Grants talk:Project/Rapid/Wikipedia & Sindhi Wikipedia Awareness Workshop and meetup

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--Jogi don (talk) 05:35, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Start & End date[edit]

Hello Jogi don, can you indicate an exact start and end date for this request (with a day, please). Thank you! Delphine (WMF) (talk) 09:04, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

@Delphine (WMF):, Thanks for asking, Dear We have decided 24-25 May as Start and End Date, but we want to start it from 24th May and will continue time to time till June, so plz suggest Start and end date for this workshop.--Jogi don (talk) 10:51, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Questions about your proposal[edit]

Hello, Jogi don. Thank you for updating your proposal. This sounds like a fascinating opportunity for Sindhi Wikimedians to gather in person and plan activities as a developing community, and we are interested to see how this outreach initiative can expand to other Wikimedia projects over time! We are glad to see the involvement from the experienced Wikimedians to help organize this, as well as contacts from several institutions that are interested in providing some resources towards this project. We are curious to know more about who you have approached, and whether they would have the capacity to provide the space or other in-kind donations for this event? Between 30 and 100 expected participants you listed, which is the more accurate approximation?

I also have a few questions about your budget:

  1. Since travel an lodging are the most significant items in this plan, can you tell us more about whom you would be providing them for and how you will decide to choose them?
  2. We also notice there are many proposed giveaway items in this event; we suggest limiting them to the name tags, souvenirs, and certificates for delegations, and one or two gifts for participants.
  3. Can you elaborate on the Photography item?
  4. What kind of miscellaneous costs do you anticipate?

Thank you for your responses! Morgan Jue (WMF) (talk) 23:27, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Answers

  1. We will provide lodging to the active Sindhi Wikimedian/Wikipedian and other wikimedian from Pakistan coming to participate the event. WE will decide on their financial status whether they can’t afford.
  2. Thanks, Sure we will try to minimize them.
  3. We will hire a photographer for coverage of the event.
  4. Miscellaneous costs are that which at the moment of event we might require.

Kindly also inform us , how much time it will take to grant approval, so we could talk for preparations, booking of hall, etc. Thanks --Jogi don (talk) 07:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello Jogi don, thank you for responding. Could you respond to my other questions regarding the venue space and the estimated participants you expect for this conference--is it 30 or 100? We would ask that you reduce the cost for printing, depending on how many people are expected to attend. Please reduce your budget amount to reflect the recommended changes in giveaway items. Could you explain who the dignitaries are, and how many would be attending? We also do not recommend funding for hired photography at events, as photography and documentation are responsibilities that can be achieved by volunteers, unless there is a reason to have a professional photographer.

Can you provide a proposed agenda for this event? There seems to be more than one event mentioned in your project plan, and it currently is unclear whether you are planning for only one awareness workshop or an additional series of ediathons. Best, Morgan Jue (WMF) (talk) 00:22, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi MJue (WMF) , The venue is under consideration two cities, Hyderabad and Karachi, final decision will be made soon ASAP we receive confirmation of Venue hall in any one of these cities. The estimated participants are 100 among them 30 be Wikipedian and Wikimedian and remaining 70% be non-Wikipedian. We have to get print certificates, souvenirs for the participants, but we shall again consider reducing the cost for printing. The dignitaries are poets, literary persons and university professors, expected five persons. Atleast we need a media coverage, have to pay for it, The proposed agenda for this workshop is given in proposal, again its mentioned here agenda is to train the existing Wikipedians and non-Wikipedians, meetup, 10th Birthday of Sindhi Wikipedia and make awareness among people regarding Wikipedia and Wikimedia Foundation sister projects. This time it’s our fist and one workshop after it we intend to do a series of awareness workshops and editathons.Jogi don (talk) 06:40, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
  • COMMENTS - I've never edited Sindhi Wikipedia but I am a regular anonymous editor on Urdu Wikipedia, and so I get to know about this from there. So I am here to support this good initiative but I have some concerns about this grant. I don't understand why Mr. Jogi don wants 30,000 PKR for travel purpose for 20 Peoples. Why he want to accompagne 20 people to a different city? and who are those people? I don't think its a wise idea to waste the funds on traveling. Is this some kind of tour program? And similarly why need 20,000 PKR for 10 double rooms for 25 people from the Pakistan. Also who are 2 International Guest? It would be nice to know their usernames. Also I am disappointed to see the impact mentioned which is not reasonable given the amount of grant being asked. 5 new editors and 50 new articles can be created without a penny spent and what is the assurance that those 5 new edits will remain active? Mr Jogi needs to reconsider working on impact section and enlarge it. Also Mr jogi says he is contact with various education institutions in Pakistan who will host the event. I would like to know names of few institutions and if possible their confirmation or their willingness to host such programmes. That being said I still support this grant and initiative but I suggest that people from Urdu Wikipedia community should be involved in this initiative as I consider them more experienced and trustworthy and I think having them onboard can make this project more successful. Thank you. --119.160.119.77 17:26, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

