Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Yucatec Maya

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Yucatec Maya Wikipedia[edit]

main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Yucatec Maya
submitted verification final decision
Applications-system.svg This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval, will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert and notify the Board of Trustees for a possible veto.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Language code yua (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Yucatec Maya Language name in English
Language name maaya t'aan Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q13354 - item has currently the following values:
  • en label = Yucatec Maya
  • native label (P1705) =
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = language / Yucatecan languages
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) =
  • writing system (P282) = Latin script
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 706,000
Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community Xoknáal (N), Marrovi (P), Alfonsobouchot (P), Teòtlalili (P), Tepoxteco (P), Addicted04 (P), Jegs87 (P'’’), Khagda (P)
You can optionally list your user name if you are an active contributor to the test wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Project name "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo File:... 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone Continent/City "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)


Yucatec Maya is an isolated language spoken in Mexico, Belize and Guatemala by Maya people. There are 150,000 to 600,000 speakers (quantities vary accords the method of study). The language has two major scripts, however none is universally accepted. There was another proposal here, and the localisation is at work.


Arguments in favour[edit]

  • Support: Support. Esta es la lengua más hablada per capita en México, ninguna otra lengua indígena en México tiene el nivel de concentración que tiene el maya yucateco. Es necesario seguir trabajando y repetir el Translathon, como gran parte del trabajo social el problema de este proyecto es la falta de continuidad e interés. Hay que responzabilizarnos y llevar a cabo este proyecto. --afueb 10:45, 1 mayo 2016 (UTC)
  • Support.I have heard this language before, although I cant speek it. It is a great idea to open this new project. --RubiksMaster110 19:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Support Support: Native speakers of Yucatec Maya have the competency and willingness to contribute to this project in the long-term. Hence the Yucatec Maya language deserves to be given the opportunity and priviledge to have its own language edition of Wikipedia. There are 700,000 speakers in Mexico [1]. --Jose77 02:57, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Support: Support...for the consewrvacion of the languages in the next future--Lodewijk Vadacchino 22:02, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Support: Support. I think this language has people (native speakers) that can contribute to improve mayan Wikipedia. Just a matter of making it grow and get to it. --Addicted04 00:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Maya is one of the largest native languages (in terms of number of speakers) in Mexico, perhaps only second to nahuatl. es:Drini 17:59, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Support: Support. I think this language is very important for Mexico and the world, it has his own history and the native speakers they can to contribute with more knowledge.--Teòtlalili 00:45, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Support.A un año de haberse crado la Wikipedia maya en Incubator, he visto buenos resultados y respuesta de muchos usuarios registrados como de usuarios no registrados escribiendo en maya, colaborando con imagenes y tablas sindo ahora la lengua amerindia con mayor número de entradas al momento. El esfuerzo de trabajo se verá reflejado muy pronto.--Marrovi 00:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Support. I fully support this, I'm from state of Yucatan where you can find a lot of people who speak Maya language and now the government of the state is encouraging the people to learn Maya, almost all the towns here have names in Maya and after the Nahuatl is the most important native language in Mexico. In Yucatan we have an official page for learn Maya, !!!ko’ox kaanbal Maya!!. (let's go to learn maya).