Grants talk:PEG/WM ID/Areca Vestiaria Bird Club - Discover Biodiversity of Sulawesi Photographs

Comments MADe

Hey Arief, thanks for this updated grant request (the first one was not accepted).

I checked with my last comments on the former proposal and I'm happy to see my comments were taken into consideration, so I'm happy to approve this grant.

Before approving I'd like to see a "letter of collaboration" with the "AV Birder" organisation (and possibly of WM ID) MADe (talk) 08:57, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi MADe. So to make sure we're on the same page, I'd like to make a few points clear. I am proposing on behalf of my club, which is AV Birder. I will lead my members in the execution of this proposed project. Right now, I don't quite understand to whom the "letter of collaboration" from AV Birder should be adressed to. Could you please explain more? Ariefrahman (talk) 07:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey Arief, this should not be a problem. At this moment, you're the only one of the organisation that I have seen on Meta. Could you give us a letter with the 'AV Birder' heading, signed by the board members, that they support this request. This is only administrative thing, so I pledged my support already MADe (talk) 07:48, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your support. I am currently drafting the letter of collaboration addressed to Wikimedia Foundation. You may expect it to be emailed in two or three days. Ariefrahman (talk) 09:40, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I like the project. The only thing I'd like to see - would to have a declaration about minimal numbers of pictures/articles/species covered - as a way of measurement of the success/failure of the project. How many people are actually you expect to be involved in the project? Polimerek (talk) 11:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. Could you give an example of how I should revise my measure of success? The wildlife that we are targeting are dynamic individuals, and there's no guarantee we'll come across them at any given trip, so I'm finding it hard to visualize a more measurable goal.

As for the people involved, there are currently 8 people active in this project. Field work will be done by a team of 3-4 people, which will alternate between the 8 team members. All 8 team members will be involved in writing and developing the articles for Wikipedia and Wikispecies that will accompany the photographs of our exploration.Ariefrahman (talk) 09:40, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for coming back with a reworked proposal; I'd definitely like to see it carried out in some form. I'd still like to see collaboration with WMID, and would also ask: is there something about the project that requires $2800 in camera gear? Will $2800 in gear make an important difference in results over $1000 in gear? The proposed gear set is definitely nice, but there are significantly cheaper options that are still quality cameras. Kevin (talk) 03:36, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your interest in our activity. More than half of our proposed budget is directed to the purchase of a telephoto lens. That is the most crucial piece of equipment, since it is very hard to photograph wildlife from close range without scaring them off. There are cheaper lenses in the market, but these don't have the focal length necessary for photographing objects from long distances, particularly moving ones (i.e. wildlife). Trimming the budget any further is quite difficult.Ariefrahman (talk) 09:40, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Also a welcome again and thank-you for the new Grant request. I also see that the lense is considerably cheaper than in the last request, even though it looks like it's the same one. Anyway, I am also interested in seeing a "Letter of Intent" from AV Birder. --Manuel Schneider^(bla) (+/-) 10:29, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to take a decision by now. The support via Wikimedia Indonesia is great, I'd fully support this grant. But still there are at least two persons (Tony and me) who have asked for a Letter of Intent from AV Birder, at the same time the last contribution by Ariefrahman is from October 23rd, that's more than two weeks ago. I am unable to take a decision on this basis and non-responsivnes by the applicant. My suggestion is to give this a deadline until November 13th, if Ariefrahman is still inactive then we would close this request as witdhrawn. --Manuel Schneider^(bla) (+/-) 09:21, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. The lens I'm requesting here is an old type without Vibration Reduction. However, I think that feature can be compensated with a good tripod. I've written a Letter of Collaboration to WMID, and they support my proposal with the terms ans conditions stated below. Should we also send a Letter of Collaboration directly to WMF? Ariefrahman (talk) 08:18, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

• I'm sorry if I've missed it previously, but have you approached WMIN explicitly about this? I don't think collaborating them is a necessity per se, but I would like to see them at least approached about it. I would also like it to be clear where the equipment will go once the grant is over/who will permanently own it. This is a two year long grant, but the equipment involved will last quite a bit longer than that. Kevin (talk) 02:06, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I like this project like Polimerek :) but I rate the Measures of success as very weak. --Packa (talk) 22:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Wikimedia Indonesia Support to The Grant

Background

In September 2013, Arief Rachman requested a grant to purchase DSLR camera and tele lenses to capture birds of Sulawesi photographs. Based on this request, WMF responded on 5 October email by Asaf Bartov. The decision at that time was either Arief works with an organization in Sulawesi or with Wikimedia Indonesia in Jakarta. Arief responded by making a new grant request in Meta.

