Fundraising meeting, September 2005

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We will have a meeting to discuss fundraising and what lessons we have learned in this latest drive that we can use to improve the next drive. Meeting to be in #wikimedia-meeting on IRC, September 17, 18:00 UTC.

Log of the meeting is here

Meeting logs will likely be posted publicly.

Here are some suggestions for improving our next fund drive:

  • Direct credit card payments
    • should accept all major currencies to avoid bank fees
  • Explaining one doesn't need PayPal to donate via PayPal
  • Sponsors for matching donations
    • Give companies chance to sponsor particular days; they match totals for that day
  • Directed donations? A good or a bad thing? Debate is open.
  • Finding better ways to allow donations in countries where credit cards are not widely used
  • Plan and schedule the next fund drive well in advance so we can better prepare for it
    • detailled budget on which the fundraising drive is based
    • joint budget chapters/Foundation
    • detailled explanation what was done with the money from the last fund drive
  • Plan publicity and PR for the drive
    • contact media: press release before the drive
    • trot Jimmy out before some TV cameras and make him do his thing
  • better timing. It is hard to raise money while certain offers (google) are not activated and others (yahoo) are not done.
  • analyze donations to see what percentage of total was from large donations, and what percentage from small donations; see if this indicates if we should focus on one or the other.
  • install new servers before the fundraiser so the site isn't slow when we are trying to get people to come give us money
  • ask for more money next time; I don't recall ever failing to meet our goal in a fund drive, which suggests we've been setting the goals too low.

Log of the time I was there, as requested by Anthere on IRC

        • BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 17 14:21:41 2005
Sep 17 14:21:41 -->	You are now talking on #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 14:21:41 ---	Topic for #wikimedia-meeting is Fundraising meeting - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_meeting%2C_September_2005
Sep 17 14:21:41 ---	Topic for #wikimedia-meeting set by TimShell at Sat Sep 17 13:56:10 2005
Sep 17 14:21:57 <TerryFoote>	We get about 5 times as many donations during fundraisers than when there isn't one.
Sep 17 14:22:06 <MikeSnow>	I got an email once from a guy interested in possibly doing donation matching through his company
Sep 17 14:22:20 <TerryFoote>	If we can get a steady stream of donations from teh general public, that will eventually add up to a lot of contributions.
Sep 17 14:22:28 <MikeSnow>	Terry: Only 5 times? I thought it would be a lot more
Sep 17 14:22:28 <dannyisme>	can all donation matching possibilities be collected
Sep 17 14:22:43 <dannyisme>	i want to contact them individually and see if they agree to do it
Sep 17 14:22:44 <mav>	there is already a donation link in the sidebar
Sep 17 14:22:48 <TimShell>	Collected from where ?
Sep 17 14:22:51 <MikeSnow>	Developing an ongoing donations stream is definitely important
Sep 17 14:22:52 <mav>	what not this year?!
Sep 17 14:22:56 <mav>	having a short drive the first or second week of Dec is a must, IMO
Sep 17 14:22:59 <dannyisme>	well, MikeSnow has one
Sep 17 14:23:00 <mav>	two words : Gift cards
Sep 17 14:23:04 <dannyisme>	i am sure there are others
Sep 17 14:23:06 <mav>	danny ; that only really matters for nations in which we have tax exempt status
Sep 17 14:23:12 <mav>	our average is about 20 bucks
Sep 17 14:23:18 <mav>	exactly
Sep 17 14:23:24 <mav>	we can try
Sep 17 14:23:27 <dannyisme>	we have tax exempt status in the US and Germany
Sep 17 14:23:28 <mav>	damn the wiki is slow...
Sep 17 14:23:32 <dannyisme>	that is big enough
Sep 17 14:23:40 <dannyisme>	those are our two biggest donor countries
Sep 17 14:23:48 <pakaran>	that's about 6% of the world population
Sep 17 14:23:56 <innocence>	is it clear how much the german foundation can do with their money?
Sep 17 14:24:02 <dannyisme>	what percentage of the wealth, pakaran
Sep 17 14:24:08 <pakaran>	dannyisme, uhm, more
Sep 17 14:24:09 <Angela>	Innocence: not really.
Sep 17 14:24:14 <dannyisme>	i think they are investigating that
Sep 17 14:24:20 <innocence>	pak: that doesn't really matter when the other 94% doesn't donate anything :)
Sep 17 14:24:30 <TimShell>	Let's stay focused
Sep 17 14:24:36 <TimShell>	Corporations matching donations
Sep 17 14:24:46 <TimShell>	Should we approach them ?
Sep 17 14:24:52 <dannyisme>	yes
Sep 17 14:24:54 <TimShell>	Should we wait for them to talk to us ?
Sep 17 14:24:55 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: Absolutely.
Sep 17 14:25:01 <TimShell>	Who should we approach ?
Sep 17 14:25:06 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: I'll do it.
Sep 17 14:25:06 <TimShell>	Should we have a standard appeal ?
Sep 17 14:25:21 <TimShell>	Should we go to Exxon and GE ?
Sep 17 14:25:22 <TerryFoote>	I can give it a start anyway.
Sep 17 14:25:27 <TimShell>	They have buttloads of money
Sep 17 14:25:35 <TimShell>	But they probably have no idea who we are
Sep 17 14:25:39 <TerryFoote>	I'm talking with a guy from Coca Cola.
Sep 17 14:25:46 <TerryFoote>	Actually we've been playing phone tag.
Sep 17 14:25:50 <TerryFoote>	But they're a good start.
Sep 17 14:26:06 <TerryFoote>	Exxon and GE I think are too staid and old school.
Sep 17 14:26:08 <TimShell>	Are people going to whine about evil corporations sponsoring the fund drive ?
Sep 17 14:26:18 <Angela>	I think making a list of which companies have already expressed an interest in donation matching would be a better start than just approaching random companies.
Sep 17 14:26:27 <TerryFoote>	Somebody is always going to whine about something.
Sep 17 14:26:28 <pakaran>	TimShell, people are going to whine whatever you do.  
Sep 17 14:26:39 <TimShell>	Damn people
Sep 17 14:26:40 <pakaran>	trust me, I've closed VFDs before
Sep 17 14:26:45 <TimShell>	bunch of whiners
Sep 17 14:26:51 <TerryFoote>	We should go to Silicon Valley companies.
Sep 17 14:26:59 <innocence>	Tim: just tell them that they can't be evil if they support WP
Sep 17 14:27:04 <TerryFoote>	They have plenty of money, and will alreayd know of Wikipedia.
Sep 17 14:27:09 <TimShell>	Ok, Terry Foote is going to approach hip tech companies
Sep 17 14:27:12 <dannyisme>	terry, is there a database in place of everyone who has donated to us?
Sep 17 14:27:19 <TerryFoote>	Yes.
Sep 17 14:27:23 <dannyisme>	excellent
Sep 17 14:27:28 <TerryFoote>	Not exactly the most professional database.
Sep 17 14:27:36 <TimShell>	Danny and maybe mav? can help produce a standard pitch
Sep 17 14:27:36 <TerryFoote>	Snail mail donations that is.
Sep 17 14:27:40 <TerryFoote>	That's all I ahve.
Sep 17 14:27:44 <dannyisme>	but we have the skeleton in place
Sep 17 14:27:47 <dannyisme>	ok
Sep 17 14:27:48 <TerryFoote>	Oh yes.
Sep 17 14:28:09 <TimShell>	My idea was to let corporations sponsor specific days
Sep 17 14:28:10 <dannyisme>	good, it will be a good job for an intern to update teh database with electronic donations
Sep 17 14:28:14 <dannyisme>	divide it into categories
Sep 17 14:28:22 <dannyisme>	and pitch to the donors again
Sep 17 14:28:30 <TimShell>	If we raise $20,000 one day, Google would match that
Sep 17 14:28:35 <mav>	we are trying to get EU-wide tax exempt status directly
Sep 17 14:28:35 <TimShell>	Sun would match the next day's
Sep 17 14:28:39 <TimShell>	etc.?
Sep 17 14:28:41 <mav>	somebody from Google wants to know our EIN so she can set up matching funds
Sep 17 14:28:45 <mav>	Angela ; I'm working on such a lsit
Sep 17 14:28:50 <dannyisme>	soufron said it is very difficult
Sep 17 14:28:51 <Angela>	If you're going to start storing this information on donors, you should add something to the privacy policy.
