Wikimedia New York City/Chapters Committee

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The following is a log of an IRC conversation on #wikimedia-chapters primarily between User:Pharos of Wikimedia New York City, User:Whiteknight of Wikimedia Pennsylvania, and User:Notafish (Delphine) of the Chapters committee on the subject of US local chapter organization. User:Mitchazenia of Wikimedia New York City and User:Drork of Wikimedia Israel also participated at a couple of points. The conversation was held on January 9, 2008; times are in UTC.

The most significant proposal from Delphine (made at 20:26): "[N]o formalized group, however, a group nonetheless, with a representative that is somewhat known by WMF, and accredited, and in contact with WMF, and can act as the coordinator between the local community and the official Wikimedia instances. Info goes both ways, ie. to the local group from WMF and from the local group to WMF."


[19:55] <PharosAlexandria> #wikimedia-chapters
[19:56] <delphine> bonjour :-)
[19:56] <delphine> gimme a sec, brb
[19:58] <wknight-away> hello Pharos
[19:58] *** wknight-away est maintenant connu sous le nom de wknight8111.
[19:58] <PharosAlexandria> a hearty hello and bonjour to all
[20:00] <PharosAlexandria> I presume you know Delphine and I have scheduled a chat session to cover US chapters issues
[20:01] <delphine> wknight8111 is Andrew
[20:01] <delphine> Whitworth
[20:01] * delphine never know how many h's
[20:02] <delphine> or where to place them :-)
[20:02] <wknight8111> you spelled it perfectly
[20:02] *** dungodung|away est maintenant connu sous le nom de dungodung.
[20:02] <wknight8111> PA chapter member, and chapcom member
[20:03] <wknight8111> well, "trying to become PA chapter founding member"
[20:03] <delphine> lol Andrew
[20:03] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: any luck in rounding up NYC people?
[20:04] <PharosAlexandria> Probably not, there's one who's on but he's not IRC-savvy - is there a web client he can use or something?
[20:04] <delphine> not that I know of.
[20:04] <delphine> It's an easy enough install in firefox
[20:04] <delphine> and I'm sure there are webclients
[20:04] <wknight8111> wikizine had a java applet that gave you IRC access, I dont know if it can access this channel
[20:05] <PharosAlexandria> If you find anything especially easy to use, send it to User:Ssilvers
[20:06] <wknight8111> no, Wikizine does not have access to this channel
[20:06] <delphine> wknight8111: I was trying the same :/
[20:07] <delphine> ok, shall we start then?
[20:08] <PharosAlexandria> Yes, let's start
[20:08] <wknight8111> yes, i'm ready
[20:08] <delphine> ok, I don't want to make this a definitive thing
[20:09] <delphine> ie. we decide what the next 10 yers are gong to be
[20:09] <delphine> but I want it to be a smart useful point of entry into the delicate matter of "US chapters"
[20:09] <delphine> :D
[20:09] <PharosAlexandria> Fair enough. I'll advertize more thoroughly later.
[20:09] <PharosAlexandria> I think US chapters might work better as informal 'committees' of WMF, rather than separate organizations
[20:09] <delphine> so I propose that PharosAlexandria, you ask whatever questions you have in mind
[20:10] <delphine> and then we take it from there.
[20:10] <delphine> OK.
[20:10] <delphine> what do you mean by "informal committees"?
[20:10] <delphine> ie. do you have an example?
[20:11] <PharosAlexandria> That WMF would recognize that chapters exist in certain regions, and that they have volunteer advisory/organizational role
[20:11] <wknight8111> "official" recognition of status would go a long way, I can agree with that
[20:12] <PharosAlexandria> and that there is one person in WMF who can 'approve' or 'disapprove' projects from the US xhapters
[20:12] <delphine> ok
[20:12] <wknight8111> the PA chapter was pursuing non-profit status, so we aren't necessarily interested in being "informal", however
[20:12] <delphine> I blame myself for that too ;-)
[20:12] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: I think it would help if we started with the terms.
