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Movement roles/Working group meeting 2010-12-17

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[15:11] == Jon_H [56a6ae70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-roles
[15:11] <Jon_H> Hi guys.  Sorry I am late
[15:11] <Jon_H> I was trapped in a tube train after someone pushed the emergency buton
[15:12] <aklempert> delphine: kind of proofs your point (the email you sent)
[15:12] <lyzzy> :)
[15:12] <galio> now that's an excuse!
[15:13] <galio> while we wait for Austin... I'd like to put myself back on track
[15:13] <delphine> yeah!
[15:13] <galio> I was thinking on some Latam representatives to interview
[15:13] <galio> but... is there any procedure for proposing people to interview?
[15:13] <Jon_H> yes
[15:13] <Jon_H> We have a page on MR wiki for suggestions of people to interview
[15:13] <galio> I'm all ears :)
[15:14] == Raystorm_ [~Raystorm@242.Red-193-152-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #wikimedia-roles
[15:14] <Jon_H> http://movementroles.wikimedia.org/wiki/Interviews
[15:14] <Jon_H> You can also volunteer there to interview people, too
[15:14] <galio> yup, I'm aware, but I couldn't figure out how do I receive a confirmation
[15:14] <Raystorm_> hi
[15:14] <galio> I mean, suppose I propose somebody
[15:14] <galio> ea Ray, hola ^^
[15:15] <Raystorm_> ^^ se galio hola
[15:15] <Jon_H> Yes, on that page you can either propose someone to be interviewed, or volunteer to interview
[15:15] <Jon_H> who are you thinking we could interview in Latin America
[15:15] <Jon_H> ?
[15:15] <delphine> people, Meet "M", (future) Wikimedia Spain founding member
[15:15] <delphine> "M" aka Raystorm :)
[15:15] <Jon_H> Hi M or Raystorm
[15:15] <Raystorm_> xD hello people!
[15:16] <galio> Jon_H, I'm thinking about those having moderate to serious difficulties in establishing a formal chapter
[15:16] <galio> think Alhen from Bolivia
[15:16] <delphine> ah, "M" stands for Maria, with an accent I can't reproduce on my keyboard
[15:17] <Jon_H> Hi Maria
[15:17] <Jon_H> Those would be great to talk to.  I've already spoken to two folks about Brazil.  I'd love to talk with Alhen from Bolivia, too.  Do you have Alhen's email address?
[15:18] <galio> _and_ those already on track, like the Chileans and the Uruguayans, which are an interesting case because most of them are people recruited by User:Marinna, but not necessarily wikimedians, including some people from academia
[15:18] <galio> Jon, sure I do; I add him to the Interviews list and one of us -not me- then contacts him?
[15:19] <Jon_H> I can contact if you put their names and contact details on the page
[15:19] <galio> María. There you have the accent :)
[15:19] <galio> I'll then add him and some other possible candidates
[15:19] <lyzzy> Jon_H: what about Damian Finol?
[15:20] <Jon_H> I don't know Damian.  Should we talk with him?
[15:20] <bnewstead> I agree Damian would be a good interview.
[15:20] <delphine> lyzzy: hmmm. Not sure.
[15:20] <delphine> Although he could bring in a good examples of real hassles in South America
[15:20] <delphine> especially community wise
[15:21] <delphine> ie. not enough people to push something through
[15:21] <aklempert> sounds like we should talk to him
[15:22] <Jon_H> Does someone have his email address?
[15:22] <lyzzy> me
[15:22] <Jon_H> thx.  could you send it to me or put it on the page?
[15:23] <Jon_H> BTW, Anirudh is doing some interviewing, although he sends his apologies for this chat
[15:23] <galio> on Brazil, I think we could go with Béria Lima, currently on WMPT but actually a Brazilian herself, who was in the original WMBR group but "changed chapters" over some serious disagreements
[15:23] <lyzzy> Jon_H: sure
[15:24] <Raystorm_> are you going to try to contact the mexicans? they seem a little stuck
[15:24] <Jon_H> Great.  The Mexicans would be interesting to talk to, as well
[15:24] <Jon_H> Morgan, have you had any luck connecting with the folks in Japan?
