Wikimedia Australia/2008-12-07 meeting/IRC Log
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Please note that I arrived slightly late, so a few minutes of discussion at the start is not here. All times are Brisbane time.
02:11 TheLetterE Craig :)\
Lankiveil hey
TheLetterE - \
liam yes - the BSB and account details are on the membership email
02:12 MarkHurd Yes, I paid by DD.
Lankiveil have we started. Sorry, I forget that you lot insist on messing with the proper order of God's chronological time.
liam changes nick to wittylama
Lankiveil
zero1328 Only a couple minutes, Craig
Bduke You can go to the bendigo bank and pay cash
privatemusings liam> how many do we have?
02:13 <- WaRpAtH has disconnected (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
jayvdb Lankiveil:
02:14 -> Virusboy has joined wikimedia-au
privatemusings wonders if the mic is on?
02:15 wittylama check1 check2
werdnum privatemusings: We heard you, don't worry
privatemusings thank you thank you, I'll be here all week /me goes back to corner....
02:16 Lankiveil so an arbitrator, a bureaucrat, and a checkuser go into a bar...
werdnum 04:06 < pfctdayelise> given that there are a large number of people here it would be great if people could keep the jokes and side comments to themselves, perhaps
02:17 wittylama well... there's not much 'official' being said right now...
privatemusings just the hoi polloi getting figety, werd....
Lankiveil is there a separate channel or something where the real meeting is taking place?
privatemusings nope - this is it
zero1328 Where'd Brianna go? checking the numbers?
privatemusings prolly.....
pfctdayelise ok, seems to be no more general comments
pfctdayelise regarding corporate membership
<- pfctdayelise has disconnected (Remote closed the connection)
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privatemusings ah - looks like she lagged 'n left....
privatemusings welcome back
pfctdayelise grrr, sorry
zero1328 hmm.
jayvdb wb Brianna
privatemusings lankiveil kept us amused with dirty jokes in your absence, bl
02:19 pfctdayelise anyway I just noticed I forgot to post the minutes for the 2008-11-23 ctte meeting. must do that soon
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zero1328 So anyway, what's the current number of members/pending people?
pfctdayelise current members almost 29, about 10 still to pay
wittylama "almost"?
02:20 privatemusings does that mean 28
pfctdayelise (almost= I have to update a couple of peoples' status)
zero1328 29 counting the 10 pending or not?
jayvdb hi Orderinchaos
pfctdayelise not counting
wittylama so - 39 have applied for membership.
zero1328 That's a good start
pfctdayelise approx
02:21 Lankiveil out of interest, what's the rough split between "full members" and concession members?
Lankiveil if you can tell me
wittylama do we know how many members there are of the other smaller/newer chapters?
Lankiveil no need to mention names
pfctdayelise i haven't checked, but most are full
Orderinchaos hey jay
pfctdayelise wittylama: check [[m:Wikimedia chapters]]
02:22 pfctdayelise regarding corp membership
pfctdayelise we decided not to pursue this at this time, as recorded in the minutes for 2008-11-16
zero1328 That makes it around $1500 in the kitty, from memberships
pfctdayelise "After discussion on wikimediaau-l, we seem to be cautiously in favour
pfctdayelise of working out a corporate sponsorship policy/agreement and cautiously
pfctdayelise against corporate membership at this time (not least because this
pfctdayelise would require a rules change at ~$70)."
Lankiveil zero: it will once those last ten people cough of their money
werdnum zero1328: $800 by my reckoning"
privatemusings is the $70 the sticking point, BL?
werdnum but maybe my multiplication sucks.
02:23 privatemusings and roughly what're we thinking 'at this time' might be? (this year? first year in total? etc.)
werdnum Can I make the comment that we should not pursue the idea of "Pay WMA to 'look at' your articles" ever?
pfctdayelise please refrain from speculating on our bank account. jayvdb will have a financial report for the AGM.
zero1328 Duly noted
pfctdayelise "at this time" = this interim ctte
Orderinchaos agrees with werdnum
02:24 pfctdayelise once a ctte is elected they can revisit whatever issues they wish
wittylama werdna - I don't think anyone has ever suggested that nor will they.
pfctdayelise privatemusings: $70 is not the only sticking point but it is one of them
werdnum It was being discussed on the mailing list a few weeks ago.
zero1328 wittylama, I think there was some odd mention on the mail list
Orderinchaos WMA should refer people with those sorts of queries to editors, and we have plenty in our membership - again no obligation
pfctdayelise we are interested in pursuing corp sponsorship
pfctdayelise AGENDA PLS
jayvdb
privatemusings I'd like to strongly support corporate membership plans....
02:25 privatemusings I think they'll be a jolly good thing
Orderinchaos when is the AGM btw?
werdnum Sponsorship = "Donation, with some recognition"?
pfctdayelise http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Australia/2008-12-07_meeting
werdnum Orderinchaos: that's on the agenda, for ater.
Orderinchaos ahh cool
Orderinchaos where is the agenda?
Bduke We can explore sponsors and see how that goes without changing rules
zero1328 see the topic
Orderinchaos ahhh
Lankiveil OIC: see Brianna's last message =p
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02:26 Confusing Anyone still here?
pfctdayelise If you want corp sponorship, help us form a policy/guideline for it
werdnum Confusing: yes, agenda is in the topic.
Confusing Cool. I will take a quick look.
Lankiveil BDuke: is there a difference legally speaking between "Sponsors" and "Corp Members"?
Lankiveil or are they just the same thing essentially?
wittylama member implies voting rights.
02:27 Bduke Sponsors are not members and have no rights under the rules
Orderinchaos im not sure why one would need to be a corporate member
pfctdayelise http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Corporate_sponsorship
Lankiveil probably for the sweet, sweet voting rights
02:28 pfctdayelise if you want corp sponsorships, help us figure out what they should look like
privatemusings the interim commitee have closed the issue though?
pfctdayelise not right here or right now
pfctdayelise we closed the issue of corp membership
pfctdayelise not sponsorshup
pfctdayelise *ip
jayvdb I think it is fair to say that we wont have corp members for this AGM.
privatemusings gotcha
Orderinchaos cool
jayvdb the next committee might tackle it. up to them.
pfctdayelise ok more to say? can we move on?
Lankiveil I agree with John, I think it's too soon to look at the added complexity of having corp members right now, but we should be open to the possibility down the road
Orderinchaos i think event sponsorships are better / pose less COI than corp sponsorship personally
02:29 Lankiveil but we probably should figure out a way to deal with sponsorships - we don't want to miss some useful cash just because we're not ready with a policy on the topic
Orderinchaos but yeah, I think we've probably discussed all we can on that
Lankiveil yeah
Orderinchaos (ie pre-agm)
Lankiveil okay, I'm done on that.
