbaijan has changed and South Azerbaijan people cannot participate in azerbaijani wikipedia. So if we have to have both south and north Azerbaijani in one wiki, all pages should be in both scripts.
- I want language committee to prove and accept South Azerbaijani as soon as possible to let who know this language can have information about his/her language, communicate with others and at last I don't think it's out of Wiki's goals.
- Arjanizary (talk) 13:56, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
- Support AzbVikinin açılmasına etiraz etmirəm. Hesab edirəm ki, bu məsələ artıq zəruri bir tələbə çevrilmişdir. --►Safir yüzüklü Ceklimesaj 10:17, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
- Support Azerbaijani Turks are the second largest ethnic group in the Iran and not have an independent wiki; While smaller ethnic groups in this country have it! --Elmju (talk) 13:58, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support Changed my opinion . After a discussion with User:موسا , now I believe the matter of variations in writing is not a great problem at all . My problem in that Wiki was not because of language problems at all : that was only an excuse for blocking me .--Alborz Fallah (talk) 20:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- Support As per above opinions. People in that region use Arabic script and Latin script is not comprehensible to many. As Tojiki wikipedia exists alongside Farsi wikipedia, there is a need for those in Iranian Azerbaijan to have a wikipedia in their language and alphabet. Their number is huge and thereby necessitates such an initiative. It is ridiculous to have two articles in one wiki for the same topic, each in an alphabet. Sicaspi (talk) 01:01, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- Strongly Support, it's not about sharing the language (Wikipedia have even Simple English section), it's about separating the different scripts. It's not good when we see in one Project articles on Cyrillic, Latin and Arabic scripts. Especially Arabic.--Soul Train (talk) 06:33, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- Support As as Iranian from Persian background, I can't think of any reason why there should not be a wiki for Iranian Azerbaijanis. Good luck! -Darwin machine (talk) 03:42, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- Support I am suport Wikipedia South Azerbaijani Because According to this source, 15,500,000 in Iran (2010) and Please Population Iranian Azerabijani see Azerbaijani people. Samaksasanian 18:34, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose This proposal does not conform to the Language proposal policy and a similar request has been rejected before. Currently wikipedia in Azerbaijani language is functioning and both written forms are being used. --TimBits 00:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- The rejection was prior to the start of the language committee. When South Azerbaijani is indeeed sufficiently different, it should be accepted. When you state that "both written forms" are used, it does not make clear that you are indeed talking about South Azerbaijani. Thanks, GerardM 12:53, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
- South Azerbaijani refers to Azerbaijani language written in Perso-Arabic script, as it is used in Iran. Languages written with multiple scripts are incorporated under one project, according to the above sited policy and it has been done in the current Azerbaijani language wikipedia. In fact, the previous request has not been rejected, it was cancelled. But it wouldn't be allowed in the first place, if the policy was in affect when the request was made, which applies to the current request too. --TimBits 06:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- The split of Azerbaijani in parts is not in two but in five. Consequently it is not only but also about South Azerbaijani. Would you consider these other three also part of the az domain ? Thanks, GerardM 12:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- That's the way ethnologue prefers to divide. But linguistics is not an exact scince. There may be certain justifications for such division, I don't know, but there are several shortcomings too. For example these are treated as five equal varities of one language. In fact other three exist because of geographical reasons, speakers of these varieties are geographically separated from the main body of Azerbaijani speakers. But North Azerbaijani and South Azerbaijani are not separated as such and there is a gradual shift in dialect. Both have subdialects and one can compare two particular dialects, but it is impossible to compare North Azerbaijani as whole to South Azerbaijani. Dialects that are across the border are closer to each other than they are to other dialects within their side. Therefore, there is only one feature that can be objectively applied to these varities as a whole and that is one uses Arabic based script, while the other uses Latin based one. --TimBits 02:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
- From what I understand of South Azeri a new Wikipedia isn't needed. Is it possible however to implement automatic conversion? Like is done on kk: and tg:?--Htgns 21:18, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
- It is simply idiotism - Latin, Arabic scripts, and also don't forget that those Azerbaijani people who live in Dagestan, mostly using Cyrillic script. And then what? Doing 3 scripts in one project?--Soul Train (talk) 08:39, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose i'm from southern azerbaijan and aktiv user in Azerbaijan wikipedia's. south and north azerbaijanies are equal.My page in azwiki.People of the South understand the both alphabet.in the azerbaijan wikipedia is used both alfabet.--Turk oğlan 22:17, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose i'm from southern azerbaijan and activ user in Azerbaijan wikipedia's. south and north azerbaijanies are equal. My page in azwiki.--Axan.bulut 11:15, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose--Sortilegus 14:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose It is one and the same language, why do we need 2 wikis for the same language? Grandmaster 19:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose We have the Kurdish Wikipedia functioning in Roman and Arabic scripts, we have the Tajik Wikipedia functioning in Cyrillic and Roman scripts, why can't the Azerbaijani Wikipedia function in Roman and Arabic scripts too? The script is the only substantial difference between varieties of Azerbaijani spoken in the Caucasus and Iran. Parishan 02:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
- oppose--Reality006 23:25, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose...where is south azerbaijan?!?you mean iranian azerbaijan?--Iroony 16:08, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
