Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Central Morocco Tamazight

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Moroccan Tamazight Wikipedia

main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Central Morocco Tamazight
submitted verification final decision
Applications-system.svg This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval, will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert and notify the Board of Trustees for a possible veto.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code tzm (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Central Moroccan Tamazight Language name in English
Language name Tamaziġt/ⵜⴰⵎⴰⵣⵉⵖⵜ Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q49741 - item has currently the following values:
  • en label = Central Atlas Tamazight
  • native label (P1705) = tamazight
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = dialect / Atlas languages
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) =
  • writing system (P282) = Latin script, Tifinagh, Arabic alphabet
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 3,000,000
Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community Sympatico (NP), Eko, Dalinanir,ⴰⴷⵔⴰⵔ,Yougarten (NP),
You can optionally list your user name if you are an active contributor to the test wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links w:Berber languages w:Riffian language w:Atlas Tamazight w:Chelha language
  • [1]
  • [2]
  • [3] || Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Files should be uploaded to Commons, but if you want, you can enable local file uploading.
Notes: (1) files on Commons can be used on all wikis; (2) this setting can be changed afterwards; (3) uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info); (4) localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons
Optional settings
Project logo File:... 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone Continent/City "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit maniphest task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)

Proposal

Since the other Tamazight proposals have been rejected (or so I thought), and I wanted to see an actual Tamazight Wikipedia, I started this proposal. Besides Morocco, about a population of 150,000 in France speaks Central Atlas Tamazight. I hope this may help those who speak this language. What do you think? --41.250.229.16 00:47, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Arguments in favour

  • Support Support is spoken by more than 20 million people in Morocco and Europe (immigrants). why shall we have an icelandic wikipedia if we don't have a tamazight one?? Sympatico 20:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
What has Icelandic to do with it ? GerardM 11:22, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Support Support I am all for a Tamazight Wikipedia, but in Which Tamazight ? the language being currently standardised within IRCAM the Tamazight spoken in Algeria ? or both ? this is the main problem. Khalid hassani
  • Support Support I have to create a wikipedia Amazigh, the language which is popular in many asian and african countries has the right to be among the Wikipedias. Hatim000
  • Support Support Une Wikipedia en berbère du Maroc central (ou braber), je suis pour, puisque j'ai précisément entrepris d'étudier cette langue. Etant débutant, je serai peut-être incapable d'apporter mon concours au projet, mais cette initiative mérite d'être soutenue. Yves30 21:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
    Translation: "A Wikipedia in Moroccan Central Berber (or Braber), I am in favour, since I have just begun to study this language. Being a beginner, I will perhaps be incapable of bringing my support to the project, but this initiative merits being supported." —translated by Shanel.
  • Support Big Support Central Moroccan Tamazight is a living language and it's spoken by an important number of people ,and it has a valide ISO code (tzm) what means that she had to get her wikipedia like all languages in the world --Zanatos11 18:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Support Support POUR Je suis tout à fait d'accord pour la création d'un wikipédia en tamazight car c'est une langue parlée par plus de ?? million de personnes, et puis c'est une langue vivante qui possède son système d'alphabet vieux de milliers d'année
    Translation: "'Support I fully agree with the creation of a Wikipedia in Tamazight because it's a language spoken by more than 4.5 million people, and besides it's a living language which has an alphabet system thousands of years old." —translated by Shanel.
  • Support Support support Locuteur de la variante rifaine tamazight rifaine, je me sens très proche de cette région voisine tant au niveau parler que culturel, je suis plus qu'intéressé par ce projet et j'apporte un support logique et j'apporterai mon aide pour l'édition des articles. --Eko 19:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
    Translation: "As a speaker of the Rifain variant Rifain Tamazight , I feel very close to this neighbouring region, as much on the spoken level as the cultural, I am more than interested by the project and I bring a logical support and I will bring my help for the editing of articles." —translated by Shanel.

