Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Moroccan

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submitted verification final decision

This proposal has been approved.
The Board of Trustees and language committee have deemed that there is sufficient grounds and community to create the new language project.

A committee member provided the following comment:

Approved. Phabricator request pending verification of the configuration details. --MF-W 14:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC) Now phabricator:T257674 --MF-W 12:24, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code ary (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Moroccan Arabic Language name in English
Language name الدارجة Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q56426 - item has currently the following values:
 Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality no indication Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Morocco Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL ary.wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name ويكيپيديا "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace ويكيپيديا usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace نقاش ويكيپيديا "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-ary.png This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Africa/Casablanca "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit Phabricator task. It will include everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings. After creating the task, add a link to the comment.

Proposal

Moroccan Arabic has nearly 30 million native speakers. This language(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Arabic) is unique and is widely spoken in Morocco. Also, It is the language of choice on a variety of TV programs and shows that air in Morocco Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Arguments in favour

  • Morocco's history is thousands of years old (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Morocco Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moroccan Arabic already has an entry in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Arabic Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is an active Moroccan community on the internet. 33,178 members on the facebook Morocco network (as a side note the hungary network has 35,246 facebook members) Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • About 7 million tourists visit morocco each year. Yet, there is no widely available dictionary. A Moroccan wiktionary would fill this void all the while being easily accessible to non-Moroccans Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moroccan vocabulary finds its ethymology in 4 other languages, none of which give a comprehensive understanding of moroccan Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of the +400 Moroccan proverbs have been compiled and listed to capture ancestral knowledge (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proverbes_marocains) Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no existing unique source of truth to write words. Wiktionary will make it possible for users to share and assemble their knowledge Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moroccan is the pride of most moroccans in that it uniquely captures the essence of their lifestyle and gives them a sense of community Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moroccan brings together the Young and the Elderly, the Illiterate and the Erudit Schihab 07:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moroccan Arabic is a popular language that blends arabic and the original pre-arabic languages spoken in the Moroccan region of northern Africa MCruz 19:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Willy2000 13:40, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • New argument : On the contrary of what is said, most of Moroccans don't speak a word of Classical Arabic... I am Moroccan, and Darija (Moroccan language) is my mother tongue. Although I speak Arabic, I have got sometimes difficulties to understand it, and I am one of the few Moroccans who speak it : most Moroccans who have education are supposed to understand it, but it is absolutely wrong. That is why there is a need of a Wikipedia in Moroccan.
  • For the people who say that it is just a dialect, they shall know that many linguists stated that it was a language. There are many dictionnaries of Moroccan language, more than 8000 proverbs and expressions, many poems and different dialects of Moroccan. How people can still think it is not a language?
  • For those who say that it has too many words of Arabic, they shall know that Romanian for example has 90% of Latin roots, but it is still considered as a language, therefore, saying that Moroccan is just a dialect is wrong.
  • For those who state that it hasn't got enough scientific words, they shall know that most of European languages have most of their scientific words comming from Greek and Latin, that's why we can "Moroccanize" some Arabic and French or Spanish words for the scientific words.
  • For those who say that it is still just a dialect because nobody write in it, they shall know that it has its own history and has been written for centuries in many alphabets, and today it is mostly written in modified Latin alphabet and most of people understand it.
  • If we all share our ideas in Moroccan language, that will help reducing the analphabetism of Morocco, which is due to the linguistic problems of Morocco. If you speak to people in their language, they will tend more to try to learn it. And the example is possible to see with Nichane newspaper : newspapers are not widely read in Morocco because it is written in French or Arabic and most of people are not able to understand it, but when newspapers in Moroccan have been created, they found many new readers.
  • For all these reasons, it should be interesting to create a Wikipedia in Moroccan, and I am sure that many Moroccan Internet users will contribute to it with enthusiasm.
  • Support - El tiu Cancho 12:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Enzoreg 15:11, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moroccan is a language. Sure there are a lot of accents since Morocco is a very large country (as well as France, Germany, etc...), but everybody knows those differences and it does not constitute a problem, but rather a pretext for the opponents. We have to stop this hypocrisy !! There are more differences between Standard Arabic and Moroccan than between Swedish and Danish ! Let's take a very simple sentence and let's traduce it : I want to go to the beach with my friends. In Danish : Jeg ønsker at gå til stranden med mine venner. - In Swedish : Jag vill åka till stranden med mina vänner. - In Arabic : urīdu an aḏhaba ilā ʾšāṭiʾ maʿa asdiqāʾī (in arabic transliterration) - In Moroccan : bġit nǝmši lǝ lḅḥaṛ mʿa ṣḥabi (in arabic transliterration). Result : Even if it's not his language, the Dane will understand the Swedish effortlessly whereas the Eastern Arabic will not. So it is legitimate to allow expression in a language with a grammar, a vocabulary and a pronunciation proper to it. --Enzoreg 19:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support It will serve a useful purpose and is written in a recognised language. Good luck. --Ghaly 18:20, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support There is a huge myth which is so disconnected from reality as to be interstellar that Moroccans all speak Classical Arabic. Darija is the mother tongue for a huge percentage of Moroccans and as such merits its own Wikipedia. Incidentally I have lived in Morocco since 2008 so I speak from personal experience; friends who have recently moved here and speak only English and Classical Arabic are having an incredibly hard time making themselves understood. -- Alexandr Dmitri 17:26, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • İ found an article which is very interisting because it exposes the problem as the moroccans live it. İt was published in the review TelQuel, redacted in French. You will find it here. --Enzoreg 18:09, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support For sure, it's neglected. 30 million speakers! Support, Arabic isn't enough. Why don't we delete German in favour of English then?--Kafkasmurat (talk) 11:36, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia proved very successful, so a thriving Moroccan Arabic Wikipedia should be feasible. It could also serve the Moroccan diaspora, which gets increasingly alienated from MSA to the point that they don't understand foreign imams or are offered "education in their own language" which they barely understand. Steinbach (formerly Caesarion) 11:49, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am an Arab. With all respect to Moroccan, Algerian people, I don't understand anything with what they say. In the Arab world if a Moroccan spoke in the TV there must be subtitles to translate what they are saying. Their language IS NOT A dialect. It's a mixed Amazighi language with French, Spanish and Arabic. I can't give a percentage of how many Moroccans and Algerians can't speak Modern standard Arabic but I can say about 60-80 percent of Moroccans can't speak Modern standard Arabic.--SharabSalam (talk) 08:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • SUPPORT. Let's take for exemple someone from a rural town in Morocco who doesn't understand standard Arabic. If we are against the creation of Moroccan Arabic Wikipedia then we are against his low of free knowledge access.--A. SADIQUI (Talk) 21:39, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against