--119.160.119.77 17:31, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

hi, dear annonymous, thanks for your comments, but it is good if you let us know your good name plz, regarding your support we thanks you, and you need some answers, let me answer. We wants 30,000 PKR for travel purpose for 20 Peoples(Wikipedians) , because they are coming from different locations and both side coming to participate workshop and going back to their homes its travel expanses oje person may have to spent up down tickets PKR 1500 per person by bus or Van so 30000/20=1500. "Why he want to accompagne 20 people to a different city? " Because participants are coming from different cities. "and who are those people? ", these people are Sindhi Wikipedians, "I don't think its a wise idea to waste the funds on traveling", dear in each and every workshop users have to travel from different areas its simple you may have to understand it, some of your questions are confusing, if users have to come from different areas they have to travel and most of our users are students you know what their financial conditions if we can't give them travel expanses how they will participate . "Is this some kind of tour program?" This is not tour program this your comment is very embarrassing, "And similarly why need 20,000 PKR for 10 double rooms for 25 people from the Pakistan" so dear could you plz tell me if the participants come and we don't book rooms for their stay one night before and after workshop then where I should manage their stay except booking rooms for their stay. "Also who are 2 International Guest? It would be nice to know their usernames." These two international guest are both active Sindhi Wikipedians one is sd:User:Indus_Asia, from Canada, and other is User:Gridhari_Lal_Manani from India, "Also I am disappointed to see the impact mentioned which is not reasonable given the amount of grant being asked." The impact is good enough if you're thinking for Urdu Wikipedia and Punjabi Wikipedian we will also give a short intro of these Wikis besides other Pakistani languages Wikipedias. The new Wikipedians hopefully will contribute, as they shown their interest, and institutes, universities and colleges from different parts of Pakistan have shown their interest to host our upcoming events/workshops at their locations, those include, University of Sindh, Govt Degree college Larkana, University of Sargodha, and many other private colleges institutes, but this workshop grant is only for this workshop we'll manage workshops at their locations by asking them some financial help,. We have many times asked requested Urdu Wikipedians to join us at this workshop we welcome them if they contact us and join it will be a pleasure for us to mingle with them but their reaponse is very very poor except Urdu Wikipedian and Admin User:Arif soomro, we many times contacted other Pakistani wikipedians, they didn't replied, so what can we do if they are unresponsive and not replying not supoorting, this workshop is broad in its impact and We Sindhi Wikimedians own All Pakistani Wikipedias so we will also work for them. If any Pakistani Wikipedian from Urwiki, pnbwiki come joinbus we'll welcome. Jogi don (talk) 20:45, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Mr jogi. i am still not convinced with your answer so lets talk bit further, you said 20 people from different part of Pakistan coming to your city to attend the event. but i wonder why you want to invite people from outside city. since you going to do a workshops then why not invite local students and teach them how to edit wikipedia rather than inviting 20 people from outside your city? if this is some kind of meetup between the sindhi wikipedia users then its your choice but i just want to suggest that the money you want to spend on transportation and accommodation can be spent on something else which can bring more impact to your project and wiki. also, i cant see User talk:Indus_Asia, from Canada, andUser:Gridhari_Lal_Manani as registered users. but anyways that all being said. i wish you best wishes with your initiative..
I have corrected both of their user names here its'User talk:Indus_Asia, from Canada, andUser:Gridhari_Lal_Manani,and indeed you have given a good suggestion to call local students, we have also called local students and they will become our new users and the 20 people are those Sindhi Wikipedians whom we have a meetup, and its necessary for us together, and its also mentioned in agenda for meetup, these 20 people are Sindhi Wikipedian, they have contributed on Sindhi Wikipedia, and this is our first meetup,as mentioned in proposal so, each time you object these 20 people its very confusing, I have not saw any objection on previous grants for participants coming for workshop, so why to object these 20 people. and here I request you kindly mention your own User name so I may watch you, so Its again my humble request please reveal your name. Thanks..JogiAsad, Jogi don (talk) 10:16, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
okay. i just wanted to see the contributions that these two international users made. one have made only few edits. but anyways. by the way. i noticed the pattern of editing of most of sindhi wikipedia users (including those who endorsed this grant) is quite same. i think i have right to hide my privacy and raise my concerns here without have to reveal my username. --119.160.119.9 16:36, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Mr. IP User, what about my contribution? --Arif80s (talk) 12:12, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Additional comments[edit]

Hi Jogi don. Thank you for responding to Morgan's comments above. We are still a bit confused about the scope of the activities based on what is written in the proposal and your comments on the talk page. Here is what we understand: You would like to do one event that will be a mix of activities, including celebrating the 10th birthday of Sindhi Wikipedia, trainings for experienced Wikimedians in areas determined in the pre-event survey, and doing outreach and trainings to recruit new editors. You expect about 30 active Wikimedians (including 20 that you will cover travel for) and an additional ~70 new editors who will come for the editing trainings. Please confirm if we understand this correctly.

