Talk:Wikimusic II

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See also the proposalpage.

Old discussion[edit]

(Copypasted from [1]) This page is about the creation of Wikimusic. You can add in this page you comment. If it becomes too mutch, I will move the comment to the talkpage, and keep the propositions here. For now, do as you like :) Please sign you comment, with the username on the wiki where we can reach you. Thanks. To be clear: this page is in two languages, because this conversation was already started in Dutch before I really thought of talk with other people. This project is still in the orientating phase. Further one comment: please don't care about the errors I make in my English. If it is in a proposition, you may change it into proper English, if it is in a reaction, opinion, please leave it. Thank you again. Effe iets anders 7 okt 2005 16:08 (CEST)

Dutch (English is preferred)[edit]

We stellen nu van alles vrij beschikbaar, plaatjes, tekst, bronnen. Maar een hele schat aan informatie die voor een paar euro bij de Kruitvat te verkrijgen is staat nog niet op een wiki! Muziek. En dat terwijl vaak de rechten op deze muziek al ruim verjaard zijn. Ik denk hier aan w:nl:Bach, w:nl:Strauss, Beethoven en w:nl:Mozart. Zij zijn al veel langer dan zeventig jaar dood, en dus rusten er geen auteursrechten meer op de muziek an sich. Ik dacht aan een wikimusic, een multitalig project, waarbij de muziek als geluidsbestand wordt gecombineerd met de partituur en de eventuele tekst. De partituur is in te scannen bij diverse bibliotheken, en veel mensen hebben het zelfs in huis. Maar misschien zou het handiger zijn om hier een stukje software te gebruiken om deze noten in de wiki te verwerken, zodat er in de toekomst misschien meer mee gedaan kan worden. Hierbij kan worden gedacht aan een bewerking met de computer of een afspeelmodus zonder orkest. Maar dat is voor de toekomst. Zijn er mensen in ge"intresseerd om verder te denken over dit project, om hierover te gaan brainstormen wat er allemaal mogelijk zou kunnen zijn, en wat we graag zouden willen? Graag ook wat mensen die in de muziekwereld zitten, want zelf heb ik er absoluut geen verstand van, van muziek. Want naast het auteursrecht voor de muziek, komt er bij de geluidsbestanden natuurlijk ook auteursrecht naar boven voor de uitvoerende auteur. Oftewel: We moeten eigenlijk een orkest vinden dat GFDL/CC muziek voor ons wil spelen, wat we vervolgens kunnen digitaliseren. Mensen met contacten in de muziekwereld zijn dan natuurlijk ook om die reden hartelijk welkom.

Ik hoop dat er mensen zijn die dit project wel zien zitten. Meldt je! Dan kunnen w, mits er voldoende medestanders zijn, misschien ook op meta overtuigend overkomen. Effe iets anders 1 sep 2005 11:43 (CEST)

Ik denk meteen aan w:nl:MIDI-bestanden... die kunnen "noten" afspelen, soort "geautomatiseerd orkest" J.Hollemans 1 sep 2005 13:00 (CEST)
iets dergelijks zweeft mij al tijden voor de geest, zie o.a. ook: Wikimusic en Proposals_for_new_projects#WikiMusic. misschien kunnen wij een druppel zijn, die... de emmer doet overlopen (ipv op een gloeiende plaat) ;-) oscar 9 sep 2005 00:35 (CEST)
Ik kwam vandaag (via mediawiki) de website van Lilypound tegen. Ik moest het even ergens kwijt, zodat ik het later nog eens op m'n gemak kan nalezen en op deze manier kan iedereen die interesse in het bovenstaande idee heeft hier wellicht voordeel uit halen. J.Hollemans 9 sep 2005 03:44 (CEST)
Het is een interessant idee, waar we best iets leuks van kunnen maken. Er zijn vast wikipedianen die een muziekinstrument bespelen, waardoor we kamermuziek zelf zouden kunnen opnemen (the real thing klinkt toch beter dan een MIDI-bestand). Alleen voor volledige symfonieën, operettes en opera's moeten we dan nog iets verzinnen. Ik wil best eens met een aantal een brainstormmiddagje houden (bij voorkeur in een café met een biertje erbij), maar gezien mijn beschikbare tijd moet dat nog maar even wachten. Arvey 9 okt 2005 18:17 (CEST)
Although I like to listen to classical music, I do not understand many of it (I can't read notes, I don't know how to distinguish several styles of classical music). If a project like this would become active, maybe it would be a nice idea to also add some video. Next to listening to the music, maybe it is also entertaining to see how the violin is played, or showing how a piano works. With that I can help. I've done some videoediting on the PC (not that it is very hard) and I also have the abilities to record it on DV. PatrickVanM 10 okt 2005 07:59 (CEST)