[20:13] <delphine> I think we need to agree at some point that a "chapter" *is* a geographically based organisation, national.
[20:13] <delphine> of course we need to refine the whole thing
[20:14] <delphine> but if we agree to stop saying "chapters" for organisational structures that are not chapters and potentially can't be, it might help ;-)
[20:14] <delphine> we (ie. in the past meeting with ED and board) thought of the word "affiliates"
[20:15] <PharosAlexandria> I agree that they should be geographical, but I don't think we need a specific legal jurisdiction because they wouldn't have a status under US law, only under WMF bureaucracy
[20:15] <delphine> yes.
[20:15] <delphine> I mean, the big question we yet have to answer is
[20:15] <delphine> is WMF the US chapter?
[20:15] <delphine> :D
[20:15] <delphine> I mean, formally, it is.
[20:15] <wknight8111> I'm still convinced that a "state" or a "province" can have a chapter just like a "nation" can
[20:15] <delphine> ie. it operates on a national level.
[20:15] <delphine> it's a non profit.
[20:16] <delphine> it is legally based in a country.
[20:16] <wknight8111> in the US, nonprofits are incorporated in a particular state
[20:16] <delphine> wknight8111: yes, and no :-)
[20:16] <PharosAlexandria> Technically, WMF is the US chapter, but it can't do the things that other chapters do in terms of on-the-ground-organization
[20:16] <wknight8111> I prefer the distinction "national chapter"/"Local Chapter" as opposed to "Chapter"/"Affiliate"
[20:16] <delphine> wknight8111: yes, but they seek recognition in all states when their activities are cross country
[20:16] <PharosAlexandria> I wouldn't really have a problem with "affiliate"
[20:17] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: you have an excellent point here.
[20:17] <delphine> ie. the problem being the on-the-ground organisation
[20:17] <delphine> today
[20:17] <wknight8111> The WMF has avoided calling itself a "USA chapter" in the past. it's a good analogy, but they aren't playing the part
[20:17] <delphine> the WMF does not allow for any kind of formal volunteer structure outside of its office
[20:18] <delphine> wknight8111: how aren't they playing the part?
[20:18] <PharosAlexandria> does not allow for any kind of formal volunteer structure outside of its office"
[20:18] <wknight8111> like you said: no formal volunteer structure. They also aren't having a hands-on management role
[20:18] <PharosAlexandria> -which I think is a mistake
[20:19] <delphine> And I tend to agree with you.
[20:19] <delphine> both that is.
[20:19] <delphine> :D
[20:19] <PharosAlexandria> I understand why they don't want to give too much authority to volunteers
[20:19] <wknight8111> I prefer to think of WMF as not a chapter, and that opens the possibility for a separate USA chapter, or even state chapters like PA and NY
[20:20] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: very frankly
[20:20] <delphine> I don't believe it is a question of "want" at this stage
[20:20] <delphine> it just didn't happen that way.
[20:20] <PharosAlexandria> But if the volunteers are organized as 'advisory' committees, they wouldn't have final authority
[20:20] <delphine> wknight8111: my take is that the Foundation needs to decide whether it operates as a US chapter, or if it does not.
[20:21] <wknight8111> exactly. the WMF needs to decide before we can do anything
[20:21] <PharosAlexandria> I don't think they really can operate as a US chapter on-the-ground without a lot of paid staff
[20:21] <DrorK-IL> if I may interrupt, why should the WMF act as a US chapter? Wouldn't it damage the chapter coordination through the Foundation?