In our experience, trying to organize activities for both experienced and new editors at one conference is very challenging. We see the value in bringing together experienced Wikimedians to meet face-to-face, discuss challenges and opportunities they face in their editing activity, and sharing knowledge about new skills (tools, templates, partnership development, etc.). New editors need altogether different types of trainings. We would suggest that you separate the two types of gatherings at least over two days. One day (or half day) experienced can meet up and then the following day they can work to train new editors. Please let us know what you think of this idea.

Additionally, it sounds like the longer-term plan is to hold regular activities for newer editors. A series of editathons, as you mention, is much more effective in building a community and social network for new editors. This network is a very important piece of recruiting newer editors. What are your plans for supporting this type of activity?

Please update the proposal page to reflect the correct number of events, expected number of participants and the budget guidelines that Morgan provided above. Please let us know if you have any questions. Best, Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 16:04, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Dear Alex Wang @AWang (WMF):, thanks dear, yes this grant is for one event that will be a mix of activities, including celebrating the 10th birthday of Sindhi Wikipedia, trainings for experienced Wikimedians in areas determined in the pre-event survey, and doing outreach and trainings to recruit new editors. You expect about 30 active Wikimedians (including 20 that you will cover travel for) and an additional ~70 new editors who will come for the editing trainings. Please confirm if we understand this correctly. Yes I confrim you have understood it. For answer to your second paragraph, thanks for your idea/advice we will offcourse do a seperate sessions for new editors and existing active users. This is head start first workshop after it we will do series of workshops at different intervals of time to train, connect new users, i fully agree with your advice as you have perceived our strategy. I again clear that this grant is soly for one workshop/event, after it we will do nedt events/activities amd regarding budget as Morgan suggested I have again revised budget as per Morgan's suggestion, dear the budget I have explained each and every expanse in budget and we assure that we will provide tranparency in grant spending. Here I also request all that its our first initiative we expect a positive and a dignified support and role from you all, dear all we want to meet our existing and new users, want to share our skills experience of contributing Wikipedia, Wikimedia, and I perceive if we don't do take this initiative then in near future no one will work for these events organizing, each new users, it will take many years if any other person might come forward for such initiative, so we wants to share, give our experience, skillas to new and existing Wikipedians in our country. I have gained experience, skills working restless 5 to 10 hours, even sometimes I delayed my meals and prioritise completing my tasks, working for Wikipedia, Sindhi Wikipedia, translating metawiki templates, pages from English to Sindhi, Punjabi and URdu languages.

If you will not support our this first ever in history initiative then I think there is no other who will take such activities, events in far near future, this workshop is a new hope, and we will build a strong community of active users. Thanks, Sincerely Asad Ali Jogi Jogi don (talk) 21:30, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

LOL. Mr jogi, i think more new people will join in so no worries i appreciate your enthusiasm for wikis but you seriously need to priorities your real life first and get food on time. Face-grin.svg
plz memtion your name plz, dear here we are very persuasive asking people to join Wikipedia and pay their contributions, and in result many new users have joined registered their new accounts on Sindhi Wikipedia but problem is that they don't know how to work, insert categories, create new articles and they have so many confusions and they asked us to teach them, so we decided to arrange this awareness workshop, we have become disappointed that new users dont know how to contribute, create new articles, categories, templates, so on, atleast new users need experienced users (us) to help them learn skills, share their difficulties, sometimes we asked people on social sites asked people to join and contribute they asked us they need trainings, so we decided to gather all them at one place i.e. this awareness workshop,and togethar all them, make a strong community activate them I may priorities my real life but I love Wikipedia working it, and consider Wikipedia editing as part of my everyday life, its truth. Jogi don (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
  • REPLY I altered, as its my right to alter, If you hide your name, then why can’t I alter irreverent comments made by you, you know editing without an registered Wikipedia account is a Vandalism, you fall into Vandalism category, I may have reported you under a Vandalism, and your IP can be blocked under Wikipedia policies, but here we want to know what actually you wants, and what are your real intentions opposing this grant initiative. You’re objecting our initiative but we believe every good deed is always opposed so we never give up. This workshop is first ever initiative forms Pakistani Wikipedian, Sindhi Wikipedians, such meetup, workshops previously have never been arranged in Pakistan. And where it’s written that stubborn comments of an unregistered IP having concerns may be given answers, what are your intended concerns and who cares concerns raised by an IP that is always considered as Vandalism, Instead appreciative positive comments, suggestions you are continuously opposing this initiative, previously do others have not arranged such events and applied for grants?, did 20 or 30 or whatsoever number of participants did not participated in meetups, traveled intercity, applied for grant, utilized grant budget on travel expenses, hotel booking of participants of their events?, We here are not hiding anything from anyone; it’s all clearly mentioned by us, still each time you objecting participants, sometimes you object on endorsements, what actually your intentions are? We are not here thief’s or stealing/ hiding anything so why you hide yourself?..Jogi don (talk) 07:43, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Dear IP User 119.160.119.77, we are unable to reply to your comments. Please show your appropriate identity so that we could respond to your comments. Thanks. --Arif80s (talk) 08:13, 15 April 2017 (UTC)


