IRC office hours/Office hours Zack Exley 2010-10-05

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[14:01:35] <StevenW> Hi everyone!
[14:01:41] <StevenW> So I think we're ready to start.
[14:01:49] <Abbasjnr> hi
[14:01:51] <Theo10011> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_2010
[14:01:59] <Philippe> effeietsanders: it's still ugly atm
[14:02:05] <Philippe> but JamesF is laboring tirelessly
[14:02:11] <StevenW> So today we get to chat with Zack Exley, who is WMF's Chief Community Officer
[14:02:13] <effeietsanders> hmmm
[14:02:32] <StevenW> http://wikimediafoundation.org/Chief_Community_Officer for more on his position
[14:02:37] <effeietsanders> Philippe: I assume you will post it to the fundraising-l that chapters have to keep in mind the whole thing is being redesigned?
[14:02:52] <Philippe> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Chief_Community_Officer
[14:02:55] <StevenW> Yeah
[14:03:15] <effeietsanders> StevenW: hehe, his job is 404 :P
[14:03:22] <Keegan> Hello, zackexley
[14:03:32] <zackexley> Hey everyone!
[14:03:37] <Theo10011> Hi
[14:03:39] <StevenW> So this is Zack's first office hours.
[14:03:51] <effeietsanders> ok, question one: what *is* your job? (opposed to what the description says it is supposed to be)
[14:04:00] <aude> hi zackexley
[14:04:22] <zackexley> i was just saying here that that description might not be too great
[14:04:35] <zackexley> just tell me what my job should be
[14:04:40] <zackexley> wouldn't that be best?
[14:04:40] <aude> zackexley: are you in SF?
[14:04:50] <zackexley> Yes - I'm in SF
[14:05:06] <StevenW> Aude: I think you just missed meeting Zack while you were around. :)
[14:05:07] <aude> ah, i was visiting a week ago, but maybe didn't meet all the staff
[14:05:26] <jeremyb> aude: he was in boston too
[14:05:33] <aude> zackexley: another time, or if you are ever in DC, we can invite you to a meetup here
[14:05:38] <jeremyb> is StevenW in SF?
[14:05:41] <StevenW> I am.
[14:06:18] <StevenW> Zack is composing an answer to effeietsanders now...
[14:06:19] <zackexley> In all seriousness: I think my job is to help create a space at the foundation (not just in SF but virtually around the world) where wikimedians can come together to research&solve&seize problems&opportunities in the movement
[14:06:45] <Abbasjnr> Speaking of job description, I'm somewhat confused between the role of the CCO and CGDO..Aren't they almost one and the same?
[14:06:46] <effeietsanders> zackexley: physically or psychologically?
[14:06:54] <zackexley> Meetup in DC would be great
[14:06:59] <zackexley> that was my old stomping ground
[14:07:13] <aude> cool :)
[14:07:18] <Theo10011> Abbasjnr CGDO is for global development
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[14:07:25] <zackexley> effeietsanders: i guess both
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[14:07:49] <StevenW> Good question Abbasjnr, Zack will tackle that
[14:07:53] <zackexley> Abbasjnr: well obviously there are a lot of places where our dept overlap
[14:07:54] <Theo10011> I meant the global south participation
[14:07:59] <Abbasjnr> Theo, global development in the community, right?
[14:08:00] <Philippe> (hey, lots of people in here that were on the great new Wikimedia vids, btw... Abbasjnr, StevenW, Theo....)
[14:08:03] <effeietsanders> (because for physical, it seems a rather limited target group :) )
[14:08:35] <Theo10011> Global dev. would involve reaching out to new places, Zack I suppose is the head of the entire community dept.
[14:08:55] <Theo10011> Ya the vids are great
[14:09:04] <Risker> zackexley...so what does "creating a space" have to do with fundraising? Not that I'm complaining, but it is a strange mix
[14:09:11] <Abbasjnr> yeah, Philippe
[14:09:12] <zackexley> i don't want to speak for barry - so I'm trying to think of how to constract our jobs without putting words into his mouth
[14:09:17] <StevenW> Sort of Theo10011. Zack is a C-level department head too, but of a different set.
