Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Ter Sami

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main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Ter Sami
submitted verification final decision
Applications-system.svg This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval, will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert and notify the Board of Trustees for a possible veto.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

A committee member provided the following comment:

Please contribute to the test project. For LangCom: StevenJ81 (talk) 13:51, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code sjt (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Ter Sami Language name in English
Language name Saa´mekiill Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q36656 - item has currently the following values:
  • en label = Ter Sami
  • native label (P1705) =
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = language, modern language / Eastern Sami languages
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) =
  • writing system (P282) = Latin script
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 350, 2, 10
Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community
You can optionally list your user name if you are an active contributor to the test wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name Wikipedia "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)

I know that it is very hard to make a Wikiproject in a moribund language, but I request to give it just a little chance.
Ter Sami language spoken in Russia; it is one of 9 Sami languages. The exact number of native speakers is unknown in fact - from 2 to 20. Creation of encyclopedia in Ter Sami is the only way to save it. Regards,--Tamara Ustinova 14:29, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Arguments in favour[edit]

  • Support per above--Tamara Ustinova 14:29, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Support, but I think that it will never be opened.--U.Steele 02:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. Probably not a lot of native speakers, but what about the scholars? Anyway, saving small languages and/or their heritage, at least in written form if not in spoken form, is our mission as Wikipedians and obligation as humans. Kubura 03:37, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
    • It isn't. That's what wiktionary is for. Seb az86556 04:32, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
      • Wiktionary and Wikisource aren't popular in Russia.--Tamara Ustinova 11:21, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
        • Wiktionary and Wikisource are not able to play a role of a Wikipedia project. Wiktionary is, compared to Wikipedia, like closing a culture in the limits of a folklore society that appears annually on folklore festival or parade. Wikipedia is forcing the author to write more, to use the language, to search and develop the features of the language. Makes him/her to live and think the language. Kubura 03:39, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support --Ontoi 12:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Arguments against[edit]

  • 2 speakers? Where are they? Even if, it says they're illiterate. They could probably die at any moment, and there's no grammatical description available. It's impossible to revive something under these circumstances. Seb az86556 18:28, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
    • The exact number of native speakers is unknown. Oficial statistics: 6 speakers - 1995, 10 - 2004, 2 - 2010. Don't you think it's strange?--Tamara Ustinova 02:50, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
      • Whatever it might be, it's clear that it is insufficient. Seb az86556 04:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
        • I believe you only think so. --Tamara Ustinova 11:24, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Sorry, but <20 speakers is practically zero and therefore no viable editing community would emerge even if the project were created. Ruslik 18:29, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
    • OK with that, but how many scholars and scientists know that language? It's the matter of the vividness of the contributor(s) that are willing to work on Wikipedia. Kubura 03:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
      • Unfortunate for you, it has already been decided that there will not be wikipedias in dead languages. Seb az86556 05:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
        • Is it dead language? O_O --Tamara Ustinova 07:54, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
          • Yes, a language known only by scholars, scientists, and a handful of aging and dying individuals is dead. Provide some links to a newspaper, literature, a radio or TV show, contemporary music (be it rock, pop, rap or whatever), a government or institution which uses the language. Seb az86556 10:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
            • It's just funny to read...))) how old are you? Well, your opinion is adopted. I wish you good luck next year. --Tamara Ustinova 10:45, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
              • In other words, you don't have an answer. Seb az86556 18:56, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
                • Trolling?--Tamara Ustinova 20:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
                  • Seb is a well respected member of the Wikimedia community. You on the other hand I have never heard of... I happen to agree with Seb also. A language with a couple of elderly speakers is not a good candidate for a Wikipedia. As interesting and valuable as the language might be, Wikipedia is simply not the right project for this kind of language. Vibrant small languages (maybe even with as few as 100 speakers), or moribund medium-sized languages (perhaps with over 500 speakers, at the very least) could have potential but would present unique challenges. For a language that will probably cease to be spoken natively within the next decade, the challenges are simply insurmountable. --Node ue 22:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
                    • I see this request as open (category), so here's my comment. Latin and Old English are then "living languages". About the "elder speakers": consider the situation of the Basque language during Franco's era, that was until 37 years ago. Mostly elder speakers spoke it, so now the grandparents and their grandchildren speak know Basque better then the parents' generation. About the size and challenge: some wikipedia projects will obviously remain very small and will not cross the 10,000 articles, not even in 10 years. Many existing projects have pumped their articlenumber with the bot (cities, villages...); the true vividness of these projects is much smaller. It's reasonable to expect that Ter Sami will have articles about oand related to hunting tools, animal-powered vehicles, forest, meadow, swamp and tundra animals and plants, various bodies of water, animal bodyparts and processing, clothes, some celestial features, weather conditions, family terminology, food, common medicine problems and traditional medicines... Hey, these are the topics to be filled. The world of such tribes have their 1000 "must have" articles that does not have to coincide with "our" "must have" articles. Kubura (talk) 01:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Ter Sami have 2 speakers and not real ortography. Gálaniitoluodda (talk) 18:20, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Neutral arguments[edit]

  • Ter Sami has no standard orthography and the ones that have been proposed are complex and hard to interpret. To write Sami I have developed an orthography, as stated here:

A= /a/

AA= /a:/

Å= /ɒ/

B= /b/

CK= /k/*

D= /d/

E= /e/

EE= /e:/

F= /f/

G= /g/

CH= /x/

I= /i/

IJ= /i:/

EI= /ɨ/

J= /j/

K= /k/

L= /l/

M= /m/

N= /n/

NG= /ŋ/

O= /o/

OO= /o:/

P= /p/

S= /s/, /z/

SJ= /ʃ/

T= /t/

U= /u/

W= /u:/

V= /v/

Z= /ts/

ZCH= /ʒ/

DZ= /dz/

DG= /d͡ʒ/

Note that "CK" is used for a final /k/ sound. Some sample text would be this: (Numbers 1-10)

Acht= 1

Keicht= 2

Kolm= 3

Nieele= 4

Veidt= 5

Kudt= 6

Keidzschem= 7

Kachze= 8

Achze= 9

Logke= 10

- -HorseSnack (talk)

Other discussion[edit]

I know that Wikipedia is the most well-known of the Wikimedia-projects, so there seems to be a certain prestige attached to having one in a language. But have you considered some of the other projects such as Wiktionary or Wikibooks? For a moribund language with only a few speakers and I'm assuming not very many written materials or dictionaries, one of these projects might accomplish more. Wiktionary could be used simply to collect vocabulary before it is lost as the last fluent speakers pass away and Wikibooks could be useful for creating things like teaching materials, culture-specific instructions etc. I think that for a language like Ter Sami, that might be more useful than having encyclopedia articles. Or these could all be integrated into one project as different name spaces, as has been done on the Alemannic Wikipedia. --Terfili (talk) 16:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

  • You feel the difference between dialects and languages? Last sentence... it's too funny.))--Tamara Ustinova (talk) 20:00, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
What are you talking about? --Terfili (talk) 12:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)