  • Der Arabische Wikipedia ist da all. Es ist nicht gut um zwei dieser Projekten zu machen! Deutschlehrer 14:10, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Against Deutschlehrer is right. The Arabic Wikipedia is enough to suit the needs of all the Arabic-speaking world. The reason for this is that Moroccan Arabic, as well as Emirati Arabic and Lebanese Arabic and the multitudes of other dialects of Arabic, is a dialect. Moroccan Arabic may have words, indeed, many words from various other non-Arabic languages, such as French, Spanish and Berber, it is the same case with every other dialect of Arabic such as Emirati Arabic (from English, Persian and Hindi as well as Standard Arabic) or Syrian Arabic (from Turkish, among others). Those adopted words through the dialects have come to enter the Standard Arabic dictionaries as words usable for Standard Arabic texts. The Arabic Wikipedia has enough room, linguistically speaking, to accommodate the foreign vocabulary that has entered Arabic through the Moroccan dialect and other dialects. As for the grammar of the Moroccan dialect of Arabic, it does include features non-existent in Standard Arabic, just like any other dialect of Arabic like Iraqi, Emirati, Egyptian dialects have features that are not part of the standard Arabic grammar that is commonly used in newspapers, books, internet and other forms of literature. To suggest a Wikipedia project for Moroccan Arabic is as strange as suggesting a Wikipedia project for the Osaka dialect of Japanese or for African American Vernacular English. All those dialects have literary significance to their Arabic, Japanese, and English. I know from personal experience that a text written in a dialect of Arabic is readable to me and understandable although I might not be proficient in speaking it. This is the case why many poets in the Arabian peninsula would (occasionally) use a non-standard form of Arabic called Nabati (نبطي) which happens to differ from all the other dialects spoken and commonly used in the region, and the form is readable by many in the Arab world and is easily understood. And I know it would be the same case if I were to read a text in any other dialect of Arabic such as Moroccan or Egyptian. Agari 14:34, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "It's a dialect" is a non-starting argument. It is the learned opinion of linguists, like those at the w:Summer Institute of Linguistics, that Moroccan Arabic is a distinct language. The English Wikipedia is enough to suit the needs of the entire Irish-speaking world, too, but we have a separate Irish Wikipedia. (And a Scottish one. And a Welsh one, too.--Prosfilaes 18:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have convinced with this argument at first .. but when I went to Welsh Wikipedia I couldnt understand any word in the main page in spite I am not bad in English .. which means that welsh is really distinct from English .. maybe they are from the same Lingual family but u cannot understand welsh if u know English alone .. that is not the case with what u called Egyptian , Sudanese , Moroccan ... we are native speakers of Arabic and we know that more than non-speakers --Chaos 11:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • English is a germanic language, as well as German, Dutch, etc... while welsh is a celtic language, as well as Gaelic and Breton. So do not worry if you cannot understand Welsh it's totally different :) --Enzoreg 18:16, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Against -- Ther's no need for A Wiki in Moroccan Arabic dialect (nor the Egyptien Accent or Lybian arabic..) as there's already Classical Arabic. Moroccan dialect is written in Classical Arabic letters, so, people who can read arabic can understand the already existing Arabic Wikipedia. Another probleme is the fact that in Morocco ther's 3 different arabic dialects; the extreem north, the center and the saharan arabic (called Hassani), so, which one should we add!?. It's good to have wikipedia in defferent languages when necessary, but, in this case, I think adding minor dialects kills the content of Wikipedia and affects the spreading of knowledge. --Abdessamad IDRISSI 14:32, 6 May 2009 (GMT)