- OpposeSouth Azerbaijani is a part of Azerbaijani language. Why do we need 2 wikis for the same language?...iranian azerbaijan is south azerbaijan --Cuman 15:48, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose-- Based on what Language subcommittee said for Montenegrin language: "Wikis should not be split along political lines. And Wikimedia Foundation's goal is giving every single person free, unbiased access to the sum of all human knowledge, and not information from individual political communities." The two dialects of Azeri only have little difference in vocabulary but they are one language therefore the language policy allows for only one Wikipedia for a language--Companionship 07:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- oppose. I see no reason to create second azerbaidjanian wikipedia when existing wiki is poor quality. ~ Чръный человек 12:23, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose I see nothing wrong with az:wiki to warrant a split Wikipedia like this, nor do I see much of a difference in language. :| TelCoNaSpVe :| 19:51, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
oppose --Cekli829 07:12, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
oppose Please attantion to  and  --Ebrahimi-amir 05:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
oppose --N KOziTalk 06:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
- oppose --U.Steele 19:51, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose Most of Iranian Azarbayjani people can speak persian (Farsi), it's not necessary. --Faramarzreply 10:23, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
- And a great number of Iranian know English, so we don't even need Persian wikipedia! --Arjanizary (talk) 14:16, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- oppose--Verman1 12:40, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose I'm from South Azerbaijan, and I think that all Turkic languages like Azerbaijani and Turkish are the same; so let alone Azerbaijani! Wikipedia must be able to convert the both scripts of Azerbaijani Turkic to each other. For instant you can use the solution of site like kocurge.com or software as AzConvert in wikipedia. --KiViki 07:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose --Irada 11:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose--Arslanteginghazi 05:23, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
- Strongly oppose It's same language. Second wiki for Azerbaijani language is unnecessary.--PPerviz 12:56, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
- Answered above also under درفش کاویانی's claim. --Arjanizary (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Oppose--Erdemaslancan 12:50, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Oppose. There is no empirical evidence of Iranian Azeri being substantially different from Caucasus Azeri, other than the writing system. The current Azerbaijani Wikipedia has a big number of articles rendered in the Arabic script for which links are provided in respective Latin-script articles, and I personally believe this was the best way to integrate both forms. Unless it is proven that the literary standard differs for them, there is no point having this project. Parishan (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Oppose I see no reason to create second azerbaidjanian wikipedia when existing wiki is poor quality. Darafsh Kaviyani (Talk) 11:57, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Assume good faith :-) Darafsh Kaviyani (Talk) 06:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think labeling other wiki's doesn't seems cool. We also have Egyptian Wiki that is only a spoken version of Arabic language. Also we have many Kurdish wiki's. (See here for more info. --Arjanizary (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Oppose This is not an official language and is a local language that have not specific rules and one of the results of this wiki's creat is disputes among its users. --Elmju (talk) 10:46, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
- Being an official language isn't a parameter to be a real wiki. For example Mazandarani, Gilaki and other wiki's in Iran aren't official language, aren't they? --Arjanizary (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Oppose My opposition has practical examples : this spoken language does not have an established way of writing and present protocol of script does not cover an acceptable percent of the people who speak in this language .I'm from Iranian Azerbaijan ( synonymous with so called South Azerbaijan ) and I did my best to contribute in this test wiki, the result was administrators of this wiki asked me not to participate because I can't write down in this language . Because of this problem they also blocked me and only after intervention of upper administrators they unblocked me but still preparing to block me again . The local variant that they use , is a modified version of Urmia supplemented with Turkish of Turkey : It is not a real and genuine script.--Alborz Fallah (talk) 17:40, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
- South Azerbaijani has it's own grammar. His dictation and writing in standard South Azerbaijani is weak (en:orthography). His all contributions is at talk pages. He also changed a article name without any discussion at his first step to contribute az Wp/azb test wiki. His block is wrong and he was unblocked only 2 hours. For other info about the grammar in South Azerbaijani see Wp/azb main page or ask me. --Arjanizary (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- Can you please show us the consensus about standard South Azerbaijani ?! As I know , only a group of ultra nationalist writers in a single magazine ( Warliq ) recently adopted a protocol for writing the spoken Azerbaijani : there has been no consensus about their opinion and that group's opinion was heavily under the influence of pro-Turkish writers that insist the Azeri and Turkish are dialects of one language . Anyway , my previous block in Wp/azb was because I was pointing the fact that the script of the word Azerbaijan is the common old familiar form used in the old sources , but the administrative group of Wp/azb keeps to block and mock me because they think their new way of writing down the language is correct . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 17:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose Where is South Azerbaijan? Is that a place or a location or any special language which I never heard before!?Kamix (talk) 01:30, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- South Azerbaijani is mentioned at Ethnologue and Sil websites. It's local name is 'تورکجه' that mentioned at request.
