Requests for comment/Welcoming policy

This is a subpage; for more information, see the Requests for comments page.

There seems to be strong support on Talk:Welcoming policy to adopt Welcoming policy as a global policy, however, it was never officially brought to an RfC. Thus, I request comments concerning whether or not the welcoming policy shall be adopted. Here is its full text as of 20:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC):

A wiki is only allowed to post welcome messages to users if their account was originally created at the wiki, or the user has at least one non-imported edit there.
Some wikis post welcome messages to the talk page of new users accounts, for example saying welcome and linking to important policy and help pages. Many user accounts at a given wiki were created automatically by the global account system when a logged-in user from another Wikimedia wiki randomly clicked a link to the wiki. Accounts can also be created automatically for users who have never visited the wiki, if the user once edited a page at another wiki and it was later imported with page history. In both cases, the user may have no knowledge of the wiki or its language, and can be confused or worried by unreadable messages. Posts to user talk pages trigger a notification at other wikis and often an e-mail in the language of the wiki.
Welcome messages may both be manually written and use templates. Allowed welcome messages may both be posted by editors and bots. A plus or home icon under "Method" at Special:CentralAuth may show where an account was originally created. As of 2020, imported edits appear to generally not be included in the edit count at Special:CentralAuth.
Wikis are free to make stricter local rules for welcome messages but not to allow more messages.

JJP_{Mas_ter} (she/they) 20:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Users who never created an account anywhere can also receive notifications of welcome messages at wikis they haven't edited, due to the new temporary accounts. For example, Special:CentralAuth/~2025-33904-40 hasn't created an account and has only edited the English Wikipedia but has the temporary account at several other wikis. They were notified of an Uzbek welcome message and posted at en:Special:PermanentLink/1326656252#Inintelligible Notification from Programmerbot. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:47, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support as author of the proposed policy. Welcome messages at wikis I never edited are not welcome. Many confused users at the English Wikipedia have made concerned questions about unreadable posts in a foreign language, often in a script they don't even know. Some worry their account was hacked. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Mach61 (talk) 22:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support for the same reasons given by PrimeHunter above. Schazjmd (talk) 22:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Gelasin (talk) 22:50, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the above. I was also very confused today to receive a welcome message at the English Wikisource, my most recent edit there was in about 2017. If it confuses someone like me, who is less than a month away from 20 years of editing Wikimedia projects, it must be even more so for brand new editors. Thryduulf (talk: meta · en.wp · wikidata) 01:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Thryduulf, the page history seems to tell a different story. That welcome message has been on your talk page since 2005 (as a transclusion) and 2006 (when a bot subst:d it). What happened this week is that someone correct Special:LintErrors on your talk page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:02, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was still confused, but it seems that the source of my confusion was a different "helpful" edit. My opinion is unchanged. Thryduulf (talk: meta · en.wp · wikidata) 09:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as proposer; since creating this RfC, I literally got one of these at Farsi Wikibooks. I have never edited there. JJP_{Mas_ter} (she/they) 01:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support * Pppery * _{it has begun} 02:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Kudpung (talk) 04:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support because creating a large number of SUL account is not avoidable for cases such as Global reminder bot. Also (i) what happens if a wiki ignores the policy? and (ii) I thought that imported edits will show up as long as the option to attribute edits to local users were set. Leaderboard (talk) 04:39, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Having a message show up "welcoming" you to a site simply because you clicked a link to it feels, quite frankly, creepy and inappropriate. If sites are going to place welcome messages on user talk pages automatically at all, they should wait to do so until the user makes an edit or another similarly logged action. Omphalographer (talk) 05:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Look, I don't love receiving these – and if a wiki is posting these, I've probably already received theirs – but I do understand the impulse, especially for very small wikis, which get relatively few users and needs to encourage people to stick around. Also, newcomers often wonder why "the system" isn't set up to feed them information as they need it, and an automated welcoming message is one of the ways to do that. Commons did this for years, and while I believe that they have voluntarily chosen to stop, I think there might be some valid reasons to shove links to their rules in everyone's faces before you make an edit/mistake there. But in the category of "bad policy writing", as written, this prohibits all welcoming messages until after you've made an edit – even a hand-written, 100% personal note from a friend. As written, if you happen to notice in Special:RecentChanges at a sister wiki that a friend's account had been autocreated, you are prohibited from leaving a note on their talk page that sounds anything like a welcoming message, but it'd be totally fine for you to post a note saying "Go away, you stupid jerk". I suggest to you that a rule that prohibits hospitality, but not other forms of contact, is a very bad policy. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Millions of welcome messages may have been posted to users with no edits. I have never heard of a rude post to a user with no edits. The local wiki can deal with that if it ever happens. The rude poster would be unlikely to know or care about a global policy. This policy is meant to address a real issue which affects numerous users. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:31, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty much every place that has automated or systematic ones has spammed me personally – usually twice. As I said, I don't love these messages. But I don't mind messages that are truly posted individually.