Sep 17 14:28:59 <mav>	TimShell great idea
Sep 17 14:29:00 <dannyisme>	yes
Sep 17 14:29:01 <TimShell>	Well, if Google wants to match every day I guess that's fine
Sep 17 14:29:01 <Angela>	I don't think it's mentioned at all now.
Sep 17 14:29:20 <Angela>	I think the idea is that they match the donations from their own staff.
Sep 17 14:29:25 <Angela>	Not all the donations.
Sep 17 14:29:27 <TimShell>	Ok
Sep 17 14:29:33 <mav>	Angela ; not yet
Sep 17 14:29:52 <mav>	we need to contact their HR dept and give them our EIN
Sep 17 14:29:52 <TimShell>	So my idea, which mav insists is great, will be to offer days up to corporations
Sep 17 14:30:08 <mav>	I *really* like that idea
Sep 17 14:30:10 <TimShell>	and they can sponsor those days, and get their logo on the donations page for that day
Sep 17 14:30:14 <Angela>	Companies like Google already offer this. We just need to be on their list of supported charities, and then their own staff can apply for the match when they donate.
Sep 17 14:30:16 <innocence>	hmm, do we really get that many donations from google employees?
Sep 17 14:30:27 <dannyisme>	do we mind giving them their logo in return?
Sep 17 14:30:33 <dannyisme>	or is that considered advertising
Sep 17 14:30:59 <TimShell>	If we are letting them sponsor the day, we have to let people know today is Google Day, or whatever
Sep 17 14:31:00 <Angela>	They can't have logos on Wikipedia, but on the Foundation site, that is already done.
Sep 17 14:31:00 <mav>	TimShell ; not just the donation page, I'd like to also do this on the sitwide message of each wiki
Sep 17 14:31:06 <pakaran>	ok
Sep 17 14:31:24 <dannyisme>	that is advertising, mav
Sep 17 14:31:26 <Angela>	mav: you want to advertise them on Wikipedia itself?
Sep 17 14:31:28 <dannyisme>	very problematic
Sep 17 14:31:28 <mav>	if they are sponsoring a day, I say we mention that on the site message
Sep 17 14:31:33 <TimShell>	We can tell the corporate donors something general, like they will be mentioned prominently
Sep 17 14:31:36 <pakaran>	i was going to say, I would not want to see an article on Wikipedia with a huge banner on the top "XYZ Inc is the Official Bubble Gum Manufacturer of Wikipedia"
Sep 17 14:31:48 <mav>	we would not be adveristing them 
Sep 17 14:32:03 <dannyisme>	personally, i would be very wary of, say Today is sponsored by Haliburton
Sep 17 14:32:05 <TerryFoote>	But would it be perceived as advertising, that's the question.
Sep 17 14:32:08 <MikeSnow>	Smells like advertising
Sep 17 14:32:15 <Angela>	We can't do that. People objected to mentioning Red Cross in the sitenotice. There's no way they're going to accept ads for profit-making companies in there.
Sep 17 14:32:27 <dannyisme>	i agree with angela
Sep 17 14:32:35 <TimShell>	If it were on the donations page then that should be ok, right ?
Sep 17 14:32:48 <dannyisme>	yes, but not on each wiki
Sep 17 14:32:49 <pakaran>	Angela, and if we wanted ads for profit making companies, we wouldn't need sponsorship, we could just sign up with some banner ad agency
Sep 17 14:32:52 <pakaran>	or textad or whatever
Sep 17 14:33:01 <pakaran>	which is something i would personally be strongly opposed to
Sep 17 14:33:07 <TimShell>	And on the site wide notice, maybe a text only message: "Today's donations will be matched by Halliburton"
Sep 17 14:33:11 <Angela>	I don't see why it can't just be on a separate page. It seems more likely to put people off donating to have company logos all over the donations page.
Sep 17 14:33:27 <dannyisme>	without making a political statement of my own beliefs, what would it look like if the NRA put their logo up
Sep 17 14:33:34 <TimShell>	Terry, find out what these corporations want
Sep 17 14:33:38 <pakaran>	Angela, like a sponsors page, where you can pay 20K or whatever to have your logo for a year?
Sep 17 14:33:39 <TimShell>	when you start soliciting them
Sep 17 14:33:44 <TimShell>	and we can decide later
Sep 17 14:33:52 <TimShell>	Maybe they will be happy with a press release
Sep 17 14:33:59 <Angela>	Pakaran: yes, we did this for the Wikimania sponsors etc.
Sep 17 14:34:03 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: They'll want the most they can get from us.
Sep 17 14:34:10 <dannyisme>	i dont think we can say that all companies will want the same thing
Sep 17 14:34:27 <dannyisme>	terry is 100 percent right here
Sep 17 14:34:27 <TerryFoote>	So I think it's very important to know exactly what we will and won't do before approaching them.
Sep 17 14:34:27 <innocence>	mav: by the way, the EIN is on that 501(c)3 form
Sep 17 14:34:28 <innocence>	mav: so its definitely not secret :)
Sep 17 14:34:50 <TimShell>	Ok, this will have to be decided later
Sep 17 14:35:12 <pakaran>	should that form be published?  I mean, could someone use the EIN to apply for a corporate credit card claiming to be wikimedia?
Sep 17 14:35:37 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: There are many ways to have corporations donate money to us without having to get anywhere near the logo issue.
Sep 17 14:35:48 <dannyisme>	i have another idea
Sep 17 14:35:51 <Angela>	Pakaran: I think this is public information. Anyone can go and see a 501 form.
Sep 17 14:36:09 <dannyisme>	could we have a stream of donators (which can be trned off) at the bottom of the page?
Sep 17 14:36:18 <dannyisme>	that will show all donators, big and small
Sep 17 14:36:48 <TimShell>	Which page ?
Sep 17 14:36:50 *	dannyisme remembers that the word is donors
Sep 17 14:37:05 <dannyisme>	main page of each project
Sep 17 14:37:11 <innocence>	donors sounds so morbid.  "i donated my liver to wikipedia"
Sep 17 14:37:16 <dannyisme>	so people can see their names
Sep 17 14:37:24 <TerryFoote>	Maybe we can use the example of the brick and mortar world.
Sep 17 14:37:41 <dannyisme>	what do you mean?
Sep 17 14:37:43 <TerryFoote>	Plenty of great works of architecture have been funded by donars.
Sep 17 14:38:05 <dannyisme>	yeah, we have signs all over the museum
Sep 17 14:38:15 <dannyisme>	one guy actually donated a bathroom in honor of his brother
Sep 17 14:38:15 <TerryFoote>	So they have plagues with names of all the donars, arranged in order of generousity.
Sep 17 14:38:18 <dannyisme>	as a joke
Sep 17 14:38:22 <TerryFoote>	It's not advertising.
Sep 17 14:38:35 <dannyisme>	but he gave 100k for it
Sep 17 14:38:36 <TerryFoote>	You're not seeing say at the Kennedy Center in DC "
Sep 17 14:38:44 <TerryFoote>	"buy the new Ford Taurus NOW"
Sep 17 14:38:57 <TerryFoote>	You see though the name of the Ford Foundation.
Sep 17 14:39:03 <TerryFoote>	Very different.
Sep 17 14:39:10 <TerryFoote>	If we have a benefactors page....
Sep 17 14:39:20 <TerryFoote>	Corporations can get the recognition for their generousity...
Sep 17 14:39:23 <MikeSnow>	http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Benefactors
Sep 17 14:39:25 <TimShell>	Will that entice people to donate ?
Sep 17 14:39:28 <dannyisme>	we can have ranks
Sep 17 14:39:30 <dannyisme>	patrons
Sep 17 14:39:33 <dannyisme>	benefactors
Sep 17 14:39:34 <dannyisme>	friends
Sep 17 14:39:44 <dannyisme>	cheapskates
Sep 17 14:39:53 <MikeSnow>	They can also issue press releases, there was one this week from Lexico Publishing
Sep 17 14:40:02 <TerryFoote>	If this page on Wikipedia has a link on the homepage...
Sep 17 14:40:12 <TerryFoote>	Which is guaranteed to get a lot of traffic...
Sep 17 14:40:20 <TerryFoote>	Something as simple as "benefactors"
Sep 17 14:40:32 <TerryFoote>	I think corporate donars would be pleased by that.