* POUR Je suis tout à fait d'accord pour la création d'un wikipédia en tamazight car c'est une langue parlée par plus de 4.5 million de personnes

je suis pour et prêt à contribuer dans la création de wikipédia en Tamazight en utilisant les deux caractères Tifinagh et latin ou un seul parmi eux. Ceci dans certains domaines: Langue et Culture, Histoire, Géographie, Toponymie... Atlasi amasin

  • Support Support Fort : je supporte bien sûr très fort et j' ai y contribue. les langues tamazight sont des langues vivantes et plus parlé au Maroc que toutes autres langues, se sont des parlers de peuple marocain. Dalinanir --ⴷⴰⵍⵉⵏⴰⵉⵔ 21:13, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
  • support if there is a fluent user.Luciferwildcat (talk) 03:39, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Support A language with millions of speakers needs a free encyclopedia :-) --Dvdgmz (talk) 16:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Arguments against

  • Oppose Oppose Kein aktives Test Project. Deutschlehrer 14:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
  • NO oppose how will you write your caracters ? while you don't have keyboards for that ... and native speakers are really rare, living in really isolated places, they don't have access to wikipedia, who will contribute ? or even get profit from reading it ? The main goal is just to say that you guys created a new language for wikipedia isn't it ? no seriously, if nobody is gonna read it, it's useless, and what will be the difference with the already accepted project (kabylie) ...--LogicBloke 16:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose Moroccans are Arabs and using the Arabic Wikipedia, and some of them using French and English Wikipedia, it is foolish to create this project, this "language" is not actually a language, and do not use in practical life --albebas (talk) 18:34, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
    • Sorry?? You can oppose for other reasons but you can't say that is not a language, it has lots of speakers and is recognized by Marocco Constitution --Dvdgmz (talk) 20:36, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

General discussion

  • (1) Quelques réflexions à propos de ce projet. Le choix de la graphie, évoqué semble-t-il dans les votes ci-dessus, reste bien sûr l'épineux problème à résoudre. J'ignore dans quelle mesure l'avis du non-amazighophone que je suis peut avoir un quelconque interêt pour la communauté concernée, mais je m'exprime parce que ce projet m'inspire beaucoup de sympathie.
  • (2) Je crois tout d'abord qu'il serait prudent de renoncer d'emblée à toute graphie phonétisante (= on écrit comme on prononce). Un contributeur de Meknès ne prononçant pas de la même façon qu'un autre de Khnifra ou de Ouarzazate, ceux-ci vont immanquablement écrire les mêmes mots de façon différente (rendant radipement les articles illisibles), ce qui produira d'incessantes corrections, et, sans doute, d'inévitables guerres d'édition entre contributeurs de différentes régions. Une graphie phonétisante ne pourrait à la rigueur fonctionner qu'à condition que l'ensemble de la communauté s'accorde sur un parler particulier « arbitrairement choisi comme parler de référence » de la future encyclopédie : mais cela me paraît utopique, car les contributeurs ne pratiquant pas ce parler se sentiront inévitablement frustrés d'être obligés d'écrire avec l'« accent » des autres.
  • (3) Il me semble que seule une graphie orthographique est envisageable pour ce projet. Or nous le savons, le berbère ne possède malheureusement pas encore de véritable orthographe incontournable, partagée par la communauté depuis des générations ; ou plutôt, elle en possède plusieurs, mais qui sont des orthographes « en construction », non encore entrées dans l'usage. Dans ce cas, laquelle choisir ? Une suggestion : puisque le dialecte tamazight du Maroc central concerne le seul Maroc, pourquoi ne pas adopter les principes orthographiques actuellement diffusés dans les écoles marocaines par l'intermédiaire de l'IRCAM, et d'en faire la référence du projet ?
  • (4) Il ne resterait plus alors qu'à choisir un alphabet (deuxième problème, distinct de la question de l'orthographe), soit l'alphabet latin, qui a l'avantage d'être universel, c'est-à-dire connu de presque tout le monde et facilement accessible sur n'importe quel clavier, soit les tifinaghs, qui eux en revanche, sont beaucoup moins répandus, mais qui ont l'avantage d'appartenir en propre à la culture amazighe.
  • (5) Il est vrai que tout cela (choix d'un système orthographique et choix d'un alphabet) demandera des efforts à bon nombre de futurs contributeurs, lesquels ont probablement l'habitude d'écrire le berbère « comme ils le prononcent », mais il me semble que dans une encyclopédie, qui plus est une encyclopédie « participative » comme Wikipedia, on ne pourra pas faire l'économie d'une véritable orthographe normalisée. Yves30 21:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
  • (6) Je reprends ce que vous disiez auparavant, en tant que locuteur du rifain, je m'efforce de rédiger mes articles en faisant bien attention que mes articles soient compris par le plus grand nombre, je n'écris pas comme je prononce mais j'adopte une graphie qui fasse en sorte que les mots soient identifiables par tout le monde y compris par les non-rifains. D'ailleurs, locuteurs du tamazight je vous invite à consulter mes articles, vous constaterez qu'il n'y a aucune difficulté à les comprendre. J'adopte l'orthographe IRCAM mais je note systéatiquement le son schwa à la différence de l'IRCAM, c'est beaucoup lus facile de lire amerwas que amrwas ou anezgum que anzgum. --Eko 19:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
  • (7) La future WIKIPEDIA en Bérbére doit utiliser une langue bérbére marocaine unifiée et non pas la "tarifit", "tachelhit", ou encore "tamazirt"
  • (8) L'utilisation des caractères TIFINAGH de L'IRCAM va nous aider à promouvoir l'utilisation de ces caractères dans la vie quotidienne .


