Jump to content

Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Saint Lucian Creole French

Add links
From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki
​
submitted verification final decision

This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval and will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

A committee member provided the following comment:

There do not seem to be problems with the eligibility here. --MF-W 22:07, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code acf (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Saint Lucian Creole French Language name in English
Language name Kweyol Sent Lisi Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q3006285 - item has currently the following values:
 Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality LTR Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL acf.wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name Wikipédja "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Carribean/Fort-de-France "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

Proposal

[edit]
  • We want to build a Martiniquean Creole Wikipedia because the Martiniquean Creole is an important language for many people. Indeed, there are almost 400,000 inhabitants in Martinique, and there are many Martiniquean people who live in hexagonal France.
  • Martiniquean Creole is recognized by the French Ministry of Culture as a "langue de France" (language of France), alongside with Alsatian, Basque, Breton, Catalan, Corsican, West Flemish, Franco-Provençal, Norman, Occitan, Picard, Tahitian, and Walloon languages, knowing that these twelve languages have their own Wikipedia.
  • In addition to that, since year 2008, Creole test is possible at Baccalauréat, and there are different tests for each of the four Creoles existing in France : Guadeloupean, Martiniquean, Guyanese, and Reunionese. These tests are made as "Langue Vivante Régionale" (Regionale Living Language) alongside with Breton, or Corsican again for example. This has been possible thanks to the Collectif pour le Créole au Bac dans l'Hexagone, that made several petitions, and met Ministers. All petitions have had many signatures.
  • There are many books written in this Creole, and about this Creole. For exemple, there is Ti-Prens Lan (The Little Prince ; ISBN : 9782917623213). The orthography is normalized by the GEREC-F (Groupe d'Études et de Recherches en Espace Créolophone et Francophone).
  • We make this Wikipedia with the ISO 639-3 code "acf", hoping that the definitive page could use the code "acf_MQ", to underline the specificity of Martiniquean Creole with Saint Lucian, Dominican, Grenadian and Trinidadian ones, and the specificity of each of these languages. (This follows a recommendation by Joan Spanne, working at the SIL, that you can read further).


[edit]


Annex : E-Mail sent by Joan Spanne :

[edit]

"Dear Maxime,

Thank you for sending the form to request a change to the code element for Guadeloupean Creole French [gcf]. There was a related request in 2009 treating these language varieties and others of the region, the documentation for which may be viewed at http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/chg_detail.asp?id=2009-069 In particular, please see the RA Comment file for the reason this request was rejected, and its relevance regarding varieties in Guadeloupe and Martinique.

In short, the Registration Authority recognizes that Guadeloupean Creole French and Martiniquean Creole French should be considered separate, and that the variety of Martinique should be more closely aligned with [acf] (known in the standard as St Lucia Creole French, but called by other names in neighboring island nations). This is not reflected in the current Ethnologue 16th edition record. The change request comment explicitly recommends that the Ethnologue should make this correction.

To be very explicit in designating all these language varieties, we recommend using both the ISO 639-3 language identifier and the appropriate Country identifier from ISO 3166, according to the scheme recommended in RFC 5646 (documentation may be found at http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=5646 see especially page 13)

Specifically, and with no further request or application to any standards body, the following language tags may be used:

Guadeloupean Creole French (in Guadeloupe) gcf_GP

Martiniquean Creole French acf_MQ

Saint Lucian Creole French (in Saint Lucia) acf_LC

Dominican Creole French acf_DM

Grenadian Creole French acf_GD

Trinidadian Creole French acf_TT

I hope this is sufficient to make clear the distinctions required for the language varieties of concern.

Best regards,


Joan Spanne

SIL International, ISO 639-3 Registration Authority"