Sep 17 14:41:24 ---	SamKorn is now known as SamKorn|away
Sep 17 14:42:01 <Angela>	We're not taking advantage of donations that have already been offered by companies who don't even want a logo or anything in return.
Sep 17 14:42:06 <TimShell>	I think the question of what we are willing to give to sponsors in terms of exposure should be brought up at the meeting tomorrow
Sep 17 14:42:12 <Angela>	It would be better to follow up on those before approaching anyone else.
Sep 17 14:42:19 <Angela>	Google, for example.
Sep 17 14:42:19 <mav>	it would just say that Day X of the fund drive is going to have matchintg funds from company y
Sep 17 14:42:19 <--	mav has quit (Excess Flood)
Sep 17 14:43:03 <dannyisme>	we can do something like this
Sep 17 14:43:16 <dannyisme>	http://www.ecologyfund.com/ecology/totals_honor_roll.html
Sep 17 14:43:27 <TerryFoote>	If we had a page where individual donars could see their names, that would be cool too.
Sep 17 14:43:48 -->	mav (n=maveric1@c-24-30-84-174.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 14:43:58 <TimShell>	That would be cool but would it entice more people to donate ?
Sep 17 14:44:04 <dannyisme>	that is what i am showing you
Sep 17 14:44:12 <dannyisme>	the honor roll of the ecology fund
Sep 17 14:44:16 <TerryFoote>	Sure, and it would entice people who have donated already to keep donating.
Sep 17 14:44:17 <mav>	http://wikimediafoundation.org/funddrive/index.php/day1/detail/
Sep 17 14:44:20 <mav>	that is created automatically
Sep 17 14:44:21 <dannyisme>	and we can even add up people who onate more than once
Sep 17 14:44:28 <dannyisme>	so if you give 10 bucks a month
Sep 17 14:44:32 <dannyisme>	you are listed at 120
Sep 17 14:44:38 <dannyisme>	for a yearf
Sep 17 14:44:51 <TerryFoote>	People love to see their name in print.
Sep 17 14:44:52 <mav>	how do you get all the data?
Sep 17 14:45:03 <mav>	we have somethig set-up for PayPal, but...
Sep 17 14:45:07 <TerryFoote>	I have all the names of snail mail donars.
Sep 17 14:45:15 <TerryFoote>	All the names of credit card donars too.
Sep 17 14:45:33 <TimShell>	It sounds like it could be a nightmare keeping it all straight
Sep 17 14:45:34 <mav>	those would need to be entered in by hand
Sep 17 14:45:50 <TerryFoote>	NOt if we find a system for organizing it all.
Sep 17 14:45:50 <mav>	we need to automate as much as possible
Sep 17 14:45:52 <Angela>	Snail mail donors were never asked if they wanted their donation kept anonymous, so we can't use their names on anything public.
Sep 17 14:46:30 <TerryFoote>	Angela: you have a point there.
Sep 17 14:46:39 <mav>	angela ; we can still assign them unigue IDs, like Anonymous1577
Sep 17 14:47:12 <TerryFoote>	For all future donations...
Sep 17 14:47:48 <TerryFoote>	We perhaps should have something for on the site for snail mail donations saying "please be sure to tell us if you want your name on our benefactors list"
Sep 17 14:47:55 <mav>	we can also ask on the donation page for people to say in the note field of the check if they want to have their name published
Sep 17 14:48:04 <mav>	by defaul they will be anyonmous
Sep 17 14:48:30 <mav>	just like PayPal
Sep 17 14:48:48 <Angela>	cheques have a note field?
Sep 17 14:48:56 <dannyisme>	yes, of course
Sep 17 14:48:58 <mav>	in the U.S. they do
Sep 17 14:49:07 <Angela>	I don't think they do in the UK.
Sep 17 14:49:17 <TerryFoote>	Some people tell you they want to remain anonymous.
Sep 17 14:49:24 <TerryFoote>	If that's what they want.
Sep 17 14:49:29 <TimShell>	I think this is a minor issue
Sep 17 14:49:36 <TerryFoote>	NOt really.
Sep 17 14:49:46 <TerryFoote>	It could be a major issue if someone chose to make it one.
Sep 17 14:49:58 <mav>	Terry ; if they put nothing, then we assume they want to be anon
Sep 17 14:50:02 <innocence>	Ang: i never saw a note field
Sep 17 14:50:06 <innocence>	Ang: you can write on the back though
Sep 17 14:50:13 <TerryFoote>	Mav: I don't know what to assume really.
Sep 17 14:50:17 <TimShell>	A benefactors page would be nice but it won't change the scale of donations
Sep 17 14:50:19 <mav>	only if they say they want their name listed, will we list it
Sep 17 14:50:23 <TimShell>	Matching corporate donations would
Sep 17 14:50:30 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: I disagree with that entirely.
Sep 17 14:50:55 <TimShell>	You think listing donors would double are donations ?
Sep 17 14:50:56 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: The brick and mortar world has been using benefactor pages to great success.
Sep 17 14:50:58 <dannyisme>	actually, listing names would increase donations
Sep 17 14:51:00 <dannyisme>	yup
Sep 17 14:51:18 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: It would be a lot better than what we're doing now, which is esentially nothing.
Sep 17 14:51:21 <dannyisme>	we can even think of ways to parallel that
Sep 17 14:51:28 <dannyisme>	for instance, we can name a server after a donor
Sep 17 14:51:29 <mav>	TerryFoote ; we already list PayPal donations ; donors seem to like it
Sep 17 14:51:30 <TerryFoote>	AND....
Sep 17 14:51:43 <TerryFoote>	Mav: Yeah, I'm talking about other forms of donations.
Sep 17 14:52:04 <mav>	Of course
Sep 17 14:52:14 <TerryFoote>	The most donations in any given non-profit, from what I've read, are from repeat donars.
Sep 17 14:52:21 <mav>	we just need to figure out a sustainable way to get that to work
Sep 17 14:52:45 <dannyisme>	to get repeat donors, we have to acknowledge donors
Sep 17 14:52:52 <dannyisme>	a thank you card is a nice way
Sep 17 14:52:55 <TerryFoote>	dannyisme: YES!
Sep 17 14:53:01 <mav>	before we approache past donors, we *must* make sure we are a registered non-profit in that state/nation
Sep 17 14:53:05 <TerryFoote>	dannyisme: a thank you card is a beginning.
Sep 17 14:53:15 <dannyisme>	it is step one
Sep 17 14:53:21 <innocence>	mav: we're alreayd breaking the law by soliciting donations
Sep 17 14:53:27 <innocence>	i doubt it makes much difference :)
Sep 17 14:53:40 <mav>	kate ; we are in a gray area
Sep 17 14:53:42 <Angela>	Most donors don't give an address, so we can't send cards.
Sep 17 14:53:48 <innocence>	mav: yes
Sep 17 14:53:53 <TerryFoote>	Angela: snail mail donars do.
Sep 17 14:54:02 <TimShell>	How about a contest:  The top 10 largest private donors will have servers named after them
Sep 17 14:54:05 <dannyisme>	and that will save us stamps
Sep 17 14:54:10 <Angela>	TerryFoote: that is a tiny percentage of donors.
Sep 17 14:54:15 <innocence>	Tim: please no :(
Sep 17 14:54:17 <Angela>	And I don't think we should start collecting addresses without giving people assurance about what we're going to do with those addresses.
Sep 17 14:54:18 <mav>	and snail mail donors are where some of our biggest single donations come from
Sep 17 14:54:29 <TerryFoote>	Angela: in the short run yes.
Sep 17 14:54:33 <mav>	angela ; of course
Sep 17 14:54:38 <Angela>	aren't the servers called things like yaseo9834624 now? 
Sep 17 14:54:42 <TimShell>	why not innocence ?
Sep 17 14:54:46 <innocence>	Ang: not the important ones
Sep 17 14:54:55 <dannyisme>	actually, i think we should have a huge database of donors
Sep 17 14:54:59 <dannyisme>	as many as we can get
Sep 17 14:55:01 <innocence>	Tim: i don't think you'll get anyone to agree that donators should dictate sysadmin practices
Sep 17 14:55:08 <innocence>	it's a really bad trend to start.
Sep 17 14:55:25 <mav>	it's just a name
Sep 17 14:55:27 -->	yannf (n=yann@wikipedia/yannf) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 14:55:36 <mav>	yann!