  • Ok .. I think Wikimedia begins to break its original rule regarding languages version by establishing Egybtian arabic accent version .. and that is what opens discussions for all these arabic accents .. again they are accents not languages ... try to consult linguists to know exactly what is the differnece between language and an accent ... the future of such projects is like egyprian arabic now .. it is just a blog for few mebers to spread their own propaganda against the Pan-arabism and political issue in egypt .. in spite they have a space to express that in official arabic version ... regarding lebanese version .. can some body tell me how could be different from syrian version if i request it .. the difference between lebanese accesnt and syrian accent is just few words ... if you want to make a separate wikipedia for each country then change the policy of language aspects or why I dont apply for damascene wikepedia cause tehre is differnece between accent of Damscus and accent of Aleppo and accent of Homs .. and ya Accent of Deir al-Zur which is more similar to iraqi accents ... what about Mousli accent and baghdad accent ... ohh my god I can apply now for more than 100 arabic languages loool .. do you see how do you misunderstand the whole situation .. and all of that is invoked by approval of what u call egyptian arabic accent version which its owner doesnt know if they will keep writing in arabic letters or using invented latin script lool .. good luck --Chaos 10:25, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • First of all, the Ethnologue entry for this language refers to it as «Arabic, Moroccan Spoken». To the best of my knowledge, no standard orthography of this language exists (at least, no reference to the same is provided by those who argue in favour). Will this Moroccan Wikipedia be spoken, too? If the answer is "yes", I'll move my posting to 'Arguments in favor' above; but the answer is probably "no", which means the proposal is, in fact, to create a new written language with Wikipedia being the first published document in it (I may be exaggerating but not too much). Isn't this original research in its worst sense?
The External link provided in the Proposal summary above leads to national portal of Government of Morocco. Surprisingly, the home page and all the links on it lead to pages written in Modern Standard Arabic. I don't see how can this external link support the case for creating a Wikipedia in Moroccan. In my view, it speaks against.
I believe that all Moroccans who can read at all will understand texts in Modern Standard Arabic better than ones written in a language that... ughm, is... not written. The latter will be as hard as for a native English speaker to read an English text written in IPA. Moreover, in inconsistent IPA. --Abanima 13:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Darija is the same in algéria and tunisia with few differences, so if a distinct language is créated it must be named maghrebi or Darija but not maroccan.
  • Moroccans know arabic, they study thier whole life with arabic they don't need a "language" thier own...you're just trying to make arabic language spereated...and wait a sec Wiki doesn't have judeo-yemenite language as there's not any other accents in here too...why arabic should be spereated into "languages"?...and how can we make other wikis in that accent by the way? and by the way moroccan culture is so connected to arabic one... They don't use accents as an offical language *arabic* they use arabic they speak with it in offical or educational stuff...if moroccan "langauage" shall be done then why we need original arabic? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.114.160.35 (talk) 14:44, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well I can judge by that the wikiproject did the seperating to languages, I can't know why don't you do a "cowboy english"?We want a clear statment please and I reject the idea of seperating languages into systems and accents.
  • I'm Moroccan and I'm against the (arz) Egyptian Wikipedia, as I'm against the Moroccan and Algerian one, I prefer to contribute more in the Arabic one, instead of creating a language for each country, they all speak the same langauge, and they all understand the Arabic. so No ! --196.217.36.24 12:51, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm Egyptian and I'm against the Egyptian (Masri مصري) wikipedia and all other arabic dialects, including moroccan. The arabic wikipedia needs to be the focus of our attention; even in the arabian peninsula there are a multitude of dialects and arabic, like english, is a valuable language in gathering the knowledge of hundreds of millions of people - though 'slang' may be very different we (arabs) can all communicate proficiently with arabs if we want to. This should not become a platform for racial pride, it should remain a platform for knowledge. 