Talk:Global rollback

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Contents 1 Scope of policy 2 Parallel draft 3 Throttle 4 Reanimating? 5 Make into a policy 6 Rights, throttle 6.1 suppressredirect 7 Local policy 8 Project opt out? 9 "Active" 10 Inactivity? 11 Proposal to add the "skipcaptcha" right 12 Granting 13 Move right 14 tboverride and uboverride 15 markbotedits

[edit] Scope of policy

Note: as the scope of this policy is the enabling of a user right which basically expedites a process (edit reversion, rather than actually creating an entirely new ability, primarily for use by the Small Wiki Monitoring Team, it only seriously affects the Meta community, of which the SWMT is a part. Any consensus should be developed among the Meta community. Cary Bass ^demandez 20:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Because you say that this will be kept entirely with the SWMT, why don't we just name the right "SWMT"? That way if we need to in the future, we can easily change the rights associated with the group without changing the name. It also formally associates it with SWMT, like you suggest here. Cbrown1023 talk 00:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, its one of those rights that everyone doesn't need and renaming it to SWMT will just make people join SWMT with no intention of helping out and only to get the Global right, we are not trying to create a cabal, this right is a bit like Checkuser, not everybody needs it. SUL helps a lot with Global rights and the SWMT is just a start and maybe in a couple of months, this will change and the rights will be given out to more people, but because most communities have their own policy on different rights, we cannot force it on them, and thus its better that it stays with a small group of people first in its initial stages before the foundation determines that it be given out to more people :) ...--Cometstyles 01:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

They Both seem like good ideas but I have to agree with Comets, we don't want to appear like a cabal and having "Global rollback" as the group name would be a bit more neutral. It also clearly describes the right being given. --Az1568 01:18, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Whatever else this would be very useful for dealing with cross wiki spamming too. It is something I would appreciate in the toolbox. Thanks --Herby ^{talk thyme} 08:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Assigning the right according to need does make more sense than giving it to a class of users. I think it should be emphasised that the right must be used to revert vandalism or spam and that using it for other purposes (e.g. in a content dispute) on any wiki would be seen as a serious abuse of the right which would likely result in it being revoked. Also, presumably those will global rollback would be bound to follow any local policies about rollback use that the wiki in question may have? Not that I can think of any likely ones apart from "just use to revert vandalism/spam"... WjBscribe 08:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Parallel draft

Please note the kind of parallel draft Anti-vandal fighter. --Thogo (talk) 08:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Throttle

Is the global rollback right subject to a maximum number of uses in a given time period (like that individually assignable on enwiki) or does it function like the rollback ability included in the sysop permission? WjBscribe 08:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

There is a global throttle of 100/min IIRC. But it should be possible to configure that per-wiki. I think en.wb had the throttle removed entirely for a time (until the default throttle was upped to 100/min). That throttle would count rollbacks on a single wiki - not global.  – Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 11:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reanimating?

What about reanimating this proposal? Global sysops is very likely to fail and global rollback is a tool with very low abuse potential (*everyone* can do it, it just takes longer manually), but useful (timesaving) for the SWMT. --MF-W 14:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Make into a policy

I talked with some of the stewards and a staff member and they agree that this proposal is worth re-looking into and Global rollback to be introduced as soon as possible and unlike Global sysops, it will not have features which will effect bigger wikis so its not really worth discussing the impact it will have on those wikis because it will virtually have none, there has been a recent rise in vandalism levels in small wikis and since Global sysops proposal has failed sadly, this may be the only option to counter cross-wiki vandals and spambots since the only permission associated with this will be "rollback" and nothing else and if implemented, it will be given to SWMT members as that's what it was actually meant for and maybe slowly within months be introduced to all communities and they can make their own policies on that, and it will probably be nice if this happened before the end of this month...--Cometstyles 03:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Agree. Although it may require a little more insight from the reverters / rollbackers, it is a feature that is worth implementing. Wojciech Pędzich Talk 10:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes i do agree with comet and i think it will help Cross-wiki vandal fighters.--Mardetanha ^talk 10:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. All active(!) SWMT members should have that. (I'm not yet sure if we should make it as a condition that people must have sysop rights (by election) on at least one WM project.) --Thogo (talk) 10:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes your above mentioned point is really Good and care able i think it could one the requirements ,though i think most of SWMT members are wiki wide admins --Mardetanha ^talk 10:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh no, I don't think this needs members to be elected and no unlike Global sysops, being a sysop somewhere is not going to be a criteria, since the only criteria for now is being an "active" member of the SWMT..thats all :) ...--Cometstyles 10:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