Sep 17 14:55:39 <innocence>	"okay, this server foodonator is going to be renamed srv46"
Sep 17 14:55:43 <innocence>	"no, we're not allowed to do that"
Sep 17 14:55:46 <yannf>	hi mav & others
Sep 17 14:55:52 <jeronim`>	we can just alias it to srv46
Sep 17 14:55:56 <jeronim`>	then we win and they win
Sep 17 14:56:00 <jeronim`>	:)
Sep 17 14:56:09 -->	dammit (n=midom@wikipedia/Midom) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 14:56:11 <dammit>	oy
Sep 17 14:56:11 <mav>	yes - alias
Sep 17 14:56:18 <MikeSnow>	Agree with jeronim
Sep 17 14:56:22 <TimShell>	howdy dammit
Sep 17 14:56:26 <dammit>	hello
Sep 17 14:56:33 <innocence>	i am absolutely against this idea
Sep 17 14:56:38 <innocence>	i refuse to implement it. :)
Sep 17 14:56:39 <MikeSnow>	Servers can be named after somebody on a foundation page and the sysadmins can call it whatever they want
Sep 17 14:56:41 <TerryFoote>	dammit: Yo!
Sep 17 14:56:53 <mav>	but this would only be for real big donors - basically the donation amount would need to pay for the server
Sep 17 14:56:58 <TimShell>	Would having a server named after you make you want to donate more ?
Sep 17 14:57:03 <dannyisme>	we can do what the Jewish National Fund used to do with trees: they got people to donate teh same forest, and then just kept changing the plaque when the donors came to visit ;-)
Sep 17 14:57:07 <innocence>	me personally?  no, i hate vanity
Sep 17 14:57:12 <innocence>	if i donated anything, it'd be anonymous
Sep 17 14:57:28 <dannyisme>	but, innocence, many people donate for reasons of vanity
Sep 17 14:57:50 <TimShell>	People are weird.
Sep 17 14:57:54 <innocence>	sure.  but it's not worth the problems it'll cause.
Sep 17 14:57:56 <TerryFoote>	It would be about like having General Motors naming an engine part after you.
Sep 17 14:58:21 <dammit>	it is not that great, knowing how we curse servers sometimes.
Sep 17 14:58:29 <dammit>	I HATE YOU ANDERSEN! ;-)
Sep 17 14:58:33 <dannyisme>	next time you go to a museum or a theater, check out how everything is named after someone
Sep 17 14:58:51 <innocence>	danny: yes, because the names have no meaning
Sep 17 14:58:54 <dannyisme>	or a university for taht matter
Sep 17 14:59:01 <TimShell>	Ok, in conclusion, we all agree we should find some way to acknowledge donors
Sep 17 14:59:05 <dannyisme>	it does to the people who gave teh money
Sep 17 14:59:09 <TimShell>	And we can decide later the best way(s) to do this
Sep 17 14:59:11 <dannyisme>	yes, i agree
Sep 17 14:59:18 <dannyisme>	and we have to thank them
Sep 17 14:59:23 <TimShell>	There is one other thing I think is important
Sep 17 14:59:25 <dannyisme>	very important
Sep 17 14:59:28 <TerryFoote>	Thanking them is a great start.
Sep 17 14:59:28 <dammit>	this is what 'thank you' pages are for.
Sep 17 14:59:33 <MikeSnow>	We can also find sponsors for staff
Sep 17 14:59:36 <dannyisme>	more than thank you pages
Sep 17 14:59:42 <cimon>	innocence, put a sticker with the donors name on the physical server.
Sep 17 14:59:44 <TimShell>	We did a piss poor job of publicizing the fund drive
Sep 17 14:59:53 <innocence>	name the desks in the office after them, or something :)
Sep 17 14:59:54 <TimShell>	We basically relied on internal promotion
Sep 17 14:59:59 <MikeSnow>	Or split-work arrangements like some of Mozilla's people
Sep 17 15:00:04 <TimShell>	There was no media blitz
Sep 17 15:00:13 <mav>	danny :)
Sep 17 15:00:13 <mav>	a great many do - esp big donors
Sep 17 15:00:13 <mav>	that is why so many libraries and museums have wings name after big donors
Sep 17 15:00:14 <dannyisme>	how do we change taht
Sep 17 15:00:15 <mav>	and so many other buildings have bricks with donor names on them
Sep 17 15:00:16 <TimShell>	No interviews set up with CNN or whomever
Sep 17 15:00:21 <mav>	what Danny said
Sep 17 15:00:23 <mav>	agreed
Sep 17 15:00:27 <mav>	lists on the foundation wiki at the very least
Sep 17 15:00:37 <mav>	TimShell ; we put banners up on every page on the 50th most popular website on the Internet
Sep 17 15:00:44 <cimon>	TimShell, no mediablitz before we are impervious to criticism
Sep 17 15:00:47 <mav>	but yeah, we could have done more
Sep 17 15:01:03 <dannyisme>	40th
Sep 17 15:01:10 <mav>	yikes
Sep 17 15:01:10 <TimShell>	I think PR in a fund drive could change the scale of our total donations
Sep 17 15:01:15 <TimShell>	Double the total maybe
Sep 17 15:01:21 <dannyisme>	i agree with that
Sep 17 15:01:27 <dammit>	well, if we ask for one million
Sep 17 15:01:30 <cimon>	TimShell, our modesty is our shield against journalistic axe-jobs.
Sep 17 15:01:31 <dammit>	that's already news-worthy
Sep 17 15:01:37 <dammit>	or 10 millions.
Sep 17 15:01:38 <dammit>	;-D
Sep 17 15:01:43 <TimShell>	Fuck journalistic axe jobs
Sep 17 15:01:46 <mav>	we can't ask for money we have no plan to spend
Sep 17 15:01:59 <mav>	we at least need a 5 year plan
Sep 17 15:02:08 <dannyisme>	we need a 2 year budget minimum
Sep 17 15:02:12 <TimShell>	This is probably the last year we will spend less than $1 million
Sep 17 15:02:19 <mav>	dannyisme ; you are insame
Sep 17 15:02:21 <TimShell>	We need to start thinking bigger
Sep 17 15:02:23 <mav>	insane
Sep 17 15:02:27 <dannyisme>	insane?
Sep 17 15:02:32 <dannyisme>	i have been called worse
Sep 17 15:02:45 <mav>	we ahve no idea what our costs will be even 2 quarters in the future
Sep 17 15:02:49 <dannyisme>	we definitely need a long term budget
Sep 17 15:02:54 <mav>	esp in regards to hardware purches
Sep 17 15:02:57 <dannyisme>	we cant do a quarterly budget
Sep 17 15:02:57 <mav>	purchases
Sep 17 15:03:00 <TimShell>	We should make publicizing the next fund drive a major priority
Sep 17 15:03:09 <dannyisme>	especially when donors want to know what we are doing
Sep 17 15:03:17 <dannyisme>	for instance, terry has been working with hp
Sep 17 15:03:21 <mav>	danny ; a 5 year plan
Sep 17 15:03:24 <dannyisme>	he has done some amazing work
Sep 17 15:03:27 <cimon>	mav you need to budget lay-away funds for emergencies
Sep 17 15:03:40 <dannyisme>	and they want us to propose something for two years
Sep 17 15:03:44 <mav>	cimon ; we have a reserve fund
Sep 17 15:03:52 <dannyisme>	that means we need a budget for two years
Sep 17 15:04:04 <mav>	dannyisme ; we can do that, but it will be hand waving
Sep 17 15:04:14 <TerryFoote>	dannyisme: I have part of that figured out how to pitch to them.
Sep 17 15:04:17 <dannyisme>	we cannot afford to handwave
Sep 17 15:04:27 <cimon>	mav, the reserve fund has to scale with the general growth
Sep 17 15:04:30 <TerryFoote>	But they will want a very clear itemization of how their money was spent.
Sep 17 15:04:33 <dannyisme>	at work, i put together budgets all the time for a year in advance
Sep 17 15:04:34 <MikeSnow>	Actually, we should start thinking about developing a real endowment
Sep 17 15:04:44 <dannyisme>	at the museum they are planning 2006-2007 now
Sep 17 15:04:50 <mav>	cimon ; 10% per quarter ; soon to be 20% per quarter if I have my way
Sep 17 15:04:58 <TimShell>	Are they growing 300% a year ?