[14:09:31] <zackexley> it's not as simple as new places vs "old place"
[14:09:36] <zackexley> places
[14:09:52] <Theo10011> thats what I meant, both C-level guys, CGDO more focused on outreach to global south
[14:09:55] <aude> zackexley: can you tell us a little about your background? how you came to WMF?
[14:10:16] <zackexley> but the community dept is working in general more on the level of on-wiki work
[14:10:22] <StevenW> Why don't we let Zack tackle Risker's question, and then on to background?
[14:10:55] <zackexley> risker: well, the community is fundraising this year
[14:11:05] <zackexley> tons of people are involved, thanks to Philippe's great work
[14:11:09] <zackexley> and the whole team --
[14:11:22] <zackexley> and by team I mean all the people here in this building and around the world who are participating
[14:11:28] <Philippe> (thanks, everyone!)
[14:11:31] <zackexley> individual vols and chapters too
[14:11:42] <zackexley> It's kind of the mother of all barn raisings
[14:11:49] <zackexley> this year: $16m
[14:11:50] -*- Keegan agrees
[14:11:55] <zackexley> all from small donors
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[14:12:09] <Theo10011> yup
[14:12:15] <Theo10011> seems like quiet a task
[14:12:20] <StevenW> Barn raising in a http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/BarnRaising sense, not an Amish sense. ;)
[14:12:22] <zackexley> what's clear is the a process that was run only by-for the "foundation" can't achieve that goal
[14:12:58] <StevenW> Does that answer your question Risker?
[14:13:34] <Risker> sort of....that takes care of the fundraising end, but some expansion on how the lesson here can be translated to other activities would be useful
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[14:14:04] <Risker> we're trying to understand your vision, Zack :)
[14:14:09] <aude> zackexley: what's the target, in terms of larger grants or donations?
[14:14:13] <zackexley> Vision!
[14:14:16] <zackexley> OK
[14:14:27] <Keegan> I think Risker is getting to the Foundation level decisions that effect the communities by the Community Department
[14:14:28] <-- ireas (~ireas@wikipedia/Ireas) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:14:29] <Philippe> aude, the total budget is 20.4, I believe.
[14:14:29] <zackexley> my vision is I think similar to many long time wikimedians:
[14:14:42] <aude> Philippe: thanks
[14:14:44] <Philippe> or 20.8, StevenW tells me
[14:14:46] <zackexley> that the community has within it everything it needs to keep thriving and growing and evoloving
[14:14:46] <Philippe> i should know that :)
[14:15:41] <-- effeietsanders (~chatzilla@wikimedia/effeietsanders) has left #wikimedia-office
[14:15:58] <zackexley> but we see that there are some areas where things have locked up, or are starting to slow down. No one really agrees on what the problems are, or how they are playing out. But we all know there are SOME -- and the new huge scale of the movement makes it harder than ever to figure this out
[14:16:20] <zackexley> One approach would be: Let's hire experts! Right?
[14:16:37] <zackexley> But I don't think that's the way to go
[14:16:39] <Philippe> who's an expert in Wikipedia, anyway? :)
[14:16:54] <Keegan> Fuzheado :)
[14:17:00] -*- James_F grins.
[14:17:01] <Theo10011> haha
[14:17:01] <aude> zackexley: what do you define as a Wikipedia expert :/
[14:17:05] -*- StevenW points at Risker, Philippe. ;)
[14:17:07] <Keegan> Or whatever Andrew's username is
[14:17:09] <geniice> zackexley actualy the foundation's proposed budget is up there with EBs
[14:17:21] <zackexley> my vision (again - similar to a lot of others) is that we create a place/space/environment where a rolling set of wikimedian leaders/researchers/etc can work in some new ways together
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[14:17:57] <StevenW> geniice: we didn't budget on a comparison basis. ;)
[14:17:59] <jeremyb> geniice: encyclopedia britannica?
[14:18:01] <Keegan> Hello, rdunican
[14:18:12] <rdunican> hi keegan
[14:18:19] <geniice> jeremyb ja
[14:18:24] <jeremyb> hah
[14:18:40] <StevenW> Maybe it's time to answer aude's question about how Zack arrived at the WMF?