Could you please translate that into English? Others want to follow this discussion, too. --Thogo (talk) 21:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Someone can just launch the project page. I am going to translate it, so you can just put an english or french one.Sympatico 20:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I would agree to this project if it uses tifinagh script, which is conventional. The concern here would be that almost nobody types in this alphabet, a challenge which must first be overcome. I disagree with using the latin script, which is untraditional, and the arabic script sometimes used in morocco (according to english wikipedia) is not universally used either. It doesn't seem likely that this wikipedia will have more than a handful of contributors or readers in the near future, but it would be a good idea to work on typing tifinagh. Wikipedias are encyclopaedias not just expressions of cultural pride. Moemin05 16:06, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Character set and language name

What characterset are you going to use and consequently, is the name ⵜⴰⵎⴰⵣⵉⵖⵜ or tamaziɡt ?? GerardM 20:46, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

We can use the same characters used in Taqvaylite Wikipedia Sympatico 19:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
The Linguistic Data Consortium of the University of Pennsylvania has a Language Resource Wiki of resources for under-resourced languages, including a Berber page which concentrates on the three major Berber languages or dialect groups of Morocco: Tarifit, Central Atlas Tamazight, and Tachelhit. As the maintainer of that wiki, I am interested in this proposal.
With regard to the question of character set, see especially the sections on writing and Encodings and Fonts.
The name used for the language is going to depend on the language written. When we're talking English and discussing the chief language of France, we call it "French", not "français". Even more so, when discussing Russian we don't call it русский язык. --Thnidu (talk) 04:22, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Localisation update

  • Currently 0.00% of the most used MediaWiki messages have been localised. Localisation of these messages is a requirement before your request is finally assessed. This is the recent localisation activity for your language. Thanks, GerardM 11:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Please request for the localisation of your language at translatewiki.net you will find that once you start localising that the localisations will become available within a couple of days once the localisations for your language have been enabled. Thanks, GerardM 14:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Other relevant proposals

Should be coordinated with Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Tamazight and Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Berber... AnonMoos 12:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The other two have been rejected. Thanks, GerardM 14:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)