Sep 17 15:05:01 <dammit>	dannyisme: at the museum they have done that for years?
Sep 17 15:05:07 <dannyisme>	yes, they have
Sep 17 15:05:09 <dammit>	dannyisme: is museum growing that fast? :)
Sep 17 15:05:18 <cimon>	MikeSnow, in the long term, we need a fund that will support wikimedias activities purely on the interest it generates...
Sep 17 15:05:21 <mav>	dannyisme ; they museum is not growing 500% per year
Sep 17 15:05:25 <dannyisme>	no, but we are planning exhibitions in 2007 2008 2009
Sep 17 15:05:28 <dannyisme>	they are planning
Sep 17 15:05:31 <MikeSnow>	cimon: Yes, that's what I meant
Sep 17 15:05:33 <dannyisme>	i no longer work there
Sep 17 15:05:45 <mav>	planning is one thing, bugeting that far ahead is another
Sep 17 15:05:58 <dannyisme>	they are budgeting
Sep 17 15:06:02 <TimShell>	This is not a budget meeting
Sep 17 15:06:03 <dannyisme>	and we have to do the same
Sep 17 15:06:06 <dannyisme>	no
Sep 17 15:06:15 <dannyisme>	but fundraising relates directly to budgets
Sep 17 15:06:21 <dannyisme>	we have to explain why we need money
Sep 17 15:06:29 <mav>	danny ; for us it not possible to budget that far ahead - we are growing way too fast
Sep 17 15:06:36 <dannyisme>	we can get sponsorship for sectioons of the budget
Sep 17 15:06:37 <TimShell>	We need the money because we can only afford to do 1% of the things we would like to do
Sep 17 15:06:43 <dannyisme>	then we have to do the best we can
Sep 17 15:06:48 <dannyisme>	and adjust accordingly
Sep 17 15:07:21 <mav>	danny ; I can make *draft* budgets that far ahead and we can adjust and make them offical a quarter or two ahead of time
Sep 17 15:07:34 <TimShell>	Our budget needs for the next funddrive will likely be much the same as this one, except times 4
Sep 17 15:07:34 <dannyisme>	that is not acceptable
Sep 17 15:07:47 <dannyisme>	we need a real budget for 2006
Sep 17 15:07:48 <TimShell>	So let's focus on that
Sep 17 15:08:01 <dannyisme>	all of 2006
Sep 17 15:08:11 <mav>	danny ; that's not possible
Sep 17 15:08:25 <dannyisme>	mav, every company in the world does it
Sep 17 15:08:46 <mav>	my error cone for hardare purchaes is huge ; anywhere between 2 million and 4 million dollars
Sep 17 15:09:11 <dannyisme>	good, then make it 3 million and move on to the next item
Sep 17 15:09:28 <mav>	dannyisme ; what other company is growiing as exponentially as fast as we are?
Sep 17 15:09:54 <dannyisme>	that is not a reason to avoid doing things properly
Sep 17 15:10:03 <dannyisme>	we cant wait till we grow to decide what we need
Sep 17 15:10:05 <mav>	the further in the future we try to predict things, the larger the uncertainly
Sep 17 15:10:11 <dannyisme>	that is fine
Sep 17 15:10:15 <dannyisme>	we can adjust
Sep 17 15:10:16 <TerryFoote>	Mav: The thing is if we want corporate donations, they are going to demand this of us.
Sep 17 15:10:21 <dannyisme>	but we have to have an outline at least
Sep 17 15:10:22 <dannyisme>	yes
Sep 17 15:10:23 <TimShell>	Does anyone want to talk about publicizing the next fund drive ?
Sep 17 15:10:25 <cimon>	mav, hence the need for a big buffer
Sep 17 15:10:33 <dammit>	we can ask for lots.
Sep 17 15:10:38 <innocence>	mav, just lie
Sep 17 15:10:42 <mav>	Terry ; I have nothing against creating draft budgets that far ahead
Sep 17 15:10:42 <dammit>	really lots.
Sep 17 15:10:45 <innocence>	no-one expects it to be accurate anyway
Sep 17 15:10:55 <TerryFoote>	It doesn't have to be perfect.
Sep 17 15:11:13 <TerryFoote>	And I personally have no idea how to go about budgeting what we need.
Sep 17 15:11:19 <TerryFoote>	BUT...
Sep 17 15:11:21 <mav>	in fact I planned to do so already
Sep 17 15:12:01 <cimon>	mav just make a point of allocating funds for stuff even further in the future then the span of the budget. As the foundation is non-profit, it can afford to accrue capita.
Sep 17 15:12:01 <TerryFoote>	We're going to have a hard time getting money from deep pockets if we don't have some type of financial blue print.
Sep 17 15:12:16 -->	jwales (n=jwales@wikipedia/Jimbo-Wales) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 15:12:18 <jwales>	hi
Sep 17 15:12:20 <dannyisme>	hi jimbo
Sep 17 15:12:32 <jwales>	there's a meeting now?
Sep 17 15:12:33 <dannyisme>	we definitely need draft budgets for all of 2006
Sep 17 15:12:43 <mav>	draft budgets, yes
Sep 17 15:12:45 <dannyisme>	and a good idea of what we will need in 2007 and 2008
Sep 17 15:12:48 <TimShell>	We were discussing fundraising
Sep 17 15:12:55 <TimShell>	And what we learned from the recent drive
Sep 17 15:13:04 <TimShell>	and what we can do differently next time to make it better
Sep 17 15:13:13 <jwales>	this is an announced meeting?
Sep 17 15:13:17 <Angela>	Yes.
Sep 17 15:13:18 <mav>	yep
Sep 17 15:13:21 <jwales>	geez
Sep 17 15:13:24 <dannyisme>	if terry goes to hp and asks for half a million dollars over two years, he is gonna have to tell them why we need that and not 450,000
Sep 17 15:13:35 <jwales>	I have a board meeting on my schedule for tomorrow
Sep 17 15:13:45 <Angela>	that's a chapter meeting isn't it?
Sep 17 15:13:45 <TimShell>	I wanted to arrive at some conclusions today
Sep 17 15:13:46 <mav>	meetings, meetings, meetings
Sep 17 15:13:51 <TimShell>	and bring those to the meeting tomorrow
Sep 17 15:13:58 <TerryFoote>	Well the good thing is that it's HP that recommended the 500K figure...
Sep 17 15:14:11 <jwales>	where was this announced?
Sep 17 15:14:16 <mav>	500K is a nice start
Sep 17 15:14:16 *	innocence never heard anything about HP before
Sep 17 15:14:17 <TimShell>	see topic
Sep 17 15:14:23 <innocence>	where am i not looking for these things?
Sep 17 15:14:33 <TerryFoote>	But we'll need to tell them beforehand where the 500K is going.
Sep 17 15:14:36 <mav>	jawales ; on the ml list 3 weeks ago
Sep 17 15:14:53 <Angela>	Innocence: I don't think it's public knowledge. I hadn't heard of it before today either.
Sep 17 15:15:00 <innocence>	Ang:  oh.  well, it is now :)
Sep 17 15:15:11 <mav>	Terry ; absolutely  ; hardware is always a safe bet
Sep 17 15:15:16 <jwales>	HP is not the right terminology
Sep 17 15:15:21 <jwales>	It is the Hewlett Foundation
Sep 17 15:15:26 <jwales>	which is totally separate from the company
Sep 17 15:15:36 <dannyisme>	HF
Sep 17 15:15:40 <TerryFoote>	Yes, yes. the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation.
Sep 17 15:15:42 -->	mark- (i=mark@tilia.nedworks.org) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 15:15:43 <Angela>	The only thing I knew about HP before now was regarding potential Wikiversity development that Anthere was going to follow up on this month.
Sep 17 15:15:44 -->	avar (n=avar@adsl6-56.simnet.is) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 15:16:54 <Angela>	I thought the Hewlett Foundation just wanted a proposal from us?
Sep 17 15:17:03 <dannyisme>	i sent a proposal
Sep 17 15:17:07 <jwales>	Terry met with some people when he was in California.
Sep 17 15:17:07 <dannyisme>	for 350k
Sep 17 15:17:08 <mav>	I can create draft budgets for all of 2006 - but would like to know if I can do so on meta?
Sep 17 15:17:13 <TerryFoote>	They told me they're ready to give us money.
Sep 17 15:17:15 <jwales>	They invited him to come and speak in Utah.
