Grants talk:Project/Philip/WikiJournal.org/WikiJournal

Project Grant proposal submissions due today!

Thanks for drafting your proposal for a Project Grant. Proposals are due today! In order for this submission to be reviewed, it must be formally proposed. When you have completed filling out the infobox and have fully responded to the questions on your draft, please change status=DRAFT to status=PROPOSED to formally submit your grant proposal. This can be found in the Probox template found on your grant proposal page. If you have already done this, thanks for your submission, and you should be receiving feedback from the Project Grants committee in the coming weeks. Thanks, I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 18:16, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

WikiJournal.org and WikiJournal at Wikiversity

To put this proposal in context, the WikiJournal.org project (which User:Fokebox, the applicant of this grant proposal, has created) and WikiJournal at Wikiversity (where I've been active) are technically still different projects, but there is an ongoing discussion of merging these projects: See Talk:WikiJournal Developing WikiJournal project at wikijournal.org. After all, both projects have the goal of eventually having WikiJournal as a Wikimedia sister project. User:Fokebox has put significant effort into the WikiJournal.org project, but I would still suggest a much more moderate grant amount than the current 25,000 USD one. The WikiJournal at Wikiversity currently runs on a few hundred USD per year (see Wikiversity:WikiJournal_of_Medicine/Financials), and although I expect an increase in expenses for the next grant, it still wouldn't come near these proposed expenses. Mikael Häggström (talk) 12:09, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Mikael, you should understand that there are totally different requirements between Wikijournal within Wikiversity and WikiJournal as a separate resourse. There are many differences on mission and goals between these two projects. We shall think about future goals and aspects of development that needs more resorses and funds. --Fokebox (talk) 18:43, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

The way Wikimedia projects work

Philip: I have gone carefully through your grant proposal. I understand your positive gesture but that is not how Wikimedia projects work. I think that we are in a stage too early to ask for grants. A lot of planning and organization needs to be done first. Wikimedia projects work based on collaborative efforts. Although many individuals put in their best, all of them do not necessarily think on the same line. We therefore have a culture of defining communities and to try and reach consensus first. Neutrality is a very important feature and we try to adhere to. If we are to ask for grants, we need to clearly define the course of action including the detailed break-up of the grant amount. If you are proposing an amount, it should not be a random amount; you need to furnish the details about how you arrived at that figure. For example, go through this budget proposal. You would see how much details the organizers have gone into while putting the proposal. You would need to do the same if you are to apply for such a grant. Moreover, in case the grant is approved, the grant is unlikely to go to an individual. An organizational account has to be opened and the organization has to be registered as a non-profit. Such an account would be operated only through decisions of a board of which you can be a member. But each of the expenses (above a certain threshold of petty cash) would need to be justified. I do not think that we are in a position to handle such a feat as of now. Besides, most of the headings that you have mentioned, are handled by volunteers and so no direct costs are to be incurred. For example, the scope of Technical assistance needs to be parametrically defined and appropriate user groups need to be approached for the same. It is not like we are going to buy their efforts and hence the expense (if any) would be nominal. Same, for most others. I hope that you get the essence of what I am saying.

In case you want to be reimbursed for some specific expense that you have borne, or if you think that you deserve some amount for some development that you have made, that is entirely a different issue and you should feel free to specify. For example, if you want to name a figure for providing the domain wikijournal.org, you can clearly state it here. But otherwise, Wikimedia projects are volunteer driven and work quite differently. I hope you would understand. Diptanshu^Talk 12:25, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Diptanshu thanks for you message. I do agree with many things that you indicated at your message. I will indicate more details of the budget and probably reduce the amount. All of the budget at the proposed grant directed to create such non-profit organization that will maintain, develop and fulfil goals of the project. All I would like to dedicate myself entirely to the development of Wikijournal. For now I need funds on:

• Hosting
• Technical and administrative support
• Registration of non-profit organization

The last clause requires more attention, effort and time, but unfortunately I cannot leave current job due to it helps me to cover current living expenses and the same time I cannot spend time and pay more attention on organizing of WikiJournal. The grant would help me to fulfil this three main issues and create a base for further development as well as probably to become a part of Wikimedia projects. This is just an attempt for me.--Fokebox (talk) 13:48, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Dear Philip: We all are volunteers here. You need not even think of leaving your present job and dedicating full time to WikiJournal. I respect your intentions but perhaps you should take things a bit slower. Let things evolve. Since you are cooperating, the first thing that we should do is to discuss with the legal department of WMF and get the domain incorporated to WMF servers. That will neutralize any technical and hosting costs. Your present hosting seems to be valid till September 2017. In case recurring charges are still involved, we have a simpler solution available. Mikael already has registered hosting through which the domains Wijoumed.org and WikiJMed.org are operated. WikiJournal.org can simply be migrated to those servers at no added cost. In case added charges are needed (if any), Mikael can take care of any added costs (should be nominal anyway) through the remainder of the grant he received last year.