[14:18:44] <geniice> zackexley and as for why see http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/ wikipedia is effectively uneditable for new users
[14:18:44] <Abbasjnr> I have a pending question (when your done)
[14:18:55] -*- jeremyb runs to meet Pharos
[14:19:09] <zackexley> aude: you asked about my background... I started as computer geek in 1981. 6502! Vic 20->C64->Amiga... and then I got a crush on a hippy girl and the amiga was left behind
[14:19:22] <zackexley> i got interested in politics and social movements in college
[14:19:23] <Theo10011> lol
[14:19:26] <Theo10011> old school
[14:19:28] <aude> hah
[14:19:29] <StevenW> Feel free to PM me any pending questions. cc: Abbasjnr
[14:19:29] <zackexley> (Umass!)
[14:19:34] -*- Philippe still has his Commodore 64
[14:19:42] <Ziko> sweet memories...
[14:19:43] <zackexley> and then i worked as a community organizer through the 90s
[14:19:46] <-> Freaky_Fries is now known as FrFr|Afk
[14:19:49] <zackexley> tell me about it Ziko!
[14:19:56] <Abbasjnr> ok, Steven
[14:20:07] <Ziko> texas instruments 99A4 and C64
[14:20:23] <zackexley> i kept up programming skills (VB!...er...blech)
[14:20:42] <zackexley> and when the internet came along and started doing projects to see if it could be used as a movement tool
[14:20:59] <Theo10011> you also wrote for the huffington post, right?
[14:21:44] <zackexley> but as I did "political" things, I always watched wp with admiration (and fixed typos) -- because it was not a cause, or a bunch of people clicking links but...
[14:22:07] <zackexley> a real *society* -- a movement that actually worked...as in did a whole ton of work -- and did it miraculously well
[14:22:28] <zackexley> Yeah - I wrote a bunch for HuffPO
[14:22:58] <zackexley> I worked at MoveOn.org, the Dean campaign and then get sucked into Kerry04 -- and then worked to help a lot of NGOs with their memberships and advocacy online
[14:23:35] <Keegan> Gotta dart back to the other job, I look forward to these logs
[14:23:41] <StevenW> Good next question from Abbasjnr: Since you are the CCO, what have you done for the community since you assumed office. And what are your plans for the foreseeable future?
[14:23:46] <aude> zackexley: thanks :)
[14:24:42] <zackexley> Addasjnr: Well...there's a bit of just getting bearings here... but...
[14:25:14] <zackexley> I think the fellowship program is really important as a way of getting toward the big goal I mentioned above
[14:25:23] <Abbasjnr> ok
[14:25:27] <zackexley> Steven Walling being here is great --
[14:25:35] -*- Philippe cheers
[14:25:42] <zackexley> and Victoria & Maryana are working on a great project
[14:25:48] -*- Theo10011 also cheers
[14:25:49] <zackexley> this is just the beginning
[14:26:04] <StevenW> relevant blog post for Victoria/Maryana: http://blog.wikimedia.org/blog/2010/09/30/two-new-community-department-fellows/
[14:26:20] <Abbasjnr> thanks, Steven
[14:26:23] <zackexley> we need to establish an open process for evaluating new fellows proposals and getting more people working
[14:26:35] <zackexley> but I wanted to start it even before we got to that
[14:26:41] <Mstislavl> Btw, I am Victoria, somewhat confusingly
[14:26:53] -*- Philippe waves at Mstislavl :)
[14:26:54] <zackexley> also: getting the fundraiser started -- or rather, getting Philippe to start the fundraiser!
[14:26:54] <Theo10011> Hi Victoria
[14:26:55] <StevenW> Glad you're with us!
[14:27:05] <zackexley> Hey Mstislavl!
[14:27:09] <Abbasjnr> lol, hi Victoria
[14:27:14] -*- Mstislavl waves at Philippe
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[14:27:32] <Mstislavl> Hi Theo
[14:27:37] <Theo10011> or should I say Dr. Victoria?
[14:27:38] <zackexley> And I moved my family to SF, which was quite a task in itself!