I've seen multiple blocks of users with no edits. One of them was blocked for having one too many characters in his username. An admin at idwiki spent years blocking editors with numbers in the middle of their usernames, because that was w:en:l33t speak. Arwiki (unless they've changed it recently) has an unusually stringent username policy, rejecting usernames that contain places and groups associated with regional politics. Would you really prohibit them from posting a message to a zero-edit user that says "Welcome. We have some policies, including an unusually strict one about usernames. You can change your username by..." while accepting a message to that same zero-edit user that says "I've blocked you for violating the username policy"?

BTW, the "policy" as written says that if I'm on a sister project, I can't post a message on your User_talk: to welcome you. But it would allow me to go to any project where you have made 1+ edit to post that welcome. I doubt that's intended ...but it is what y'all wrote. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the main reason for a post is to inform of a username problem then I wouldn't consider it a welcome message just because it includes a welcome. Has anyone ever spammed welcome messages to a user everywhere they have an edit or account? I don't think a global policy would have stopped them but the user is free to report it and a reviewer of a report is free to consider the circumstances, e.g. that the spammer isn't acting as "A wiki" posting welcome messages. I don't think we should write various special rules for hypothetical cases which may never happen. Wikimedia rules are not like penal codes which are usually enourmous and require highly trained lawyers. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you write a policy to encompass almost everything, then it will someday be enforced against good things, by someone who has poor judgment or a vendetta.

If you want to stop the thing you actually care about, then write what you actually care about: "Do not systematically post generic welcoming messages to all auto-created accounts, especially if that person has made enough edits on other SUL-connected wikis that they are likely to know about this rule. Experienced editors often find these messages irritating, especially when they can't read the local language. Once they've made any edit locally, this rule no longer applies." WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support automated messages per Leaderboard. It's also very antithetical to have these "welcoming bots" welcome long-term abusers and spammers and adds an extra layer that could easily be avoided. --SHB2000 (t • c) 07:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
could it welcome only autoconfirmed users who are not banned at another wiki? this could help rule out the spammers. i agree that welcoming spammers is an issue thanks. Gryllida 01:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would also be nice if it can be feasibly implemented (beyond my skillset :(). --SHB (t • c) 00:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose On the current wording I'd be breaching policy if I saw an editor at English Wikipedia working on Icelandic sagas and created a welcome message at their is.wikipedia.org talk page. Creates far more problems than it appears to solve. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 07:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you assume that an editor working on Icelandic sagas in English speaks Icelandic at all, let alone fluently enough to usefully contribute to the Wikipedia in that language? Thryduulf (talk: meta · en.wp · wikidata) 09:27, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Thryduulf Because I am a glass half full kind of person. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 21:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure that plenty can be written about the Icelandic sagas based on a high-quality translation and/or non-Icelandic language research. The mere idea that if a user writes about the Icelandic sagas this means they understand Icelandic isn't true. And if a user occasionally reads Icelandic Wikipedia (which they would only do if they understand Icelandic, and would cause them to have an account there), it still doesn't follow that they want to have the account there and to be welcomed. Animal lover 666 (talk) 01:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Goldsztajn: The way this is worded would make me assume that it applies not to individual people, but to the wiki itself (e.g. using automated welcoming bots). @PrimeHunter: please let me know if I'm wrong. Besides, you probably shouldn't do that, as not every person who knows what Iceland is is fluent in its language. JJP_{Mas_ter} (she/they) 14:59, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The intention is to stop widespread welcome messages from users or bots representing the wiki. A global policy means the posters can be asked to stop. It's unlikely anyone will care about a single message formulated individually for the recipient. Neither party will probably know the policy. I wanted a simple rule and not a bunch of legalese to try to exclude a few rare cases which will probably happen anyway with no objections. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:25, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Making it clear it refers to automated edits would be the simplest thing. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 21:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I said "users or bots". It also refers to manual edits. They are usually made with templates or copy-pasting with the same user making numerous identical messages. I have never seen or heard of an individually crafted welcome message to a specific user with no edits. If they actually happen then I doubt the suggested policy will affect them in practice. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Making it clear that it refers to "widespread" messages would help a lot. Or do you actually want a rule that says nobody is allowed to post even one message that starts with the word 'Welcome' under any circumstances? "It's simpler to just make all of it be against the rules, but everyone is reasonable, so we won't enforce it when it's actually a good thing" has been proven wrong many times, on wiki and in real life. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the policy says widespread then many recipients of unwanted welcome messages from strangers will feel they have to check this particular poster has done it widespread before pointing them to the policy and asking them to stop. That's a big annoyance when you have already wasted time on the post and the wiki is usually in a language you don't know so it's hard to check edits, and it may turn out that the user is just starting on their mass posts. Some small wikis who feel they really need the attention may look for loopholes like making mass posts from dynamic IP's or multiple accounts. We could add that posts to users you know are excepted. Has anyone ever heard of an individually crafted welcome post to a stranger with no edits? That sounds creepy to me and could really concern some recipients, e.g. women worrying about their safety. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:03, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let me check this: You're saying that it takes more time to:
Receive a message (zero seconds).