Orderinchaos lankiveil: agreed
02:30 jayvdb the COI side of things is quite important. our chapter should be founded on the people, and the committee elected by the people. if they then add corp members, it is the membership that have decided to do it. at the moment, we are just a temp. committee.
pfctdayelise regarding the website, not sure what update you want privatemusings
privatemusings I just had a quick question
jayvdb (agree.. moving on.. sorry for the late post to that thread
jayvdb "e/c" ?
werdnum One point I wanted to make is that it should be linked to the memberdb -- I'm willing to donate a few hours to write the appropriate "AuthPlugin" interface to make that happen.
02:31 Lankiveil I actually have some code lying around to do just that, werdnum
jayvdb Lankiveil: ?? you have worked with memberdb already ?
privatemusings (presumably this log will act as minutes ok, btw?) - we can hold you to that werd
pfctdayelise werdnum: that would be lovely, but it might be tricky with usernames (because we said people do not have to supply usernames to become members)
pfctdayelise werdnum: email the ctte later about that?
02:32 werdnum Okay, I'll discuss with you later.
Orderinchaos that seems like a reasonable plan (emailing the committee)
privatemusings so moving onto the website thingy....
pfctdayelise what is your question privatemusings
privatemusings I just wanted to confirm who has 'editing' rights at the wiki...
Lankiveil Nah, I have written a plugin to basically overwrite the default Mediawiki logon code, used it for a couple of sites, once you have the DB schema handy it doesn't take long at all to fix up if you know what you're doing.
privatemusings presumably members are able to edit?
privatemusings (or will be?)
pfctdayelise it's accounts-only editing. yes, members will be granted accounts (through the RequestAccount special page)
jayvdb yes, members are able to edit
privatemusings coolio - so I'd just like to encourage members to do so!
02:33 pfctdayelise http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Accounts
pfctdayelise ok
pfctdayelise privatemusings you also put "access to members details". what is this about?
privatemusings so signed up members are cool to start work on areas about activities, membership - anything really, I guess
werdnum Lankiveil: We'll discuss later, via email.
privatemusings righto....
02:34 jayvdb I see a few accounts already created on the wiki. so that is happening.
zero1328 The RequestAccount page should probably be noted after registration and possibly on the main page, as I wasn't aware of it until Brianna pointed it out on the mailing list
privatemusings I'm curious as to the policies about the information on the members list...
privatemusings who can access the full names and addresses etc.
privatemusings and how a member might go about applying for that info. etc.
pfctdayelise there is a members record
pfctdayelise which we have to keep by law
privatemusings the privacy of identity is an issue for me - and some others I've chatted briefly with
02:35 pfctdayelise other members can request to access it, and copy details from it (to contact members)
pfctdayelise members will only be able to access it by visiting me in melbourne
pfctdayelise or visiting the secretary at any given time rather
privatemusings and by law you have to allow that....
pfctdayelise yes
privatemusings so any member rocking up to your place can get the full names and contact details of all other members.....
pfctdayelise it's so that the ctte can't go insane and stop members calling a SGM to sack them
02:36 pfctdayelise names and addresses. not email adds I think
pfctdayelise and copy them by hand, yes
jayvdb bottom line is ... members details are accessible to other members.
Lankiveil maybe we should elect a secretary that lives on a cattle station in Western Queensland, should solve the privacy issue quite tidily!
wittylama i think PM's concern is not his email address - but his name.
jayvdb Lankiveil:
privatemusings I think it's an issue a bit larger than just me (which is no biggie)
02:37 privatemusings particularly given folk like blissy who are aussie...
privatemusings and other concerns about 'stalking' and 'outing' in general....
pfctdayelise we are a group grounded in the australian legal system
jayvdb we are not going to be a secret society where even members dont know who are members.
zero1328 Given that it's required by law, it can't be helped
pfctdayelise no wiki editor is forced to join
werdnum I'm not sure it's all that profitable or worthwhile to try and sidestep the rules by doing something like that.
privatemusings coolio
werdnum If you join, other members can find out your details. End of story, really.
02:38 privatemusings It's something for individual editors to consider - and it helps to be clear that the details have to be available to all other members.....
pfctdayelise obviously i would expect any member who abused this access to be summarily removed -- I would support removing them, at least
Orderinchaos same
Lankiveil obviously
zero1328 Well duh
privatemusings heh... what's 'abuse' though? - but that's for another day....
pfctdayelise do you have more questions on this privatemusings ?
02:39 Lankiveil can we back up a little - if one wishes to peruse this list, they essentially have to either live in Melbourne, or be willing to travel to Melbourne, is that correct?
Bduke Could I just comment that it seems to be very rare for members to ask to see the list.
pfctdayelise Lankiveil: that's our plan at the moment
privatemusings not many members organisations have our issues with identity though....
jayvdb all requests will be viewed with suspicion!
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pfctdayelise we are not taking all the issues from wiki editing and transferring them our org privatemusings
wittylama or identity privcy
02:40 privatemusings heh... well *you're* not
pfctdayelise again, WMAU members != wiki editors and vice versa
Lankiveil there's no real facility for an editor who lives in say, Townsville or Perth, to scrutinise the list then?
zero1328 The connection between your name and your wiki nick is not connected
Lankiveil you know, in case the Melbourne organisation goes crazy and we have to call an SGM
Confusing Basically, it will be hard for anyone but the secretary to get the member details without raising suspicion, and hopefully we will always elect secretaries we can trust.
zero1328 Well, it's optional anyway
privatemusings I should note that WMUK have had issues in this regard...
Lankiveil I'm not saying it's very likely, it just seems, I dunno, a bit funny to me
pfctdayelise Confusing: the ctte receives each member application, which includes address, so really it is ctte accessible rather than secretary
02:41 privatemusings fwiw - I'd treat the details as public knowledge really...
pfctdayelise Lankiveil: well we have a strange balance to work out. it's not set in stone but currently that's where we're at.
Confusing Fair enough. But certainly any ordinary member who shows up at your place and says "show me the list" will probably raise a flag, right?
Bduke i
werdnum I'm not sure that the worst-case "What if everybody goes crazy" situation is worth spending significant time discussing.
pfctdayelise any ordinary member who shows up at my PLACE rather than a meeting of some kind will raise a lot of suspcision
02:42 Confusing Well, whatever
Orderinchaos I tend to agree with werdnum... its purely a hypothetical
Lankiveil well, yes. I'm just wary of a balance developing that is overly tilted towards one particular city or group of members.
zero1328 Yeah, this is all speculation
Lankiveil I'm not actually expecting it to happen
privatemusings (just quietly - suspicion doesn't come into it, because all members have a legal right to the full details of all other members)
Lankiveil anyway, it's not worth getting really worried about, as far as I'm concerned.
privatemusings as long as that's open - all is well
pfctdayelise enough on this?
zero1328 Lets move on
privatemusings one quick bit more...
02:43 Orderinchaos pm: keep in mind we allow PO box addresses and things, so we've already put in a lot of safeguards.
privatemusings is there any policy in regard to membership info sharing with the foundation?
privatemusings (probably too soon.. thought I'd ask though....)
pfctdayelise privatemusings: currently no.
Orderinchaos sarah has i believe offered to let others use her po box for WMA purposes and once I get mine I'm happy to do the same for Perth based members
privatemusings so it may be, it may not be... issue for the next committee?