I agree with Mr. Jogi's idea. This is the first time ever initiative taken by the Sindhi Wikipedia Community. I salute to those boys. I think it is a best way to promote wikipedia in students and other peoples through arranging awareness workshops.--Arif80s (talk) 17:32, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

I am also agreed with Mr Jogi's ideas and comments of Arif80s awareness programme will provide chance to new peoples who are unaware regarding Wikipedia--59.103.214.45 13:11, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Jogi don (talk) and Arif80s you both are correct. The idea of mr jogi will promote Wikipedia and will be helpful to spread awareness among new people or students who have keen interest for seeking knowledge about Wikipedia--Aziz Kingrani (talk) 13:18, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Comments on approval[edit]

Hi Jogi don. Thank you for your detailed responses. We are happy to support this meeting of Sindhi Wikimedians and the outreach activities. I would like to repeat what Morgan said above about expenses for gifts and photographer. We do not pay for professional photography for Wikimedia events/meet-ups. We also encourage you to think about your needs in terms of calendars, giveaways, souvenirs, mementos, and certificates. Some of these may be appropriate for your event and culture, but we would like you to limit these types of expenses to one small item for participants and organizers/special guests. We look forward to hearing about your event and wish you success! Best, Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 21:14, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

hi, @AWang (WMF): Dear Alex Wang, first of all I'm much pleasured and feel very happy to know that Sindhi Wikimedian gets this grant approval for first ever awareness workshop of its kind in history of Pakistan. We assure you that we'll reduce the amount for giveaways, souvenirs, and we will try to arrange a free of service photographer but for the media coverage in Pakistan media persons or journalists asks money for coverage. And we will again try our best to follow your advise and suggestions, we ensure you to provide you a transparency in funds utilization, you can make audits of our report after workshop is done. Its a great opportunity and a trust that you make on us for giving us a chance to revitalize our community and make more participation of Pakistanis into Wikipedia and especially Sindhi people to participate in Sindhi Wikipedia, it has been 10 years since inception of Sindhi Wikipedia on February 11,2006, that this Sindhi Wikipedia slowly and gradually made its way to development and thanks to Almighty that Sindhi Wikipedia got enthusiast users such as Mehtab Ahmed, Mohammad Mujeeb, Asad Jogi (me), Indus Asia, whose contributions is highly remarkable, its made us especially me very disappointed that we at Sindhi Wikipedia are so far behind in comparison with other regional Wikis, i.e Urdu Wikipedia, Punjabi Wikipedia. So its was my idea to arrange such event for awareness, meetup for said purposes as mentioned in grant page. And in result of our campaign we got many new registered users but all they faced problems how to edit, how to insert categories, create templates so on and by doing this workshop and meetup we'll teach all those new users and discuss with existing active users, we'll also celebrate 10th birth anniversary of sdwiki. Once again on behalf of all Sindhi Wikipedians, Sindhi Wikimedia community I thank you and all others who supported our idea, especially mr. Satdeep gill, with his moral support, mr. Arif soomro (Urdu Wikipedia admin) and other two Bengali Wikimedians Ferdous and mr. Morgan for their moral support and suggestions. I think we have worked again and again for improvement in grant proposal and suggested budget reconsideration for expanses. This is our first ever experience for such an event and we hope things will be more better in future. We are very thankful to you for your trusting on us. Thanking you, Sincerely. Asad Ali Jogi. Jogi don (talk) 22:40, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Report (working Draft)[edit]

Grants:Project/Rapid/Wikipedia & Sindhi Wikipedia Awareness Workshop and meetup/Report