In October 2013, Arief Rachman, this time as chair of Areca Vestiaria Bird Club (AV Birder), requested support from Wikimedia Indonesia. WMID responded by contacting Arief and the results of the conversation are as follows:

1. Areca Vestiaria Bird Club is a club under student nature lovers extracurricular unit of Sam Ratulangi University (Manado, North Sulawesi), consist of 6-8 members meeting regularly since the end of 2012. They requested WMID as a partner on the camera grant.
2. WMID agreed to be a partner organization for this grant, where the grant will be received via WMID dollar bank account and the camera will be bought by WMID and will be handed over to AV Birder under several terms and conditions.
3. Arief as chair of AV Birder agrees to the terms and conditions.

Board Meeting Results

Based on board meeting held on 2 November 2013, the followings are Wikimedia Indonesia's decisions and terms and conditions regarding AV Birder camera grant request:

1. The board feels that AV Birder (Arief) needs a training in Jakarta to properly contribute to Wikimedia Commons, Indonesian Language Wikipedia, and Wikipedia English. The training will include:
   1. geo-tagging,
   2. proper referencing,
   3. Creative Commons licensing
   4. importing CC-licensed picture from Flickr to Wikimedia Commons
   5. Wikimedia Commons picture quality to be featured
   6. project-based reporting
2. Cost for the training is US$ 500, consists of US$ 400 for plane tickets and US$ 100 for local transportation in Jakarta and Manado. WMID will cover accommodation and meals for five days. Cost for training will be covered by this grant. Therefore, total grant request will be US$ 2,827.1 + US$ 500 = US$ 3,327.1.
3. Before the training, Arief should upload 100 nature-themed pictures (including birds in Indonesia) to Wikimedia Commons in the period of 4 November 2013 - 20 December 2013.
4. Arief has confirmed that he could do training in 20 - 27 December 2013 in order not to conflict with his study schedule.
5. Therefore, the grant should be received from WMF before 20 December 2013.
6. After the training, AV Birder will upload 500 pictures of nature-themed pictures (including birds in Indonesia) to Wikimedia Commons or write about new Indonesian nature-themed articles in Indonesian/ English Language Wikipedia or the combination of both pictures and articles. The period of finishing all 500 contributions will be from 6 January 2014 - 15 March 2014.
7. After the successful completion of the terms and conditions above, AV Birder will be invited to Jakarta to do reporting and camera puchasing as well as official handing over of the camera from WMID to AV Birder.
8. WMID will cover the cost of this second trip (US$ 500).
9. Should AV Birder fail to meet the deadlines given above, WMID will held an Indonesian nature-themed photography contest in which the camera is the grand prize. The terms and conditions for the photography contest will be similar with the ones mention above, and AV Birder is welcomed as participant.

Isabella Apriyana (talk) 12:42, 2 November 2013 (UTC) (Deputy General Secretary of Wikimedia Indonesia)

Request for clarification

Thank you, Wikimedia Indonesia, for engaging with this proposal, and for agreeing to help realize this opportunity. Two quick questions:

1. Most of the terms above seem good to me, but I am confused by the requirement that the applicant upload 600 pictures before receiving the camera. It was my understanding that the camera is needed to produce these photos, and is not a reward to be given post factum after a certain amount of photos have been contributed. Could you clarify? Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 00:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
2. We would be ready to make a decision once these questions are answered, but the actual date of disbursement (wiring the funds to WMID) would depend on how quickly the grant agreement is signed and how quickly we can get scanned proof of identity (required by US law), so is not completely up to us. Given that, it is conceivable (though unlikely), that, if approved, funds may not be in WMID's hands before Dec 20th. In that unlikely case, is the project endangered, or does WMID have sufficient reserves to advance the funds in that case (given a commitment from WMF to fund this)? Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 00:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

On the matter of the individual's track record, having looked at the applicant's existing contributions on both Commons and IDWP, we are satisfied that he is a bona fide Wikimedian. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 00:51, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The reason we offered to help and agreed as partner on the grant was because both of WMF and AV Birder wrote to us. Since WMF thinks Arief is a bona fide wikimedian, then WMID is happy if WMF give the grant directly to the AV Birder/Arief Rahman. Therefore, terms and conditions above is only applied if Arief is under our supervision. We will withdraw from helping with the grant, and will put WMF entirely responsible for this grant successful outcome. Isabella Apriyana talk 08:04, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Meeting the requirement of 600 pictures before we receive the equipmeng is near impossible. The photographs of birds of Sulawesi is incomplete. I've tried searching the web, including Flickr that provides Creative Commons license and the results are few (I've uploaded some to Wikimedia Commons via Flickr and my photographs collection). Unfortunately the rest have copyrights and can't be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. However, we could start to create or edit biodiversity articles to fulfill the stated terms and conditions, after that (in March 2014, after we fulfill WMID's terms and condition and get the camera) we can start our explorations and add photos to the articles that we've started. Ariefrahman (talk) 09:23, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Minutes of WMID and WMF Conference Call

Background

The meeting is about Arief's grant request to WMF where WMID already took a collective decision to support the initiative on November 2, 2013 as stated on the meta talk page above.