Moreover, Mikael has already gone through the process of non-profit registration of WikiJournal of Medicine and can help with the registration of WikiJournal as well. But I think that we should not hasten the process. Let the community evolve first. You need not strive alone. A better outcome will yield once more people get involved. Give it some time. In the meantime, we are there to get your load distributed. You need not bear it alone. Diptanshu^Talk 15:20, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Diptanshu! It is bad idea to move to other hosting. The server has already set up for the project and as you could see there are several localizations launched. Moving to other host will results a huge number of bugs. Moreover the hosting provides a great support and tools to work with server where Wikijournal is hosted. It is easier for me to collect a small donation for hosting among those who is interested in the project.--Fokebox (talk) 06:32, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Fokebox: I would need to strongly differ from you in this regard. Moving to Wikimedia servers is a pre-requisite. We are aspiring to becoming a Wikimedia sister project. So, this is very important. If you do not agree to this, there is no way we can move forward. Besides, Doc James has rightly pointed out that the license used on your servers is not same as that used by the Wikimedia servers. That is very crucial too. Unless you decide to use CC-BY-SA-4, no merger would be possible. You also need to agree to quality control and peer-reviews if you are willing to go forward with us. As such, we would be happy to incorporate your domain wikijournal.org but that is not indispensable for us as we have other options including journal.wikimedia.org (similar to the already operative species.wikimedia.org for WikiSpecies). We would just have liked to avoid the unnecessary confusion created by an independent use of the same name. We would be most happy to find you among us and would like to extend full community support but you would have to decide your priorities. You would need to decide whether you want to move with Wikimedia and benefit from collaborative efforts or whether you want to be independent. If you decide to move along with us, adhering to Wikimedia principles of transparency and commitment to quality would be essential. I wish to hear your response in this regard. Diptanshu^Talk 05:06, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Run by the WMF

Before I would support would require donation of the domain name to the WMF and then the WMF would manage the hosting.

That the current site is licensed CC BY SA NC also makes this a no go for me. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:46, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

yes, the point(s) raised by Doc James are valid and therefore I would agree w/ his position--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:48, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Doc James The license now is changed to open one. (Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported)--Fokebox (talk) 16:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Perfect thanks User:Fokebox. Are you coming to Wikimania in Montreal? Looking at heading to Latvia in August. Not sure were you are based but would be great to meet in person.

By the way how many active contributors do you have in each language? And are you willing to hand over management of the technical aspects of the site to the WMF? Currently it is hosted in what country? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:16, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Doc James! Please find below my answers on your questions:

• Are you coming to Wikimania in Montreal? Looking at heading to Latvia in August. Not sure were you are based but would be great to meet in person. - I would also like to meet in person and participate in such events, but unfortunately I don't have personal extra funds to organize such business trip and have to deal with present job that requires some time. I hope in some future I will have such opportunity to participate at
• By the way how many active contributors do you have in each language? - Most of localizations (English, German, Russian) were launched in January 2017. French, Italian and Spanish were launched couple weeks ago. That's why there aren't any active contributors yet. But I keep working on informing others on the project by creating a page on it and orginizing group of users who would like to join Wikijournal.org. I also plan to apply the project to obtain a status of Wikimedia sister project. Now the most developed edition is Russian (more than 200 articles) due to its quite long history (it was launched beginning 2013 at wikijournal.ru and later transferred to ru.wikijournal.org). The most of content was published by me. Since the launch there were several transformations of the project itself. Now it is fully meets the WikiMedia mission (changed the licensee, everyone can join, free content and no payments, removed all ads from the website). So it would be nice to involve others to develop all current WikiJournal localizations.
• And are you willing to hand over management of the technical aspects of the site to the WMF? - I don't mind to hand over management of the technical aspects of the site to the WMF. For now I manage server on my own, but I think any support is great as we face some technical difficulties etc.
• Currently it is hosted in what country? - It is hosted in Estonia

Meanwhile there is group of users that develops its own project with the similar name "WikiJournal" and we discussed a possible merge of two projects into one. But there are some difficulties on policy of the project. They are working on creation of peer-review journal and as far as understand they work on scientific journal that is only for scholars. And I developed the journal mainly for journalists and other users who would like to publish their own articles on different topics. That's why I applied to the grant to develop the idea of the journal further and to obtain a status of Wikimedia sister project so that it would be possible to inform as much as possible users within Wikimedia websites.

So feel free to contact me and join the project. Kind wishes, --Philip (talk) 15:24, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Are you based in Estonia? We might drive through.

We respect to news articles we have Wikinews.

To become a sister project would require donating and allowing the WMF to take on the technical aspects. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:06, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Doc James, I am from Russia ). But the hosting I rent is in Estonia. I don't mind to donate and give all technical aspects to WMF. But in this case I would like to know my own role in the project. Unfortunately I cannot be 100% volunteer and be enthusiastic all the time. --Fokebox (talk) 09:39, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

What do you mean by "cannot be 100% volunteer and be enthusiastic"? I am 100% a volunteer and am still enthusiastic after more than 10 years :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:11, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Doc James, well, I will try to be one too =)

Outside scope of Project Grants

Hello Fokebox,

This proposal appears to be out of scope for Project Grants. We only fund proposals "aimed at improving one or more of Wikimedia's existing websites." We do not fund projects aimed at improving third-party sites, even those aligned with the WIkimedia Foundation's mission. If you're interested in creating a new Wikimedia site, there is information provided here.

If you would like to revise this proposal for future submission, please review our project eligibility guidelines.

Thanks for your interest in Wikimedia projects.

Kind regards, --Marti (WMF) (talk) 03:15, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Please note that I'm reverting your proposal status back to draft. As above, you are welcome to resubmit in a future round, but please make sure you have fully reviewed our eligibility guidelines before doing so.

Kind regards, --Marti (WMF) (talk) 23:52, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

September 26 Proposal Deadline: Reminder to change status to 'proposed'

As posted on the Project Grants startpage, the deadline for submissions this round is September 26, 2017. To submit your proposal, you must (1) carefully review our eligibility guidelines and make sure the proposal is within the scope of this project, (2) complete the proposal entirely, filling in all empty fields, and (3) change the status from "draft" to "proposed." As soon as you’re ready, you should begin to invite any communities affected by your project to provide feedback on your proposal talkpage.

Warm regards,
--Marti (WMF) (talk) 04:47, 26 September 2017 (UTC)