It would be about time :S --birdy geimfyglið _(:> )=| ∇ 13:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• Agreed with Cometstyles. Yann 11:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, we have stewards support and since this feature has already been tested by a couple of meta regulars months ago, its time to roll the ball..I wonder which steward wants to start this "SWMT" or global group? :)..--Cometstyles 11:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok this seems to have been another failed proposal, since no Steward wants to implement it..thanks..--Cometstyles 03:58, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Seriously? We have consensus and no steward is going to implement it?  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 04:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It's implemented. Please file requests at Steward requests/Permissions. —{admin} Pathoschild 04:56:24, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rights, throttle

Currently this group has the rollback and markbotedits rights. We were musing about adding:

• noratelimit, which allows you to rollback as fast as you want - for prolific folk like us that will remove a major impediment
• autoconfirmed, so we are always autoconfirmed when normally we wouldn't be (for those who don't already have old accounts on all >730 wikis)
• autopatrol, so RC patrollers don't need to patrol our edits

 — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 00:23, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

• Makes sense to me. Thanks --Herby ^{talk thyme} 07:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
• As per discussion on IRC, the first 2 are a priority and no it will not affect the bigger wikis in anyway so I don't see any problem really ..--Cometstyles 11:55, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
• Makes sense — vvv 12:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
• Seems like a good idea. —Giggy 12:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• • Added "noratelimit", because it does not make much sense to have rollback and not being able to rollback ;) best regards, --birdy geimfyglið _(:> )=| ∇ 12:33, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
• It seems sensible that these extra functions be rolled in. Looking at these proposed additions, it makes me almost question whether "Global rollbacker" is indeed the best name for this user class... --Anonymous Dissident^Talk 12:46, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
  • yeah Global rollbacker is a bit too original, its for those with global accounts, so why repeat Global twice ;)..apart from that and the ambiguity in your comment, I would like to remind you about Global sysops proposal which probably failed because of the name :) ...--Cometstyles 12:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• • Added "autoconfirmed", because swmt members could not revert vandalism on semiprotected pages where they had not yet been autoconfirmed. --birdy geimfyglið _(:> )=| ∇ 15:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• Well done --Fabexplosive The archive man 16:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] suppressredirect

The suppressredirect right was added to the UI, but currently isn't assigned to anyone (awaiting bugzilla:14998). Global rollbackers, being vandal fighters who may often be reverting pagemove vandalism could revert those without creating bad redirects. Please add the suppressredirect right to the global rollback group.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 01:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Per Mike Baywatch, seems like a good idea once approved by the sysadmins..--Cometstyles 01:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Meh, those fat boys have already done it :( ..--Cometstyles 02:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The bug is a request to add it local user groups (sysops & rollbackers) - this request was to add it to a global group (global rollbackers). Someone may wish to add it to stewards too.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 02:17, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. —{admin} Pathoschild 01:59:28, 06 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Local policy

English WP is working up a local policy based off of this at en:Wikipedia:Global_rights_usage#Global_rollbacker, any advice or inclusion in this policy would be welcome. MBisanz ^talk 02:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Advice like "Let us do our job"?  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 00:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

As usual, enwp takes it to the extreme without fully understanding the purpose of this. Ban indeed, how utterly ridiculous. Majorly ^talk 01:04, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

It does say malicious use, y'know? Overreact much? Kylu 05:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

enwp manages to turn something so good, into something so pathetic by exaggerating it so much to make a good policy sound like a bad idea, I agree with Majorly and Mike above ...--Cometstyles 05:43, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Considering how freely rollback is given out on EnWP that was really over the top. Let's see if being bold helps... —Giggy 06:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Some projects are rather more zealous than others about protecting their perceived sovereignty. While I find such attitudes distressing, especially granted the lack of interest that most projects take in Foundation-wide affairs, belittling the other project will do little to resolve our differences. It is in our mutual best interests to attain mutual understanding, something which has sadly been lacking as of late. :( Kylu 06:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Giggy's edit..please be neutral about it and not to jumpy..--Cometstyles 08:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Why would anyone voluntarily expose themselves to the drama etc on en wp for the sake of rolling back the odd vandal :) --Herby ^{talk thyme} 09:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I did :)  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 14:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

And I thought you were normal like me...... --Herby ^{talk thyme} 15:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by "normal"? You're an admin there remember. Majorly ^talk 15:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the question just answered itself, Majorly. :) Kylu 15:55, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Enwp isn't just drama... some of us actually contribute to articles and improve the actual content, instead of fighting all the time. I got the impression that enwp people aren't "normal" according to Herby, which I find offensive. It's not perfect, but neither is Commons. Majorly ^talk 16:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

(several ec later!) Apologies - you need to be aware that my postings sometimes contain humour.