[14:27:45] <StevenW> Next Q from James_F: do you think of your role as helping define us as a "civil society" organisation in our minds and those of the public at large?
[14:28:09] <Mstislavl> No Dr's, please
[14:28:10] <-- Keegan (~chatzilla@wikimedia/Keegan) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[14:28:55] <zackexley> James_F: Well, I don't think so...maybe I should - you tell me. But my first thought is that we are what we are. We're something totally new and unique. Our job outside of our projects is to teach the world how we work, and why this works as well as it does
[14:29:08] <zackexley> the world needs to know
[14:29:30] <zackexley> we just had a conversation for research with a group of donors. One guy said: "Wikipedia is living democracy"
[14:30:07] <geniice> zackexley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEkF5o6KPNI
[14:30:18] <Werespielchqrs> How important do you think it is to get wikimedians interacting across projects, and what do you see as things that would encourage that?
[14:30:27] <StevenW> geniice: LOL.
[14:30:40] <zackexley> WPians can get jaded sometimes. But try to find another institution or enterprise that rivals our movement in terms of self governance and flat our success in work
[14:30:49] <zackexley> and I realize "democracy" is a loaded term
[14:31:24] <zackexley> I don't mean it in the "voting" sense -- but in the sense of people working out a way of living/working together
[14:32:15] <zackexley> Ziko's "tell us" project was a great example of something that got people talking/thinking acorss projects
[14:32:21] <zackexley> we need to see that every year
[14:32:42] <James_F> Consensus collaboration?
[14:32:52] <zackexley> and Victoria & Maryana's project is going to be really interesting: trying to figure out a way to systematically approach the histories of projects
[14:33:01] <aude> zackexley: can you please fill out your page a little (http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:Zackexley)?
[14:33:05] <Philippe> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tell_us_about_your_Wikipedia
[14:33:19] <zackexley> it's really important to tell the *narratives* of what made one project succeed and another ...er...not succeed
[14:33:24] <Ziko> :zackexley: that is the point. we can ask people to tell about their wikipedia, but they do not know how...
[14:33:30] <StevenW> Aude: We've all been trying to find time to fill out our userpages more. :)
[14:33:37] <aude> :)
[14:33:40] <Theo10011> aude, there is more information on his Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zack_Exley
[14:34:01] <Theo10011> maybe copy that over
[14:34:22] <Werespielchqrs> Someties consensus can be better than democracy because the majority has to make concessions to the minority, sometimes it can be wore than democracy because the minority say we know most people want x but consensus means we can veto change.
[14:34:40] <zackexley> some researches try to isolate variables that make for success. And there's nothing wrong with that. But these are historical projects. People have struggled/cooperated/etc... and made it work, or not made it work. Those stories need to be told to inspire people working to make their project a success
[14:34:54] <aude> Theo10011: interesting... thanks
[14:35:03] <Theo10011> np
[14:36:19] <zackexley> Werespielchqrs: i understand that in the wikimedia world "democracy" is often opposed to "consensus" but in a generic/ general use sense consensus is the ultimate form of democracy
[14:36:31] <StevenW> A background Q from Yaron: At some point in the mid-2000s you apparently gained some notoriety by getting the domain "gwbush.com", and placing on it, among other things, doctored photos meant to show then-President Bush doing drugs. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.)
[14:36:33] <StevenW> My questions are: (a) was this site meant strictly as a parody, or was the goal in part to get people to think it was his real website? and (b) do you regret creating that site?
[14:37:17] <zackexley> OK, I'll tell that story. But no doctored photos -- it was a light parody site. No mal intent
[14:38:05] <zackexley> gwbush.com was my first website. lonnnnng story -- but 1999....the bush campaign should have ignored it. But they made it into a big news story
[14:38:29] <zackexley> I was working as a dev in between organizing jobs at a bank. And suddenly CNN, NYTimes,etc are calling.
[14:38:31] <zackexley> It was crazy
[14:38:58] <Abbasjnr> (jokingly) was it also on Wikinews?
[14:39:06] <zackexley> it was the first political campaign parody site, as far as i'm aware. And it actually resulted in a ruling by the FEC that kept expenditures on the web unregulated!