02:44 privatemusings hmmmm... are you sure that's kosher oic?
jayvdb privatemusings: yes, and members will expect to have input into those policies
Orderinchaos the only requirement is that people are contactable at the address.
pfctdayelise the address is recorded for contact purposes
privatemusings coolio on all fronts
Lankiveil if that's kosher, I'm happy to make the same PO Box offer for Brisbane people
Kamping_Kaiser hi all. meeting started?
werdnum Yes, a while ago.
Lankiveil if anyone is seriously worried about it - although then you'd have to trust me to pass anything on
pfctdayelise yes, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Australia/2008-12-07_meeting
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02:45 Kamping_Kaiser werdnum, oh. i didnt look like a meeting was running
pfctdayelise exactly. at some point you have to trust someone. or if not, then you prob should not join anything, ever
Lankiveil precisely.
Orderinchaos yeah if people are absolutely paranoid about this sort of stuff there is always the option simply not to join and just keep editing on wikipedia. ive heard that from one or two people over this way (WA)
02:46 Lankiveil realistically, I think the consensus is that it's a non-issue
pfctdayelise most activities, people will be able to participate without being members, i envisage
pfctdayelise wmau is not members-only, this channel is not members-only
Orderinchaos one doesnt have to be a member to, for example, participate in these open meetings on IRC or contribute ideas to WMA or help out
02:47 Orderinchaos like if we do get an event off i anticipate quite a few non members will probably help us out (probably even non wikipedians - like long suffering spouses/SOs :D)
Lankiveil hahaha
pfctdayelise is that enough on this topic?
Bduke Or even pay a donation. You just could not vote
Orderinchaos yes i believe it is enough
Orderinchaos bduke: indeed.
Lankiveil yeah, I think we've exhausted any useful discussion on this topic for now
werdnum pfctdayelise: yes, more than enough.
zero1328 Yes, please, lets move on
pfctdayelise ok
02:48 pfctdayelise I put 'CC booklet', referring to http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Participatory_Culture_Primer
pfctdayelise as yet undecided on the title still
privatemusings returning to AGM later?
pfctdayelise as you may have read this is something we're doing with Creative Commons Australia
02:49 pfctdayelise oh crap. my bad
pfctdayelise let's talk AGM now
Lankiveil hehe. We can see what Brianna's pet project is =p
pfctdayelise we need 14 days notice for the AGM
02:50 pfctdayelise so to hold one before xmas we should decide extremely soon
pfctdayelise I think it could be good to discuss on the members ML, to maximise availability
werdnum I'd prefer pre-Dec-29, because I'm leaving the country then (maybe). That might not be possible, though.
Orderinchaos yeah we've got this odd problem again of the dispersed population, and the extreme difficulty of organising meetups based on any kind of notice
pfctdayelise another point is that we can conduct the elections trhough memberdb, if we want to
Lankiveil well, the only reasonable day that I can see us doing it before Xmas would be Dec 21
Lankiveil which is two weeks exactly
pfctdayelise that won't happen
02:51 Lankiveil yeah
Lankiveil I think we should aim for January
Orderinchaos no way we'd be ready by then.
werdnum Forgive my ignorance -- what exactly is *necessary* prior to an AGM?
pfctdayelise 14 days notice to members
pfctdayelise and a set agenda
Orderinchaos nominations for the committee too
pfctdayelise for us would only be normal stuff i think
Orderinchaos which would have to go out prior to the agm
zero1328 There will probably be several absences due to Christmas, so it's really either what Craig said, or January sometime
Lankiveil in terms of the meeting, booking rooms and locations for the meeting in several different cities
Bduke I think we should decide on a day just after Australia Day and that gives us time fir nominations to come in and places to be booked in various places
02:52 Orderinchaos lankiveil: last time we tried to do this in perth, we fell back to two people and neither turned up
Kamping_Kaiser hold it at LCA
Orderinchaos some sort of skype thingy might work better
pfctdayelise well do we want to make it in person like the incorp meeting or make it mostly online?
werdnum Some time after about midday would be preferable for me - I'm going to be in San Francisco.
Lankiveil Orderinchaois: When we did it, we got a fab room at the State Library, but we had to kick some cute girls out who had probably booked it fair and square
02:53 Orderinchaos yeah we were going to do it at either our state library or one of the unis, but internet access was likely not possible, we were just going to do it by speakerphone in the end
zero1328 Uh, Craig, we were the ones who booked it...
Lankiveil TheLetterE was cool enough to get a laptop with wireless internet, and then we used Skype to call onto the party line
02:54 Lankiveil after we set up the computer and all, it worked very well
pfctdayelise LOL, party line
Orderinchaos parrrrrty line
privatemusings I think as soon as humanly possible would be a good thing.....
TheLetterE
pfctdayelise privatemusings: are you going to become a member? because if not, the AGM is one thing that is truly members only
02:55 Orderinchaos i think anything from perth would probably be on an individual basis
Orderinchaos just because everyone here is so busy
pfctdayelise well if we want to leave time to organise in-city things, then prob mid-late jan is best
Lankiveil agreed.
Orderinchaos and myself, mark ryan and gnangarra are the only WMA people over here as far as I know
TheLetterE before work gets busy again! pleaseee
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jayvdb hi DanielB
DanielB lol, my computer has stopped randomly popping up tabs in firefox, so I'm here
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02:56 TheLetterE DanielB, my trick?
DanielB TheLetterE, very much so
DanielB danke E
DanielB ok, dont let me derail you.
Confusing I think I'm still the only member here in Canberra, so unless I went to Sydney for it (which is not entirely out of the question) I'd just be phoning it in from home.
pfctdayelise DanielB: discussing agm dates
TheLetterE no problems.
Lankiveil I've just been informed by Zero that my version of events in the above story is incorrect, and that I booked the room but evidently forgot about it =p
pfctdayelise remote phone in should be fine
TheLetterE great
02:57 TheLetterE we shall do that again Craig?
TheLetterE or are we going to pack bags this time?
Lankiveil yeah, I thought it worked good, if you can get the laptop again
DanielB pfctdayelise, cool-o. im retransfering the funds tomorrow but ive got an appt with someone from ANZ tech on Tuesday at 10:00 to look at what's going on, because two eBay transfers have also not gone through e-Banking.
TheLetterE sure thing
DanielB (I did all three via electronic login, not manually at the branch)
pfctdayelise what about like sunday 11th jan?
DanielB if two go through, consider it a donation.
02:58 Lankiveil hopefully we can use the opportunity to inconvenience more cute girls. Once we've got a date set we'll bother everyone else about it on the mailing list rather than bothering everyone else here about it
privatemusings maybe someone who's not intending to stand for the new committee could knock up some pages on the wiki to allow folk to stick their hands up?
TheLetterE pfctdayelise, sounds fair.
privatemusings Lank - you planning on standing for the commitee?
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Lankiveil I'm a glutton for electoral punishment. Perhaps, depends who else runs.
pfctdayelise privatemusings: what are you talking about? stick their hands up for what?