On a more serious note I fail to see why anyone would wish to use global rollback on en wp given the potential for drama and the number of vandal fighters. Personally I tend to avoid the place sticking to helping with link placement issues where I can (the drama pages have long gone from my watchlist). While I still can help with disruption I will retain the tools - if ever I find I cannot I will drop them as fast as I can. --Herby ^{talk thyme} 16:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

And having read Majorly's posting - nope I'm not suggesting all en wp people are not normal. They are some great hard working people there that are a pleasure to work with. It was more some humour with Mike - I apologise for any misunderstanding. --Herby ^{talk thyme} 16:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

This is an 'in' joke between Herby and I and was certainly not meant to offend. If you want in, you may email me :D  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 18:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

THe sentence in question originally referred to malicious use of global sysop rights, yet got moved and edited improperly to refer to rollback rights. Daniel (talk) 15:58, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

When I updated it to reflect the changes here starting global rollback/bot/sysadmin, I just did a copy/find/replace, so yes, it would be stupid to ban someone for misusing rollback. Sorry for the confusion. That is the kind of advice I'm glad someone pointed out. Thanks. MBisanz ^talk 01:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Project opt out?

Is there such a thing? Emesee 19:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Not at this time. It is technically possible though.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 20:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I wonder what for, I mean it's rollback ... and if someone really abused it he would loose it _globally_. Best regards, --birdy geimfyglið _(:> )=| ∇ 21:20, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

oh please, not again, no there is no such thing for Global rollback, it only applied to Global sysops.--Cometstyles 21:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

? Emesee 23:16, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Although it can be done, it would be silly to do. It is just rollback, and the users who have the tool are highly trusted.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 23:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Emesee: There was a fair bit of disagreement over the lack of an opt out for Global sysops, but this is nowhere near as big a deal; all rollbackers do is revert obvious junk (rather than delete/block/protect). —Giggy 00:29, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

This really is silly. I could achieve the very same with a script in my monobook or in my browser. This just makes things easier. :-) Cbrown1023 talk 20:26, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Active"

How "active" is an "active member"? Microchip08 20:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Very. Majorly ^talk 20:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, you can judge by looking at those who have it currently. In more general terms, we are looking for people with a strong history of cross-wiki vandal/spam fighting who are reasonably active doing such work on a regular basis. Users are probably an administrator on at least one wiki, if not more. Does that mean an average of one revert per day? Ten? I would say trying to find a number is counterproductive. In general those who do this work know each other, making selection easier. If you're doing work where you would benefit from the tool, then you should have it.

In short, Majorly is right - we want very active people (hence the low number of global rollbackers).  — Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 20:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inactivity?

I guess I kinda assumed we would remove users who are inactive. I'd suggest using more-or-less the same process as for Meta admin confirmations.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 04:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

lets wait for Luxo's tool to work at a 100% otherwise there is no real way of telling :) ..--Cometstyles 22:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't mean right now - I just meant in general. I don't think there are any users with global rollback who are inactive, however we should have some mechanism for removing them once the issue crops up.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 01:37, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry... issue? What's the issue? Majorly ^talk 01:47, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I think that it would be ok to remove inactive ones after a year of inactivity, --birdy geimfyglið _(:> )=| 04:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal to add the "skipcaptcha" right

I've talk to Pathoschild about this and he said it was ok to propose this. Sometimes, a Global rollbacker might have to roll back a edit the reqular way because the vandalism was kept for many edits. When they try to save it, if the person has not been there for 4 days, they need to enter a captcha. Captcha's are annoying when you try to do stuff like that. This will make sure the Global Rollbackers don't need to enter a captcha. If there are no objections, Pathoschild will add the right to the group. Techman224^Talk 03:17, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Global rollbackers already have autoconfirmed. I'm not sure if there are cases where skipcaptcha is needed because autoconfirmed isn't enough. If so, the right should be added.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 03:25, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

autoconfirmed does not stop the captcha. It's there so that people can edit semi-protected pages. It's the skipcaptcha that actually stops the captcha, meaning that Global Rollbackers don't have to be annoyed by entering a captaha. Techman224^Talk 13:01, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but in what situations is that applicable? There is a captcha for adding links when you are not autoconfirmed -- but global rollbackers are autoconfirmed. There is a captcha for creating accounts, but that's not relevant for global rollbackers. I'm just trying to find a use case for this.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 16:13, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Mike_lifeguard, lets say that a person went to Wikipedia, and vandalize a article. Then another user (not knowing it was vandalize) saves an edit after that. The vandalism is still there, and the rollback function doesn't work (because you can only rollback the latest revisions of one user). So you went to the history and picked out a revision, click on the time of that revision, click "edit this page", and saved that revision. If you haven't been there for four days, you would need to enter a captcha to continue. Techman224^Talk 19:19, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