--Hpav7 00:03, 11 Mayo 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Maya, like many other languages, deserves all necessary means to its protection and transmission and a Mayan Wikipedia may prove a good way to ensure this and show the native users that the language is worth using and it will allow to make visible the riches of the Mayan language, culture, music and traditions to the outsiders. Let's keep fighting for the unprotected languages! Capsot 19:25, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. There is an active group of users wiling to go ahead with the Project. This should be enough to accept it. But in minority languages Wikipedia can’t be fully neutral. By accepting the proposal the existence of the Wikipedia project is a recognition to encourage proposers to work harder and also an aid to promote the use of the language in society helping to attract more readers and users. --Gomà 18:31, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, this project will be useful for Maya people (Mexico, Belize and Guatemala). --Sarvaturi 08:32, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Support this new wikipedia will be useful for Maya people. Davidpar 10:21, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, Yucatec Maya, like many other minorities languages in the world needs recognition and protecion.Jiròni 11:05, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Thank you very much by support a Yucatec Mayan Wikipedia Jach níib óolal Marrovi 05:19, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Support It's necessary to keep and protect the Yucatec Maya --Guillem d'Occam (Digues, t'escolto) 19:58, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Support We need a wikipedia in Yucatec Maya. Jfblanc 14:41, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Support Yucatec Maya as a language deserves this project, it is an important language in need of this kind of support, and the project has amply demonstrated its potential. A R King 07:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Support Every indigenous language should have a wiki to revive the language. Efforts to revive this language are already underway and successful, a wikipedia project would help that effort. Kanzler31 23:10, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Support They need a wikipedia in Yucatec Maya. 01:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Support per above --Andrijko Z. 19:42, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Le maya est le 2ème langage à le Mexique, une langue national et d'enseignement aussi. Le peuple maya a besoin d'avoir contenus éducatifs à sa langue maternelle. --yavi : : cáhan 23:37, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Support We need expand to more Mexicans the content of Wikipedia in the Mayan language, and safeguard a precious legacy. --Ivanmartinez 01:56, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Support Yucatec Maya is the second indigenous language in Mexico, and one of those of but rich inheritance and continuous development, reason why Wikipedia must include it enters its versions. --Battroid 05:41, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Support--Kaiyr 12:17, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Support Yucatec Maya stands strong in the Yucatán Peninsula, and with this Wikipedia version up and running it will attract many new contributors. Haakon K 21:46, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Support --N KOziTalk 04:35, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
  • support --Jagwar 交談 homewiki 08:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
  • Support Is the second spoken language after Spanish in Mexico and the largest native language together with the Nahuatl. Has about six million speakers in five countries, deserves to have a Wikipedia. --Reder 08:54, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Strongly support --U.Steele 19:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Support --jegs87 23:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Support -- 800,000 to 1,200,000 speakers. Kubura 06:32, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Support -- Raoli  02:34, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support --MIKHEIL 15:51, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • support millions of speakers are available and nahuatl has been a great success i think this one will be too!Luciferwildcat (talk) 03:55, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Support Nahuatl has been a smashing success and Maya has millions of speakers and hundreds of thousands of people online using it, it is used on television and a strong community to rival nahuatl wille likely form behind it, let's give the mayans the tools to amass the sum of all human knowledge in maya already! 02:42, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Support Bodhdharma (talk) 11:43, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Support'’’. “If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart.” - Nelson Mandela --Khagda 21:14, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Support Why Wikipedia doesn't accept this language!? I'll support Maya language. All native languages are in danger. Bodhdharma (talk) 07:58, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Kurdbuddha (talk) 05:18, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Support quiero que exista una Wikipedia en maya, para preservar las lenguas de mi pais--Zacbeddfn (talk) 20:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC).
  • Support A Wikipedia in Yucatec Maya language must exist. It is very useful for those who need to practice their natural linguistical roots. --Sarvaturi (talk) 16:04, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Arguments against[edit]