This I said on meta: I am momentarily thinking of a wikimusic as well, but i think i mean something different as the above. I just would permit free music (PD, GFDL, CC-free etc). At the moment that will mean classical music, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart etc. People dead over 70 years. And I would like to add three major topics with every musicpiece, to know: The audio, the score and in some cases the text. This would prefer some kind of wiki-notation for notes, but easier than the way as it is now (see ). I am still trying to prepare a plan, and I would like to hear more ideas, what people think of it. I leave here this, but I will probably not check this page a lot of times. Therefore, please give reactions on my nl.wp-usertalk, my talk at nl.wp, or email me, effeietsanders AT wikipedia DOT be . I will approach some users as well in the future, but I can not guarentee that I will find you. So, if you know about music, if you are interested in music, help with ideas to make an acceptable plan for this whole procedure. Free the music! (As I understood, a quote from Jimbo). Effeietsanders talk I said it on this page. I will check this page (, but for now not on meta. Here I can just check my watchlist. Effe iets anders 7 okt 2005 16:08 (CEST)

Hi effeietsanders, thank you for asking for my input, but I don't think I am able to be involved in a wikimusic project.... I have recently stopped being very involved in music and need to devote my energy to other projects. If it started, I would definitely use it and maybe add a few pages/edits, but I couldn't be much more involved than that. w:en:User:Zach Alexander 8 okt 2005 18:07 (CEST)
This is actually also one of the ideas that Jimbo mentioned in his speech on Wikimania 2005. I'm willing to help. I'm in a relatively good amateur choir myself, and have some distant links to a very good student orchestra. Although not everything we/they sing/play is old enough for its copyright to have lapsed, I could try to persuade us/them to do something for the free music cause. – gpvos (overleg) 9 okt 2005 18:23 (CEST)
That would be great! If we can record our own music whitch is PD, we may have "free" music, GFDL, CC-free or such a thing. I was also wondering if that might be possible, I even thought of a wikochestre. But that willl be rather difficult I guess, because we will be from all over the world. (at least, I hope we won't stay a club of Dutch people...) Effe iets anders 9 okt 2005 18:36 (CEST)
Hi Effeietsanders, thanks for inviting me to this discussion. I do have a few doubs about the feasibility of some of your proposed actions. As ex-performing choir singer, I know that sheet music can also be copyrighted by publishers who may have obtained those rights long time ago, but have survived even if the composer died more than 70 years ago. At least I do remember sets of sheet music that had prominent copyright markings on them, often in color to prevent all too easy copying. The piano excerpts I bought myself also carry a copyright notice, for instance Brahm's "Ein Deutsche Requiem" is marked © Edition Peters 1918, even while the work itself had it's premiere in 1869.
I was not really involved in the financial management of my choir, but I also vaguely recall item in the yearly financial reports for the "BUMA", the collective copyrights money collectors for the dutch music industry. Anyway, this should be investigated thoroughly before we invest a lot of time and effort in a project that might turn out to be an illegal activity. I still see the director of the choir every now and then, so I'll ask around next time I see him.
regards, Caseman 9 okt 2005 22:58 (CEST)
I think investigating is a good idea anyway. Maybe we can ask some advise at our legal advisors, I know that there have to be some wandering around in the Wiki. well, if I'll see one, I'll try to send him/her your way, or maybe you could ask and explain yourself. Maybe it has something to do with a kind of remake? Effe iets anders 9 okt 2005 23:28 (CEST)
It might be that just the printed sheet music or the arrangement of the piano excerpt is copyrighted, and not the music itself. I'll ask around but can't promise anything. Caseman 10 okt 2005 08:47 (CEST)
What's wrong with Wikitex? It looks like a good project. It uses Lilypond, which produces not only music notation, but also MIDI output. Of course, that's often no substitute for audio of real performances, but it's very useful. As far as ease of use, a GUI would really be useful, but that's already being proposed for Wikitex. Just my $0.02, or €0.02. By the way, you mention both score and tekst (text in English); in my experience text is pretty much a synonym for score, but clearly you're not using it that way. So could you explain what you mean by these? Ddawson 10 okt 2005 17:49 (CEST)
The "text" is of course the words as they are sung (only where applicable). For the score, you would need lilypond or some such, for the text I would also like to have a plain (wiki)text version available. – gpvos (overleg) 12 okt 2005 02:32 (CEST) has scores, texts, translations, and information about composers available. This wiki has a CPDL license based on GNU GPL (I can't find the text of that license now). Maybe this would be a good starting point to see what we can do, or perhaps collaboration would be possible... cicero 13 okt 2005 16:43 (CEST)
Thank you! I've added some request to come and talk on thir forum, so I hope they will come into here, and talk about possibilities, experiances etc. Effe iets anders 13 okt 2005 16:46 (CEST)
Hello, my name is Rafael Ornes, and I manage the Choral Public Domain Library (CPDL/ChoralWiki, CPDL is a large free choral music website (~10,000 scores, ~30,000 page views daily). It was begun 7 years ago. I just recently transfered the whole website to wiki in August. I would be interested in some sort of collaboration or integration. I am still new to this, so I am not sure of the logistics involved. you can comment here or at the [CPDL Forum]. BTW, the CPDL license was written several years ago and is based on the GNU Document License (1998 vintage). w:nl:Gebruiker: 14 okt 2005 00:31 (CEST)

