Proposals for closing projects/Deletion of Wikipedia Masri (Egyptian Arabic Dialect)

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it.

This is a proposal for closing and/or deleting a wiki hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation. It is subject to the current closing projects policy.

The proposal is rejected and the project will be kept open.

  • A Language Committee member provided the following comment:
    This proposal was not properly filed at all (see e.g. in this box the missing information about notifications; the box was also not added by the proposer). I don't see why others should take effort to bring this proposal to a state in which it can be discussed, especially when it doesn't have large chances of succeeding. --MF-W 17:40, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Type: 1 (routine proposal)
  • Proposed outcome:
  • Proposed action regarding the content: should be transferred to Wikimedia Incubator
  • Notice on the project: none?
  • Informed Group(s): Wikimedia Egypt, although has not been notified (?)

I here ask for the deletion of Wikipedia Masri : aka Wikipedia in the slang language of Egypt. my statements are the following :

1. Masri : aka Egyptian Arabic Slang Language is not a formal human language, it is slang ! having a Wikipedia in a slang Arabic, will lead for many problems, the main leading one : more Arab-speaking wikipedians will be starting more wikipedias in other slang dialects, therefore we shall have someday in the future more than 30 Wikipedia's in Slang dialects ! each Arab speaker would want to start a Wikipedia of his own dialect ! and we should keep in mind, that not only regional states have their own dialects, the cities within those countries and states have more specific slang's and dialects, and this will make the true value of Wikipedia drop down when it will be filled with slang's !

2. how valid is a Slang Dialect : lets not forget it is a dialect : meaning there is total biding code to how to spell and write or read ! a dialect differs from a man to another ! for example in slang English : the word The : is turned into da and de ! as also it is a slang : a slang doesnt have a biding grammar or what so ever ! it is just what goes with the mouth ! a slang is saying what you feel your mouth can easily say ! this is how a slang develops ! and another thing is that in slang we might have sounds that do not exist in the formal language : for example in many slang arabic's we have the sound /g/ and there is no specific way to express this sound ! sometimes they use the Farsi letters sometimes else, here are four letters that all represent /g/ in slang arabic's :چ ڠ گ ڇ, and there are many more !

3. today we have a Wikipedia in a slang non-grammatical nor organized language, so why cant we have a Wikipedia in lolcat language, it already translated the bible : teh lolcat spek iz organizd !

4. if you accept to have a wikipedia in a slang language of a regional state, this means you now need to have a Wikipedia to each state in the US at least, having Wikipedia Masri, is a huge deal of turning Wikipedia into politically divided than nations and cultures contributing together, DO NOT TURN WIKIPEDIA INTO A POLITICAL DIVISION !

5. in Egyptian Universities, (and rest of the world), a scientific report - scientific page, in a slang dialect, even their own slang, is not acceptable and that report/page will never be regarded as true or even scientific unless in a formal Language like Formal Arabic Language !

6. having Wikipedia in this slang language or any other will lower the validity and the standards of Wikipedia : how would something valid/true/scientific and reliable as Wikipedia have a SLANG language, there is not scientific family in the world that would recognize a slang as a valid way to express science and studying !

7.when we have this Wikipedia Masri, that is already leading to more Wikipedias in other Arabic SLANG Dialects, the Arab-speaking Developers and editors will be divided in more than 30 Wikipedia in stead of all of them developing the one true formal language Arabic Wikipedia, thus they are destroying and corrupting in stead of uniting and building wikipedia, and expanding Wikipedia Arabic

8. treating Slang Egyptian Arabic as equal for other formal Languages is a discrimination against the other slang-speakers of the world, thus for example we must also have Slang Arabic English, it is as the same level as Egyptian Arabic Slang,

and so I've presented my statement, with Logic and reasoning ! please respect and don not vandalize ! as I stress on you understanding #1 & #2 !

Ahmad Masalha ! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asm17hawkeye (talk)

Comments[edit]

Some concerns:

  • Please categorize this as type 1 or 2 in the template above. It should probably be 2 since it has content.
  • Proposed outcome: are you sure you want deletion instead of closure?
  • Have you notified the wiki of this proposal? This is a requirement per policy.
  • Have you notified Wikimedia Egypt of this proposal? You should.

Some comments on each point (feel free to reply inline):

  1. Masri : aka Egyptian Arabic Slang Language is not a formal human language, it is slang ! [...]
    LangCom already decided in Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Egyptian Arabic that Egyptian Arabic is eligible for a Wikipedia. Why should this decision be overruled years later? It has an ISO 639(-3) code, which is LangCom's main criterion IIRC. Re: more Arabic dialect proposals, see:
  2. how valid is a Slang Dialect : lets not forget it is a dialect : meaning there is total biding code to how to spell and write or read !
    Apparently LangCom considered it a valid language. It has an ISO 639-3 code.
  3. today we have a Wikipedia in a slang non-grammatical nor organized language, so why cant we have a Wikipedia in lolcat language, it already translated the bible : teh lolcat spek iz organizd !
    This is ridiculous (although the idea for lolcat Wikipedia was already discussed here). Masri is spoken. As far as I know, lolcat is not spoken in the real world by cats or humans. It's not even considered for being eligible since it has no ISO 639-3 code.
  4. if you accept to have a wikipedia in a slang language of a regional state, this means you now need to have a Wikipedia to each state in the US at least
    Aren't the differences between Standard Arabic and arz much greater than differences in English between US states? Besides, English dialects don't have ISO 639-3 codes. Seems like a straw man.
  5. in Egyptian Universities, (and rest of the world), a scientific report - scientific page, in a slang dialect, even their own slang, is not acceptable and that report/page will never be regarded as true or even scientific unless in a formal Language like Formal Arabic Language !
    I'm not sure this is a real argument.
  6. having Wikipedia in this slang language or any other will lower the validity and the standards of Wikipedia [...]
    See directly above.
  7. when we have this Wikipedia Masri, that is already leading to more Wikipedias in other Arabic SLANG Dialects[...]
    See #1.
  8. treating Slang Egyptian Arabic as equal for other formal Languages is a discrimination against the other slang-speakers of the world, [...]
    Is this like #4 above?

PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:53, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Most importantly, see quote from closing projects policy:

  • Not meeting the current Language proposal policy requirements is not a valid reason.
  • Keep in mind that Wikimedia/LangCom does not define what is a language and what is a dialect. We follow international ISO standards which may sometimes have a broad interpretation of language. One should generally not propose a project for closure because it is allegedly written in a "dialect" rather than a "language."

PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If nobody else notifies the community by tomorrow UTC, I will. PiRSquared17 (talk) 18:26, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't. It should be the burden of the proposer to do the appropriate notifications.. If nothing happens here anymore by tomorrow UTC, let me close this proposal. --MF-W 20:29, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@MF-Warburg: what now? PiRSquared17 (talk) 15:49, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, no and no. This request is a nonsense. --Kolega2357 (talk) 16:27, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Easter kept me busy. It's done now. --MF-W 17:40, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.
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