Other discussion[edit]

Are you requesting a wiktionary or a wikipedia? --OosWesThoesBes 15:24, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

We are requesting a wikipedia in Mayan Yucatec Language .--Marrovi 19:40, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I of course support this project and I would be very happy to see Yucatec Wikipedia but at the moment incubator version isn't very impressive. Most of articles just one word translations. The presence of active native speakers would make more hope that the project wouldn't die. I myself tried contact one American who knowns Yucatec and makes videos in Youtube about it but unfortunately I got no answer. There are too much wikipedias which died just after their start: Gagauz, Karakalpak, Komi Permi, etc. Hugo.arg 18:38, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Hace rato estoy tratando de encontrar que decir al respecto, la verdad es políticamente inaceptable y moralmente horrorosa. Tendrías que explicar la situación con frases que levantan ampollas. El shock cultural es muy fuerte. Existen una gran cantidad de proyectos que pretenden ayudar al desarrollo económico y cultural, pero, casi todos son vistos con profunda desconfianza por por todos los implicados.

El hecho es que, a menos que se modifiquen las políticas culturales para brindar ayuda, poca ayuda puede llegar a sus destinatarios. El paradigma de “no es posible ayudar a quienes no quieren ser ayudados” es uno de los principales obstáculos en África y América latina, (a diferencia de Asia). Supongo que la opinión general es que esto se debe a razones históricas, pero en realidad las cosas son muchísimo peores. En la actualidad las comunidades indígenas se ven sometidas a situaciones denigrantes y constantes abusos por parte de la sociedad mexicana en general, y hasta hace poco, de ad yure, por parte del gobierno. Ahora solo es de facto, pero eso no ayuda mucho ya que pocos son conscientes de la diferencia. Resolver el problema, obviamente va mucho mas allá de wikipedia, pero el asunto debe de ser motivo de reflexión.

Llegue aquí cuando descubrí que suecos estaban generando una gran cantidad de artículos gracias a bots, no solo en su lengua sino también en dialectos en filipinas. La idea de hacer lo mismo con el náhuatl y el maya no me parecen malas ideas en absoluto, moralmente hablando. La factibilidad de ello es otra cosa. La discrepancia con el navajo es enorme. Los navajos se encuentran inmersos en una sociedad que valora el conocimiento, la cultura y que busca activamente. Entienden el tesoro que implican las raíces con un pasado milenario, ya que su población es demasiado heterogénea y su historia geográfica demasiado joven para tener las propias. La cultura en México en este sentido, es terrible. Es triste (y políticamente incorrecto) decirlo y pero la mejor oportunidad para preservar la lengua y la cultura indígena proviene de escolares mexicanos y filólogos extranjeros.

Difícilmente viviendo con 5 dólares al día (salario mínimo real) puedes desarrollar el amor por la filología. ¿ qué tanto puedes desarrollar el orgullo por tu lengua cuando sistemáticamente eres denigrado por expresarla desde la infancia?. Se necesita gran coraje, aparentemente Marrovi es uno de los pocos que lo han logrado.

El alemán tiene más artículos que el español. El hecho de que Suecia este rivalizando con ellos gracias a los bots, y que lo mismo no ocurra con el español, solo puede explicarse en mi opinión como el producto de una diferencia cultural por parte de la población.

Un concepto que ejemplifica la diferencia de culturas entre el norte y el sur, es la aceptación del hecho de que en mi maestría de liderazgo educativo se considera que la educación, de facto, no es un elemento de desarrollo social. El profesionista gana menos que el que vende tacos. Las matemáticas no tienen utilidad real, la ciencia es mal pagada, la investigación no tiene el mas mínimo estimulo. La realidad es diferente, pero la concepción social permanece, al tratar de argumentar al respecto tengo a la clase entera como detractores.

Problems with incubator wiki[edit]

Of course I am always happy to see projects and participation in indigenous languages. Unfortunately, most content and activity at yua test-wiki seems to be the result of an astroturfing campaign by Marrovi, who solicited many users at es.wp who do not speak Maya to edit the test wiki so it would be active. Notably, it seems Marrovi doesn't speak Yucatec Maya himself very well or at all.

Perhaps the most important link: [5] Some interesting things to note, several of these users tell Marrovi directly that they do not speak Maya and ask if that will be a problem in editing the test wiki; one says he only knows a couple of words. Marrovi says this is not an issue and they should just create one-word stubs, since activity is all that is needed for wiki creation. So what we have is a massive astroturfing campaign, by a user who doesn't speak Maya, recruiting other users who don't speak Maya to create massive amounts of stubs to get a Wikipedia created in a language none of them actually speak.

Here are some examples of pages created by the notorious Marrovi: (all it contains are pictures and the Spanish translation of the word), same here, these are fairly typical of the Yucatec Test-wiki created almost entirely by Marrovi and his army of non-Maya-speaking stub creators.

New Wikipedias should be useful to the actual language communities, and should preferrably be edited mostly by speakers of those languages. Marrovi is notorious for having created several test wikis in Incubator in Mexican and Central American indigenous languages he clearly doesn't speak: Tarahumara, Yaqui, Mixtec, Kaqchikel, Kiliwa, Totonac, Chol, Mixe, Guarijío, O'odham... so hopefully langcom can understand that unless real speakers of this language are involved, instead of just non-speakers who create lots of stubs, this will not be a viable project and should not be created until native speakers appear. --Node ue 19:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