Discussion

[edit]
  • I agree with Anixx1, this test project should encompass all of the Antillean Creole French dialects, it would have a higher chance of building a community than to simply have this dialect alone. Abrahamic Faiths (talk) 00:01, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • A comment from the language committee member. The language is eligible, as the table already says, but this request needs more clarity about a few points:
    1. What is the language's own name (autonym)? First, the letter "r". According to a 2001 SIL Saint Lucian Creole dictionary (cited in the English Wikipedia), the letter "w" is used in the name of the language, and the letter "r" is only used in some loanwords. So "Kréyol Sent Lisi", which is given currently in the table, looks incorrect.
    2. It's important to specify whether it's a common project for varieties of Saint Lucia, Martinica, etc., or something specific. I am currently not sure if it's possible to have them all in the same written standard. This is something that speakers and linguists who know these languages can help decide.
    3. Whatever name is chosen must be unambiguous. Many languages have the word "Creole" in their name, so the name must be not just the word "Creole" with spelling adaptation, but something more specific. See a more detailed explanation in the section "Determining the autonym" on the page mw:Manual:Adding and removing languages. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:51, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hello, I know I am very late but I am a Grenadian/Trinidadian Creole speaker, I do think it would somewhat be better if St Lucian, Grenadian and Trinidadian were on their own as they are closer to each other than the other ones (Split them into Upper and Lower Antillean). Or if that is not preferrable then on the Antillean creole pages the author can clarify what dialect it is written in. KeyolTranslater (talk) 07:51, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
merged from duplicate request

You can also refer to external documentation or websites. Sign your request by ending your statement with: --KeyolTranslater (talk) 15:08, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that Creole deserves a proper Wikipedia page, the language is starting to be preserved throughout St Lucia, Grenada, and Trinidad (and there is already an active community in Guadeloupe and Martinique), although each island has a slightly different version they are all mutually intelligible (There is most likely over 1 million people who can read/speak/know a version of Lesser Antillean Creole) I will be able to make some pages (I have already made a page about Grenada in Antillean Creole). Thank you in advance --KeyolTranslater (talk) 15:08, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@KeyolTranslater Per w:Antillean Creole, it means to be:
  1. Guadeloupean Creole, test project already existing, as well as a RFL page
  2. Saint Lucian Creole, test existing and RFL is eligible
  3. San Miguel Creole French (scf), that's the only one without test project yet, is your request about this one?
Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:43, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
St Lucian Creole is the closest although I was more requesting Grenadian/Trinidadian creole, but I don't think there are enough people, who will read and write in it, so It might have to join St Lucian in like a group for Lesser Antillean Creole (excluding Guadeloupean and Martinican). Maybe if that wiki is created each page should clarify which version it is in, there are some differences in spelling and words but they are all mutually intelligible.
Thanks, KeyolTranslater (talk) 07:47, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@KeyolTranslater In this case, I'd love to see if this request is suitable for merging into Saint Lucian one? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:23, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I believe that is correct, I've already done some things on the Wikimedia incubator St Lucian Creole version, I do think however that every page should have a notice in English (and creole) at the top of the page stating exactly what version of creole it is as there are slight differences (Imagine UK English and American English, intelligible but also different in ways). KeyolTranslater (talk) 07:30, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Did anyone against such a merge? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:39, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if anyone is against it, I doubt it though KeyolTranslater (talk) 09:09, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also not sure how the St Lucian project is going, from what I've seen it's kind of died out (or I have missed something but it appears that it doesn't have a lot of traction) KeyolTranslater (talk) 13:32, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@KeyolTranslater your project sounds great! what happens next?
Will you go ahead and start these 2 steps:
I&I22 (talk) 14:59, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the information, I was a bit stuck, I shall do these and hopefully we can get more people to help and join. (Preserving Creole is one of my passions, I am also pushing the Grenadian government to introduce it into schools, so hopefully this Wikipedia will help future students) KeyolTranslater (talk) 15:49, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
How shall I create the active test project and the translations (I have made one translation already and can make more if required) KeyolTranslater (talk) 15:50, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@KeyolTranslater So you're suddenly meaning Grenadian Creole French? But that doesn't have an ISO code, for starting a test in that Creole, you have to apply for such a code first, see this for instructions on it. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 22:15, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No I don't mean specifically Grenadian Creole French, I mean Lesser Antillean French (St Lucian, Trinidadian and Grenadian) although it would have to use the St Lucian ISO code. But I propose that every page have a specific mention at the top stating which dialect it is in, to make it easier for people. KeyolTranslater (talk) 07:59, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I think my one here and the (stagnant) St Lucian one should be merged to create a bigger Lesser Antillean French Creole KeyolTranslater (talk) 11:27, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
How do I create the test project? KeyolTranslater (talk) 09:24, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've boldly merged your request to this eligible one, rv me if someone else still against on doing so. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:52, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Retrieved from "https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Saint_Lucian_Creole_French&oldid=29179906"