- Comment First I should say that South Azerbaijani language is a literary language. You can see a number of books written in the language here. A number of writers have written in this language are trying to become a member of PEN International http://pensouthazerbaijan.info/ . Also seminars to develop the language is formed. Wikipedia editors based on the latest decisions of the organization's work . Operators of these seminars are the best known writers of South Azerbaijan .
- Second, those who claim that this language does not deserve a separate Wikipedia? And why? They were trying to disrupt the work of Wp/azb. But when it failed to come up here to try another way.I've already informed about this group . They are people who are looking for Azerbaijanian Turkish deleted. Because they think it is a racist demands:
- "Sometimes we hear some dire things from Azerbaijan that shows the influence of Pan-Turkism ideas. Some people say that the lessons should be taught in Turkish language in Schools of Azerbaijan region. This shows the spreading of racist thoughts. Don't these people ask from themselves that in which multi-ethnical country, teaching in states are done in local language? That Iran should be the second?" en:Pirouz Mojtahedzadeh, Ettelaat newspaper, 1377/10/22, No. 22106
- You can get more information from the link that is on top. I hope I could clearly give information about recent disagreements. Thanks a lot.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 21:58, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- Comment on Comment , As the above two paragraph tends to be an answer for my question of consensus about standard South Azerbaijani, I want to repeat basic questions of : where is consensus ? Who says one single seminar of Dr hayat et al is the ultimate solution of orthography ? How many of that books that you mentioned to be written in South Azerbaijani , is written by that seminar recommendations ? The second part of your comment do shows that you are looking to Wikipedia as a soup box : can't you see it is simple and clear incoherency? --Alborz Fallah (talk) 22:39, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- Comment I have two questions: 1- Some opponents say:"where is south azerbaijan?" If you do not know where South Azerbaijan so why write about this idea? 2- Can you show consensus about Farsi or Mazandarani and.... language spelling that is written with the Arabic alphabet? If you believe this I will give several examples for the violation.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 05:12, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
- Comment Dear Alborz;
- You even can not speak in Azerbaijani language. What is the reason you are arguing about something which it is not familiar to you?
- Please dear Alborz, do not bother people. You can do your "Anti Azerbaijan" activities inside the your country, not in Wikipedia.
- Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia. I just tried to waching your User talk history on Wikipedia. Does not matter in which language (Persian, English or Azerbaijani). All of your activities are just and just an ANTI AZERBAIJAN political activity!
- Maybe this is a "Persian vandalism" activity in Wikipedia which that is a part of Iranian cyber army's job.
- Anyway, this is my pesonal idea about you. I have more reasons for that. Because your Wikipedia activities is not jus about Azerbaijan. You are doing that about other nationalities in Iran. Like Iranian Arabs or Iranian Kurds. Aztap (talk) 20:17, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
- We are talking about the reasons to add a new language : not about me . This is not a forum.--Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:51, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- Discrepancies must be reasonable not based on a hostile thoughts. You write "consensus about standard South Azerbaijani" while you use a Farsi (Persian) and you aware of the characteristics of the Arabic alphabet. For example, there are 8 type of spelling the word "Azerbaijanis" (excluding dialects) in the Persian language (Minimum):
- "آزربایجانیها" 
- "آزربایجانی ها" 
- " آزربایجانیها" 
- "آزربایجانیان" 
- "آذربایجانیها" 
- "آذربایجانی ها" 
- "آذربایجانیها" 
- "آذربایجانیان" 
- If we increase the difference between "ي" and "ی", we will be faced with 16 different spelling of a word in Farsi language!--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 11:02, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- Comment for the admin:I think the admins can consider above section to be hidden by collapse text template : mybe it is too long and maybe it is kind of irrelevent ...--Alborz Fallah (talk) 12:08, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
- This discussion is very useful for others. Any disagreement or agreement must be reasonable.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 06:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose --E-citizen (talk) 11:21, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose--Orxan Zakir (talk) 17:52, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose. Əlifba fərqli olsa da, dil eynidir.--A.Zakirqızı (talk) 17:55, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
- Currently 100% of the most used MediaWiki messages have been localised. Localisation of these messages is a requirement before your request is finally assessed. This is the recent localisation activity for your language. Arjanizary (talk) 19:44, 16 November 2012 (UTC)