We do require active native speakers. So unless native speakers contribute, I don't think it will get approved. I hope it will help when the redirects and other improvements are implemented so people don't maintain/fake activity for the sake of having a subdomain, but instead for actually having a usable wiki, be it on Incubator or on a subdomain. SPQRobin (talk) 21:37, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
It's easy for you to say that native speakers are needed, but for the indigenous communities is very difficult to survive as a culture instead of a writing in PC, the Wikipedia project maaya t'aan have only two native speakers who have great difficulty with willing to accept to join the project (but now they don't write here, and I don't know the reasons). They are very resentful of years of misery and poverty that brought Europe, USA and bad Mexican governors to their lands, have recovered some areas, but the Native Americans were not invited to the banquet of the globalization of cyberspace, have failed to restore dignity to speak their native language as does a Russian, French or Japanese people.
In Wikipedia by American languages ​​truly native speakers are not only scholars and linguists of indigenous languages ​​(Quechua, Nahuatl, Navajo, Aymara, Guarani among others). I think it's Europe's turn to help them recover spaces and generalizations will be strict in all languages ​​of the world as if they have the same status.--Marrovi 04:08, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
The opportunities are not equal to humans, while the people of the First World have more time to write on wikipedia, needing to study our Latin American reality and waste time trying to learn as we behaviors and try to understand our complex realities. Latin Americans and native Americans seeking work in USA or Europe illegally to try to get what their governments can not provide (Native Mexicans and Central Americans in USA or Canada; and Andean people from Bolivia, Ecuador or Peru in USA, Spain, France, Italy or UK); end tired and underpaid and no time to go to the universities where they can learn and speak other languages and teach their own. Now I am 100% convinced that Wikipedia is not for the Native Americans and does not serve as the wealth is more in oral rather than written language.--Marrovi 04:42, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Marrovi, this makes no sense. There are plenty of development projects in native languages of Mexico and Latin America which are headed by native speakers; much has been done in recent years by indigenous people to take charge of their own languages. The first priority for Wikipedia is native speakers, who actually need these materials, not hobbyists who go around creating Wikipedias which they cannot sustain or support. There are plenty of native speakers of Yucatec who are working hard to save their language; when these people come to contribute to Wikipedia I will support this project. If you look at the Navajo Wikipedia for example you will see native speakers; same with several other languages of developing countries: Swahili, Acehnese, Pashto, Yoruba. Also note that there are active projects by speakers of Latin American indigenous languages across the internet, and it is likely these will only grow in the future.
It seems you are requesting that Wikimedia allow you and other non-native speakers to build a Wikipedia for the Mayan people. This goes completely contrary to the indigenous rights you claim to stand for. Shouldn't the indigenous people themselves be allowed to control their own languages? Why should you be allowed to create a Wikipedia in a language you don't speak? What do you hope to contribute?
In past messages to native speakers, Marrovi has blamed the speakers of indigenous languages for their own predicament, saying that they have allowed their language to fall into disuse and become adulterated, and that the decline of their languages is their own fault. He essentially asserts that he should have just as much say over things written in Mexican indigenous languages as the native speakers of those languages themselves, which seems to be his main idea here. Rather than recruiting native speakers, he insists that they can't come or don't want to come for some reason, and then insists that he should be allowed to take the position of developing content for them.
Although some of you may disagree, it is my firm belief that Wikimedia projects should always be written primarily for people who depend on the languages they are written in; Quechua Wikipedia should be written for and by Quechua speakers, not Peruvian hobbyists who get a good feeling by trying to write a few sentences in Quechua (just an example; Quechua Wikipedia is not actually written by Peruvian hobbyists as far as I know).