[14:39:44] <dgultekin> I believe you were the reason GWB claimed that there "ought to be limits to freedom"
[14:40:00] <zackexley> yes
[14:40:03] <zackexley> it was bizzaree
[14:40:06] <Werespielchqrs> Sounds like Conservapedia and New Conservapedia. working out who are the parodists and who are the genuine Conservatives can be confusing
[14:40:14] <Theo10011> there was also something recent with glenn beck that was also similar
[14:40:23] <flipzagging> Werespielchqrs: viz. Poe's Law
[14:40:25] -*- Theo10011 waves at Deniz
[14:40:33] <dgultekin> Hi Theo :)
[14:40:34] <flipzagging> But, gwbush.com wasn't that over the top as I remember it.
[14:40:41] <zackexley> it was the day Star Wars I opened...standing in line -- I remember reading the newspaper
[14:41:13] <zackexley> "Saying 'there ought to be limits to freedom' presidential front runner GWBush said he wants to shut down a 29 year old computer programmers web site"
[14:41:19] <zackexley> it was quite a day
[14:41:29] <geniice> Theo10011 the one asking about the rumor that Glenn Beck Raped And Murdered A Girl In 1990?
[14:41:43] <Werespielchqrs> Poe's law http://conservapedia.referata.com/wiki/Flag and fish
[14:41:50] <StevenW> Q from Risker:
[14:41:51] <StevenW> are chapters part of Zack's portfolio, and how does he foresee balancing the different objectives of chapters vs projects
[14:41:54] <StevenW> ?
[14:42:09] <Ziko> zackexley, is this one of these events you don't like to make through but you can laugh afterwards, and tell your grand children?
[14:42:30] <zackexley> Chapters are not part of the Community Dept's portfolio
[14:42:37] <zackexley> but we'll be working closely with chapters on the fundraiser
[14:42:48] <Yaron> Sorry - could you answer the second part of the question - "do you regret creating the site?" (similar to Ziko's question, I suppose)
[14:42:51] <zackexley> I should say HAVE been working with them closely
[14:43:14] <zackexley> hang on - let me stick to chapters for a sec
[14:43:35] <Yaron> No problem.
[14:43:55] <zackexley> Since it's not in my portfolio -- but I really want to understand them better -- can the group tell me their thoughts on the different objectives of chapters and projects?
[14:44:07] <Risker> zack, the balance issue is a pretty important one, especially for projects where contributors cross lots of (physical) borders
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[14:44:24] <Abbasjnr> Whay aren't chapters part of the Community? Can't you use the chapters to get to the community they represent?
[14:44:55] <Risker> and the special access that chapter execs have has been a sore point in some areas?
[14:45:21] <aude> lots of wikimedians are not represented by chapters (e.g. most of the US)... where do they fall in scope of community, chapters, ...?
[14:45:31] <Ziko> there is a peculiar relationship between the projects and the communities. they are not congruent, and some projects "live" in different countries. and, of course, some projects do not really have a country - and a chapter.
[14:45:31] <zackexley> Abbasjnr: I think there are some "brick and mortar" aspects of chapters that make them a nice fit for barry's dept
[14:45:40] <zackexley> of course we do want to work with chapters closely
[14:45:53] <Werespielchqrs> I see some chapters as fundraisers for Wikimedia and some as "owners" of their language projects - geography and charity law will shape a lot of that
[14:46:10] <zackexley> it'll be more like: they're helping us, rather than us helping them. (us meaning the community dept)
[14:46:14] <Abbasjnr> ok
[14:46:32] <Abbasjnr> Ohk. I get your point
[14:46:40] <zackexley> Werespielchqrs: Are chatpers the "owners" ?
[14:47:38] <Werespielchqrs> Not in the UK, but I suspect where language and chapter align, yes they will feel they are
[14:48:08] <Philippe> I think there aren't a whole lot of places where they fit all that neatly :)
[14:48:27] <zackexley> aren't chapters -- as is WMF -- just a subset of the community? sort of a group user within the community?
[14:48:55] <Risker> zack, less than 5% of wikimedians belong to chapters, if I recall correctly
[14:49:12] <Ziko> i have read a lot of sociological studies on user motivations etc., but these really important questions are never asked: what is a wp community in essence? what are the relationships to a chapter?