DanielB Lankiveil, I noticed
pfctdayelise returning officers?
DanielB No, committee members I think.
02:59 werdnum pfctdayelise: for committee..
privatemusings yup
pfctdayelise well as I said, we can actually run that though memberdb, if we want
TheLetterE polls?
Lankiveil do we need to have a formal vote at the AGM for that?
pfctdayelise LUV and Linux Australia use memberdb to conduct their elections
Orderinchaos i'm hoping to stand as well, as i think we need diverse geographical representation and i do have the time and means to help
Lankiveil or can we run it through memberdb, read out the results at the AGM, and have everyone approve the results or something?
03:00 TheLetterE Lankiveil, sounds alright.\
pfctdayelise the rules don't say anything about how the election needs to be conducted AFAIK
MarkHurd No mention of RO?
werdnum RO?
pfctdayelise oh yeah...
DanielB returning officers
pfctdayelise they are mentioned
bainer the procedure is essentially up to the returning officer
03:01 pfctdayelise "Each centre must have a Returning Officer, appointed by the Secretary, to report attendance and numbers voting on each resolution."
jayvdb Lankiveil: that sounds like a nice approach
werdnum ah, I see.
privatemusings maybe the existing committee can appoint a returning officer and we can head for Jan 11th?
Lankiveil we'd need a returning officer for each city
zero1328 The ROs were appointed at the last AGM
pfctdayelise we don't need to appoint them ahead of time i think
jayvdb pfctdayelise: you can be the returning officer for the "memberdb" votes ?
03:02 pfctdayelise jayvdb: no, since I'm intending to run
Lankiveil ie: at the last meeting, I tallied the results of the Brisbane people and communicated that to Brianna through the phone
jayvdb ah
jayvdb right
pfctdayelise but I think we should do apractice run with memberdb
pfctdayelise a fake election, to get used to the software
jayvdb I agree
Lankiveil that sounds wise
MarkHurd Yep.
jayvdb but ... not this week !
03:03 jayvdb im tired of fake votes!
DanielB has exams this week.
DanielB jayvdb, lol.
DanielB irony factor 9.6
Lankiveil I think having a combination of memberdb votes AND then more votes at the AGM would be too much
Lankiveil we either go one way or the other
DanielB well, we can all just use the proxy forms in memberdb
Lankiveil I mean, it's not like any members of WMAU don't have internet access to vote with
pfctdayelise right
03:04 pfctdayelise memberdb voting can be done ahead of time which is good for members who can't attend an agm meeting
TheLetterE they have to have some kind of internet to register
DanielB TheLetterE, we also accept registration carried by pidgeons.
03:05 Orderinchaos yeah what one maybe could do
TheLetterE
DanielB Mailmen are right out.
Orderinchaos is have all the voting online thru memberdb
zero1328 Registering offline is possible I think? But at this point in time I'd assume all of us used the online forms
pfctdayelise ok, so those are some rough plans
bainer DanielB: singing telegrams?
Orderinchaos but those who for whatever reason aren't on memberdb can vote by proxy
Orderinchaos would that be through the chair or through any member (provided appropriate safeguards were set up to ensure the proxy carrier doesn't simply vote twice in their own preference)
DanielB bainer, provided it takes the form of a poem, preferably a haiku
Lankiveil can I assume that voting is not in the form of a secret ballot?
pfctdayelise um, everyone will be on memberdb
03:06 Orderinchaos Lankiveil: probably "secret ballot to the best of our ability acknowledging some major limitations" is the best policy IMO
Lankiveil sounds fair
MarkHurd I'm a director of a public listed company and one issue we have is proxies being submitted for shareholders who do actually turn up too. It is mitigated by
DanielB I wish to become / a member of, um... / Wikimedia Australia cos / it's so awesome.
Bduke Voting has to be at the AGM in such a manner as the committee may direct - Rule 23 (6)
03:07 Orderinchaos some votes won't be entirely secret, but it may be that only the secretary or some other officer may know - i wouldn't support a system where everyone knows how some people voted
TheLetterE lol DanielB
DanielB We direct you to vote against an Eastern European bloc, for irony's sake.
MarkHurd a show of hands at the AGM, and when that's close we go to the shareholderregister.
Lankiveil haha
DanielB glances at jayvdb for a reaction.
Orderinchaos giggles
Lankiveil I was trying to make the Armenia joke, but couldn't frame it as well as DanielB, bravo good sir
pfctdayelise ok this meeting has been going over an hour
DanielB danke
03:08 DanielB shuts up now.
TheLetterE I'm going to have to head off early, might be back, if not, nice seeing you all.
Lankiveil okay, lets get back on topic
TheLetterE
Lankiveil dates?
Orderinchaos (the candidates are x, x, x and a token armenian.)
Lankiveil late January?
jayvdb DanielB:
pfctdayelise jan 11?
Lankiveil that suits me as good as any date
03:09 DanielB sure...
zero1328 Jan 11 sounds fine
pfctdayelise this is not us deciding, btw
DanielB if it was jan 18 i might have been in melbourne
pfctdayelise the ctte sets the time and date. but I'm sure if it works for everyone here then that will be a good start
pfctdayelise jan 18= thurday. bit random!
privatemusings I want to say with a smile that I think the AGM has probably taken a bit longer to get together than it might've - so as soon as possible would be a good thing, i reckon
Lankiveil yeah, just as a rough show of hands I think that Jan 11 seems to be okay with everyone
DanielB pfctdayelise, erm...no it isnt
03:10 DanielB you're looking at jan 08
Confusing No problem for me
Kamping_Kaiser jan 11/18 seem to be ok for me.
zero1328 Jan 18 is a sunday, as is 11th
Lankiveil so I think that should be our "recommendation" to the ctte
pfctdayelise DanielB: i was looking at dec 18. my bad
privatemusings The interim committee will have to confirm this of course....
DanielB pfctdayelise, *fail*
DanielB
privatemusings d'ya reckon they can do that this week though?
03:11 DanielB we only need to give 14 days
Lankiveil that's a minimum right?
DanielB so it could, in theory, be done at any time up until christmas
pfctdayelise likely enough. depends if we need a meeting to decide. hopefully we don't,
DanielB yeah, minumum
Lankiveil I mean, they could announce an AGM for Jan 11 today, if they wanted?
DanielB minimum*
privatemusings let's lock it in asap, I reckon
pfctdayelise well the whole point of making it advance is so poeple can arrange venues. so leaving it later wouldn't make sense
DanielB no, it wouldnt, but if there's a good reason to wait beyond this week, then we can.
03:12 DanielB there likely isnt a good reason, but it isnt a MUST HAVE DATE BY FRIDAY thing
privatemusings I guess that's up to the interim committee......
Kamping_Kaiser late am, if the ctty want feedback on preferred time
pfctdayelise ok
DanielB <AntiSpamMeta> Medium risk threat [#mediawiki]: werdnum - using the DC.C SE.ND exploit; ping flyingparchment, RichiH, AfterDeath, dave2, and troubled
DanielB tsk tsk
DanielB tsks at werdnum
03:13 werdnum Please keep that elsewhere.
pfctdayelise DanielB: please keep on topic
zero1328 We should really cut down on side comments and such; we're kind of taking alot of time already
pfctdayelise I wanted to ask if people think setting regular IRC meetings like this would be useful/interesting?
werdnum Possibly, although preferably shorter.