Please do not make the mistake of thinking indigenous people are weak or defeated; there are plenty of indigenous people working hard, writing literature in their languages, starting groups to promote their languages, radio stations in indigenous languages and much more, and it is only a matter of time until they themselves come and start Wikipedias, written by native speakers, for native speakers, as it should be. --Node ue 03:08, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Can we do something to meet Marrovi's requirements? If he "solicited many users at es.wp who do not speak Maya to edit the test wiki so it would be active", maybe we can consider that as an attempt to inspire others. Let's assume good faith and good idea: if those few Yucatec speakers (Yucatec Maya has 1,200,000 speakers) join Wikipedia, or if they properly instruct Marrovi, it can be easy to make that project more active, even with the non-speakers. On the other hand, there're wiki. projects that practically do not have real authors (statistics show thousands of editors, but if you remove bot(oid) edits, vandals, notifications, talks, reverts, cross-wiki activities like adding of pictures or pasting new player lineups, etc. - then they have solely 1-2 editors), but copypasters (they literally make PPOV mirrors from similar projects); in that way those mirrorers artificially keep alive their projects. These PPOV mirror-projects were saved from closing with the votes of the non-speakers that mostly never appeared on that project. When such users appeared out-of-nowhere to save such dead project (was there then any out-of-wiki canvassing?), than "it was good", but when Marrovi invites others to edit (not for voting), then it's a problem? And such mirror projects still do exist, while at the same time here we make problems to a real Native American language Wikipedia. Kubura 06:30, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Kubura, I don't say that it is a bad-faith action, but rather that he is attempting to get a Wiki approved through having it very active, when none of the activity is actually "real" (i.e., they are all people who don't speak the language, making minor edits to create the illusion of activity). Nobody is against this Wiki's existence if there is support from native speakers, it just seems Marrovi thinks he should be able to create it without them, which is very concerning to me. Languages primary caretakers should always be their native speakers, not outsiders with no fluency who claim to be their "saviors". --Node ue 03:15, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Also Kubura, please tell me which Wikis you're talking about ("PPOV mirror-projects"). Such a situation does not sound good to me, if there are no native speakers, the Wiki should never have been opened. Content in the appropriate language should always be created by competent native speakers, or native speakers should be the majority of contributors and play the dominant roles. So maybe, as you say, "it was good" to somebody else, but not to me. --Node ue 05:39, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much, friend Kubura, you understand the dificult situation in my country with the rights for Native Americans.--Marrovi 16:55, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
The difficult situation is perpetuated by people who insist that indigenous people are weak and need everybody else to do things for them. If Yucatec Mayan speakers want a Wikipedia, they will create it, you do not need to do it for them. I have seen how you treated native speakers who came to, telling them that Nahuatl is for all Mexicans and that they should not try to make demands but "get used to how things are done here". True power for indigenous people comes from them having their own spaces that they control. Having non-indigenous people create spaces for indigenous people, but then insist on keeping control and power over the discourse, is not helpful and only contributes to the worsening of the situation. --Node ue 03:22, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I think the best way to help indigenous peoples is by letting them make their own decisions and speak for themselves, rather than trying to make decisions for them and speak for them as you are doing here. For now I say we wait, since any decisions about this project should be made by people who speak the language, not by me or you. --Node ue 03:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Claro que conozco los proyectos del maya yucateco y como ud. lo dice son muy buenos, alguna vez tuve la oportunidad de contribuir con un proyecto pequeño pero con mucho cariño para mis paisanos, me encantan las webs maaya t'aan y los consulto regularmente; se que hay radio en lenguas indígenas; yo escucho la del Valle del Mezquital en idioma otomí y me emociona mucho oir lo que dicen y comentan. Soy un aficionado a las lenguas nativas de mi país, yo hablo náhuatl y no nací hablando este idioma, me gusta ir al tianguis y hablar con mis paisanos en náhuatl, les da risa y me comparten dialogos en su idioma, doy clases de náhuatl a los mestizos y ya tengo un grupo que está entusiasta con aprender la lengua que alguna vez hablaron sus ancestros y los mios. No creo que revisen Wikipedia náhuatl por que está escrita en caracteres latinos (cultura europea), les enseño a escribir en náhuatl como si fueran verdaderos tlacuilos (o sea dibujar en papel amate sus ideas y sus conocimientos), cantamos y decimos frases comunes que nos ayudan a interacturar con hablantes nativos. Las personas de wiki náhuatl que se decían hablantes nativos resultaron que no eran nativos, eran doctores en la lengua mexicana y tenían un mote de ello porque parecían verdaderos nahuatlatos; si en verdad usara sus mismos argumentos yo igual soy nahua como ellos porque mis bisabuelos hablaron el náhuatl; pero también tengo abuelitos españoles y he aprendido mucho también de las lenguas ibéricas.