Copyright issues[edit]

I've asked around and found the following:

  • While the music of composers that are dead for more than 70 years may be free of copyright, this need not always be the case. Copyrights may have been transferred to someone else.
  • The printed sheetmusic is copyrighted by the publishers, and may not be copied. When using these for performances, each member of the orchestra or choir should have an original print, using photocopies is illegal.
  • On recordings of classical music there will be copyrights by either the orchestra, the record company or both.
  • On public performances there also are fees to be paid.
  • In the Netherlands most orchestras and choirs are member of a union that takes care of copyrights, fees and other legal issues. "Local knowledge" withing choirs and orchestras about such issues is usually limited.
  • For performing of works by compusers that died less than 70 years ago there will be extra fees involved for both the printed sheet music and each performance. Often the sheet music cannot be bought, only be rented, fees can be in the order of 10 euro per performer and performance.
  • I have been warned by the conductor of the choir I used to sing in that there are many pitfalls.

So far, it appears that we should be very careful when publishing music in a Wiki.
regards, Caseman 10 okt 2005 10:50 (CEST)

A few informative websites (in Dutch):
regards, Caseman 10 okt 2005 11:32 (CEST)
Thank you. We use of cource only free music on the wiki i think. But I think, we have to check, that when we make our own sheet of music, so digitalize it with another way then scanning it, there might be no copyright. Of cource the BUMA will try it, but this is indeed a reason why we should prepare everything carefully. But this is also a good reason to start with this project. in this way, everyboday can rpint free licensed sheets of music, and can play it without fees. So music becomes cheaper, better availeble. (If PD of cource) I think I will ask some people of the legal part of the wikae to take a look into the plans and possible pitfalls... Effe iets anders 10 okt 2005 13:50 (CEST)
Yes, we would need to work from scores that were printed more than 70 years ago, and be certain they are free of copyright. I don't think anyone could demand fees to be paid when these are used, but we need to be certain of that. We should only use recordings by orchestras (and choirs) that are either older than 70 years (probably too low quality), or that have explicitly been released as PD/GFDL/whatever. I hope membership of that Dutch union (e.g. w:nl:Maatschappij tot Bevordering der Toonkunst) doesn't mean that choirs have to keep copyright, but it can't hurt to check that either. – gpvos (overleg) 12 okt 2005 02:40 (CEST)
I've asked w:fr:Utilisateur:soufron about this matter of copyright of the BUMA, and I got per IRC this respond (he is caseman :P):
yup, ok. He's right BUT - that simply means that you cannot copy a music sheet - not that you must obtain the authorization of the sheet publisher to make your own sheet - if you see what I mean - they own the rights on their sheets - but if the music is PD or if you have the authorization of the composer, you can perfectly write your own sheets - if I remember well, there even are a few free music sheets projects - you should quote me on the relevant discussion page
So I guess that this has not to be a problem, if we take the sheets into a wikilike format. Effe iets anders 22 okt 2005 19:26 (CEST)
Ok, it means that the copyright rests only on the "Artwork" of the printed sheet music, not on the actual notes themselves. That is good news. Now all we need is a scanner and "music recognition software" to convert it to MIDI and back to a score.;-) Caseman 22 okt 2005 19:59 (CEST)