[20:22] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: I don't agree. All it takes (at least in my mind) for a US chapter to get organised
[20:22] <delphine> is one person willing to organise the diverse groups across the country
[20:22] <wknight8111> Drork-IL, I dont think it would damage it
[20:22] <wknight8111> it's still not ideal, however
[20:22] <delphine> DrorK-IL: we are still having a problem with semantics
[20:22] <delphine> actually
[20:22] <delphine> let me try and explain my vision
[20:23] <delphine> forget about the "names"
[20:23] <DrorK-IL> delphine: even on the psychological level it shoud be called a US chapter
[20:23] <PharosAlexandria> delphine, I don't think there are that many volunteers alk across the US
[20:23] <delphine> an ideal Wikimedia organisation would be structured along those lines:
[20:23] <delphine> A) a central international organisation, which we will call Wikimedia International for the sake of argument
[20:24] <delphine> B) a bunch of NATIONAL chapters, in all countries of the world, including the US and China (for good measure)
[20:24] <delphine> in an ideal world
[20:24] <delphine> where Wikimedia International is situated
[20:24] <delphine> is totally irrelevant
[20:24] <delphine> ie. the UNESCO HQ are in Paris
[20:25] <delphine> but there is a French section of the UNESCO
[20:25] <delphine> ie. Greenpeace INternational is in the NEtherlands
[20:25] <delphine> but there is a NL chapter of Greenpeace
[20:25] <delphine> etc.
[20:25] <DrorK-IL> delphine: yes, that's what I had in mind
[20:25] <delphine> so the question we have to day
[20:25] <delphine> to soleve
[20:25] <delphine> *solve
[20:25] <delphine> I mean, not that we're going to solve htis
[20:25] <delphine> :D
[20:26] <delphine> but in my opinion, the question that we are faced with is:
[20:26] <delphine> 1) if WMF is *not* a US chapter, then who is?
[20:26] <delphine> 2) if WMF *is* a US chapter, then how do we integrate local sections in that?
[20:26] <delphine> the issue I see today
[20:27] <delphine> is that I can't imagine that this question of *what exactly is the status of the WMF in the US* as being answered in the next three days
[20:27] <delphine> or weeks
[20:27] <delphine> or even months ;-)
[20:27] <delphine> so
[20:27] <wknight8111> In answer to (1), I think the USA situation should be allowed to self-organize. State chapters where there are many volunteers on the ground, and a national chapter to cover everybody else
[20:28] <PharosAlexandria> I don't think we should agonize too much over whether WMF is the "official" US chapter
[20:28] <wknight8111> By allowing smaller localized chapters, members will be able to interact more, and will be able to "do" more in their communities
[20:28] <delphine> wknight8111: but look
[20:28] <delphine> PharosAlexandria made it clear
[20:28] <delphine> that the NYC people were ready to invest time and start up activities
[20:28] <delphine> without any kind of formal structure.
[20:28] <delphine> or did I understand that wrong?
[20:29] <DrorK-IL> In my opinion, in any case, do not present the WMF as a US chapter, it would look bad, even if it can be handled practically
[20:29] <PharosAlexandria> Yes, but I think it will be a problem down the line
[20:29] <wknight8111> right, but this is a perfect example of self-organization. These people are getting together in NY, not all over the US
[20:29] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: to me it is a problem down the line
[20:29] <PharosAlexandria> I'm in discussions with the Brooklyn Museum right now, the 2nd biggest art museum in NYC
[20:30] <delphine> if NO-ONE on the Wikimedia "official-type-people-batch" actually acknoledge that there are people in NYC that are potetnially acting on Foundation business
[20:30] <delphine> whether they come to do it from their own accord
[20:30] <PharosAlexandria> If we make a deal, will that have to be passed by a vote of the central WMF board?
[20:30] <delphine> or asked by the WMF
[20:30] <delphine> wknight8111: ahhhhh I think I see your problem.
[20:30] <delphine> now I think I understand.
[20:31] <wknight8111> See? this is exactly the problem. We have NY local people trying to act in the community, but can't act on behalf of the WMF because they arent "official"
[20:31] <wknight8111> we could lose out on a partnership with the brooklyn museum because we can't get the terminology correct
[20:31] <delphine> wknight8111: never ever have I thought that a central US chapter would act in lieu and place of the local people
[20:31] <delphine> that's not my point.
[20:31] <wknight8111> ok
[20:31] <delphine> A central US-chapter-like organisation
[20:31] <delphine> would simply be there to give the necessary oks
[20:31] <delphine> ie.