Follow up timeline

• Based on respond given by Isabella in meta talk page on November 9, 2013, Asaf Bartov on November 15, 2013 requested a time to do verbal conversation with WMID.
• On November 17, 2013 Isabella responded by giving preferable time to talk considering time difference and Isabella's office hours (note: Isabella is volunteer and has a full time job apart from WMID)
• On Desember 3, 2013 Asaf replied to ask for a conference call, followed by a facebook message on December 4, and the follow up email on December 6, 2013 asking for the same thing. On December 7, 2013 Asaf called Isabella's cellphone pass midnight (Indonesia time) and left a voicemail message.
• On December 7, 2013 after seeing the emails, message in facebook and listening to the voicemail, Isabella replied with a proposed time for a conference call on Sunday.

Summary of Discussion

The meeting took place on Sunday, December 8, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. Jakarta time (or 7:30 p.m. San Fransisco time) via Google Hangouts.

1. WMID's position for the grant. It was explained to Asaf that WMID already has a collective decision with terms and conditions and a fixed timeline. This decision has been communicated to Arief.
2. Asaf's question on "Why WMID withdrawn from the proposal" was answered as follows:
   1. WMID did not withdrawn from the grant, what WMID did was giving alternative with terms and condition assuming the grant will be approved to be managed by WMID. The formulated terms and condition is not open for negotiation at the point of being offered, they are final.
   2. Should WMF disagree with the terms and condition given and would like to grant directly to Arief, WMID is happy not to be part of the grant request.
   3. Asaf mentioned that WMF prefers to go channel the grant via WMID for easier legal and administrative reasons. WMF also prefers that purchasing equipment is best granted to organization instead of an individual.
3. WMID's position for training. It was explained to Asaf that based on assessment being done to Arief's contributions, he need more improvement should he receive the grant. This include contribution interval (previously Arief's took long breaks between contribution) and Commons pictures' standards (picture size, resolution, etc). WMID feels a large quantity of contributions would still be useless if the quality is so far below standard, where Arief would be beneficial in receiving an in-depth training. WMID informed Asaf that Arief has acknowledged this training and agreed upon the terms and conditions. It is also hoped that Arief's training will inspire an indirect impact in which Arief would be able to teach his fellow member of the bird club and other circles in his area to contribute in Commons and Wikipedia.
4. WMID's contribution for the grant. WMF was informed that helping Arief is an additional time and financial burden for WMID, this assistance is not part of WMID next year plan. WMID only tries to bridge possibilities here. WMID reminded Asaf again that the camera request was Arief's. WMF was later questioning the WMID terms should Arief fail to meet the conditions then WMID will do a photo competition, which put an impression of WMID asking for a sub grant on behalf of Arief's grant. WMID responded that the particular point is not mandatory, the option still open that WMF give the grant directly to Arief, or should Arief fail and WMF would like WMID to return the money intended to buy the camera, WMID is happy to do so and will not pursue the option of photo competition. For WMID, the main goal of the grant request is to generate more Indonesian content for Wikimedia Commons, therefore we feel photo competition is another option. The option to return the money to WMF only meant one less burden of running a competition WMID didn't plan to have. WMF agreed to the point and feels a photography competition sounds like a good alternative for closure. Asaf stated that he now understands and agrees with WMID terms and conditions and agreed to channel the camera grant funding via WMID.
5. However Asaf will not be able to channel the grant funding via WMID because according to WMF there's one grant report that WMID hasn't completed. Isabella informed Asaf that she is not in the capacity to discuss the matter and will forward it to WMID board. Isabella did a clarification in which regarding to the camera grant proposal, it is Arief's request and not WMID's. However, according to WMF the result of Arief's camera proposal would somehow be in WMID's hands (considering WMF's preference to have WMID as partner on this camera proposal). Asaf confirmed that it is a different grant request and not related, however it is heavily linked as administratively, WMF cannot give the fund to WMID. Responding to a question from Isabella on how soon WMID should answer, Asaf said 7-10 days to respond is reasonable. Should Wikimedia Cipta grant is not finalized, then WMF will have to seek other alternative to fund Arief's request.
6. Asaf will contact Arief to provide him further information about the grant request status, based on the result of discussion with WMID.