[15:24] <bishakha> hey jon, is the aim to get all or most of the interviews done before the frankfurt meeting?
[15:24] <galio> I'll add them up
[15:25] <Jon_H> Yes, it would be great to spread the net as wide as possible
[15:25] <Morgan> well, one of them is responded, but the date of interview is not confirmed yet
[15:25] <Jon_H> in practice, it takes time to reach people
[15:25] <Morgan> When is the deadline?
[15:25] <Jon_H> we'd like to do as much as possible before the Frankfurt meeting
[15:26] <Morgan> ok, i try to make it
[15:26] <Jon_H> Great
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[15:26] <Morgan> oh, another Japanese just replied me
[15:26] <Jon_H> SJ, you mentioned some folks on the last chat - people who had been PR contact or written grants ...
[15:28] <Jon_H> Does anyone else have any suggestions for people we should try to interview?
[15:29] <bnewstead> Not from me.  I think we have a solid amount to cover within the community.
[15:29] <notafish> Jon_H: can you give a link to the page?
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[15:29] <Jon_H> http://movementroles.wikimedia.org/wiki/Interviews
[15:30] <delphine> merci
[15:30] <Jon_H> de rien
[15:30] <bnewstead> I would like to see some interviews and insights from other global orgs, so we have some reference points for the FRA meeitng
[15:31] <delphine> ah!
[15:31] <delphine> I have a contact with the International ED of Greenpeace
[15:31] <bnewstead> I know you know a lot about global orgs, Jon...and would love to have your insights...
[15:31] <Jon_H> Good point.  I have already spoken with a few folks from other organization.  Does anyone have any contacts that they would like to suggest?
[15:31] <delphine> but that has already been covered hasn't it?
[15:31] <Jon_H> I've interviewed a former head of Greenpeace
[15:31] <bnewstead> plus those of others for our meeting.  That way we aren't too myopic.
[15:31] <delphine> He's the current one :)
[15:32] <Jon_H> I'm happy to talk with him, too, if you want
[15:32] <Jon_H> I'd be curious if anyone has any contacts with organizations like Mozilla
[15:32] <Jon_H> He is the friend of Achal, right, Delphine?
[15:33] <delphine> yep
[15:33] <delphine> ah, I could intervie Tristan Nitot
[15:33] <delphine> head of Mozilla Europe
[15:33] <Jon_H> could we do that together?
[15:34] <delphine> sure.
[15:34] <Jon_H> great
[15:34] <Jon_H> Do you know him already
[15:34] <Jon_H> ?
[15:34] <delphine> let's coordinate offlist
[15:34] <delphine> yes, he's a friend actually
[15:34] <Jon_H> yes
[15:34] <Jon_H> great
[15:35] <Jon_H> Anyone have any more suggestions on who we can interview from peer organizations?
[15:35] <aklempert> wikileaks *duck*
[15:35] <Jon_H> LOL
[15:36] <Jon_H> Do we understand Creative Commons enough, or do they merit an interview?
[15:36] <delphine> I think it might be interesting to talk with Michelle Thorne
[15:36] <aklempert> The UNECSO would be great
[15:36] <bnewstead> Creative Commons?  I think you met them in Gdansk
[15:36] <Jon_H> Yes, I did.  
[15:36] <delphine> she's been involved a lot with international front for CC
[15:36] <delphine> and their efforts to internationalize the structure and such
[15:37] <delphine> I actually think she works for CC international ;)
[15:37] <delphine> she's in the Berlin office.
[15:37] <Jon_H> I have Michelle's contact info and can drop her a line
[15:37] <galio> Diane Peters from CC was in Argentina last month and people from WMAR met with her
[15:37] <galio> I can get her contact info
[15:38] <bnewstead> I'd be interested in learning from AIESEC - they are a global org that works with student volunteers.
[15:38] <Jon_H> Interesting idea.  I have not spoken with them.  Do you know anyone there?