[20:32] <delphine> I can very well imagine a US chapter based in FL
[20:32] <delphine> that's not active per se in PA
[20:32] <wknight8111> now that's something that would be great, an organization that could just give us a thumbs-up when we have a deal in the works
[20:32] <delphine> or NYC
[20:32] <delphine> or that is active there ONLY because there is a "local section of Wikimedia"
[20:32] <delphine> hosted and run by volunteers
[20:32] <PharosAlexandria> I would favor one person designated by WMF to give necessary OKs
[20:32] <delphine> who ahave a certain degree of autonomy etc.
[20:32] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: exactly
[20:33] <delphine> the idea being
[20:33] <delphine> that even full fledged chapters are not given any kind of authority
[20:33] <delphine> to conduct Foundation business
[20:33] <delphine> :D
[20:33] --> Mitchazenia a rejoint ce canal (n=43544b3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-d45de212e4eeb7d9).
[20:33] <delphine> ok, wknight8111so to summarize
[20:34] <PharosAlexandria> Hi Mitch, and welcome
[20:34] <delphine> I don't imagine a US chapter as being some kind of mega centralized organsiation
[20:34] <delphine> that does all the work
[20:34] <delphine> hello mitch :-)
[20:34] <delphine> on the contrary
[20:34] <Mitchazenia> hey (representing NYC)
[20:34] <wknight8111> There exist groups of people, localized to a single state or region, that are organized/organizing to do volunteer work that will directly benefit WMF projects
[20:34] <delphine> I see a national us chapter as a coordinating center
[20:35] <delphine> for those volunteer work
[20:35] <wknight8111> These people are localized, they do not need nor want national-level organization. All they need is "permission" and "recognition"
[20:35] <PharosAlexandria> That's OK with me, but I still think there should be -some- recognition of local volunteer groups
[20:35] <delphine> exactly
[20:35] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: I agree completely
[20:35] <delphine> I mean we can imagine the same kind of recognition, delegation of authority
[20:36] <delphine> for strictly non-profit things, there are a group of people who can walk around with WM business cards and a WM address for example
[20:36] <delphine> when it comes to business, they have to follow a process of some kind
[20:36] <delphine> for content partnerships, they can just go ahead
[20:36] <delphine> etc.
[20:37] <delphine> you can have designated agents or something
[20:37] <PharosAlexandria> that would be great, from my end
[20:37] <delphine> ie. PharosAlexandria is the guy you go to in NYC who gives you accreditiation for representing Wikimedia
[20:37] <wknight8111> Within the year there will be at least one locally-based registered non-profit doing work to benefit WMF projects. Whether they are working together with the WMF or not should be a matter of great concern
[20:37] <delphine> and he knows that if the request tackles that this, or something else, then he needs to sek a higher level of permission
[20:38] <wknight8111> the WMF should be striving to form partnerships with all such organizations, regardless of the geography
[20:38] <delphine> wknight8111: which organisation are you talking about?
[20:38] * delphine is confused now
[20:39] <wknight8111> i'm mostly speculating and forecasting. But us PA boys are working on a non-profit group. We were going to call it "Wikimedia Pennsylvania" or whatever, but if we can't use that name we will call it something else
[20:39] <PharosAlexandria> In the case of a non-profit in PA, we could make the nonprofit the 'designated agent
[20:40] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: YAY
[20:40] <delphine> that's like, brilliant.
[20:40] <delphine> I mean, seriously, why not?
[20:40] <delphine> Wikis in PA, for example, will be the designated agent for PA stuff.
[20:41] <delphine> Andrew, how critical is it to you that WM PA is a registered non-profit?
[20:41] <delphine> I mean, where is your money going to go?
[20:41] <wknight8111> at the moment, it's just a long-term plan. There are a lot of details to flesh out. But johnny and I have a lot of ideas for outreach/fundraising/etc that are going to require non-profit status
[20:41] <delphine> (btw, I realize that I was the one who pusehd you onto Wikimedia Pennsylvania to start with...)