No you wouldn't. Global rollbackers have the autoconfirmed right already.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 20:27, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree with Mike, with "autoconfirmed", we don't need "skipcaptcha"...--Cometstyles 21:18, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

As a developer, I can confirm that techman224 is correct. While the autoconfirmed group has the skipcaptcha right, the autoconfirmed right only gives the ability to edit semi-protected pages. If you want global rollback people to be able to skip captchas, you should give them the skipcaptcha right. Werdna 23:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Since I had global rollbacks, there has never been a time when i got halted by captcha in relations to removing or adding blacklisted urls, I remember i used to get those before global user groups were introduced, not sure if wikimedia wikis actually have that anymore..--Cometstyles 01:26, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Per Werdna, add it then.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 02:16, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Seconding. I've not run across this issue yet, but since the discussion is here, perhaps someone would like to make a section on any problems we've encountered using GR so far? Other than a vague wish that my language preferences were global (except for a few languages I'm very comfortable with) and a wish that I could have some sort of global userpage/js/css, I'm quite comfortable with the tools we have so far. Kylu 02:29, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not really a problem with people that have reverted vandalism on many wikis already. But for everyone that's new, they are going to get the problem. Techman224^Talk 14:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Pathoschild/Scripts/SynchCrosswiki!!!  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 17:04, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 04:04:38, 03 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Granting

The ad hoc system put in place at the get-go was

Stewards will review the request. The request will be approved if at least three stewards endorse it and there are no objections after a short period (typically approximately three days). If there is steward opposition, the discussion will require at least one week and 75% steward approval. Non-steward users are welcome to discuss as well, though stewards will make the final decision. (It is appreciated if non-steward users use {{comment}} instead of the yes/no templates to reduce confusion among those who do not have all the stewards memorised)

I'd like to suggest changing that to

The request will be approved if consensus to do so exists after a short period of consideration (typically approximately 3 days). If there is significant opposition, the discussion will require at least one week and 75% approval. All input is welcome, however when stewards determine whether consensus exists, it is expected that the weight given to the input of stewards will be highest, and that given to the input of those uninvolved in global affairs will be lowest. (It would be appreciated if non-stewards use {{comment}} instead of the {{yes}}/{{no}} templates to reduce confusion among those who do not have all the stewards memorised)

I think this is more in line with the ideology we share. Reviewing the requests from the beginning to now, I don't think the change in wording would have affected any outcome (which proves that the community is at least as good a judge as the stewards in these matters). If there is agreement to do so, this should be added to global rollback as well as SRG.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 05:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Sounds ok to me, best regards, --birdy geimfyglið _(:> )=| 05:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm uncertain as to why the community's voice isn't as important as the stewards in your proposal. I'm happy for stewards to determine the consensus in the end, but everyone's voice is, in fact equal. It's what is said that matters. Majorly ^talk 17:01, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

That's not true. In most discussions, established users' opinions are given more weight than new or anonymous users, for example. That said, it's perhaps not needed to spell this out. Opinions on that question are more than welcome.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 17:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, so I changed it to

The request will be approved if consensus to do so exists after a short period of consideration (typically approximately 3 days). If there is significant opposition, the discussion will require at least one week and 75% approval. This is not a vote, and all input is welcome. Stewards will determine whether consensus exists; when doing so it is likely that the weight given to the input of those involved in cross-wiki work will be most influential.

Further tweaking may be needed, but I think that is at least better.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 06:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move right

To fight move vandal swmt members won't be able to revert vandalism where you are not in autoconfirmed group. This right is not included in autoconfirmed right ( see Special:ListGroupRights. I think move right may be usefull for global rollbackers --Melos 13:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yep  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 14:05, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
• Yes, very important --Fabexplosive The archive man 20:10, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

 Added, "Færa síður (move)", best regards, --birdy geimfyglið _(:> )=| 17:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] tboverride and uboverride

I think both these overrides need to be added to the Global rollback, and the uboverride be added to the Global steward rights as well. The (tboverride) right allows a Global rollbacker to override the wikis local blacklist or the global one here when reverting articles which contain items in either blacklist and the (uboverride) right which was suggested by Kylu which she believes is also needed to work with tboverride...--Cometstyles 00:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure when this would present a problem. Can you describe a use case?  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 01:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] markbotedits

I suggest adding the markbotedits rights to the global rollback group. It would allow them to mark rolled-back edits as bot edits, useful on small wikis where one vandal could flood recent changes. Maximillion Pegasus 19:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Isn't already? - I actually can mark rolled back edits as bot edits. --Dferg 19:40, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

See Special:GlobalGroupPermissions/Global_rollback :). Regards, --Dferg 19:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I will update the page accordingly. Thanks, and Regards, Maximillion Pegasus 19:44, 3 October 2009 (UTC)