Lankiveil I think if we had them more often (so we had less to discuss), they'd run a lot shorter
zero1328 I don't know why they stopped, actually
03:14 Kamping_Kaiser pfctdayelise, if organised/run a little better
privatemusings hopefully the interim committee can confirm the date of the AGM well before christmas then
DanielB well, i cant exactly understand why this needed to be irc. no discussion here is binding, and why couldnt people have just emailed in to the ml regarding the AGM...?
privatemusings re: IRC - I'd say just come in the channel if you want to....
pfctdayelise would you prefer meetings with set agendas or just kind of "show up and talk about whatever" meetings?
pfctdayelise DanielB: they could have
pfctdayelise organising via irc is only slightly less painful than organising via ML
03:15 pfctdayelise has not yet mastered the art of how to run an IRC meeting
DanielB yes, but it has the "must be online and using irc at that time" factor.
pfctdayelise it's extremely hard
zero1328 I think there should be both types of meetings
werdnum I think we've all observed that it's difficult
pfctdayelise DanielB: the benefit is that it is a conversation. using a ML for conversation = painful for everyone else.
Kamping_Kaiser pfctdayelise, i think having $time that the regular meeting happens is ok. if theres somthing to talk about, talk about it. if theres not, have a discussion (or skip it :))
privatemusings and at the point we're having a meeting about what meetings to have, I gotta disappear
privatemusings thanks all......
DanielB thinks this thread needs more rhyming from the likes of bainer.
03:16 werdnum The problem with IRC meetings is that you run through a lot of stuff that not everybody's interested in.
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werdnum On the mailing list, you can just skip over those threads.
Lankiveil I think that's a problem with meetings, full stop.
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DanielB Do we need one of those conference phone thingies again?
DanielB ie. do I need to go and plead with educationau again?
pfctdayelise yeah probably
zero1328 That's even harder
werdnum Perhaps we could install LiquidThreads on the official wiki.
Kamping_Kaiser DanielB, wouldnt need to plead this time i think
03:17 DanielB no, ill just bribe them with some WMAU cash...I mean, um...DISREGARD.
Kamping_Kaiser hhehe
DanielB (sarcasm, if anyone missed it...)
Lankiveil heh
Lankiveil are we still going to be proceeding per the agenda
Lankiveil or is the meeting over?
Kamping_Kaiser walks past edu.au every day
zero1328 There's still things to cover, though
03:18 jayvdb lets move on then ?
Lankiveil lets
DanielB Kamping_Kaiser, orly...
pfctdayelise meh, I would kinda like to leave
Lankiveil heh
Kamping_Kaiser DanielB, yarly. twice (!)
pfctdayelise someone else could take over the minute the discussion?
zero1328 So, about this booklet thing
Lankiveil I can continue running the meeting, if you like?
03:19 jayvdb over to you Lankiveil !
Lankiveil hooray
zero1328 So far it looks like only jayvdb has put his name down for what he's like to write about
Lankiveil okay, the CC booklet
zero1328 And, if I remember correctly, it's should be completed by the end of the month?
03:20 pfctdayelise that is the theory
DanielB what sort of topics are wanted/needed?
zero1328 http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Participatory_Culture_Primer
pfctdayelise i just wanted to say, i would really like people to volunteer to cover topics:)
pfctdayelise and then to actually do so
zero1328 There's also an issue on what kind of all-encompassing title it should be
03:21 zero1328 You've probably seen the mailing list talks
Lankiveil aye
DanielB lol @ open law.
Lankiveil the current title is very "work in progress-ish", but I didn't realise that Brianna has gotten such a nice little structure up
zero1328 So I think there's three things to tackle here. The title, who's writing, and a proper deadline
Lankiveil bingo
03:22 Lankiveil unless there's a miracle, I don't see it being finished by the end of this month
DanielB will write...something?
DanielB ill take OER's
Confusing I'd like to contribute, but frankly I'd have no idea. About the only thing I think I know something about would be the free licenses section, but there'd be other people here with a better idea of that than me.
pfctdayelise don't just say so here
pfctdayelise say so on wiki
zero1328 Brianna noted that each chapter is an independent subject, and we could simply cut down on the book if there's a problem
DanielB i am...
pfctdayelise Confusing: not at all!!
zero1328 Not saying that's the plan, though
03:23 Lankiveil Confusing: I'm in the same boat, I'd love to help, but it's not my area of speciality
Kamping_Kaiser Confusing, get something down, and those people can refine instead of being scared away by all the work
pfctdayelise Confusing: you can learn as you go. it's only an a5 page, not onerous
Lankiveil Brianna: if someone is interested in helping, should they just make a note on the WMAU wiki?
DanielB pfctdayelise, is the aim of "open" as in "open to contribute" or "open to reuse"?
Lankiveil or if they don't have an account, email you?
pfctdayelise Lankiveil: yep, that sounds great
Confusing Fine, call my bluff So I'll try to write something, and then put it up once my wiki account is confirmed.
pfctdayelise DanielB: "open" where?
DanielB OER's
03:24 Lankiveil just try and call the topic BEFORE you write the material, it would be a waste to write some brilliant prose only to find someone else has already written a good A5 primer on the topic
zero1328 We should probably post a reminder about the booklet on either the mailing list or the member mail list or whatever it is
Lankiveil zero: good idea
pfctdayelise Lankiveil: there is no doc that covers this broad a range of topics
03:25 pfctdayelise that I have noticed
zero1328 Some are only on one or the other, I'd bet
pfctdayelise and I look for these kinds of things all the time
Lankiveil yeah, what I'm saying is that it would be a shame if ConMan and I both wrote a fab page on free licences, and we could only use one
Lankiveil for instance
pfctdayelise anyway I must get going now
Orderinchaos okay c u soon
pfctdayelise Lankiveil: oh yeah, that's why people should mark what they are doing
03:26 pfctdayelise thanks everyone for coming, hope you found it useful
Lankiveil aye
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Orderinchaos sorry i've been quiet, i'm having major computer problems (anyone who knows anything about motherboards would be welcome to email/pm me btw)
Lankiveil thats cool. Does anyone else want to talk about the CC booklet?
Lankiveil or should we move onto the next topic?
zero1328 Uh.. don't make it touch water, Orderinchaos
zero1328 Any ideas on the booklet title?
Orderinchaos it's only 5 days old and i've already had to refund one this week
Lankiveil FUN FACT: motherboards don't work if you put them through the wash.
03:27 Orderinchaos LOL
DanielB thinks is becoming too much like -admins
Lankiveil heh
zero1328 <.<
Lankiveil back on topic... the booklet title?
Kamping_Kaiser cant we finalise the topic after the content is made?