Como puedes ver, los proyectos de las comunidades nativas de México no están preocupadas por que google se escriba en su idioma al 100%, tampoco les preocupa la escrituración de sus lenguas (aunque se ha formado academias para regular un poco esta cuestión); el conocimiento es rico en su expresión oral, pero si fuera posible vincular la tecnología del mundo occidental se daría un paso más, internet es una herramienta que invita al mundo a conocer que hay otros que no son igual a ellos y era este el plantamiento que buscaba yo en Wikipedia, que aquellos que desconocen nuestras culturas se acercaran un poco a la cosmovisión indígena desde sus propias herramientas.--Marrovi 18:59, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Y no he dicho que ser indígena es ser torpe, para nada; hay universidades indígenas en México como la de El fuerte o la de San Felipe del Progreso; les gusta viajar en avión, en metro o manejar un auto, trabajan en los campos de cultivo en lugares tan lejanos como Canadá, muchos residen en Nueva York, Chicago, Las Vegas y han aprendido hablar inglés, además el telefono celular es ya muy popular casi todos los mexicanos sin distinguir etnia o grupo social; pero apesar de los esfuerzos hecho por muchas instituciones mis paisanos nativos siguen sin oportunidades de desarrollarse en el mundo de la globalización, aún hay hambre y miseria forma parte de su vida y no creo que sea por tener o no tener un teléfono, la situación es más compleja y es ideológica que los sigue marginando indirectamente; creo que ahora es el mundo occidente quien pone las barreras, pareciera que lo quiere acaparar en todo (raiking, estadistíca, poder, imagen, etc.) y ya no le gusta la idea de sentirse igual a los demás porque provienen de una cultura individualista y de exclusividad.
Node ue, tu le has dado al clavo en todo, por eso me cuestionas fuertemente en base a tus experiencias y conocimiento; aclaro que no tengo nada en contra tuya y ni mucho menos que tengas algo en contra mia. Tu eres práctico y deseas que no se haya desperdicios, si un hablante nativo no ve atractiva Wikipedia quisieras que no se perdiera el tiempo y que se enfocara uno a otras prioridades, pero yo insisto que no es atractiva para ellos porque somos nosotros los que no hemos hecho los vínculos para compartirles espacio de manera igualitaria, hay que tomar en cuenta que en las comunidades indígenas las computadoras no forman parte de su vida cotidiana y cuando desean usar alguna pues aveces no tienen un tutorial en su propia lengua bajo el codo de su mano. Sobre escriturar es complejo, porque cada variante o dialecto tiene su propia escritura, que complejo es esto, se pueden entender oralmente pero de manera escrita no; y allí es donde yo he encontrado el principal problema en Wikipedia. --Marrovi 20:16, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Bueno Marrovi, en cuanto a la discriminación que existe dentro de la comunidad Wikimedia (o como tú lo dijiste, el hecho de que no hemos hecho los vínculos para compartirles espacio de manera igualitaria), estoy muy de acuerdo. Hace varios años estoy involucrado con los asuntos lingüísticos dentro de la comunidad Wikimedia, y he observado que a pesar de las buenas intenciones, muchas comunidades tercermundistas han sido excluidas del movimiento (no a propósito pero accidentalmente). En mi opinión, la mejor solución es solicitar el involucramiento directo de esas comunidades en todos los asuntos. Muy pronto se realizará una conferencia internacional sobre el asunto, a la cual asistirán representantes de varias comunidades, como por ejemplo los k'iche' de Guatemala. Además, la fundación Wikimedia está haciendo investigaciones sobre la preservación y la difusión del conocimiento oral en comunidades indígenas (pero sólo en Africa e India por el momento)
En cuanto a los problemas dialectales, eso es una consecuencia de la inexistencia de una buena definición de cuál es la diferencia entre un idioma y un dialecto. No creo que sea posible unir todas las variedades del náhuatl en una sola Wikipedia porque los hablantes de, por ejemplo, náhuatl de la Huasteca, no van a entender los artículos escritos en náhuatl de Guerrero. Y por eso, creo que en el futuro será necesario crear proyectos en las variedades locales. Pero siempre había pensado que el yucateco no tenía ese problema.
De todas formas, creo que en el futuro vendrán los hablantes nativos del yucateco a colaborar, pero hasta entonces no creo que se debe aprobar la creación de esta wikipedia. --Node ue 09:27, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