86.14.106.237 19:27, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there an established literary tradition for this dialect? I doubt it. Without an independent literary tradition, it will end up as another "Arabic Wikipedia", but for a local community.Alefbe 21:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • As an egyptian I Strongly Oppose any proposal for any encyclopaedia in the dialect of a country. Those citing significant differences from MSA should acknowledge that the moroccan govt NEVER uses darija in formal communication, nor does any other arab country. A stronger proposal is the darija wikipedia, please look at that discussion.Moemin05 16:15, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Good evening Moemin05. I propose to you to revise together the definition of a dialect, taken in the Dictionnaire historique de la langue française, Le Robert, encadré dialecte  : "[une langue] serait un dialecte ayant obtenu un prestige social et culturel." (a language would be a dialect, which got a social and cultural prestige.). Okay. Let's return to your post : "I Strongly Oppose any proposal for any encyclopaedia in the dialect of a country.". Is it your wish ? I'm sorry to deceive you but there are already "dialect wikipedia" versions. Let's take the example of Lombard (Lumbaart), which has his own wikipedia version. Even if Lombard and Italian are not in the same linguistic subgroup, certain lombard speakers consider it as a dialect of italian. Furthermore, there is no generally recognised standard orthography.. You talked as an egyptian, let me talk as a humanist : "Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge." Did you recongnise the main phrase of Wikimedia ? Every single man means also in our specific case the one who doesn't speak standard arabic but just moroccan arabic ; he's got the right to get a piece of information. Information should'nt be reserved to certain peoples or social categories. I hope you could understand this. Enzoreg 21:59, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Super Strong Oppose We don't need this! The Arabic Wikipedia should serve all of the arabic-speaking world. What's next? American English? Mexican Spanish? The highly controversial Egyptian Arabic wikipedia isn't needed either. For some languages (like Sicilian, Lombard etc.) which are considered dialects of languages have a wiki because those languages have proven they are a separate language. But Moroccan Arabic barely has differences to Standard Arabic. Kanzler31 17:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Super strong irrelevant What a language is determined outside of the WMF. We comply with the standard that is also used for Internet technology. As to your opinion, it is not based on involvement even though you speak of "we". Sicilian and Lombard have been around longer then Italian. You may be shocked to know that Moroccan Arabic is localised at translatewiki in the Latin script.. <grin> GerardM 18:55, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1. Any Arabic Slang Language is not a formal human language, it is slang ! having a Wikipedia in a slang Arabic, will lead for many problems, the main leading one : more Arab-speaking wikipedians will be starting more wikipedias in other slang dialects, therefore we shall have someday in the future more than 30 Wikipedia's in Slang dialects ! each Arab speaker would want to start a Wikipedia of his own dialect ! and we should keep in mind, that not only regional states have their own dialects, the cities within those countries and states have more specific slang's and dialects, and this will make the true value of Wikipedia drop down when it will be filled with slang's ! 2. how valid is a Slang Dialect : lets not forget it is a dialect : meaning there is total biding code to how to spell and write or read ! a dialect differs from a man to another ! for example in slang English : the word The : is turned into da and de ! as also it is a slang : a slang doesnt have a biding grammar or what so ever ! it is just what goes with the mouth ! a slang is saying what you feel your mouth can easily say ! this is how a slang develops ! and another thing is that in slang we might have sounds that do not exist in the formal language : for example in many slang arabic's we have the sound /g/ and there is no specific way to express this sound ! sometimes they use the Farsi letters sometimes else, here are four letters that all represent /g/ in slang arabic's :چ ڠ گ ڇ, and there are many more !