[20:42] <delphine> I see.
[20:42] <delphine> see, the thing is this
[20:42] <PharosAlexandria> Could WMF host subsidiary bank accounts for local groups under their nonprofit status?
[20:43] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: in the longer run, and providing it makes sense, why not.
[20:43] <delphine> the question always being, who is the money ultimately for
[20:43] <wknight8111> Wikimedia DE received a hardware donation that basically turned into the toolserver. What if Wikimedia PA could pull off the same kind of thing? What if we got bigger donations? we need nonprofit status to make the taxes less of a nightmare
[20:44] <delphine> I mean, very frankly, that is the main problem I see with a local US "non-profit" today.
[20:44] <delphine> wknight8111: the difference being, that there is already a Wikimedia entity working nation wide in the US
[20:44] <delphine> which can receive donations
[20:44] <delphine> even in PA
[20:44] <delphine> that's the trick
[20:45] <delphine> and that's why ultimately, whichever way we're going, we need to solve the exact status of WMF in the US
[20:45] <delphine> if it's a US chapter, as WM DE is a Germany chapter
[20:45] <wknight8111> right, but I can jump into my car and drive down to the IBM building and talk with people here
[20:45] <delphine> then WMF NEEDS to think about regional coordination
[20:45] <wknight8111> I can go to schools and colleges and businesses
[20:45] <PharosAlexandria> If the WMF hosted a subsidiary account, the money could be considered 'project-specific money', like how the Red Cross raises accounts for particular disasters
[20:45] <delphine> which entails, as you said, a bank account, etc.
[20:45] <delphine> if not, then I can imagine various organisations.
[20:46] <wknight8111> My summary is this: WMF needs regional coordination, and we already have regional groups trying to self-organize into chapters. I say we just let it happen
[20:46] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: yes.
[20:46] <delphine> wknight8111: I am happy with your first part
[20:46] <delphine> not the second part of your sentence ;-)
[20:46] <wknight8111> the WMF just needs to not get in the way, the people will do the resty
[20:46] <delphine> thing is
[20:46] <delphine> ok, let's play devil's advocate here.
[20:47] <delphine> Friends of wikis in PA, starts in PA, as an independant organisation
[20:47] <delphine> for some reason or other, they fail to get approval from WM International (I'm not saying Foundation on purpose here)
[20:47] <delphine> but they manage to hook some great donor
[20:47] <delphine> who is ready to give them 3mills
[20:48] <delphine> make that 30 000
[20:48] <delphine> lol
[20:48] <delphine> i hintk the Wmf would be crazy to refuse 3 mills
[20:48] <delphine> so 30,000
[20:48] <wknight8111> okay
[20:49] <delphine> but WMF is not happy, because basically, FoWinPA is fundraising on their terrain
[20:49] <delphine> and decides not to accept those 30000
[20:49] <delphine> except if it comes directly from donor
[20:49] <delphine> to them
[20:49] <delphine> this is a little tortuous
[20:49] <delphine> but still.
[20:49] <delphine> My fear with "let's just let it happen"
[20:50] <delphine> is that we come to such questions and problems.
[20:50] <PharosAlexandria> noone can stop Friends of wikis PA from being founded, and donors giving to it
[20:51] <PharosAlexandria> the only question is whether it's approved as a WMF affiliate or not
[20:51] <-- DrorK-IL a quitté ce serveur ("Leaving").
[20:51] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: yes, I agree very much.
[20:51] <delphine> But the more outlets we provide, the better.
[20:51] <delphine> I would hate for the PA boys to be founding their FofWinPA
[20:51] <delphine> and then hear from Wikimedia
[20:51] <delphine> thank you, but no, thank you.
[20:51] <delphine> if-you-see-what-I-mean
[20:52] <delphine> again, I'm playing devil's advocate here
[20:52] <delphine> but knowing the organisation
[20:52] <delphine> ie. WMF
[20:52] <delphine> it might not say yes
[20:52] <delphine> it might not say no
[20:52] <delphine> it might jsut "let it happen"
[20:53] <delphine> but then, as soon as things get rolling
[20:53] <delphine> I"d hate our FofWinPA to get blown
[20:54] <delphine> in short, I think, Pharos, that as long as you in NYC
[20:54] <PharosAlexandria> FofWinPA could do some good things without official recognition
[20:54] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: oh yes, I have no doubt about this.