Click the link in Echo/Notifications to see what it's about (five seconds).

Determine that you don't like it (five seconds).

Make a choice: Do nothing (0 seconds, and skip the rest of the list), revert the welcome message (10 seconds), or check the page history to see who posted it (let me turn on my timer – seven seconds, so let's round up to 10).

Check that person contribs to see whether they're posting all the same things (10–30 seconds).

Leave a note on the User_talk: page for the person/bot owner (28 seconds in my simulated test, but let's say two minutes).

than to:
Receive a message (zero seconds).

Click the link in Echo/Notifications to see what it's about (five seconds).

Determine that you don't like it (five seconds).

Come to Meta-Wiki and find the policy page (60 seconds).

Read enough of the page to make sure that it's a real violation (60 seconds if you're a native English speaker and twice that if you're not).

Figure out where you're supposed to complain about Serious Violations of Policy (60 seconds).

Go back to check the page history to see who posted it so you can ping them (10 seconds).

Come back to Meta-Wiki to write and post the complaint (probably about five minutes).

Check on your complaint repeatedly during the next week to make sure it's being addressed (by whom?) to your satisfaction (five minutes if someone responds but nobody argues, and much more if nobody responds and you decide to spam "Please see" notes around, or if they argue with you).

Discover that there is no enforcement mechanism, so if the local wiki disagrees and wants to keep doing this, or if they just ignore you, there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it.

By my estimate:
Option 1a ("do nothing") costs you 10 seconds.

Option 1b ("revert the welcome") costs you 20 seconds.

Option 1c ("complain locally") costs you two or three minutes.

Option 2 ("have an Official™ policy") costs you ten times that.

Remind me again which one is wasting my time? WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nearly all my welcome messages have been in languages I don't know where it's challenging to just make simple navigation without setting the interface to English. Some were in right-to-left scripts which confuse the hell out of me. The user may have other edits between welcome messages. A wiki may try to circumvent a lenient policy by rotating who welcomes new users. I have 28,000 edits to Wikipedia help desks and have seen many confused and worried users. I'm spending time on this proposal to help others, not myself. If I see a violation, I would inform the violator of the policy and see if they stop on their own. Most violations would probably be from users who don't know the policy but will accept it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:19, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 08:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Happy Editing--IAm Chaos 23:23, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Even if I publicly announce that I speak some given language, that doesn't mean that I want to be welcomed by all wikis which speak it. Unless I take an action that makes it clear I want to be on that wiki, the wiki should leave me alone. Animal lover 666 (talk) 01:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This seems like a reasonable practice but it's completely unnecessary to enshrine this as a policy. ElKevbo (talk) 04:14, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Takipoint123 (talk) 06:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support an end to the disruption. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 15:54, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Let's say you been a Wikipedia editor for 10 years and you decide to edit let's say Wikidata too. It would be hurtful to your ego to see a Wiki welcome message again.WikiEditor5678910 29 November 2024 (UTC)