Ah, about that I found information as well :) Oscar told me that there are recognizers whitch can digitalize a score, but they appear to make errors. So everything has to be checked all over again. A question immediately: Is there an easy way to enter music into a program or such a thing? I though of clicking with the mouse a fis, g, a, etc. So you have a "notenbalk"(I cant come up with the word, please translate if you want to :P) all empty, and you can just click on a certain heigh. For example, one click is a eighth, two is a quarter, three (on the same point) is a half, four a whole, five a double and six a break. Or we have to find another way. But if such a program could be integrated into a wiki, it would be great. Maybe we can make a list of items we want to include into our scores? (eight, quarter, half note, fis etc) joined with examples how it looks. Maybe we can ask a dev to discover if it is possible or not. Maybe I'm going too fast, if so, place me in the queue please :P Effe iets anders 22 okt 2005 21:46 (CEST)
Perhaps this might give some clues on how to create staves (that's how a "notenbalk" is called): [2]. It doesn't look as easy as drag and drop, perhaps there are better score editors that are also freely useable. Caseman 22 okt 2005 22:10 (CEST)
Free music layout program: en:Lilypond. Free msuci editor based on Lilypond: en:Rosegarden. I haven't used it yet, so I don't know how userfriendly it is. – gpvos (overleg) 23 okt 2005 12:37 (CEST)

NO. You can't not just scan a commercial score of a PD work. Often commercial scores are derrived works with substantial creative input and carry their own copyright. This is always the case for proper transcriptions to different mixes of instruments, and often the case otherwise. Please see all the work the Mutopia project has had to do to ensure their work is as free as they say it is. --Gmaxwell 21:44, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

There are books in production (called fakebooks because of their illegality) that contain hundreds of charts of popular jazz tunes. Much effort has been made over the past few years to legalize projects like these, and they now exist in books called Real Books (real because they are now legal, they bought all of the licenses to the songs). My question is... what if the users of WikiMusic transcribed the jazz tunes themselves? There would be no scanning of sheet music. There are many websites that have posted transcriptions of jazz solos, and there is no copyright infringement. Is this possible? Or is the breaching onto illegal territory as well? FlawExact 20 February 2006

Other projects[edit]

There are some other not-wikimedia but wiki-like projects about the music. I found as well: musipedia. The have a nice online keyboard. Can we integrate it into the MediaWiki software? Effe iets anders 2 nov 2005 11:08 (CET)

  • Musipedia could also be extended towards something like your proposal. Is Wikimedia open source software that could be integrated into Musipedia? That way, one would not have to start from scratch. Rainer (
  • Just found this feature request for MediaWiki: m:WYSIWYG Paint or Sound. Doesn't look like anything has been achieved yet, but the person in question may be interested in joining us.
I sent him/her an email, with the question to take a look at these pages. I hope (s)he'll do it :). Effe iets anders 3 dec 2005 12:43 (CET)

I want to be kept informed![edit]

If you want to be kept informed, please add a link (for example: # [[:en:user talk:Effeietsanders|Effeietsanders]]) to the page where we can reach you. A emailaddress is possible as well.

  1. Arvey 9 okt 2005 18:26 (CEST)
  2. oscar 10 okt 2005 01:38 (CEST)
  3. cicero 13 okt 2005 16:44 (CEST)
  4. Zanimum
  5. empoor 5 nov 2005 00:20 (CET)
  6. Sloyment
  7. Julian 25 nov 2005 18:22 (CET)
  8. wikimusic.rainer AT safersignup DOT com
  9. andrewa
  10. Fang Aili
  11. jademystery AT hotmail DOT com --Emeraldimp 19:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  12. Anjar

issues to think about[edit]

a few issues we might want to think about:

How do we handle vandals?[edit]