03:28 <- drivamgr2005 has disconnected
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zero1328 I threw a few lame and extreme ideas on the mailing list, but hardly appropiate
Lankiveil I don't see why not.
Kamping_Kaiser doing title -> content seems a broken way to do things
Lankiveil see what the content is, and base the title on that
Kamping_Kaiser yep
zero1328 Well, we already have some sort of idea of what kind of content it is
03:29 Lankiveil even if we don't have much actual content yet.
zero1328 Working out a title doesn't need to be immediate, but we should think about it while we're working on it
Lankiveil aye
Lankiveil in the interests of keeping things moving, I'd like to move onto the next topics...
03:30 Lankiveil unless someone has been typing up a short novel on the best title for the booklet
zero1328 What about a deadline?
zero1328 We probably can't discuss that without brianna though
Lankiveil yeah
zero1328 She's the go-to girl for working with CCau
03:31 Lankiveil as she's the one driving it, she's probably the best person to bring those sorts of questions up with
Lankiveil sorry Zero, I'm going to move onto the ABS statistics now
Lankiveil otherwise this meeting will go all day
zero1328 It's okay, I didn't have anyhting else to add
03:32 Confusing Now this is something I do kind of know stuff about. But what do we want to discuss about it?
Lankiveil well, that was what I was going to ask
Lankiveil obviously, its tops that they're doing it
Lankiveil someone was going to compose a letter on our behalf congratulating them, weren't they?
Lankiveil *checks email* Liam, in fact.
03:33 jay|backin10 changes nick to jayvdb
Lankiveil I'd be interested in seeing if he's gotten any response yet
zero1328 Do we need to do anything else besides a letter?
Lankiveil I talked about this a bit on the mailing list - obviously there's plenty of opportunity for us to now use this data in more creative ways
03:34 Lankiveil I think the really interesting thing about this though is getting an australian government department to release open content
Confusing I'm not sure how much else we need to do with the ABS, but there's certainly a lot we can do using the announcement.
DanielB Lankiveil, PM
DanielB oh, and the SES has also released all images taken by them (ie. the ones they have rights to) on their website as CC
03:35 Lankiveil yeah
Lankiveil its a bit of a quantum shift in terms of the way government and quasi-government entities are approaching licencing their material
Lankiveil we should do everything we can to encourage others to do the same
Confusing In particular, I think it would be really nice if in about 3 or 4 months, it would be possible to see how this release has affected the use of ABS data, and possibly use that as an argument for other departments and organisations to look at this kind of thing.
03:36 jayvdb can we set up a task force in the wikipedia project ?
03:37 jayvdb to make use of the data
Lankiveil agreed, if we can convince them that it's a "good idea", the potential for getting our hands on other info increases
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Lankiveil jayvdb: what sort of use do you envision for using the data on WP?
03:38 jayvdb Lankiveil: we have pretty poor coverage of Aus stats topics
DanielB WS might benefit as well maybe
jayvdb yea, WS would be an interesting angle
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Lankiveil the first thought that occured to me would be that it would be useful in doing maps, graphs and the like for articles
Lankiveil I like the WS idea too
03:39 jayvdb Lankiveil: if we can start to work out what they have released, on a wikiproject page, we can start to figure out how it can be used
Lankiveil it depends what material they end up releasing, they say "a majority", whether these are raw stats or something else will probably determine what we can get out of it
jayvdb there are lots of ABS reports which are the principal basis of govt policy
03:40 Confusing I suspect that pretty much everything that's already available as a free download will be released, which means all the basic stats themselves.
jayvdb for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backing_Australia%27s_Ability
jayvdb policy frameworks are not covered very well in Wikipedia
03:41 jayvdb we do write about acts, and groups of laws
jayvdb but the policies and plans of each govt are rarely covered in detail
03:42 jayvdb those are largely influenced by ABS reports
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Lankiveil yeah. The potential for indirect improvement of WP articles is definitely there, as is the prospect for direct improvement of WS by hopefully including any reports they come up with and the like
Lankiveil ah, welcome back, Mr Lama.
wittylama ta.
03:43 Lankiveil we were talking about the ABS releasing their stuff CC
Lankiveil have you gotten any response from them yet?
wittylama no
Lankiveil (I figure probably no, but can't hurt to ask)
jayvdb is there a onwiki thread about this ?
Lankiveil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Australian_stats.2C_soon_to_be_CC
03:44 Lankiveil is there anything else anyone would like to bring up on this one?
03:45 Confusing The other part of the announcement, that they're making some changes to the website, might also be of note for anyone who's been thinking of writing some WN articles.
03:46 Confusing Other than that, I think that's most of what I have to say. If anyone's got questions on ABS stuff, I may have some idea.
Lankiveil okay
Lankiveil moving on then
Lankiveil "Education Tours"
03:47 wittylama right
Lankiveil there's been a fair bit of discussion about this on the mailing list of late, does anyone else have anything that they'd like to bring up?
wittylama can you clarify what is meant by "education tours"? Are you referring to visiting High Schools?
03:48 Lankiveil I believe so. Brianna didn't leave much more detail than that on the agenda.
zero1328 I've been thinking that maybe we should compile a list of blue card policies according to state, somewhere
zero1328 But there shouldn't be much difference
wittylama is she gone?
Lankiveil But I want to discuss this, so I'm choosing to interpret that as "high school visits", and also "doing presentations for education dept. staff"
Lankiveil yes, she had to leave
03:49 wittylama what i'm finding out from the NSW Department of education is that you cant "register" an organisation
Lankiveil I thought we'd just run quickly through the rest of the agenda though.
wittylama there is no "list" of approved groups.
zero1328 Where'd you get the idea that one existed? I assumed it was the department of education
wittylama this kind of list only exists for in-school performances (music/theatre) etc.
03:50 wittylama I was told there was such a thing by a friend who works for the board of studies.
Lankiveil keeping in mind that different states will probably have different ways of dealing with these things
wittylama It is up to the school principal to approve individuals - school by school basis.
wittylama @ lankiveil - yes. indeed.
03:51 Lankiveil ahh
Confusing So, for example, Bell Shakespeare and Musica Viva get group "passes"?
gn is there a difference between working with students and working with teachers?
Lankiveil I think at this stage our efforts would be better concentrated working with teachers
wittylama yes.
Lankiveil anecdotally, my sister is a high school teacher here in QLD
zero1328 Students are minors, thus you need a "blue card"
wittylama working with students it is a strong encouragement to get a police check.
03:52 wittylama working with teachers then you'll only need the approval of the principal.
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Lankiveil and while I've corrected a great many of her misconceptions of what the project is all about, she must have got those ideas from somewhere. I worry that many teachers think the same way due to being misinformed.
Lankiveil zero: blue cards only exist in QLD I think
Lankiveil other states have their own mechanisms
Confusing I think that educating the teachers should be the first step, anyway.
Orderinchaos is a teacher - well will be next year
zero1328 That's how I refer to it, anyway
03:53 Lankiveil yes. It seems if you want to work with kids, you'll need to go through a police check of some sort. Which is fair enough.
wittylama @ confusing - yes. This is also bureaucratically easier.