The proposed policy allows welcome messages at wikis where you have edits. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:04, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will want to see phab:T314549 be resolved first.--GZWDer (talk) 04:00, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support if adjusted to automated edits to address WhatamIdoing and JJPMaster's concerns – ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email · w:en) 02:20, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support without question. Local issues should be resolved individually and any accompanying local policy explanations do not conflict with the Welcoming Policy. In addition, for very small wikis WhatamIdoing mentioned to, it is valid to start a more specific, productive conversation like the one I received on envoy. --Tmv (talk) 08:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This RFC seems to be conflating several different things. First: most wiki's don't do what is being claimed (i.e. that the wiki itself is making a welcome message). There are some projects that do, such as hiwki, ptwikivoyage, and fawikibooks (example page) using mw:Extension:NewUserMessage. In more of the use cases being described in the discussion, a contributor is publishing a talk page revision - not the project. So then what? Let us assume this RFC passes, then a project contributor publishes a revision welcoming someone to their project - what is the violation remedy to be? (e.g. Do you expect stewards to lock their account? - Do you expect a body such as UC4 to work on desysoping all of the local project administrators if they don't stop their user?) — xaosflux ^Talk 21:24, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will this need to remove that extension from approval on WMF wiki's (or disallow certain parameters?) — xaosflux ^Talk 21:29, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What seems to annoy people most is the fact that their Echo/Notification button lights up, so perhaps Ext:NewUserMessage could be updated to not show the alert outside of the wiki. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:06, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The policy is certainly meant to include bots and users at the wiki. I don't expect violators to be blocked right away. They can be informed of the policy and nearly all of them would hopefully respect that and stop. Otherwise they might eventually be blocked. If local admins refuse to block then somebody at meta could block the violator. Desysopping local admins for inaction would be crazy. mw:Extension:NewUserMessage defaults to $wgNewUserMessageOnAutoCreate=false which would be allowed by the policy. Many wikis change it to true via wmgNewUserMessageOnAutoCreate in https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php. That would be against the policy. The extension messages are made by User:New user message. The name helps explain what is happening to many users who know some English but not the local language, although it could be interpreted as a user message which is new instead of a message to a new user. If it didn't cause cross-wiki notifications or emails (for users with that preference) then I could live with an exception for the extension. If the extension waited for an edit by new users then it would of course be allowed by the currently proposed policy. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:01, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just an aside: users may disable use talk message notifications globally, and instead opt-in only on projects they care about. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:13, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per my arguments above, this seems excessive overreach to prevent communities from being able who they may communicate with. If you don't want account autocreation on read, take it up at phab:T21161. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:06, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is perhaps something to discuss as a potential guiding principle for the automated messages, but the current wording is a bit broad. It is unclear who "A wiki" refers to, for example. CMD (talk) 08:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Frostly (talk) 17:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tend to support, any bots should either continue run by, and only by obeying that policy, or should cease their auto-welcomism. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, and as Xaosflux points out I'm not sure how this would even be enforced. Projects tend to welcome users to make them feel welcome. For new users that welcome can be helpful, for returning users that welcome can be annoying. Fixing lint errors on welcome messages can be even more annoying. But a couple seconds of annoyance isn't worth the effort of dictating to hundreds of projects what they can and can not do when welcoming new users. Meta and the global policy space needs to maintain a very light touch in order to maintain individual project autonomy; this proposal goes beyond what I feel we should be looking to regulate from the centre. – Ajraddatz (talk) 05:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"a couple seconds of annoyance isn't worth the effort of dictating to hundreds of projects what they can and can not do" - How many user-seconds of annoyance and confusion are you willing to accept for the sake of making your life easier on the policy side? Because right now we must be up to hundreds of thousands. — Hex • talk 13:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. There is nothing wrong even with just requiring welcoming bots to trigger on the first edit someone does, not on the registration itself. It is a very big annoyance currently that random wikis artificially inflate their edit counts and badger all users with welcome notices. It is also entirely unnecessary: most of those messages could just be shown to actual users it needs to reach after they register on wiki (via interface messages), random people that autocreated account do not need it at all, and I imagine all vandals and LTAs also get the same messages. To the enforcement part of it: bots should be asked to be rewritten (or blocked until they are), extension should be disabled until rewritten. It is time to say enough to the spam. stjn^[ru] 06:15, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To add on this: there is nothing legitimate, helpful or necessary to me about sending messages to random passers-by. If the first thing any other website did to you after you visited it is ‘send an unsolicited message on the first visit’, you would rightfully be repulsed by that. Wikipedias should be held to the same standard. There is nothing wrong with welcoming someone after an edit, there is everything wrong with welcoming someone just because they visited a link. stjn^[ru] 01:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose pending an answer on the talk page about informing the projects affected. --Ghilt (talk) 08:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose While this RfC might appear logical in theory, its enforcement in practice is likely going to create more problems than it solves. - XXBlackburnXx (talk) 08:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which problems? What is problematic about making sure that users do not get unsolicited messages just for visiting a wiki? stjn^[ru] 09:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. This is years and years overdue. Also, something that hasn't been mentioned here is that when you're welcomed to another wiki due to imported edits, those edits may contain traces of a prior user name, for example in summaries of page moves (nothing can be done about that). Someone creating a user talk page for you fractionally increases the chance of those traces being seen, which may well be undesired. — Hex • talk 10:27, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Can be annoying, but don't see this as much of a problem.