Sep 17 15:17:18 <jwales>	They seem enthusiastic.
Sep 17 15:17:37 <mav>	Utah? Tim can drive :)
Sep 17 15:17:48 <TimShell>	Or not
Sep 17 15:18:19 <mav>	walking is not a great option in that part of the country
Sep 17 15:19:06 <mav>	so - budgeting ; can I do that in public?
Sep 17 15:19:14 <Angela>	I don't see why not.
Sep 17 15:19:18 <mav>	cool
Sep 17 15:19:23 <Angela>	this was meant to be a short meeting, and since it's 75 minutes gone already, is there anything urgent we still need to cover?
Sep 17 15:19:41 <TimShell>	Does anyone care about publicizing the next fund drive ?
Sep 17 15:19:45 <TerryFoote>	Wow 75 minutes already?
Sep 17 15:19:58 <dammit>	if we make it big, we need it to be public
Sep 17 15:19:59 <Angela>	Publicizing it how? We could make a press release.
Sep 17 15:20:05 -->	lohi (i=qwerty@69.65.154.242) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 15:20:08 <TimShell>	Getting Jimmy on Larry King
Sep 17 15:20:19 <jwales>	I apologize for missing this meeting.  I put all meetings on my calendar, but this one is not there, so I assume I never heard about it.
Sep 17 15:20:27 <TimShell>	Getting all the blogs to mention it
Sep 17 15:20:28 <TerryFoote>	A link on the 50th largest website in the world is pretty good publicity.
Sep 17 15:20:36 <dannyisme>	it will be there next week
Sep 17 15:20:42 <MikeSnow>	Dan Gillmor mentioned it
Sep 17 15:20:55 <TimShell>	Off site publicity reaches a whole new set of people
Sep 17 15:21:19 <jwales>	I have one primary comment about fundraising ideas before I have to go...
Sep 17 15:21:27 -->	Ausir (i=Ausir@host177-5.master.pl) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 15:21:41 <jwales>	And this is that we need to brainstorm about how to achieve two things, two things which are somewhat in tension...
Sep 17 15:21:49 <jwales>	1. Being able to declare victory no matter what happens
Sep 17 15:22:08 <jwales>	2. Not giving people the feeling that it is ok to not give because we already achieved success
Sep 17 15:22:18 <jwales>	I think Mav has some great ideas about that...
Sep 17 15:22:25 <jwales>	We should listen to him.
Sep 17 15:22:26 <TimShell>	How important is #1 ?
Sep 17 15:22:46 <jwales>	I think #1 is quite important for morale within the community, for positive press, etc.
Sep 17 15:22:57 <jwales>	People always ask: "Can you get enough money?"
Sep 17 15:23:11 <jwales>	And I'm always  able to confidently say that the public has responded with much love every time we have to ask.
Sep 17 15:23:14 <jwales>	I think that's valuable.
Sep 17 15:23:40 <TimShell>	Id rather fall just short of a $500,000 goal then to sneak past a $200,000 goal
Sep 17 15:23:42 <jwales>	If we ask for $1,000,000 and end up with $250,000 people will start to talk about us having jumped the shark, or gotten too greedy, or some nonsense like that I think.
Sep 17 15:23:50 <jwales>	Tim: yes
Sep 17 15:24:23 <jwales>	But I'd rather be able to fall just short of $500,000 and be able to say "We aimed for $200,000 for basic needs plus more for exciting projects, and we got $473k"
Sep 17 15:24:29 <TimShell>	(hi ausir)
Sep 17 15:24:35 <jwales>	I think it's just a matter of carefully setting things up.
Sep 17 15:24:50 <MikeSnow>	A drive is going to peter out after the target is reached anyway
Sep 17 15:24:58 <TimShell>	We can have a Maslow's hierarchy of Wikipedia needs
Sep 17 15:24:59 <MikeSnow>	You'll never approach 500K if your goal is 200K
Sep 17 15:25:07 <Angela>	That's why we need multiple goals.
Sep 17 15:26:17 <mav>	we need to coordinate contacting various large companies about matching programs
Sep 17 15:26:17 <mav>	press release 
Sep 17 15:26:17 <mav>	jwales ; I forgot about it as well ; don't feel bad :)
Sep 17 15:26:24 <mav>	a set of people less likely to donate, but I see your point
Sep 17 15:26:34 <mav>	meeting the current quarters budget <- minimal victory
Sep 17 15:26:41 <mav>	what we need is long term planning ; a 3 year plan and draft budgets for each of those five years
Sep 17 15:26:44 <mav>	have special projects be part of our planning
Sep 17 15:26:46 <mav>	5 year plan
Sep 17 15:26:52 <mav>	we can have tiers instead of just one goal
Sep 17 15:26:56 <mav>	what agela said
Sep 17 15:27:02 <mav>	but those goals need to be backed up with a plan to use that money
Sep 17 15:27:06 <mav>	jwales ; yep
Sep 17 15:27:12 <mav>	so far all we have been asking for is for donors to cover basic needs ; I think we can start asking for more ; but again, we need a plan
Sep 17 15:27:32 <innocence>	we're hardly covering basic needs at the moment
Sep 17 15:28:05 <mav>	innocence ; please help me with the hardware items of the next few budgets then
Sep 17 15:28:15 <innocence>	mav, did you see the wishlist?
Sep 17 15:28:24 <TimShell>	Maybe instead of some 5 year plan, we can compile a list of the various things we would like to do in the future
Sep 17 15:28:24 <innocence>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers/hardware_orders/wishlist
Sep 17 15:28:28 <innocence>	people will write stuff here we want
Sep 17 15:28:29 <mav>	if my projections are too conservative, then I need to know
Sep 17 15:28:37 <dannyisme>	Tim, the two arent exclusive
Sep 17 15:29:04 <TimShell>	Saying we want at some point to get free encyclopedias to Africa is good
Sep 17 15:29:15 <TimShell>	Trying to put that in a plan and budget for it would be silly
Sep 17 15:29:17 <innocence>	the money we're spending now, from the last fund drive, should have been spent 3 months ago, to keep the site working properly
Sep 17 15:29:21 <mav>	tim ; that would be part of the 5 year plan
Sep 17 15:29:26 <dannyisme>	Terry did something very wise with HF
Sep 17 15:29:31 <dannyisme>	he divided our needs into 3
Sep 17 15:29:40 <jwales>	ok I have to go
Sep 17 15:29:45 <dannyisme>	Hardware, Staffing, Philanthropy
Sep 17 15:29:56 <TimShell>	bye jimmy
Sep 17 15:30:22 <jwales>	I want to budget for experiments in Africa, though.  To see what we can do with a little money to promote the growth of African languages, for example.
Sep 17 15:30:28 <Angela>	can't the money be spent on servers earlier this time (like now) so we don't have this problem of the site dying every time we're trying to have a fundraising drive?
Sep 17 15:30:50 <innocence>	j, i really don't think we're ready for that
Sep 17 15:30:55 <jwales>	Even a mailing to every professor we can find, a paper mailing, who knows English or French and some African language, might produce amazing results.
Sep 17 15:30:55 <innocence>	Angela> no, because we don't _have_ the money
Sep 17 15:31:03 <Angela>	innocence: why not?
Sep 17 15:31:07 <jwales>	Well, we have quite a pile of money at the moment.
Sep 17 15:31:08 <innocence>	i mean, we do now, but we didn't when we needed it
Sep 17 15:31:12 <jwales>	Right.
Sep 17 15:31:14 <innocence>	we are spending it now, but it's too late
Sep 17 15:31:17 <dammit>	we do now.
Sep 17 15:31:22 <dammit>	and we will try to spend some more
Sep 17 15:31:24 <jwales>	Let's spend it all now. :-)
Sep 17 15:31:29 <dammit>	and do fundraiser before we run out of it
Sep 17 15:31:29 <TimShell>	We need the fundraising to get the money for the servers to make the site work well during the fundraising
Sep 17 15:31:30 <dammit>	we're not a bank
Sep 17 15:31:37 <dammit>	we don't earn money by keeping it ;-)
Sep 17 15:31:41 <Angela>	innocence: we have $200,000 in the paypal account for a start. Is all that going to be spent by the end of September (which is when this budget was meant to last until)?
Sep 17 15:31:42 <dammit>	well, banks don't either..