La lengua es la última defensa ante los ataques y los custionamientos vanos, por eso se cuida con celo y se comparte cuidadosamente, esta es una gran enseñanza que me han dado mis paisanos de pueblos originarios, yo seguiré editando, mejorando mis ediciones y tratando de atraer la atención del hablante nativo, pero si él no quiere este vínculo o herramienta pues también acepto esa descición, entonces debemos borrar todo vestigio que yo haya creado en la incubadora.--Marrovi 20:35, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Si los hablantes nativos quieren eso entonces estoy de acuerdo, pero no creo que la creación de contenido sea muy problemático. Pero no creo que se debe aprobar la creación de nuevas Wikipedias sin el apoyo de los hablantes nativos, porque sin los hablantes nativos, ¿de qué sirve el proyecto? --Node ue 09:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Tienes mucha razón y lo apruebo rotundamente bajo sus mismos planteamientos, aunque considero que eso es más apropiado en otras lenguas como cuicateco, kiliwa, purépecha etc. Pero el maya yucateco y el náhuatl no son exclusivamente lenguas de hablantes nativos, también una importante comunidad de investigadores, lingüistas, arqueólogos, etc, que no necesariamente son hablantes nativos, y eso se debe a los estudios de mayistíca y aztecología en universidades de México y de otros países como Alemania, Francia y Japón. Yo creo que el maya yucateco si tiene amplias posibilidades de abrirse como un proyecto más, los demás proyectos si deben tener hablantes nativos obligatoriamente.--Marrovi 17:18, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Aunque existen hablantes no nativos de algunas lenguas indígenas, no deben ser esos hablantes los que se encargan de abrir las Wikipedias. Los idiomas pertenecen sobre todo a las comunidades que los hablan en la vida cotidiana, algo que no suelen hacer los investigadores. Como he dicho antes, los indigenas deben tener control absoluto sobre sus propias formas de expresión. Existe una clara diferencia entre hablantes nativos y hablantes no-nativos y es por eso que no estoy de acuerdo con los proyectos que no cuentan con la participación mayoritaria de hablantes nativos. Los investigadores (y otros hablantes no nativos) deben ser ayudantes, no dirigentes. --Node ue 00:16, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Te lo digo abiertamente, yo alguna vez tuve un vínculo con un estudiante de maya de la Universidad de Oriente en Valladolid, Yucatán llamado Xóknal, y estaba él encantado con la idea de la wiki maya, pero como vió que pasó el tiempo y se demoró, abandonó el proyecto de la incubadora. Yo creo que no les gusta la idea demorar los proyectos esperando bajo un sistema burocrático, y no estoy diciendo mentiras, porque hace tiempo también había un proyecto de wikipedia mixteca (Yuxe'e) donde había un hablante nativo que también conozco y se llama Yavidaxiu; y el proyecto de la wikipedia seri con bastantes hablantes nativos; los cuales fueron ignorados y los hablantes nativos perdieron el interés por la wikipedia (Cáalixötöj) .--Marrovi 17:18, 26 August 2011 (UTC) Aquí muestro la página que los seris abrieron después de ser ignorados u abandonadps en la incubadora La enciclopedia Seri.
Eso es un problema bastante molesto que existe con la política de idiomas de Wikimedia. La incubadora y el proceso de "incubación" pueden resultar muy confusos y desalentadores para muchas comunidades, y muchas personas han dejado el trabajo muy poco despues de empezar. Muy pronto se realizará una actualización del software y se cambiará un poco el proceso, estoy muy interesado en observar cómo sale. Y también seguiré luchando para que el proceso de abrir nuevos proyectos sea más fácil (por ejemplo, quiero que se elimine la traducción obligatoria de la interfaz porque causa muchos problemas para los principiantes).
Estoy casi seguro que los desarrolladores de la EncicloSeri no son las mismas personas que trabajaban en la Test-Wikipedia Seri porque la verdad es que la Test Wikipedia no está escrita en seri sino en una lengua imaginaria (que yo sepa; por ejemplo: [6] casi ninguna de esas palabras existe en la lengua seri). Por otra parte, es bastante obvio que todos los articulos en la enciclopedia Seri fueron escritos por hablantes nativos o expertos. Pero he observado el caso desafortunado de la Wikipedia Mixteca y estoy muy familiarizado con todos los problemas que existen en cuanto al exceso de burocracia. --Node ue 00:16, 30 August 2011 (UTC)