--A09|(pogovor) 20:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, with caveat of only disallowing automated messages. Such welcomes have nearly no advantage over sending out after first edit and artificially take up a ton of disk space and editcount statistics, as well as annoying the heck out of a lot of people. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:00, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Adding my comment on this affecting logged-in readers more here Aaron Liu (talk) 03:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now pending an investigation whether the welcome messages help to engage more users. regards, Gryllida 01:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doing a study requires manpower, which I don't think we have. I don't see how welcoming before the first edit has that much advantages to justify any opposition. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:30, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support—weird this was ever allowed in the first place.—Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 04:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rules are written in blood. Aaron Liu (talk) 18:36, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, welcome messages on wikis that you don't intend to contribute is not okay. It also creates occasional notifications for crosswiki patrollers, where when they have an account autocreated, are sent. ToadetteEdit (talk) 19:05, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I understand the intent here - a lot of welcome messages can be annoying - but this is basically unenforceable and is likely to make more work than it reduces. Imo, just click 'mark all as read' and ignore them if you're not interested. Vermont (🐿️—🏳️‍🌈) 18:49, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And to whoever closes this: as far as I can tell, there has not been sufficient notice to communities who practice frequent welcoming. If this passes and then someone attempts to enforce it, it would be valid (in my view) for local communities to note that they had not been informed. There's a high bar to overriding local practice with a global RfC and, when it's something as widespread as this, the users who would be affected need the opportunity to comment. Vermont (🐿️—🏳️‍🌈) 18:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, I kinda agree. Does anyone have a list of wikis that do this? Aaron Liu (talk) 01:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If there should be a notice about this RfC, it should be to all wikis, not just to wikis that like the spam. stjn^[ru] 11:27, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Why so? Wikis that use it are the ones that are going to be affected. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:16, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Users at all wikis are affected if they can get rid of posts considered spam by many. Only notifying wikis which systematically do this seems like only asking prolific spammers for input on an anti-spam proposal. It will give biased participation. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:58, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Stopping communities from activating bots or extensions to indiscriminately autowelcome is very enforceable. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Some wikis post important links and tools with these messages that might otherwise be hard to find. I don't think global interference with their tutoring is needed. e 16:45, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Another way to address the underlying issue of this RFC is to stop creating accounts automatically/without the user requesting them/being aware they exist. e 12:08, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This RfC as worded already allows wikis to message accounts with no edits that were specifically created on the wiki. Whereas your proposal would make a bunch of technical workflows harder for no benefit and with significant privacy implications (since users might edit wikis without noticing that they are editing without an account). stjn^[ru] 22:03, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, there are protections in place to avoid editing when logged out. There is a security risk involved in the automated creation: it publicly logs the users' reading habits. Also, people may get blocked because some other account has been automatically created. e 13:42, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
it publicly logs the users' reading habitsLogging only what language or wiki someone visited the first time they do so hardly provides any information. Aaron Liu (talk) 13:45, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, once you get blocked over that, you might feel differently. e 13:51, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How about the mainmenu? Aaron Liu (talk) 16:57, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I had this multiple times and it caused me to lose my temper more and more every time. I actually think welcome messages should be banned completely as almost all wikis apparently already have a built-in feature to welcome users via an interface message -they can be improved- when they enter an editing mode for the first time (and I think the best way to do this is to have a global abusefilter or so preventing sending messages to users who don't have any edits there which would also prevent many abusive actions), but even this proposal will make things significantly better if it gets approved. RuzDD (talk) 12:37, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't see anything inherently wrong with this. Just mark the talk page posts as read and move on. I agree with the aforementioned comment that it is clearly an attempt to encourage users to edit, and be a part of the communities of, smaller wikis. Patient Zero^talk 07:01, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Patient Zero How can a user edit or be a part of the community of a wiki that is in a language they don't know? RuzDD (talk) 11:44, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, Patient Zero's edits look just like what I've ever focused on Incubator: someone who really can't understand a certain language is "actively contributing" test projects in that language, just try to increase Catanalysis data for langcom members to say "hey this is an actively contributed test project, come on, approve it please." A language project "maintained" by non-speakers would really be a nightmare thing, that will just be reported through rich-medias near future, just see scowiki problems. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:03, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support Make sense. Phương Linh (thảo luận) 07:22, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support though ideally this would only apply to automated messages. Elli (talk) 06:04, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support: I've seen a lot of such useless talk pages created of Hindi Wikipedia where the receiving users then post spam/off-topic material on that page. Same for vandals and LTAs when an autocreated talk page motivates them to post vandalistic content there. IMO this proposal would hugely reduce that. Svārtava (t ɕ) 07:36, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I do not mind welcome messages that are automatically sent when an account is created, however I strongly dislike receiving welcome messages that I suddenly get after my local account has existed sometimes for years and after I already made edits there long ago. --MF-W 10:12, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support I do think some limited welcome messages could be helpful in the case of an in person event (like if it was an Wikipedia editathon and a Commons only user is attending). As long as a user/bot is not welcoming without reason I'll be fine with it. So like Elli, ideally only applies to automated messages. Justiyaya (talk) 02:49, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I've received numerous unwanted and unhelpful welcome messages from editions I have never edited. The welcomes are surprising, pointless, and clutter notifications. Users shouldn't be welcomed somewhere they've never participated. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 20:19, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This policy is going to cause unnecessary confusion more so than it solves. I feel like encouraging the mentioned practice is good, but forbidding users to welcome others using policy is clearly not a good idea. I am okay with the policies being applied for welcoming bots.--BRP^ever 04:59, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Only applying to bots is also good enough for me. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Bots are what makes informing thousands of users of our policies feasible. Strainu (talk) 08:12, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Why would you need to inform them of the policies when they're just readers? And this proposal would not ban bots that only welcome users that have made edits on the wiki. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:01, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support limit the giving welcome messages to humans, specially at Commons, where even bots' talk pages got welcomed. --Amitie 10g (talk) 07:03, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. If users receive meaningless notifications, they will be encouraged to ignore legitimate ones. Moreover if they have email notifications enabled for talk page edits (which I believe is the default) then this generates unsolicited email, potentially in a language the user doesn't even speak. Email service providers don't view this kind of thing favourably, and it could hurt the deliverability of actually desired emails from @wikimedia.org domains. the wub "?!" 16:09, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose it's not a big this to just click read and move on. This seems to be a solution in need of a problem fr33kman 14:25, 6 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support if the restriction only applies to automated messages per Justiyaya and WhatamIdoing. It's silly to be welcomed on some wiki you've never edited, but it's also silly to restrict event organizers from welcoming their participants or friends welcoming each other just because the recipient hasn't made any edits yet. OutsideNormality (talk) 01:31, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support Getting a message that you don't understand is at best pointless, at worst confusing or even worrying. Anyone saying "what's the problem? just mark it as read and ignore it" are missing the point – if you don't know what the message says, how do you know that it can be safely ignored? (And yes, I've heard of the likes of Google Translate, but why should we force users jump through unnecessary hoops like that, just so that the system can continue to send out unnecessary welcome messages?) --DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:17, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Automatic translation is pretty good these days, you know? Strainu (talk) 05:32, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Translation can be good but it is more steps for someone to take upon receiving it. Even if I could use google translate I would still be confused and a bit annoyed if I got a talk message I could not understand on a wiki I do not use. GothicGolem29 (talk) 16:39, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support Welcome messages from wikis I don't participate in are (somewhat) annoying, especially those I can't read. --dring sim 08:57, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support I think the policy should only apply to bots and bot-like edits (that is, edits that are made indiscriminately and in batch). There could be legitimate reasons for posting such welcome notices. For example, an account creator/mentor holding an in-person event might want to make their mentees feel more welcomed. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 01:12, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, I'm support this proposal because I see no value in welcoming passers-by and LTAs, not because these messages are annoying. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 18:22, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose To those who say welcome messages are spam, please just don't visit wikis that "spam". About the "confused users at the English Wikipedia" concerned about "unreadable posts". Besides the fact that there are very powerful translation tools nowadays, as mentioned above, one may wonder what they were looking for on Wikis written entirely in those "unreadable" languages. I think the solution has already been mentioned above: stopping Wikis from automatically creating accounts that an user may not want. --Nenea hartia (talk) 07:57, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
please just don't visit wikis that "spam" That would be difficult. Besides when technical users like me go to other wikis to look at a technical issue or example someone gave, or when someone says "this is how wiki X layouts this page, we should take a note from them!", users can accidentally visit foreign-language wikis from search results and then get confused by the notification bell ringing; they can easily think that someone hacked their account to edit on that wiki. How do you suppose users visiting wikis should act on their reasons to visit the wiki without visiting the wiki? Sorry if this message doesn't make much sense, I caught a cold today. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:01, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You're not forced to do any of it. If you're not happy with the local rules, just don't contribute to that project. Strainu (talk) 19:03, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Readers logged-in on other wikis are sent messages without making any logged action. The point of this RfC is so that only contributors get welcome messages. Aaron Liu (talk) 04:12, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The point of the "welcome" messages is, at least for some wikis, to inform users of the local rules. Doing that after an edit defeats the purpose of that message for the very dubious benefit of not flooding a few editors with notifications. That's not a positive change. Strainu (talk) 12:41, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Far more people register an account and just read articles than intend to edit and need to read the rules. This is a positive change. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:04, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with Aaron. I'm the type of user that needs to work with multiple wikis, and getting random messages is confusing and irritating (in fact, it often is even if I've made an edit, but that isn't the subject of this RfC). It's not about whether I can read/understand the message or not. Leaderboard (talk) 10:15, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The only users that actually need to work on multiple wikis are stewards (34) and maybe ombuds (12) + a few people from the WMF. Less than 100 people overall. The rest of us choose to do so and when doing so must accept to follow local rules. Strainu (talk) 12:45, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to welcome every user either. "need" is a very bad angle for this IMO as this is a volunteer project. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:05, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. In addition to Nenea hartia's points which I second, I would also add that this would add a significant burden to smaller wikis for the (doubtful) benefit of a few users who get a lot of welcome messages. We at rowiki use an extension to welcome the users. If this RFC passes, we would have to disable it until it is adapted to this new requirement and welcome the users by hand. I could potentially support a requirement to have an English translation of the welcome message. Strainu (talk) 08:06, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't see how those messages are doing any harm, and in my experience, they usually contain a sentence or two that state: "If you don't speak the language of this wiki, then you can turn to this wiki's ambassy [here] or ask for help with your request [here]." That's quite helpful if you, for example, are visiting this wiki due to some inter-project report about some problem that concerns this wiki project. Nakonana (talk) 12:57, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support A welcome message in a language that I can't read (rather creation of the talk-page that's hardly supposed to be used ever in my life) only because I either renamed a file on Commons, or globally renamed a user -- has always been annoying, if not spammy, as others say above. This crazy autowelcoming needs a stop. _signed,Aafi ^(talk) 14:57, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It is neither harmful nor annoying. It's just a message you see it one time, If you're engaged you can refer to it other times. So don't forget that many people need this welcoming message. --Doostdar (talk) 20:15, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support We, on Wikivoyage/de, do it not by bot, but manually. The work is mostly done be one contributor only. We got some complaints about it a few times. Mostly people thought their privacy rights were violated, because they have never been registered at Wikivoyage, which is right actually. Sure, those people did not know why the got this message and that there is one account for all Mediawiki wikis. Besides I do not see any advantage in doing this. One edit should be required to get a "hello". -- Der Fussi 21:35, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The German wiki community is quite large. Other languages have much less contributors and they might prioritize spending their time on other things than checking which new user made an edit but didn't receive a welcome message yet. I received my welcome message on dewiki 1 year and 4 months (!) after making my first edit there[1][2], despite the fact that dewiki is the second largest wiki project. Now imagine how long it would take to get a manual welcome message on a small wiki project. Nakonana (talk) 10:14, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All automated tools need to do is check if users have made an edit. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:29, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Nakonana I talked about German Wikivoyage, not German Wikipedia. Some new user do not know, that Wikivoyage is a sister project and assume a privacy violation problem. We got such accusations already. -- Der Fussi 06:14, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support The only automated welcome messages I have received so far were in projects where I didn't speak or wrote the language and were more like an annoyance. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 09:06, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support--Plutus^{💬 🎃} — Fortune favors the curious 10:18, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. This is counterproductive: for the sake of not disturbing a very small minority consisting of a couple of experienced editors (who, by the way, should be wise enough to ignore automatically sent messages when they are visiting wikis they never intend contributing to), this RFC virtually proposes to cease sending welcome messages to newcomers. Manually adding welcome messages takes considerably more time than it takes for experienced readers to read the messages they receive. There are better alternatives. For example, create a new global preference that once enabled will disable any alerts when New user message creates or edits one of your user talk pages. --Paloi Sciurala (talk｜contribs) 15:25, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Bots can still be used to welcome editors, they just have to do it after their first edit to that wiki rather than before. Thryduulf (talk: meta · en.wp · wikidata) 16:56, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
But that won't solve what most seem to be complaining about. It looks like people are visiting foreign language wikis to do some maintenance work (such as updating file names), in other words: they edit those wikis. If that's the case, then they'll still receive a welcome message, so then, what's the point of this RfC? Nakonana (talk) 17:13, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's a different issue. A lot of us get messages just for visiting - that's the point of the RfC. Leaderboard (talk) 18:00, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Let me rephrase your argument: "let's create problems for the many (patrollers) just to solve the problems of the few who are bothered by receiving a bunch of notification". Strainu (talk) 11:26, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Strainu It's more than that. Users generally do not like spam, no matter what. And this is basically spamming, just for visiting a wiki (and nothing else). Also see Peter (the wub)'s argument. Leaderboard (talk) 16:53, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Leaderboard: A lot of us get messages just for visiting, and a lot of us don't want those messages. OK. Then the simplest and most convenient solution is to add a preference that prevents New user message from creating the "You have a new message" alert. --Paloi Sciurala (talk｜contribs) 14:30, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Paloi Sciurala If the community so decides, I'm fine with the solution you describe. However, (i) in many cases, these messages are sent by actual users. (ii) does not solve the main issue on why these users are spamming visitors. Leaderboard (talk) 16:54, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Leaderboard: Have you ever received a message on a wiki you've visited, but never edited, from a human? My global account is linked to a lot of Wikimedia wikis (648, if I am not mistaken), and I don't recall receiving messages from actual persons on wikis I've visited without having edited. --Paloi Sciurala (talk｜contribs) 16:42, 16 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Paloi Sciurala Yes, نقاش المستخدم:Leaderboard - ويكي الجامعة and نقاش المستخدم:Leaderboard - ويكيبيديا as examples. Another: [3] and wiktionary:ru:Участник:WelcomeUserBot and সদস্য বাৰ্তা:Leaderboard - অসমীয়া ৱিকিপিডিয়া for instance. While clearly bots, they are not the usual "New user message" account so a measure targeting only that account will not work. Leaderboard (talk) 17:02, 16 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Creating a list of bots to mute should not be very difficult. --Paloi Sciurala (talk｜contribs) 14:39, 17 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How would you label a new user message as a new user message for the software to distinguish it, noting that we still want user-specific warning messages to create notifications? And making new preferences alone takes a lot more work than just having the welcoming extension not welcome users who haven't edited. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:12, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Generating cross-wiki notifications for unneded welcomes is useless. --Vellion Eagle (talk) 20:56, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose per WhatamIdoing, Goldsztajn, Ajraddatz, XXBlackburnXx, Vermont, e, B R P, Nenea hartia, Strainu, Doostdar, Paloi Sciurala Accipiter Gentilis Q. (talk) 07:53, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support Malparti (talk) 12:43, 16 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Welcome message should be sent to only those who are registered in the local Wiki. The current practice of welcoming all new users neither helps the Wiki nor the new user in any way; it only helps the welcoming users to inflate their edit count. Also, the welcome message should be sent automatically as soon as the new account is registered. This helps in retaining the new users' interest to some extent, particularly those who simply register and never come back. __Chaduvari (talk) 06:46, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Chaduvari I think you've misunderstood the proposal. Leaderboard (talk) 06:30, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ohh! @Leaderboard, if you are referring to this part of my message - "Also, the welcome message should be sent automatically as soon as the new account is registered. This helps in retaining the new users' interest to some extent, particularly those who simply register and never come back." - then, probably, the misunderstanding is justified. I can clear it if required.__ Chaduvari (talk) 14:09, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Chaduvari You should - the "registered" bit makes people think that you want a message to be sent as soon as the user's account is created. That's exactly what people don't want. Leaderboard (talk) 15:34, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Leaderboard, What I meant was "those users who created their account in the local Wiki" shall be welcomed automatically. __ Chaduvari (talk) 22:21, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I get a bunch of these every time I go to another language wiki just to translate that article with my browser to English (to do my due diligence before a deletion nom). Most of these languages I don't speak and will never edit in. The vast majority of multilingual editors/readers are aware of the language versions they can competently edit in/read. Not a fan of welcome messages anyway. --Rolluik (talk) 11:04, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Totally impractical to enforce and overreach from the global community again. I'd go further than Fr33kman said, it's not a solution begging for a problem it's a "solution" that'd only create problems and more friction. If a local community doesn't want it let them get rid of it themselves but let's not enforce ideas on them because we can't be bothered to click the notification away. With all the energy spent on this discussion, why not just have an opt-out system? --Ferien (talk) 15:25, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
How is it impractical to enforce? Just reconfigure the relevant extensions and bots to check edit count, and add relevant guidance to wikis' welcoming etiquette. It's not like this would get any user blocked.
why not just have an opt-out system?
That is much harder to implement. Either you'll have to make a new database column (pretty expensive AFAIK), or you'll explode the amount of queries to metawiki page content. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:33, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Opt-out mechanisms also require people to know both that they can opt out and how to opt out. Practically that means you're going to need instructions in (at least) the language of the wiki and English included with every message, and those messages will need to make it clear that the opt-out relates to all wikis in all languages, significantly increasing the bloat of messages that are sometimes also already long - and this will not help someone who does not speak either language. Thryduulf (talk: meta · en.wp · wikidata) 06:34, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Aaron Liu, my main point with enforcement is what happens when a wiki violates those guidelines? Have stewards overturn local decisions, start blocking users and bots? These wikis don't have the welcoming bots enabled for fun. They have actively decided to do so. And now we are actively overturning that decision due to inconvenience. I just personally really dislike the attitude of cross-wiki patrollers having to deal with a single welcome message so we should now go and overturn local decisions because we can't be wasting a second by clicking a notification away. Every minor task you can argue adds up to millions of seconds lost because it's done on a huge scale, that is just the way it is. As of the opt-out system, I'm just putting ideas out there. We have global preferences for allowing emails from new users, I imagined this would be a similar setup but I'm happy to stand corrected on that. --Ferien (talk) 17:30, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It would be enforced just like any other of the Category:Global policies. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:57, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It would be highly confusing for non contributors to get welcome messages in languages they do not understand and annoying too(an editor above even said some have said it was a violation of policy too.)I see no real benefit to doing that it makes much more sense to approve this policy so that stops happening.GothicGolem29 (GothicGolem29 Talk)
Support. It is naive to believe that everybody who accidentally clicks on wrong langcode comes into the wiki in order to become a major contributor. Maybe there are users speaking over 400 languages and having over 400 hours of free time every day. But I am not member of that exclusive group. Taylor 49 (talk) 19:11, 17 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have a bot that sends such welcome messages on arywiki. I don't mind modifying it to send messages only to users who created an account or made an edit there. But this policy would have to be approved by arywiki community.--Ideophagous (talk) 21:24, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Ideophagous: It's a proposed global Wikimedia policy for Category:Global policies. Local projects don't have to approve global policies, they have to follow them. It's global because local welcome messages affect many users of other wikis with no interest in the local wiki. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:14, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @PrimeHunter. How do you expect this to be enforced locally other than through consensus? Even if it's just a formality, an announcement and discussion will likely still have to take place. Unless this involves blocking bots that break the global policy. Another solution would be notify users who visit a wiki for the first time that they will get a new account there, and what this may imply, perhaps with an approval button. Ideophagous (talk) 20:51, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Ideophagous: I only have user rights to be part of enforcement at the English Wikipedia where I'm an administrator but we already follow the proposed policy. Let's worry about enforcement if it actually becomes policy and users don't stop when they are simply notified of the policy. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:39, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support, tired of what's essentially cross-wiki spam just because I happened to click on an inter-language link. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:55, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support in which this should only apply to automated messages, reducing the amount of unnecessary notifications from wikis where a user might not understand a different language. Codename Noreste (discuss • contribs) 02:43, 20 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Both annoying for users and of little to no added benefit for the wikis that do it (compared to only welcoming users who edit / create an account directly). -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:33, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]