Conclusion: Arief camera grant proposal is approved. Asaf also agreed to both the amount of money and the terms and conditions from WMID. WMF will only have to disbursed the money to WMID and WMID will engage with Arief for schedule that he is already agreed upon in meta. However, the US$ 3,327.1 fund cannot be given from WMF to WMID to (possibly) Arief, since according to WMF the report for Wikimedia Cipta is not finalized. Isabella Apriyana talk 07:30, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

My comment

Thanks for the submission. In general, the project is fine and interesting to get my support as something which will really enlarge the number of content from the flora and fauna on the Sulawesi island, but the problem here is again the ownership-related issue that usually prevails as argument to oppose such requests. My only suggestion would be to consider the possibilities to borrow the needed equipment for the project. It doesn't mean that I oppose the grant request, but I'm afraid that this will end into the same group of not funded photograph projects because of the same reason. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:36, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Evaluation by the GAC

GAC Members who approve this grant request

1. MADe (talk) 07:48, 23 October 2013 (UTC), would like to see a proof of the participation of 'AV Birder'
2. There has been a great improvement from the earlier proposal. But as Asaf mentioned you should have the camera at the commencement of the program. -- Roel (talk) 13:23, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Approved

With the resolution of the old report by Wikimedia Indonesia, we are pleased to approve this grant as discussed above on this talk page. I have updated the main page to show the budget discussed above, and the grant funds will be wired to WMID ASAP.

I do hope Arief and WMID would still be able to hold the training as planned without too much interruption to Arief's school schedule. Please do let us know. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 23:27, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Options on remaining funds

According to the expense report, the remaining funds of this project is $370.72 (~ IDR4,236,365). Regarding what to do with the underspent money, WMID would like to suggest two options as follows:
1. Return all the remaining funds to WMF. Please note that wire transfer back to the US will result in around $30 deduction for administrative fee. Also, the value of USD is very high at this time therefore it's very likely that the currency depreciation is pretty significant (~$20) as we have collected all the money in IDR.

or

2. Use the money to purchase additional camera accessories useful for AV Birder's project as they have mentioned to us. The camera accessories are two units of additional battery and 16 GB SDHC memory card which would be able to power the camera and store pictures of 7 - 12 days worth of field trips, plus a camera dry box that will be used for camera maintenance. Breakdown of estimate prices:

Item	Brand	Total Unit	Price	Amount	Total
Nikon DSLR Battery	Nikon EN-EL15	1 unit	Rp. 550,000	x	2	Rp. 1,100,000
SDHC Memory Card	Sandisk SDHC UHS-I Extreme 16GB	1 unit	Rp. 300,000	x	1	Rp. 300,000
Camera Dry Box	Dry Box Techno DB 380	1 unit	Rp. 550,000	x	1	Rp. 550,000
					Total	Rp. 1.950.000 (~ $163.3)

Notes:

Please note that if this option is approved then WMID opts to transfer the money in IDR to Arief's bank account as we believe our fiscal sponsor term has ended as well as it would be much easier for him to purchase the items in Manado. Additionally, the amount of remaining money around $200 would be way much smaller now if returned considering the admin fee and the currency depreciation. Therefore we think it might be more useful say for instance, to cover the expenses of Arief's second training.

As WMID is only responsible as fiscal sponsor, we will let WMF have the final decision about these remaining funds. Thank you. Isabella Apriyana (WMID) (talk) 17:01, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for these details. We approve using the remaining funds to cover the additional camera equipment (Rp. 1.950.000/~USD 163.30) and expenses from Arief's second training (~ USD 200). Please note, Arief will need to provide us with documentation of expenses (receipts) from purchasing the equipment. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 17:06, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Requesting an extention

Hi.

Our project goal is to upload Sulawesi biodiversity photos every month from June 2014 to December 2015. For 18 months our project to collecting biodiversity pictures, there is 6 months that we couldn't collect pictures.
Unfortunately, Nikon lens for telephoto is fell and damaged by accident in December 2014 and repaired in March 2015. For individual reasons, I can't collect pictures in October - November 2015 due to completing my undergraduate thesis and I didnt get other poeple to collecting pictures.
Therefore, we would like to request an extension of project end date to June 2016.
Best wishes. Ariefrahman (talk) 11:50, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Ariefrahman. Thank you for this update and I'm sorry to hear about the lens! The new end date of June 1, 206 is approved. Your final grant report will now be due July 31, 2016. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 16:41, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you.Ariefrahman (talk) 19:21, 23 March 2016 (UTC)