3. today we have a Wikipedia in a slang non-grammatical nor organized language, so why cant we have a Wikipedia in lolcat language, it already translated the bible : teh lolcat spek iz organizd !

4. if you accept to have a wikipedia in a slang language of a regional state, this means you now need to have a Wikipedia to each state in the US at least, having Wikipedia Masri, is a huge deal of turning Wikipedia into politically divided than nations and cultures contributing together, DO NOT TURN WIKIPEDIA INTO A POLITICAL DIVISION !

5. in All Arab & Algerian Universities, (and rest of the world), a scientific report - scientific page, in a slang dialect, even their own slang, is not acceptable and that report/page will never be regarded as true or even scientific unless in a formal Language like Formal Arabic Language !

6. having Wikipedia in this slang language or any other will lower the validity and the standards of Wikipedia : how would something valid/true/scientific and reliable as Wikipedia have a SLANG language, there is not scientific family in the world that would recognize a slang as a valid way to express science and studying !

7.when we have this Wikipedia & many others, that is already leading to more Wikipedias in other Arabic SLANG Dialects, the Arab-speaking Developers and editors will be divided in more than 30 Wikipedia in stead of all of them developing the one true formal language Arabic Wikipedia, thus they are destroying and corrupting in stead of uniting and building wikipedia, and expanding Wikipedia Arabic

8. treating Slang Arabic as equal for other formal Languages is a discrimination against the other slang-speakers of the world, thus for example we must also have Slang Arabic English, it is as the same level as Egyptian Arabic Slang, or Algerian or Bahrani Arabic

9. HAVING A WIKIPEDIA IN A SLANG IS STUPIDITY !

10. IT IS NOT A LANGUAGE , WIKIPEDIA IS GETTING FILLED WITH SLANG ARABICS, AND ARABS HAVE MANY SLANGS, THUS ARABIC SLANG WIKIPEDIA WILL NEVER END

and so I've presented my statement, with Logic and reasoning ! please respect and don not vandalize ! as I stress on you understanding #1 & #2 !

US states don't have Wikipedias, but there are many Wikipedias for languages spoken in the US, even though Navaho and Cree will probably never be languages of science. Moroccan Arabic is a language in the opinion of linguists. Stating your own opinion about the nature of this language repeatedly in all caps does nothing to make your opinion more impressive when stacked up against expert opinion.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:19, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Other discussion

See this, read the arguments in the page, and let them answer. Санта Клаус 10:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Having wiki experience is no arguments and is not considered by the language committee. If it is not there it will be there when the incubator period is finished and the project is granted. GerardM 18:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Is there is any written literature of that "proposed language"? I'm really wondering why some people think their local Arabic slang is a seperate language that needs a wikipedia of its own? from my understanding, wikipedia isn't a tool for nationalists to satisfy their agenda, or a tool to learn others new languages. --Khaled Hosny 11:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's not "local Arabic slang"; the dialects of Arabic are highly divergent and are widely recognized by linguists as separate languages.--Prosfilaes 21:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Did you mean distinct? Because I would expect them to converge rather than diverge due to improving literacy and readily available satellite TV programmes from other Arab countries. I am not aware of any linguistic research on this subject but I have a subjective impression that during the last 20 years or so many words from literary Arabic entered into colloquial. --Abanima 17:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Le but de la demande est de créer des pages avec l'arabe marocaine : Maroc : standard code name type scope ISO 639-3 ary Moroccan Arabic living individual L'arabe Marocaine est nomée Darija et elle s'appelera dans le projet s'appelera "مغربي" le lien est : https://ary.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Exemple de langue arabe existante: Egypte : Pour l'arabe egyptien elle s'appelle "مصري" le lien est : https://arz.wikipedia.org/wiki/ standard code name type scope ISO 639-3 arz Egyptian Arabic living individual