A good way might be to restrict the editing of score and reloading of music itself to sysops only. Normal users and anonymous may then upload, edit the text and information about the music. They are then not able to edit existing scores and music files. This is in my point of view the hard piece of vandalism to check. Text is not hard I think, just as it is now. But if you change the score, it is a lot harder. Maybe a certain level of user rights between the general user and the sysop might be useful. Then there don't have to be loads of sysops. A hard point maybe. But it might be a solution. Effe iets anders 13:49, 8 november 2005 (CET)

In a related note, would it be possible to generate a colored diff, as in the wikipedia? _That_ would show up any changes easily. --Emeraldimp 19:15, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Technical issues[edit]

Can we implement existing java-applets to the software? That might make the work more easier. Are there any further demands on the software? How do we want it to look? Effe iets anders 13:49, 8 november 2005 (CET)

I've got this great idea for the technical side: if you use a standalone program next to the website, make it an xml-based app with an http rpc to the wikimedia site that can download and search all music information. This can be done easily with embedded browser functions (more or less how msn messenger works, basically a browser instance embedded in an application with xml markup and function calls). Why is this such a good idea? Well, you can then make a truly free project: everybody can make software that can log in over very well-known (even in web-based applications usable) channels, to edit music information. The wikimedia site part is already based on this principle, so it doesn't need much adaptation. Using xmlhttprequest you can even make a web-based pseudo-standalone html application with simple html and javascript! That's my philosophy about the software part. Oh, yeah, I don't think Java applets are very good for this purpose, simply because it's not standard or free. It's mostly free, yes, but it's no official web standard. And it does not add any useful functionality in this case. Mental max 25 nov 2005 18:25 (CET)

Free music wiki[edit]

I repeat here what I just said on meta:

  • I would like to have a wiki for PD and freely licensed music,
    • in order to collect old music
    • in order to publish new music, and
    • for composing online.
  • On a case to case basis, the music could be presented
    • as lyrics only,
    • as sheet music (There is already a lilypond plugin for this.),
    • as computer music files (*.xm, *.mid) or
    • as recordings (*.ogg).
  • Colaborating composition using wiki and Tracker software linked together would be the greatest. -- Sloyment (de) 15 nov 2005 08:26 (CET)


Logo concept for the project

Effeietsanders asked me to create/design a (concept) logo for the Wikimusic project, so I did; see the logo to the right. I kept it simple, so that it wouldn't be difficult to recognize. Please contact me for comment, critism, and questions — empoor 16 nov 2005 22:26 (CET)

Very nice! Of cource I am not exactly the one to " demand" al logo, it has to be the community. But however, a logo looks nice. I will place it on the kinda-proposal-page. Of cource, other proposals for the logo are welcome as well. Effe iets anders 17 nov 2005 08:54 (CET)


I'm not sure the Wiki concept works in this case. I can't imagine, in good conscience, submitting a Beethoven sonata and opening it up to vandals, or even good-natured editors, who think they can "edit" Beethoven's work. If you change even one note of Moonlight Sonata, it becomes something other than Moonlight Sonata. -- 15:31, 12 December 2005 (UTC) (Oops, that's me, Fang Aili 15:32, 12 December 2005 (UTC).)

What is true I think. But you could also imagine that there might be little errors in the sheet and/or text, so a editable format would imho be preferred above a picture. But it is true that we should think about who we will let get access to this kind of work. Maybe we could use the newly introduced semi-protection automaticly on all the sheets? (We could place them like templates in another namespace, and then quote them like templates. The only thing we would have to do is semi-protecting that whole namespace) Effeietsanders 10:04, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Maybe have a kind of "Ur-text" that is the "official" version - and is protected - and then allow editors/vandals/what have you to spawn new versions from it - or from its spawns, using diffs, of course (diff the unchanging version for spawns; then, to create a "spawned spawn," essentially create a new copy of the spawn to edit. But does one keep track of lineage? How do you deal with identical copies, ie, identifying them, removing them, attributing the work, etc?). With the possibility that exceptionally different editions/arrangements could become protected as well? --Emeraldimp 19:13, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I think this project is very similar to WikiSource, and there a text must be validated by two different users before it's locked. After that only a moderator can edit it. --Anjar 18:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

What about wikialbums[edit]

would this include music albums? What about the problems that exist on wikipedia, (list of albums)? Would we want that in wikimusic? (I think it would be the place to put it!) Lyrics, music sheets, etc...