[15:38] <bnewstead> Think we have a lot to learn from them around local organizing and mobilization.
[15:38] <bnewstead> I don't know them at all, but we could cold call.
[15:38] <Jon_H> Yes.  A number of the global NGOs are good at local organizing.
[15:39] <Jon_H> We can certainly cold call AISEC
[15:39] <bnewstead> Another one is Amnesty International - they have a lot of volunteer-based activities.
[15:39] <Jon_H> Yes, very grass roots
[15:40] <Jon_H> Any more suggestions of people to interview, either internally or at peer organizations?
[15:40] <delphine> I'm somehow missing Wikimedia Italia, we don't really have anyone from non-english speaking old established chapters, do we?
[15:41] <Jon_H> Not yet.  We've been trying to encourage them to contribute on the wiki
[15:41] <Jon_H> So far, though, participation on the wiki has been disappointing
[15:41] <delphine> yes
[15:42] <delphine> I was just talking about this with Maria in PM ;)
[15:42] <Jon_H> We've had no comment on our blog
[15:42] <Jon_H> And not much on the wiki
[15:42] <delphine> maybe we should try some one to one outreach?
[15:42] <Jon_H> We should definitely try
[15:42] <Jon_H> The blog is easy to find at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles_project/Blog
[15:42] <delphine> ie. find people who can translate and send to they own communities
[15:43] <delphine> so that people get hooked in their own language
[15:43] <delphine> and then struggle to speak English with us ;)
[15:43] <Jon_H> Sure.  They can also contribute on the wiki, too http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles_project/Initial_Questions
[15:43] <Jon_H> We've had a couple of responses on the wiki http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles_project/Initial_Questions/Responses
[15:44] <Jon_H> For those that do not speak English, it may be easier to comment on the wiki
[15:45] <galio> maybe we should start translating the Initial Questions
[15:45] <Morgan> maybe we can ask our own country chapter to finish the questions first?
[15:45] <galio> and announce-link the translated versions on the respective village pumps
[15:45] <Jon_H> anything you can do to generate responses on the wiki would be great
[15:46] <galio> I mean, I don't think we would get much attention if we post that in es.wikipedia's Café in English
[15:46] <delphine> galio and Maria, I declare you in charge of the Spanish community :P
[15:46] <galio> but I can make a Spanish version and announce it there
[15:46] <Jon_H> that would be great
[15:47] <Jon_H> could you get the responses onto our wiki?
[15:47] <galio> I was thinking in setting up a /es section of our Meta pages
[15:47] <galio> and have them response there
[15:47] <galio> later we/I can translate that into English
[15:48] <Jon_H> that's fine.  as long as it is open and easy for everyone to read
[15:48] <aklempert> galio: great. just do it, it's a wiki
[15:48] <Raystorm_> I can help you with that if you want, galio
[15:48] <bishakha> i can post the link again to many different lists in india/indic languages
[15:48] <bishakha> but people are also getting busy with the 10th anniv
[15:49] <delphine> which is good!
[15:49] <bishakha> so unsure of response now but will try
[15:49] <delphine> use this opportunity to create workshop on the future of Wikimedia ;)
[15:49] <bishakha> good idea
[15:50] <Jon_H> perhaps the 10th anniversary celebrations will generate some ideas that people might want to share on the wiki
[15:50] <bishakha> also: big challenge in India is that communities are unclear about both chapter and Foundation
[15:51] <bishakha> so reading the questionnaire will itself be an education for many
[15:51] <delphine> bishakha: isn't that why we're here for?
[15:51] <delphine> make that clear?
[15:51] <delphine> exactly :D
[15:51] <bishakha> Yes!
[15:51] <Jon_H> important point.  well, if there is confusion, it is a good time to find out what people really want
[15:51] <bishakha> yes, i think so too
[15:51] <Jon_H> let's hear what they need, and build our institutions around their needs
[15:52] <Raystorm_> bishakha, you know tinucherian?
