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Requests for new languages/Wiktionary Lombard

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submitted verification final decision

This proposal has been approved.
The language committee has deemed that there is sufficient grounds and community to create the new language project.

A committee member provided the following comment:

  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code lmo (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Lombard Language name in English
Language name lombard Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q33754 - item has currently the following values:
 Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality LTR Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL lmo.wiktionary.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name Wikizzionari "Wiktionary" in your language
Project namespace Wikizzionari usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace Ciciarada Wikizzionari "Wiktionary talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo File:WiktionaryLmo.svg This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Europe/Rome "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces "Apendice", "Ciciarada_Apendice" (as Talk of Apendice) For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Add Aliases of some namespaces (See Requests for new languages/Wiktionary Lombard#Namespaces) Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above. 
I point out for importers that not all the pages are in the category [[Category: Wt/lmo]], but only those that do not have a namespaces. The reason for this choice was to obtain a correct count on the homepage by using the template "PAGESINCATEGORY" (Perhaps the template for the counting will need to be changed once the wiki is created). However, all pages (with or without namspaces) are prefixed with Wt/lmo. --Gat lombart (talk) 13:10, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal

[edit]

The Lombard community needs a dictionary to maintain the vitality of the language and the understanding of wikipedia even by readers who don’t have a complete knowledge of the language, otherwise some less common words may not be understood also on wikipedia and this fact could contribute to discourage users from reading and maintaining the language.

Requisites for eligibility

[edit]
  • 1.The proposal is to open a new edition in Lombard language of an existing Wikimedia project, the Wiktionary;
  • 2.The code ISO 639-3 of the language is "lmo";
  • 3.An other Wikimedia project, idest Lombard Wikipedia version [1], already esist for this language;
  • 4.The number of users of this language is demonstrated by the number of current users of the wikipedia project in the same language; in addition, a discussion about wikitionay was opened on the community portal of the Lombard Wikipedia community.

Discussion

[edit]
  • Support It may be useful for Wikipedia, I'm thinking about a plugin which make possible to search for a word on Wiktionary and other free dictionaries in order to make Wikipedia more understandable for non native speakers. --Sciking (talk) 19:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226: There is no longer any contribution from anonymous users as the only anonymous contributions during the last few weeks are actually some contributions of mine as a not authenticated user plus those of other registered users --Gat lombart (talk) 11:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
→The wiktionary is an currently an active project (see → https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wt/lmo&wiki=incubatorwiki)
→The wiktionary also includes help pages (see → incubator:Category:Wt/lmo/Pagine_de_ajut)
→The wiktionary in the Lombard language has a small community portal (see → incubator:Wt/lmo/Wikizzionari:Portal_de_la_comunità)
→The wiktionary in the Lombard language contains guidelines (see → incubator:Category:Wt/lmo/Linee guida)
→The wiktionary in the Lombard language is ready for the election of administrators. By clicking on "derva la domanda de aministrazzion" on this page a page is automatically created in wich you can submit the candidacy of an administrator.

--151.21.190.157 14:35, 18 July 2021 (UTC)--Gat lombart (talk) 14:37, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Namespaces

[edit]