Orderinchaos although i'll be working in the adult education field, i abandoned my 2007 plans to become a high school teacher did several pracs though and had a good time and
learned a lot
zero1328 My sister tutors high school students in her spare time
Orderinchaos that's where I got the WWC card
zero1328 just thought I'd throw it out there
Lankiveil yeah
Orderinchaos http://www.checkwwc.wa.gov.au/checkwwc <-- WA's mechanism
03:54 Lankiveil I really think that working with teachers (ideally in a centralised setting at head office, rather than going to individual schools), is probably the best way to go
zero1328 Anyway, this basically means that we might have to compile all the differences onto the WMAU wiki
Orderinchaos i dont think it would hurt WMAU to have a database of sympathetic people who have the full school clearance
zero1328 Or at least make a page full of links
03:55 Lankiveil OIC: sounds like a good idea
Orderinchaos doesnt mean we have to go to any effort to get more but if we have them on hand, then it's an additional resource
Orderinchaos a lot of random people who don't work in schools have the same level of clearance too
jayvdb can we write a wikipedia article about these cards ?
Orderinchaos eg people who employ <18 apprentices in various trades etc
Lankiveil yes, my understanding up here is that if you want to work with kids in any capacity at all, you'll need a blue card. But they're not that hard to get.
03:56 zero1328 It takes only a couple weeks, really
Orderinchaos yeah same in WA, you just apply and it comes through 6 weeks later, there's a payment for it and that's the only hurdle really
Lankiveil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(Australia) ?
zero1328 simple as something like renewing a driver's license
Orderinchaos well it's not called a blue card here
Orderinchaos mine's white and green
jayvdb
Orderinchaos it's a blue card in NSW and QLD
Lankiveil some of my colleagues at work with a love of motorcycles, drinking, and other unwholesome activities have one. So I don't know how stringent they are.
03:57 jayvdb can we _improve_ the wikipedia article about these cards ?
jayvdb
Lankiveil haha
gn basic no offenses against children is the standard
Orderinchaos http://www.checkwwc.wa.gov.au/checkwwc/About+WWC+Check/WWC+Check/What+records+are+checked.htm <-- WA info
Lankiveil okay. So we know that if we want to work with kids, we'll need one.
03:58 Confusing http://www.kids.nsw.gov.au/kids/check/wwccfaq.cfm <-- NSW
Orderinchaos and some states define kids differently
jayvdb do we need two articles ?
jayvdb is this a state law ?
Lankiveil jayvdb: yes.
jayvdb perhaps we write articles about each state law
jayvdb and then the topical page talks about both ?
Orderinchaos it's either 13 or 16 or 18, and different states are in different stages of implementation - it's only been fully implemented in WA and TAS whereas it's in intermediate or beginning stages elsewhere
Lankiveil what about "Child Protection Cards in Queensland" or something?
Lankiveil or "in Australia", rather
Orderinchaos or child protection cards in australia with a subsection on each state
03:59 gn are there the sources to write articles for each state
zero1328 I also mentioned on the mailing list that you can be exempt from the blue card depending on what you're doing
Orderinchaos http://www.careforkids.com.au/articlesv2/article.asp?ID=82
Lankiveil again, depending on what state you're from
Orderinchaos this general article may be useful although could also be out of date
Lankiveil I think we probably should consider setting up a page on our wiki with the relevant guidelines for each state, so we know what we need to do
zero1328 I said that twice, Craig.. <.<
Lankiveil as well as links and various other unencyclopædic material that may come in handy
Orderinchaos sorry was mistaken re tas
04:00 Lankiveil heh, in that case, I second Zero's suggestion
Lankiveil (and volunteer him to actually do it =p )
zero1328 Uh, no thanks
zero1328 We should probably contribute to our own state only; it'll be easier
Lankiveil for reference, here is the QLD requirements: http://www.ccypcg.qld.gov.au/employment/index.html
Orderinchaos almost all states that don't have a system do put all teachers and praccies through CrimTrac anyway, WWC is an extra level though
Lankiveil yeah
04:01 jayvdb the current page should be the Qld page ? everyone agree on that ?
Lankiveil anyway, does anyone envision us teaching under-18s anytime soon anyway?
wittylama not really.
gn wouldnt think so
gn atm we need to focus on the teachers anyway
Lankiveil yes
wittylama although - it is quite possible that if we go in to talk to staff, they might say "stay and talk to the kids at lunch in the library" or somehting.
zero1328 Not anytime soon, focus should be on the teachers and libraries first
04:02 zero1328 maybe the department of education itself, but I dunno
Lankiveil yeah
Lankiveil I think we should contact the relevant department in each state
Orderinchaos and dont forget the tafe's and UTs
Lankiveil letting them know who we (and by that I mean WMAU) are, what we do, and offer to hold talks or whatever
Lankiveil schools and TAFEs come under one dept. in Queensland, so that makes it easy for us
Orderinchaos and what I'd call the non trad education sector (in this state three high schools which specialise in mature age entry and run a lot of random adult education courses)
04:03 Orderinchaos TAFEs strictly speaking are not under a department
zero1328 I know TAFE, but UT?
Orderinchaos the curriculum is but the TAFEs are not
Orderinchaos university of technology
zero1328 right
Orderinchaos basically half way between tafe and uni, they are a uni but run many tafe courses and non standard degrees
04:04 Lankiveil not the case in QLD
Lankiveil DETA runs all the TAFEs in Queensland
MarkHurd An opportunity for the newly elected committee will be to promote WMAU at the various O weeks at Unis.
zero1328 QUT?
Lankiveil trust me, I used to work with them =p
zero1328 *shrug*
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gn thats going to be our issues, the differences in state structures
Lankiveil O Weeks are a fantastic idea
Orderinchaos how would it run the tafes when they're managed by federal legislation and have their own boards and 80% of their funding comes from corporate sector though?
04:05 wittylama I'm very involved in the UNSW o-week programme.
zero1328 Anyway, basically we should be contacting and working with the departments first to build connections.