[15:52] <bishakha> i will meet many community members in the next month, so can do some informal interviews using the questionnaire as a guide
[15:52] <bishakha> yes, know tc well
[15:52] <bnewstead> Let's be careful about ambitions for the 10th - it is intended to be a celebration not a workshop.
[15:53] <Jon_H> A quick agenda check: we've covered interviews, and now we are covering participation on the wiki ... before we get to the hour do people have any issues on the meeting in Frankfurt in January to bring up?
[15:53] <bishakha> fair enough wont derail :)
[15:53] <bnewstead> On India, I think Bishakha, Anirudh and I have a pretty good perspective on things - better than most places at least
[15:54] <bnewstead> I would like to know the basic agenda for FRA, if you can quickly lay out your thoughts.
[15:54] <Jon_H> Some folks on this chat may need to leave in a few minutes ... if anyone needs to leave and has issues to bring up that we have not covered ... please share  :-)
[15:54] <Jon_H> Basic agenda is really three fold: understand what we have heard, synthesize that into a point of view, and then plan how to share that with the movement
[15:55] <Jon_H> On the first point, we will have heard from people on the wiki and by interview
[15:55] <Jon_H> On the second point, we need to discuss what we have heard and formulate a draft charter
[15:55] <Jon_H> On the third point, we need to plan out how we take our draft to the movement and improve it interatively
[15:56] <bishakha> i guess my only question is that with low participation on the wiki, will we have heard enough perspectives?
[15:56]  * aklempert is not so sure if we will already be able to do a draft
[15:56] <bishakha> so getting broader participation still seems key to me
[15:56] <Jon_H> Getting broad participation is key
[15:56] <delphine> aklempert: I take it a draft could even start with "what we don't want there"
[15:56] <Jon_H> I think, in reality, that we will keep continuing to hear more from people as we go
[15:56] <delphine> it's sometimes an easier way to satr :)
[15:56] <delphine> *start
[15:57] <aklempert> delphine: yep
[15:57] <Jon_H> Yes.  I think we have to start somewhere
[15:57] <Jon_H> Once we have sketched something out we can improve it
[15:57] <aklempert> and the good thing is: we will get more participation once we come up with something
[15:57] <Jon_H> Without a doubt
[15:57] <bnewstead> While I agree, we can't be held hostage by lack of participation.  We are reaching out and we have diverse perspectives in the group
[15:57] <bishakha> arne: good point. and we will atleast have enough to discuss broad themes
[15:57] <delphine> yep
[15:58] <Jon_H> The more clear our draft, the more clear will be the feedback
[15:58] <bnewstead> I think a proposal (if we can agree on one) would give folks something to react to.
[15:58] <delphine> bnewstead: the only caveat is that poor participation also means more difficulties to get this accepted in the longer run
[15:58] <lyzzy> mh, I am not really sure
[15:58]  * delphine thinks we should just write outrageous stuff in this draft charter ;)
[15:58] <bishakha> also there do seem to be some related lively discussions on internal-l
[15:58] <aklempert> delphine: depends on the reactions
[15:59] <bnewstead> delphine: agree. Most critical is that we can show that we made every effort to engage and hear.
[15:59] <lyzzy> maybe poor participation only means that it is not that intesting topic for other pwople
[15:59] <Jon_H> Exactly.  From Frankfurt  we will have six months until Wikimania to improve whatever we draft and continue to listen and learn
[15:59] <Jon_H> The discussions on internal-l have been very illuminating - the strings started by Milos and Lodewijk
[16:00] <delphine> lyzzy: I do hear you here
[16:01] <lyzzy> :)
[16:01] <delphine> but I do believe that maybe we've just not come across
[16:01] <delphine> as in
[16:01] <delphine> we haven't made it interesting
[16:01] <Raystorm_> lyzzy, I think poor participation may be due to little knowledge of this initiative
[16:01] <delphine> maybe an "executive summary for dummies" might help
[16:01] <delphine> I know I am a dummy here :)
[16:01] <lyzzy> delphine: that's a great idee
[16:01] <delphine> and sometimes I think simple words would help
[16:01] <Raystorm_> if you don't speak english or troll meta constantly, it's difficult to find out about MR :)
[16:01] <delphine> ie. "we're trying to overhaul Wikimedia as you know it"
[16:01] <Jon_H> Sure.  We tried to do that with http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles_working_group
[16:01] <delphine> or something crazy like this :)
[16:01] <Jon_H> I am sure someone can make it better
[16:02] <lyzzy> Jon_H: yes, but that is a good summary but maigt not be attractive enough to motivate participation
[16:02] <bnewstead> I'd love to know the extent of the outreach that Austin has done.  I thought he was charged with getting the word out.