[20:54] <wknight8111> this is true, we could and we are already starting to do good things
[20:54] <delphine> :D
[20:54] <wknight8111> without non-profit status, our fiances are tied, however. Without finances, we can't do *more*
[20:54] <delphine> thing is, as soon as the "official" Wikimedia entity says "well, we don't like those guys"
[20:54] <delphine> well, they will have a harder time
[20:55] <wknight8111> it's up to us to make the WMF like us then. We just have to try harder to be better and more valuable to the organization
[20:55] <delphine> yep
[20:55] <delphine> but on the whole
[20:55] <delphine> I like the following path
[20:55] <delphine> that we can propose
[20:55] <delphine> ie. 2 options
[20:55] <delphine> 1) no formalized group
[20:56] <delphine> however, a group nonetheless, with a representative
[20:56] <delphine> that is somewhat known by WMF
[20:56] <delphine> and accreditited
[20:56] <delphine> and in contact with WMF
[20:56] <delphine> and can act as the coordinator between the local community and the official Wikimedia instances
[20:56] <delphine> info goes both ways
[20:57] <delphine> ie. to the local group from WMF and from the local group to WMF
[20:57] <wknight8111> Okay, i like option (1). What's option (2)?
[20:57] <delphine> 2) potentially, when it's really needed, an organisation
[20:57] <PharosAlexandria> i like option (1) as well
[20:57] <delphine> that works as that representative for Wikimedia
[20:58] <delphine> mind you, my too options are not mutually exclusive
[20:58] <delphine> they are complementary
[20:58] <delphine> *two options
[20:58] <delphine> but the normal path would be from 1)
[20:58] <delphine> to 2) if it makes any kind of sense.
[20:59] <delphine> Knowing that personally, in the longer run
[20:59] <wknight8111> so you're talking like an "evaluation" period before becoming a full-fledged chapter-ish organization?
[20:59] <delphine> I would like to see a central authority 'US chapter", which delegates to local groups (of volunteers for example) the task of promoting/fundraising etc. in a certain state
[21:00] <wknight8111> I agree
[21:00] <delphine> wknight8111: no, I would avoid "independant organisations in the bigger countries"
[21:00] <delphine> altogether
[21:00] <delphine> India is not doing it
[21:00] <delphine> Canada never even thought about it
[21:00] <wknight8111> okay, so you're just talking about the US situation?
[21:00] <wknight8111> Because I really think canada should have thought about it, considering the language barriers
[21:01] <delphine> no, I am talking about the idea situation. At this stage, I am left without a real solution, because the ONE crucual question is still unanswered.
[21:01] <delphine> wknight8111: see, but they haven't
[21:01] <delphine> at all.
[21:01] <delphine> However, Argentina has thought about it the other way around
[21:01] <delphine> ie. They have Wikimedia Argentian
[21:01] <delphine> Argentina
[21:01] <delphine> and have put in their bylaws the possibilities of "local sections"
[21:01] <delphine> again
[21:02] <delphine> however you turn the thing
[21:02] <wknight8111> I like local "Sections
[21:02] <delphine> as long as WMF does not find its real place
[21:02] <wknight8111> I would be happy enough as a "section" and not as a "chapter"
[21:02] <wknight8111> although i set my sights pretty high
[21:02] <PharosAlexandria> A "'US chapter" should be a low priority in my opinion, other than getting one person at WMF to supervise the local US chapters. we don't need more than that.