Sep 17 15:31:59 <innocence>	Angela> sure, if you can promise we'll have more :)
Sep 17 15:31:59 <dammit>	Angela: I hope that we will spend that money.
Sep 17 15:32:27 <Angela>	and can't the Google servers be got now?
Sep 17 15:32:28 <dannyisme>	dammit, can you give a maximum budget for 2006 hardware?
Sep 17 15:32:42 <innocence>	danny: $5,000,000
Sep 17 15:32:43 <dammit>	5m$
Sep 17 15:32:44 <dammit>	haha
Sep 17 15:32:47 <innocence>	:)
Sep 17 15:32:49 <dammit>	innocence: ;-)
Sep 17 15:33:21 <jwales>	"maximum budget" - yummy!
Sep 17 15:33:48 <jwales>	dammit, why don't we order those 30 application server boxes on Monday?
Sep 17 15:33:49 <TimShell>	Next week we can have a budget meeting, and talk about fundraising
Sep 17 15:33:54 <jwales>	and the switches
Sep 17 15:33:55 <jwales>	ok bye all
Sep 17 15:34:01 <Angela>	Bye.
Sep 17 15:34:05 <dannyisme>	bye 
Sep 17 15:34:12 <dammit>	jwales: I want to figure out
Sep 17 15:34:13 <--	jwales has quit ("Quitter!")
Sep 17 15:34:16 <dammit>	all other needs...
Sep 17 15:34:29 <dannyisme>	dammit, sir, i think that was an order :-)
Sep 17 15:34:31 <dammit>	so that we don't end up without something we really need
Sep 17 15:34:36 <innocence>	if we spend $200k now, and we need something else next month, we have problems.
Sep 17 15:34:44 <innocence>	so, how soon are we _sure- more money will be available?
Sep 17 15:34:55 -->	brion (n=brion@wikipedia/Brion-VIBBER) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 15:35:29 <dammit>	it does not mean though
Sep 17 15:35:34 <dammit>	that we have to keep 200k$ until next month
Sep 17 15:35:50 <Angela>	considering the offers from Google, Sun, etc, surely we will have the money available. What is stopping us taking those offers?
Sep 17 15:35:52 <innocence>	i know
Sep 17 15:35:57 <innocence>	i think we should spend some :)
Sep 17 15:36:08 <innocence>	ang: j just said to me that we're waiting for both google and the other people
Sep 17 15:36:23 <innocence>	(i nagged him in private about it)
Sep 17 15:36:26 <Angela>	we're waiting for them?
Sep 17 15:36:28 <innocence>	yes
Sep 17 15:36:31 <Angela>	I thought it was the other way round.
Sep 17 15:36:31 <innocence>	shocking, isn't it :-)
Sep 17 15:36:35 <innocence>	so did i.
Sep 17 15:36:39 <innocence>	no-one tells us anything
Sep 17 15:36:41 <brion>	has anything stopped us from accepting hardware from sun? cause if so we should unstop it :D
Sep 17 15:36:58 <brion>	where "we" is "whoever is talking to them, since it's not us"
Sep 17 15:37:11 <innocence>	j: we're waiting on them too
Sep 17 15:37:11 <mav>	innocence : I agree
Sep 17 15:37:11 <mav>	bye jimmy
Sep 17 15:37:12 <mav>	staffing will never be a big enough item to be on its own
Sep 17 15:37:16 <mav>	Overhead would be
Sep 17 15:37:18 <mav>	Angela ; I agree
Sep 17 15:37:27 <innocence>	er.
Sep 17 15:37:28 <mav>	TimShell ; I agree
Sep 17 15:37:32 <innocence>	brion: --^ that was for you
Sep 17 15:37:38 <mav>	Angela ; yep, current quarter ends 30 Sep
Sep 17 15:37:42 <mav>	yikes ; my max was 4 million
Sep 17 15:37:44 <mav>	based on current grouth rate
Sep 17 15:37:45 <brion>	boohoo
Sep 17 15:37:48 <mav>	a minimal budget would be ~2 million
Sep 17 15:37:50 <mav>	but the max is more likely
Sep 17 15:37:54 <mav>	TimShell ; yes - we need a budget meeting ASAP
Sep 17 15:37:58 <mav>	I have a draft budget for next quarter that I need to update
Sep 17 15:38:02 <mav>	brion!
Sep 17 15:38:04 <mav>	kate ; depends on corp donations of money and servers
Sep 17 15:38:08 <dannyisme>	do not do a minimal budget
Sep 17 15:38:10 <mav>	I say, exhaust the hardware budget before the end of the month
Sep 17 15:38:14 <mav>	we have enough offers in the pipeline to carry us to the next fund drive - be it i December or January\
Sep 17 15:38:32 <innocence>	mav: that isn't good enough :)
Sep 17 15:38:36 <mav>	a minimal budget is just a start
Sep 17 15:39:00 <mav>	well, we can't have another fund drive for at least a month 
Sep 17 15:39:22 <dannyisme>	we cant have another fund drive for at least 5 months
Sep 17 15:39:32 <TimShell>	That's an opinion Danny
Sep 17 15:39:35 <mav>	that's wrong Danny
Sep 17 15:39:38 <dannyisme>	that is a fact
Sep 17 15:39:45 <dannyisme>	people will get fed up
Sep 17 15:39:57 <MikeSnow>	four months, try January
Sep 17 15:40:01 <dannyisme>	there were already grumblings about this fundraiser
Sep 17 15:40:09 <dannyisme>	february
Sep 17 15:40:14 <mav>	we had a drive late last year and early this year
Sep 17 15:40:20 <TimShell>	If we install new servers and have twice the traffic in 2-3 months, then we can afford to hit people up, because they will be new people
Sep 17 15:40:20 <dannyisme>	two a year
Sep 17 15:40:26 <mav>	both were smash successes
Sep 17 15:40:42 <mav>	TimShell ; exactly
Sep 17 15:40:42 <innocence>	no-one's going to donate until the site is fast again
Sep 17 15:40:52 <mav>	buy servers now
Sep 17 15:40:53 <innocence>	so you'll need to wait until then, at least :)
Sep 17 15:40:58 <innocence>	we have, some
Sep 17 15:41:30 <mav>	our traffic doubles every 4 to 5 months
Sep 17 15:41:43 <mav>	compounded 
Sep 17 15:42:06 <TimShell>	In 12 years every human on earth will spend every waking hour at wikipedia
Sep 17 15:42:14 <mav>	there will be many new eyeballs enven in a couple months
Sep 17 15:42:22 <mav>	:)
Sep 17 15:42:55 <brion>	aaahhhh
Sep 17 15:43:00 <brion>	my servers... melting...
Sep 17 15:43:35 <mav>	I'd like us to have a two week long fund drive the first half of december ; offer gift cards and remind people about tax deductions
Sep 17 15:43:57 <TimShell>	We already talked about December
Sep 17 15:44:04 <TimShell>	We were going to focus on corporate giving
Sep 17 15:44:06 <innocence>	what is a gift card?
Sep 17 15:44:23 <dannyisme>	a gft to the wikimedia foundation has been made in your honor
Sep 17 15:44:34 <innocence>	ah
Sep 17 15:44:37 <mav>	"A donation in the name of X" that people could buy for one another
Sep 17 15:44:39 <innocence>	how vain :)
Sep 17 15:44:55 <brion>	hahaha
Sep 17 15:45:01 <dannyisme>	actually, innocence, very popular
Sep 17 15:45:12 <innocence>	yeah, it is a common vice
Sep 17 15:45:20 <brion>	you can edit this donation right now
Sep 17 15:45:20 <dannyisme>	when my dad died, we asked people to donate to the canadian cancer society instead of sending flowers
Sep 17 15:46:08 <dannyisme>	they sent gift cards
Sep 17 15:46:10 <Angela>	I was thinking gift cards were like Christmas cards with Wikimedia adverts on them. Maybe CafePress could do those :)
Sep 17 15:46:15 <dannyisme>	a donation has been made in his honor
Sep 17 15:46:48 <TimShell>	Are we done then ?