[14:49:15] <Philippe> Some of that depends on how you define "wikimedians", doesn't it, risker?
[14:49:18] <Abbasjnr> Risker: really?
[14:49:35] <guillom> Philippe, Please define "Community". You have one hour.
[14:49:43] <zackexley> Werespielchqrs: (BTW: I think about your new contributors experiment all the time. I have that in my mind as I think about the kind of projects that the fellowship program could encourage and grow.)
[14:49:46] <Risker> Abbasjnr, it's probably less than 1% of enwp editors
[14:49:49] <Philippe> Guillom, please.... oh, n/m:P
[14:49:54] <Ziko> Do wikipedians think: "WMF, that is far away, but our chapter, where we meet each other, where we talk about "our" wikipedia, that is where the real music plays... ?
[14:50:22] <aude> Abbasjnr: well, there's most of the US (except NYC), Canada, to start with, ...
[14:50:43] <aude> it's a challenge to build a chapter where folks are so spread apart, among other reasons
[14:51:00] <Abbasjnr> oh yeah
[14:51:17] <zackexley> Ziko: is that your experience of the dutch chapter? if so, that is great
[14:51:29] <Risker> there is also the structural issue....it is a lot of work to set up and run a non-profit in a lot of places
[14:51:39] <aude> Risker: agree
[14:51:52] <Philippe> The Dutch are really quite active. I think they probably do as much or more in-person stuff than most chapters, iirc
[14:51:57] <Werespielchqrs> I suspect that the wikimedians who edit across multiple languages probably align less with one chapter than those who strongly align with a home wiki. and of course things like the Aceh incident were potentially wider than just that one wiki
[14:52:01] <Mstislavl> Nobody meets anybody at the chapters. It's a bunch of random users who suddenly have money and direct line to WMF
[14:52:14] <guillom> Errm, no.
[14:52:21] <Ziko> zackexley: really difficult to say, i don't dare without thorrough research. :-) in NL and DE, there is a certain tendency to ... ignore the other Dutch and German speaking nations... difficult to say
[14:53:14] <Ziko> interesting question: where are your loyalties as a wikimedian? if there would be a conflict between wmf and chapters, on which side would you stand? etc
[14:53:22] -*- zackexley lol -- thinking we need a statement about the opinions of fellows not necessarily reflecting WMF
[14:53:38] <zackexley> steven: write that! ;-)
[14:54:00] -*- StevenW adds to his task checklist ;)
[14:54:12] <Ziko> Werespielchqrs: i do edit in several wikipedias, and stick to both NL and DE chapters :-)
[14:54:38] <Mstislavl> Well, definitely will write that on my meta userpage :)
[14:54:53] <Ziko> well, in the end, "chapter" and "wp community" and "wmf" - finally, they are often the same people
[14:56:00] <zackexley> I think the beauty of wikimedia is that people are engaged in probably the largest volunteer collaboration in history -- and it doesn't depend on any "brick and mortar" organization (almost) at all
[14:56:13] <zackexley> so that puts us brick and mortar orgs in a weird place
[14:56:18] <zackexley> both WMF and chapters
[14:56:42] <Werespielchqrs> to Zackexley - thanks for the nice thoughts about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Newt in a very different way I'm hoping http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Death_anomalies_table will get more people working across wikis - its certainly got me editing in half a dozen different languages.
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[14:56:51] <zackexley> I think we (WMF and chapters) have the ability to do great harm to the projects and communities if we're not careful
[14:57:08] <zackexley> and also to be really powerfully productive/constructive users
[14:57:16] <zackexley> so there's a lot of responsibility on us
[14:57:31] <Theo10011> "with great power comes great responsibility...."
[14:57:51] <Risker> good insight, the harmful vs constructive balance
[14:57:57] <zackexley> we really have to get this right. There's never ever been anything like Wikimedia projects. But there have been a lot of official organizations that have wrecked stuff
[14:58:00] <Ziko> well, the organisations have advantages: a clear distinction between "you are in, you belong to us" (and not), by paying a fee. an organisation can make a democratic decision (by majority vote). in a wp community, you often feel that you deal with an ocean ship, big and stable, but also difficult to move
[14:58:43] <zackexley> Ziko: Right, but the solution to difficulty in the wild ocean of wikimedia is not to head for dry land
[14:58:57] <zackexley> we need to stay in the storm!