[21:02] <delphine> we won't be able to answer the fundamental questions
[21:02] <delphine> in an ideal world
[21:02] <delphine> there could of course be a local section of Wikimedia in PA
[21:03] <delphine> that would benefit the non-profit status and standing of the FOundation
[21:03] <delphine> it would be operated by you PA guys
[21:03] <delphine> and as soon as you get money, you just get money to do your thing
[21:03] <delphine> in PA or elsewhere
[21:03] <delphine> and the Foundation knows
[21:03] <delphine> that it cna count of you to animate PA
[21:03] <delphine> in all sense of the term
[21:04] <delphine> that would be my preferred thing
[21:04] <delphine> rather than a full-fledged independant organisation. And that is what the Argentinians have thought about.
[21:04] <wknight8111> I agree with Pharos, a USA chapter is really unnecessary
[21:05] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: again, it depends what you put under the words "chapter"
[21:05] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: the problem being the following, and now we're going abit further from the subject at hand.
[21:05] <delphine> today, WMF funds itself with donations.
[21:05] <delphine> and WMF hosts the project
[21:05] <delphine> more than what.. 80% of the donations come from the US.
[21:06] <delphine> if we start having "US Chapters", that seek money on thier territory
[21:06] <wknight8111> and local on-the-ground volunteer organizations can raise more donations
[21:06] <delphine> agreed.
[21:06] <wknight8111> that is, WMF PA can donate X% of it's income to the WMF
[21:06] <delphine> but here you go
[21:06] <delphine> we're talking about X% income.
[21:06] <delphine> not 100%
[21:07] <wknight8111> but it's income that the WMF would not have ordinarily, because they dont have an on-the-ground presence in PA
[21:07] <PharosAlexandria> Whatever role a "US Chapter" should do, WMF is already doing. Let's not care too much about the names of things.
[21:07] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: let us say taht for NYC
[21:08] <delphine> which was the purpose of this meeting
[21:08] <delphine> we have option 1)
[21:08] <delphine> to present to the chapcom and eventually the board
[21:08] <delphine> and that we can try an ddevelop on
[21:09] <PharosAlexandria> I support that 100%. Neither I nor anyone else in NYC is trying to found a non-profit.
[21:10] <delphine> good.
[21:10] <delphine> Then I propose to write a recap email on this option for one
[21:11] <delphine> that you can then discuss and maybe you guys can come up with the things you'd need to "operate" as a group of friend of WM
[21:11] <delphine> or something
[21:12] <PharosAlexandria> good.
[21:13] <Mitchazenia> Maybe the members of the chapter get together and write the letter?
[21:13] <delphine> Mitchazenia: which chapter?
[21:13] <delphine> ;-)
[21:13] <Mitchazenia> NYC
[21:14] <delphine> we need to lose the "chapter" terminology I think
[21:15] <PharosAlexandria> BTW, Mitch, do you have any other reactions? I know you arrived a little after we started...
[21:15] <delphine> and yes, the members of your group should come up with it
[21:15] <delphine> that is exactly what I meant
[21:15] <PharosAlexandria> Wel work on it on Sunday at our real-life meeting
[21:16] <Mitchazenia> Pharos: Probably won't be there Sunday unless my thing on the 26th gets a no
[21:16] <PharosAlexandria> Mitch: OK, I'll be there. Any points you want me to raise on your behalf?
[21:17] <Mitchazenia> It'll take me a little while, can I give you details tommorrow?
[21:17] <PharosAlexandria> Absolutely
[21:17] <PharosAlexandria> Delphibe, "chapter", "affiliate", "section" or any other terminology are all fine to me
[21:18] <delphine> :D
[21:18] <delphine> PharosAlexandria: I know, that's why I like you :D
[21:19] <PharosAlexandria> Thanks, sorry about "delphibe"
[21:19] <PharosAlexandria> :)
[21:20] <Mitchazenia> I'll keep you updated, Pharos about my status, heck, maybe my dad'll take me to both
[21:20] * Mitchazenia wishes there was a way to be interactive at the meeting from home
[21:21] <PharosAlexandria> Hopefully David Shankbone can make an audio recording.
[21:21] <PharosAlexandria> BTW, Delphine, can you e-mail me a log of this whole conversation (I'm not IRC-savvy)