Orderinchaos (I found out when I applied for a job with one that I'm not a public employee when I joiin)
Lankiveil because, all TAFE staff are (state) public servants, are run by the state education minister, etc etc
wittylama and they are also running a wiki (not MediaWiki) to organise their stuff
zero1328 It'll also clear up the state differences
Lankiveil they have the same ABN even as the state school department
Lankiveil this is in Queensland, I've every confidence it's different in every state
Orderinchaos in WA *no* TAFE staff are public servants - they're employees of the particular College eg West Coast College, Challenger TAFE etc
04:06 zero1328 Since the education systems are different according to state, we might have to work a bit more independantly, and compile it on the chapter wiki somewhere
Orderinchaos the govt doesn't even control them, they only audit them and set standards for them that they are required to meet
Lankiveil yeah, again, we need to be aware of any and all differences
zero1328 Same for blue cards, like I said before
Orderinchaos and they seem to report equally to state and federal much like unis (which are established by state acts but administered by fed)
zero1328 or whatever you call em
04:07 Lankiveil well, we're getting a mite offtopic here, so can we move back to whether we have a strategy for talking to the departments?
gn would it be better then to have people responsible for gather each state information
04:08 Lankiveil yeah, one person per state
Lankiveil have the ctte empower them officially to make contact with the relevant departments,
Lankiveil and move from there
zero1328 That's probably also connected with having a local contact for each state, anyway
Lankiveil aye
Lankiveil we should also pool our resources
04:09 Orderinchaos i'm happy to be the local contact for WA
Lankiveil (slideshows, presentations, etc) between everyone
zero1328 Sounds like something for the AGM, frankly
Orderinchaos i don't think either gnang or mark would mind
Lankiveil yeah, at this stage I don't think we need a great deal of structure
Orderinchaos (it's weird here - we have a strong editing community but just can't seem to interest anyone in WMA ... maybe we need to have some sort of idea for how to get wikipedia editors to join)
gn I be hapy to help OIC if need be
04:10 Orderinchaos ah didn't see you there lol ... that would be great
zero1328 Orderinchaos, basically just more incentive
Lankiveil I'd be happy to do this for Queensland (as mentioned above, I have some contacts in he Education Department up here)
Lankiveil you know, once I'm wearing my WMAU hat and not just being "some guy"
04:11 zero1328 Would that WMAU hat be that bowler hat?
gn pith helmet at ani
Lankiveil yes. Just with a piece of paper with "WMAU" stuck to it.
Lankiveil don't make me go and take a picture of me in my pith helmet with "AN/I" written on it
04:12 MarkHurd OIC: If you meant me as a SA edu coord/contact, unfortunately that's a No, sorry.
04:13 Lankiveil yeah
zero1328 Instead of working it out right now, we should put a shout out on a mailing list, and work it out at the AGM.
Lankiveil we can discuss the actual people who would do it later
zero1328 There might be more qualified or experienced people not here right now
Lankiveil but does that sound like a sound approach, to everyone?
MarkHurd Yep.
gn yeah I thinks its the best way forward
zero1328 yeah
Lankiveil splendid
04:14 Lankiveil okay, this meeting has been going on over two hours now... does anyone have anything they'd like to add on the topic?
Lankiveil if not we'll move onto the next item
zero1328 Activities/direction? We were just talking about it
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04:15 gn since I was in late whats been covered?
Lankiveil I think this was a more general item - not necessarily related to education tours
zero1328 Yeah, I know, but still
Lankiveil gn: everything on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Australia/2008-12-07_meeting except the last item
04:16 Lankiveil also there seems to be a rough consensus for our AGM to be on January 11
04:17 Confusing Well, on that topic, then, I was recently re-contacted by the Canberra Convention Bureau, just asking for a status update. I'll let him know that we've successfully incorporated and are starting to get ourselves organised, but I should I still see if we should pursue a "miniWikimania", for which we could then argue Canberra's case?
04:18 DanielB lolcanberra
DanielB runs.
Lankiveil heh
zero1328 Hm... that's probably also significant enough to revisit in the AGM
Lankiveil this could be my way of convincing Mrs Lankiveil to visit Canberra (I've never been =( )
Lankiveil I fully support a miniWikimania, although I do wonder how many people would fly across the country to attend
wittylama despite the reputation - i'm a big fan of canberra.
04:19 DanielB too. I was being sarcastic
Confusing I'll take that as a positive enough response to pass on thanks guys
wittylama and if you're into [free]culture then C'bra is where it's at.
gn I would be interested in making the trip east for one
DanielB Can we storm up the hill to The Big House?
04:20 gn can we bring tents and set up on the lawns?
Lankiveil I hear there's a really nice hall in the centre of Canberra that we could have the event in. It's underground, and has a big flag on top.
Lankiveil we just have to book it, and throw out any suits that happen to be in the meeting chamber when we get there
wittylama well - seriously, we do know a researcher at the ADFA academy.
Confusing I know the one you're talking about. Looks like the seats are really cushy too.
wittylama he said he'd be willing to try and get us access to their meeting facilite
wittylama *facilities
04:21 zero1328 Just access or as a freebie/discount?
Confusing Cool, although ADFA is a little out of the way. There's also ANU, the Convention Centre (which is fairly new), or there are a few hotels with conference facilities.
Lankiveil there'd have to be a whole bunch of potentially venues in Canberra
wittylama didn't go into details but it was implied freebie - he knows we can't pay.
04:22 gn do we have enough people in canberra to do leg work before hand
Lankiveil and its not like it would be a huge event, I'd be surprised if we had more than say 50 people
zero1328 I probably wouldn't come down there, personally
zero1328 Unless I got a job <.<
zero1328 cough
Lankiveil haha
wittylama in which case you'd be too busy working to come down anyway!
04:23 Confusing gn: I think I'm the only WMAu member in Canberra, but there are quite a few Wikipedians/Wikimedians here who I could probably drag in, and people from Sydney could come down without too much difficulty.
Lankiveil I can only afford to have one WM-au person on my payroll. And Giggy already has that spot. Sorry zero =(
zero1328 Meh, no worries
Lankiveil I think Canberra is nice in that it's a nice central location though
04:24 wittylama sorry, can you explain that Lankiveil - re. payroll?
Lankiveil I mean, Perth or Melbourne would be cool, but either way, it's a long way from someone
zero1328 Canberra's pretty much Convention city
gn Perth wouldnt work atm,
Lankiveil witty: Sorry, just a little joke. Giggy has done some freelance work for my home business, and Zero said he wanted a job. Sadly, as much as I'd love to help, I don't have enough spots to employ anyone else right now.
04:25 zero1328 Perth is pretty inaccessible as it already is
Confusing I agree. Besides the fact that it means 0 travel for me, I think Canberra's a good choice in terms of centrality, education/information culture, and a few other things.
Lankiveil I think we should consider Perth sometime down the track... but not for the first event
gn honest assessment is we have good eds here but not enough worker bees to make something like this work
zero1328 Yeah, Perth will require alot of work, definitely not something soon
04:26 zero1328 Oh yeah.. "Home business"?
Lankiveil I would like to see it rotated about (ie: not in Sydney/Melbourne every year), so Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide and the like all get a shot
04:27 Lankiveil thats if we decide to make it an annual event
04:28 gn yeah it needs to be rotated around, annual would be nice more likely bi-annual
Lankiveil aye
04:29 Confusing I'll be happy when we get it running once.
Lankiveil anyway, I support in principle a mini-conference in Canberra
Lankiveil we can assess after the fact how well it was run, whether it was worth our time, etc
gn I agree in principle to canberra
04:31 Lankiveil rad
werdnum changes nick to werdna|away
<- DanielB has disconnected ("Leaving")
zero1328 So,
zero1328 Anything else?
04:32 zero1328 2.5 hours and running
Lankiveil nope, I'm more or less done
Confusing Nothing more from me.
04:33 zero1328 Well I guess that concludes the excessively long meeting?
wittylama right - see you all around.
Lankiveil okay
wittylama (at the Sydney meetup!_
zero1328 laters