"مصري" literally means both "the language spoken in Egypt" & "Egyptian" so it's not a good exemple. Moroccan Arabic Wikipedia should be named "الدارجة" not "مغربي", 'cause simply the language called Darija. For exemple Swidish Wikipedia called "Svenska" not "Svensk".--A. SADIQUI (Talk) 17:13, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll raise some of the same issues that I did over at Egyptian Arabic -- namely, is there an accepted or widely-used standardized written norm for Moroccan Arabic (separate and distinct from the written norm of Modern Standard Arabic)? The phonology of Moroccan Arabic seems to be very different from that of Modern Standard Arabic, so attempting to use unenhanced standard Arabic script in an ad-hoc seat-of-the-pants way to write Moroccan will probably give quite unsatisfactory results... AnonMoos 15:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think so, however, it's the Moroccans' decision. I have suggested for Egyptian Wikipedia adding two modified vowels to the keyboard (ێ ۏ) <o:> & <e:> (ō ē).
  • You can even extend it with those letters (چ گ ڤ پ ژ ڠ), so you can have < p> <v> <g> <ʒ> or others, if you want. --Mahmudmasri 12:42, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

all what is written in these suggested slangs : egyptian , morrocan , lebanese are some conversations in literal works .. no complete book has been ver written by these slangs and now they are declared as languages ... and there are suggestion to add new letters and vowels ... does wikimedia approve now the original research and works ... I can approve that if there is radical modification on the written policies now --Chaos 11:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would appreciate it if people discussing proposals for Arabic colloquial Wikipedias would refrain from using linguistically inappropriate words like "accent" and "slang" (see previous discussion at Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Egyptian Arabic). AnonMoos 00:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
@Chaos, I read a complete novel in Moroccan Arabic when I was a boy (I remmember it's called ذاكرة النسيان). And there is an entire Poetry Diwan writen in the 16th century by Abd Rahman El majdoub which is also written in Moroccan Arabic. So don't speak about the things you don't know about.--A. SADIQUI (Talk) 17:31, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another comment: the word 'Darija' is not peculiar to Moroccan or Maghribi dialects. It simply means 'common' and is used in other areas of the Arab World. I admit that in Levant another synonym of 'common' is more frequent, 'ammiyya', but this is not substantial: if you tell someone from Levant that somebody spoke 'darija' they will only understand that you mean colloquial (ammiyya) as opposed to literary Arabic and are unlikely to think that you specifically mean Moroccan or Maghribi dialects. Abanima 17:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • What you just described is the meaning of the word Darija in Arabic. In darija, however, it means one of the languages spoken by the North African people, Though most of the time we just call Darija "Arabic". Now I would like to remind you that both Germans and Dutch people use the term Dutch/Deutch to describe their languages even though they are quite different. This is an example of how. the way people perceive their tongues doesn't necessaraly reflect any subjective reality.--MassNssen 23:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Proposal logo --Xiquet 20:15, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose of a Maghrebi wikipedia with a written source -- I will support a Maghrebi Arabic/"Darija", north africa (Morocco-Algeria-Tunisia) dialects -they all called darija- are very similiar to each other they are only different in accent, I don't support creating a wiki for each state since it's illogical to claim the dialect recognize national borders and moreover you will find different accents even among the one nation, however they started teaching it in en:Ceuta and en:Melillia as a "new" language.[1][2] I will argue with many other sources if needed cheers. --Xiquet 22:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • the definition put forward by SIL is what will be expected of a successful request for a Moroccan Wikipedia. We will be looking for confirmation that the corpus in the Incubator conforms to what is referred to. Thanks, 13:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Two issues:

  1. Please don't call it "Moroccan". Moroccan is at least bilingual Arabic - Berber. "Moroccan Arabic" would be much more appropriate.
  2. Mainly to those who oppose this idea. Please don't empty your underbelly on this page. Keep the discussion rational and reasonable. Some of your claims are simply false (like all varieties of Arabic, Moroccan Arabic is actually quite different from Modern Standard Arabic in all respects: grammar, phonology, and vocabulary), others are completely irrelevant. Questions like "where does this end if we allow Wikipedias in dialects?" can be answered quite easily: whatever living language has its own ISO code and not already covered by existing Wikipedias is considered eligible. Also, there is a solid difference between "slang" and "vernacular". Steinbach (formerly Caesarion) 11:40, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the approval is considering: [3] --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:14, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Localisation update

Northwest African Arabic

Please, take a look at Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Northwest African Arabic and discuss there about the possibility to create Northwest African Arabic (Maghrebi) Wikipedia. --Millosh 23:14, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed approval

Hello! Langcom wants to approve this project soon, cf. Talk:Language_committee#Notification_about_proposed_approval_of_Moroccan_Arabic_Wikipedia. In the meantime, please check the data in the template at the top of this page and adjust/complete it if necessary, so that we can request the creation of the wiki when the waiting-period is over. Thanks and best regards, --MF-W 15:06, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:SADIQUI, User:Anass Sedrati: can you confirm it's all correct in the template? Thanks. --MF-W 14:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello MF-W and thank you very much for your message. If you refer to the big table on the top of the page as the "template", then I have checked it and confirm that all the information standing there is fine. I am adding Reda benkhadra to this discussion as he has been very active in the project as well, in case he has anything else to add. Regards. Anass Sedrati (talk) 17:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you MF-W for starting the discussion, and thanks Anass for the ping. I also do confirm that all information included in the template are correct, expect the logo entry that must be improved in terms of quality. I'll work on that with the rest of the team, and get back to you once fixed. Cordially, --Reda benkhadra (talk) 18:21, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both. --MF-W 12:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello MF-W. As convened, please find here the new logo version as approved by the community. Also, I do have some technical questions with regards to the ongoing implementation of the project: can the web font be changed and the pending changes tool be installed at this stage? Thank you in advance. --Reda benkhadra (talk) 16:01, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please, wait for the wiki to be created, then discuss these possible configuration changes in the community and make a request then. Though if by "pending changes" you mean using FlaggedRevs, unfortunately that extension will not be installed on any new wikis. Cf. Limits to configuration changes. --MF-W 01:23, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks MF-W for the clarification. Indeed, it is the wish of the community to implement a tool to prevent vandalism from IP addresses and new users, especially that the project once published would be vulnerable to such edits, since this has been already noticed in the Incubator. In this sense, would it be possible to install the Moderation extension as part of the ongoing task on Phabricator? Thanks --Reda benkhadra (talk) 11:54, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It would be best to find that out in a separate, new task on Phabricator. --MF-W 12:29, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello MF-W. We have currently a little problem related to the Administration of Ary wikipedia. In the incubator, both User:SADIQUI and myself were test-admins in that wikipedia, and could make sure to have a kind of "fair" control over the work. It seems that these admin rights were not transferred to us in the ary wikipedia, and therefore there are not administators currently on the project. Unfortunately, after the project became public two days ago, we noticed some (Expected) vandalism that needs to be corrected. Can you advise us please how to get the administration rights in the ary wikipedia projects so that we can have this issue solved? Thank you so uch in advance for your helpful answer. Best regards. Anass Sedrati (talk) 22:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Anass for tagging me. Dear MF-W, we are currently writing a policy for electing admins & we will open the door for the community to candidate and then the community will elect those whom deems fit. Are you suggesting any other steps?--SADIQUI (Talk) 22:56, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please see incubator:Help:FAQ#How_does_someone_become_admin?. I quote from there: You can either request temporary adminship on the Meta page for permission requests, or you can elect an admin on your new wiki and then request normal adminship on the same page, with a link to the local election. --MF-W 22:59, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added to DNS

New language "ary" has been added to DNS. (gerrit:611426) was deployed. (phab:T256674 will track the creation of the wiki.) 

ary.wikipedia.org is an alias for dyna.wikimedia.org.

Mutante (talk) 17:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:48, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moroccan&oldid=24957747"