[16:03] <Jon_H> He agreed to do the outreach
[16:03] <aklempert> bnewstead: me too
[16:03] <Jon_H> We are not quite sure where he is, though
[16:03] <Jon_H> Has anyone heard from him?
[16:03] <bishakha> on facebook
[16:04] <bnewstead> So I think we have an action item to find Austin and work on turning up the volume on outreach.
[16:04] <aklempert> i pinged him 30 minutes ago on google talk (indicating that he's online), no response
[16:05] <Jon_H> Has anyone seen any outreach since our last chat two weeks ago?
[16:05] <bnewstead> I also think that Lizzy's point is good.  This isn't the most exciting topic in the Wikimedia universe for most ;)...
[16:05] <delphine> bnewstead: for a majority
[16:05] <delphine> but there is an active minority that would be _extremely_ interested
[16:06] <delphine> look, galio got Maria to come here ;)
[16:06] <bnewstead> Though it might become moreso, if we have proposals that provoke that minority you speak of.
[16:06] <Jon_H> Let's see if we can engage those who might be interested
[16:06] <bishakha> so would be good to hear from the active minority
[16:06] <Jon_H> Definitely
[16:06] <Raystorm_> have you tried spamming the village pumps of the different wikis?
[16:06] <delphine> Raystorm_: I am not sure our minority is there
[16:07] <delphine> it's probably more on chapters or prospective chapters mailing lists
[16:07] <delphine> there are dormant lists
[16:07] <delphine> like WM US
[16:07] <delphine> they're dormant, but there are people there
[16:07] <delphine> so if we send an email
[16:07] <delphine> we might probably have reactions
[16:07] <delphine> galio's cooperation initiative is another list we should definitely spam
[16:07] <galio> delphine: once I have the Spanish translation
[16:07] <delphine> lots of people in the organisational stuff.
[16:07] <galio> I'll spam in Iberocoop
[16:08] <delphine> galio: yes, I'm just building the pressure here ;)
[16:08] <galio> ah, eso estaba diciendo :)
[16:09] <delphine> jaja
[16:09] <delphine> Alice, should we take on German? ;)
[16:09] <delphine> lyzzy that is :)
[16:09] <bnewstead> I need to sign-off.  Thanks for the discussion.  Would be great to start laying out an agenda for FRA, so we all come prepared.
[16:09] <lyzzy> yes
[16:10] <bnewstead> Happy holidays all!
[16:10] <Raystorm_> happy holidays!
[16:10] <bishakha> Happy hols!
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[16:11] <galio> I have to leave, too
[16:11] <galio> Pleasure to meet you all
[16:11] <galio> Happy holidays!
[16:12] <aklempert> i think we're through with the agenda anyway
[16:12] <aklempert> or is there anything we should discuss today?
[16:12] <Jon_H> I think we are
[16:12] <Jon_H> And I think we have covered all of the issues that people brought up
[16:13] <Jon_H> Is there anything else that people want to discuss?
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[16:13] <Jon_H> Or should we wish everyone happy holidays?
[16:13] <bishakha> ok, bye now and next chat in the new year
[16:13] <Jon_H> Our next chat is at 1500 UTC on Jan 7th
[16:13] <Morgan> I gotta go too, my school exam hasn't ended yet until next tue
[16:13] <Jon_H> Happy holidays Bishakha and Morgan!
[16:14] <Jon_H> Happy holidays everyone else
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[16:14] <Morgan> You too :p
[16:14] <aklempert> great! happy holidays everybody
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