Sep 17 15:47:15 <dannyisme>	we can do things like graduation gift cards
Sep 17 15:47:29 <TimShell>	I'll post a summary of conclusions and inconclusions on meta
Sep 17 15:47:32 <dannyisme>	in honor of your graduation, a gift has been made to the wikimedia foundation
Sep 17 15:47:45 <TimShell>	Hopefully prior to the meeting tomorrow
Sep 17 15:48:28 <MikeSnow>	Summary: Get credit card processing set up
Sep 17 15:48:40 <MikeSnow>	Plan for next fundraiser (publicity
Sep 17 15:48:48 <MikeSnow>	and BUY SERVERS
Sep 17 15:48:53 <brion>	wheeee
Sep 17 15:48:55 <TimShell>	schedule fund drive well in advance
Sep 17 15:49:13 <TimShell>	In December hit up US corporations for tax-incentivized donations
Sep 17 15:49:15 <innocence>	how much money do we have left?
Sep 17 15:49:24 <TimShell>	Get on corporate charity rosters
Sep 17 15:49:43 <TimShell>	Terry will approach coroprations about sponsoring the next fund drive
Sep 17 15:49:56 <TimShell>	Find some good way to acknowledge donors
Sep 17 15:50:06 <innocence>	(we need to know how many servers to buy :)
Sep 17 15:50:06 <mav>	kids love to get those :)
Sep 17 15:50:11 <mav>	we can have a contest for the design of the card
Sep 17 15:50:15 <mav>	I think so
Sep 17 15:50:15 <TimShell>	Publicize fund drive so it is brought to attention of wider audience
Sep 17 15:50:19 <mav>	several card types - yes
Sep 17 15:50:20 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: BUT....
Sep 17 15:50:27 <mav>	but we need somebody in the office to handle sending out the card
Sep 17 15:50:27 <dannyisme>	kira will design the card
Sep 17 15:50:29 <mav>	s
Sep 17 15:50:31 <mav>	when is the meeting tomorrow?
Sep 17 15:50:32 <TerryFoote>	We need some type of concensus on what my pitch to them will be.
Sep 17 15:50:35 <dannyisme>	that is me, mav
Sep 17 15:50:35 <mav>	press release
Sep 17 15:50:39 <mav>	lots of servers
Sep 17 15:50:41 <mav>	early December
Sep 17 15:50:47 <dannyisme>	i do mailings
Sep 17 15:50:47 <Angela>	TerryFoote: that can be drafted on meta.
Sep 17 15:50:48 <TerryFoote>	On what's in it for them
Sep 17 15:50:49 <mav>	Innocence ; I dunno - MDavis is keeping the books atm
Sep 17 15:50:51 <TimShell>	Terry: we can discuss that tomorrow
Sep 17 15:51:06 <TerryFoote>	Angela: beautiful
Sep 17 15:51:10 <mav>	dannyisme ; you'll need help - that is a rather menial task ; perfect for interns
Sep 17 15:51:20 <dannyisme>	i like menial tasks and the clash
Sep 17 15:51:33 <dannyisme>	dsandanista will be perfect for that
Sep 17 15:51:40 <TerryFoote>	TimShell: Cool. I won't be around tomorrow, so if you can email me the gist of the conclusion, I'd be most appreciative.
Sep 17 15:51:43 <Angela>	2 hours is too long for an IRC meeting.
Sep 17 15:51:49 <TimShell>	No kidding
Sep 17 15:51:55 <TimShell>	Terry can you crash to officers meeting ?
Sep 17 15:52:02 <TimShell>	Would anyone object ?
Sep 17 15:52:17 <Angela>	as long as the meeting is less than 2 hours, I shan't object ;)
Sep 17 15:52:22 <mav>	I don't - he should be in the meeting
Sep 17 15:52:29 <TerryFoote>	When is it?
Sep 17 15:52:29 <TimShell>	Come to the meeting Terry
Sep 17 15:52:30 <dannyisme>	terry should be there
Sep 17 15:52:34 <dannyisme>	if he can
Sep 17 15:52:35 <TimShell>	16:00 UTC
Sep 17 15:52:40 <TerryFoote>	Tomorrow?
Sep 17 15:52:46 <TimShell>	Which I think is 9 AM Las Vegas time
Sep 17 15:52:50 <TimShell>	yes tomorrow
Sep 17 15:52:53 <TerryFoote>	OK, I can do that.
Sep 17 15:53:09 <cimon>	dannyisme, I would never have figured you for a clash fan
Sep 17 15:53:10 <TimShell>	Mention my name and you get in for half price
Sep 17 15:53:11 <TerryFoote>	Is Las Vegas Pacific time?
Sep 17 15:53:16 <TimShell>	yes
Sep 17 15:53:21 <Angela>	I thought it was 18 UTC.
Sep 17 15:53:36 <TimShell>	Today's was 18
Sep 17 15:53:44 <mav>	what is the meeting about?
Sep 17 15:53:53 <TerryFoote>	Sooooo....shall we have a pre-arranged time limit?
Sep 17 15:53:55 <TimShell>	Jimmy is chairint
Sep 17 15:53:56 <dannyisme>	btw, we have 90k in paypal right now
Sep 17 15:53:59 <TimShell>	chairing
Sep 17 15:54:02 <cimon>	dannyisme, beastie boys are much more legit imo
Sep 17 15:54:05 <TimShell>	so whatever he wants it to be about I guess
Sep 17 15:54:16 <TimShell>	But see the agenda here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_agenda
Sep 17 15:54:21 <Angela>	I thought Anthere couldn't do meetings that early.
Sep 17 15:54:48 <TimShell>	It has said 16:00 UTC for weeks
Sep 17 15:54:58 <TimShell>	Anthere didn't say anything to me about it
Sep 17 15:55:02 <mav>	the meeting will still likely be going on and on by the time she gets there :)\
Sep 17 15:55:34 <Angela>	TimShell: did you see the talk page?
Sep 17 15:55:47 <TimShell>	which talk page ?
Sep 17 15:56:00 <Angela>	Http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_meeting_agendas.
Sep 17 15:56:03 <mav>	we need to set a time for a budget meeting tomorrow
Sep 17 15:56:17 <Angela>	There can't be a budget meeting tomorrow.
Sep 17 15:56:30 <Angela>	There's already the chapter meeting then.
Sep 17 15:56:37 <mav>	I'd like to have a Q4 budget ready before Q4 starts
Sep 17 15:57:19 <mav>	I'll also create drafts for all of 2006
Sep 17 15:57:31 <TimShell>	Angela - the organizaion of meetings part ?
Sep 17 15:57:45 <Angela>	Yes, probably.
Sep 17 15:58:34 <TimShell>	Yes I saw that
Sep 17 15:58:40 <mav>	aside : quarter naming will be weird next year ; the first quarter of 2006 will be called Fiscal 2006 Q3
Sep 17 15:59:18 <TimShell>	Are we changing our fiscal year ?
Sep 17 15:59:24 <mav>	aleady did
Sep 17 15:59:35 <TimShell>	What is next quarter ?
Sep 17 15:59:37 <mav>	June 30 is the last day of our fiscal year now
Sep 17 15:59:59 <mav>	I'm still calling it Q4, but it really is Fiscal 2006 Q2
Sep 17 16:00:21 <TimShell>	We have the same fiscal year as Microsoft then
Sep 17 16:00:29 <mav>	lovely :)
Sep 17 16:01:00 <TimShell>	I suggest everyone leave now
Sep 17 16:01:05 <mav>	k
Sep 17 16:01:18 ---	dannyisme is now known as dannynaps
Sep 17 16:01:26 ---	mav is now known as mav-away
Sep 17 16:01:30 <--	MikeSnow (n=snows@wikipedia/MichaelSnow) has left #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 16:02:08 <--	TimShell (n=tim@wikipedia/Tim-Shell) has left #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 16:02:48 <TerryFoote>	By weveryone
Sep 17 16:02:56 <--	TerryFoote (n=TerryFoo@wikicities/terryfoote) has left #wikimedia-meeting ("Leaving")
Sep 17 16:06:23 <--	Angela (n=Angela@wikipedia/Angela) has left #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 16:06:58 <--	yannf (n=yann@wikipedia/yannf) has left #wikimedia-meeting ("Joining #realife")
Sep 17 16:07:33 <--	cimon (n=cimon@wikipedia/Cimon-avaro) has left #wikimedia-meeting ("Leaving")
Sep 17 16:17:24 <--	lohi (i=qwerty@69.65.154.242) has left #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 16:18:57 -->	Ant (n=Anthere@AClermont-Ferrand-251-1-38-174.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #wikimedia-meeting
Sep 17 16:21:49 <pakaran>	sorry, i missed the request to leave
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 17 16:21:54 2005


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