[14:59:05] <flipzagging> zackexley: +1 on that.
[14:59:12] -*- StevenW nods.
[14:59:18] <zackexley> but yeah, the chapters and WMF can provide safe harbour when needed -- I think that is the best we can hope for
[14:59:24] <Werespielchqrs> And know where the icebergs are
[14:59:39] <Ziko> i meant also that often an important improvement or innovation comes from the DE chapter, and less from within DE wp.
[14:59:43] <Ziko> i like that analogy
[14:59:46] <zackexley> Philippe is telling me we've pushed the analogy too far -- but I want to go farther!!
[15:00:10] <Philippe> I'm just worried we're going to have the Titanic here in a minute
[15:00:22] <James_F> Or a submarine patent? ;-)
[15:00:31] <Theo10011> hah
[15:00:36] <zackexley> Ziko: I agree - but I think it's important to see those innovations as coming from the chapter *as a user*
[15:00:51] <Theo10011> Zack one question
[15:01:12] <Werespielchqrs> I wonder what Swiss and Austrian editors think of the relationship between DE wiki and De project - do they sometimes think of themselves as second class?
[15:01:22] <zackexley> in other words: the movement shouldn't look to the chapter as the only source of innovation. And I know it's not. But this stuff creeps up on us. Because the default of the world is brick and mortar, power-baed orgs
[15:01:36] <zackexley> OK - maybe I'm beating this one topic to death
[15:01:41] <zackexley> what's another question?
[15:01:47] <zackexley> OH! - we only have a minute left
[15:01:50] <StevenW> Yep
[15:01:55] <Theo10011> you have a large background in political community organizing, any projects for any real world collaboration in the short term
[15:02:07] <Ziko> +zackexley: no, it is an important question, but... difficult. :-)
[15:02:10] <StevenW> Yes!
[15:02:14] <Theo10011> after the fundraiser ofcourse
[15:03:11] <Ziko> (Werespielchrs: CH and AT often stand on their toes, but they see that DE simply has more manpower, more possibilities. and they have profit from that.)
[15:03:13] <zackexley> YES -- I would like to refer you to Steven who is going to jump in to help support face to face 10th birthday celebrations
[15:03:20] <StevenW> Yes.
[15:03:31] <Werespielchqrs> I think there would be mileage in setting outrules for how a local history society or similar could interact with us
[15:03:33] <Theo10011> oh the 10th b'day
[15:03:36] <StevenW> So this is one of the group of project I'm working on.
[15:03:38] <aude> zackexley: what about wikipedians who are not part of a chapter. do they fall under community? can they come to you?
[15:03:48] <StevenW> But a very fun and IRL organizing one.
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[15:04:34] <StevenW> Basically what we want to do at the WMF, in addition to our usual communications work around big events, is to help local teams of people organize celebrations for the tenth anniversary.
[15:05:00] <StevenW> This will be both making sure people have all the roles they need filled to get an event to happen.
[15:05:27] <Ziko> (isnt't there a 10th anniversary group on facebook?)
[15:05:31] <StevenW> There is.
[15:05:41] <StevenW> I'll be reaching out to Juliana who owns/runs that.
[15:05:45] <StevenW> As one measure.
[15:06:16] <StevenW> We'll also try to support whomever wants to run a local event (whether that's Wikimedians, student groups, GLAMs).
[15:06:51] <StevenW> So not just parties (though those are welcome too) but maybe editing sprints, photo hunts, or even low key fundraising if anyone is interested.
[15:06:55] <Abbasjnr> yes there is, Ziko
[15:07:13] <Theo10011> looking forward to it
[15:07:20] <Theo10011> maybe a page on meta might help
[15:07:30] <StevenW> There will definitely be one. Several in fact.
[15:07:43] <StevenW> Zack has to go for a meeting.
[15:07:44] <Theo10011> excellent
[15:07:49] <zackexley> Bye everyone