What kind of music albums do you mean exactly? We can't of course put sheets and lyrics of a modern group (less then 70 years dead nor free componers) on a Wikimusic, because it would be a violation of copyright. There are a few groups who produce free music, so they can be on the WikiMusic, but with groups like U2, Golden Earring or people like Robbie Williams will it be practicly impossible. (Of course you may try to persuade them :P) I personally don't want a WikiMusic to replace the articles about music in Wikipediae, but aside it. I could imagine that in a ecyclopaedic article other things would be then in a piece of text in a WikiMusic. But at the end it's not me who decides what we will do in the project, but it will be the community. I hope this is a little clear? Or maybe you would like to explain what kind of music albums you exactly mean? (Please sign you comment with some username, so we can find you back :) ) Effeietsanders 09:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


copied from The proposal page

A nice plan, but I'm affraid it's impossible to realise. Sheetmusic is very expensive to put online, or it is illegal. The not-MIDI-files are also only legal to put online when you take fragments of them. Information about music is possible, but I think it is much easier to find that information when you find it, together with all other lemma's, at the normal Wikipedia-site. And lyrics can be found at Wikisource - 19:35, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't really get it. Why would putting sheet music of Bach online, and making out of that a MIDI-file be illegal? Expensive might be true, if you mean new servers. I'm afraight that almost all proposed projects with success will need serverspace, so will be expensive. And information about a piece of music might not be encyclopaedic, but fit very well in a WikiMusic. Maybe you might want to discuss this further in Talk:Wikimusic II, this should not be (I think) a place for discussions, but for comments. I'll copy your and mine comment to there. Effeietsanders 08:33, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Of course it wouldn't be illegal! But we can expect to be told it is, again and again, both by music publishing companies (see and by people who have innocently believed their lies. Sorry if that's harsh! Andrewa 14:53, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
But... so? And I'll point out, though I'm sure you're aware of it, that the mutopia project has lots of scores available - in Lilypond format, if that's the way the project heads (and it'd be nice :-D )- so the startup/feasibility study could be done with some in the database already. And it's all public domain, to go along with zanimum's comment, below. --Emeraldimp 07:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

What if we started out with just music that's public domain, and then, once we know the project is completely do-able, and the software's up-to-speed, then expand to the debatibly legal content? -- user:zanimum

Dead project[edit]

The last edit here was almost a year ago. Is there any hope of this project continuing. I don't see it mentioned here, but IMSLP has similar goals, but mostly uses PD scans. It sounds like this project was going more for a mutopia approach, but got lost in the details of how music entry should work. I'm just curious. 22:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems pretty inactive to me as well. Might be worth turning it inactive, or deleting it completely, since it appears to not serve much of a purpose. The comments outlined above make it clear that such a project would be difficult. --Majorly 22:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I still am of the opinion this kind of a project should exist somehow, and that there would be chances for it as well to succeed. However, I am unfortunately quite alone in this, so it is indeed inactive. (Or better said, I nor the people who agreed with me have the time to set this up) Deleting would imho be a bad idea, for the purpose of preserving the discussions here. I was under the impression btw that this project was no longer on the list of active proposals? Effeietsanders 22:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
OK maybe not deleted. Unfortunately, it should be made inactive due to lack of interest. --Majorly 22:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm still interested in the project, but it looks like there are major questions concerning copyright and software. I'm a novice (at best) at both. OTOH, there are many wikis currently in existence. Can anyone point to one for guidance/comparison/ideas/etc? --Fang Aili

HECK YES![edit]

If this becomes reality, I'm IN! Deathgleaner 23:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

The technical problems solved?[edit]

If I'm right, the greatest probles have been:

  1. To present the music, both as sound and sheets
  2. To make and edit the music

A solution to problem 1. may be WikiTex. An example of this is found at WikiSophia.

A solution to problem 2. may be WebLily. I can't see on the page that's opensource, but maybe if somebody contact the owner, it can be done something about that. Here you can see the changes made in the code instantly. I'm afraid it doesn't work the other way.

In all cases this project will need much work, but I think eg. MuseScore can convert MIDI to Lilypond. Do anybody know about a "score to MIDI"-converter? --Anjar 18:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Musical score transcription project proposal[edit]

Maybe this project interests you: Requests for comment/Musical score transcription project proposal.--Micru (talk) 20:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)