The wiktionary test project already contains help pages and appendixes. Its namespaces in lombard language shuold be "ajut" or "jut" for "help" and "apendice" for "appendix". However at the moment they are prefixed in english, id est Help pages starts with "Wt/lmo/Help:" and appendices pages starts with "Wt/lmo/Appendix"--Gat lombart (talk) 11:15, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The translation of the Help namespace in MediaWiki currently is "Jüt", is that ok? - I will note that you need an additional namespace for the Appendixes. What would the corresponding talk namespace be called? Ciciarada_Apendice? --MF-W 13:11, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@MF-Warburg: Lombard has several orthographies, as Lombard language has had local literary productions throughout its history. Only in recent years they create Pan-Lombard ortography. In particular, even if local ortographies are still accepted in wikipedia, the current trend in wikipedia is to preferentially use the New Lombard Ortography (Noeuva Ortografia Lombarda). The interface has also been recently updated to the new spelling.
In the wiktionary the use of ortographies has been regulated.
"Jüt" is OK but is written in a local ortography (Unified Insubric Ortgraphy)) than it would be better to update it also for wikipedia and not just for wiktionary with "Jut" or "Ajut" leaving "Jüt" as an alias instead, as well as other namespaces. Yes, I need the additional namespaces "Apendice" and "Ciciarada_Apendice".--Gat lombart (talk) 14:55, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The writing of namaspaces in a Pan-Lombard orthography is even more important in the wiktionary than in wikipedia because it has a policy based on Pan-Lombard orthographies. Instead wikipedia is an older project where different local orthography are still present even in the project and help pages written more than a decade ago. --Gat lombart (talk) 19:06, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Current name of the namespace
(Unified Insubric Orthography)		 Best name for wiktionary
(New Lombard Ortography)		 Other possible aliases
NS_SPECIAL 'Special' 'Special'
NS_TALK 'Ciciarada' 'Ciciarada'
NS_USER 'Druvadur' 'Utent' 'Drovador'
NS_USER_TALK 'Ciciarada_Druvadur' 'Ciciarada_Utent' 'Ciciarada_Drovador'
NS_PROJECT_TALK '$1_Ciciarada' '$1_Ciciarada'
NS_FILE 'Archivi' 'Archivi'
NS_FILE_TALK 'Ciciarada_Archivi' 'Ciciarada_Archivi'
NS_MEDIAWIKI 'MediaWiki' 'MediaWiki'
NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK 'Ciciarada_MediaWiki' 'Ciciarada_MediaWiki'
NS_TEMPLATE 'Mudel' 'Modell'
NS_TEMPLATE_TALK 'Ciciarada_Mudel' 'Ciciarada_Modell'
NS_HELP 'Jüt' 'Jut' 'Ajut'
NS_HELP_TALK 'Ciciarada_Jüt' 'Ciciarada_Jut' 'Ciciarada_Ajut'
NS_CATEGORY 'Categuria' 'Categoria'
NS_CATEGORY_TALK 'Ciciarada_Categuria' 'Ciciarada_Categoria' 
/** @phpcs-require-sorted-array */
$specialPageAliases = [
	'Allmessages'               => '''CURRENT''' (ok) ► [ 'Messagg' ],
	'BrokenRedirects'           => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'RedirezionS-cepada' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' --> [ 'RedirezzionS'cepada' ]
	'Categories'                => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'Categurij' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' --> [ 'Categorie' ]
	'CreateAccount'             => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'CreaCünt' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' --> [ 'CreaCunt' ]
	'DoubleRedirects'           => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'RedirezionDubia' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY'''' --> [ 'RedirezzionDobia' ] '''OTHER POSSIBLE ALIASES''' ► [ 'RedirezzionDopia' ]
	'Listadmins'                => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'ListaAministradur' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' --> [ 'ListaAministrador' ] '''OTHER POSSIBLE ALIASES''' ► [ 'ListaMinistrador' ]
	'Listfiles'                 => '''CURRENT''' (ok) ► [ 'Imagin' ],
	'Listgrouprights'           => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'Lista_di_dirit_di_grüp' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY'''' --> [ 'Lista_di_dirit_di_grup' ]
	'Listusers'                 => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'Dupradur' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'Utent' ] '''OTHER POSSIBLE ALIASES''' [ 'Doprador' ]
	'Lonelypages'               => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'PaginnDaPerLur' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'PagineDePerLore' ] '''OTHER POSSIBLE ALIASES''' ► [ 'PagineDaPerLore' ] or [ 'PagineDeParLore']
	'Newimages'                 => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'ImaginNöv' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'ImaginNoeuve' ]
	'Preferences'               => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'Preferenz' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'Preferenze' ]
	'Randompage'                => '''CURRENT''' (OK)  ► [ 'PaginaAzardada' ],
	'Recentchanges'             => '''CURRENT''' (ok) ► [ 'CambiamentRecent' ],
	'Recentchangeslinked'       => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'MudifeghCulegaa' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ►[ 'ModifegheConlegade' ]
	'Specialpages'              => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'PaginnSpecial' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'PagineSpeciai' ]
	'Statistics'                => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'Statìstegh' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'Statisteghe' ]
	'Uncategorizedpages'        => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'PaginnMingaCategurizaa' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'PagineMingaCategorizade' ]
	'Upload'                    => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'CaregaSü' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'CaregaSu' ] '''OTHER POSSIBLE ALIASES''' ► [ 'CargaSu' ] 
	'Userlogin'                 => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'VenaDenter' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'VenDenter' ] '''OTHER POSSIBLE ALIASES''' ► [ 'VegnaDenter' ]
	'Userlogout'                => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'VaFö' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'VaFoeu' ] '''OTHER POSSIBLE ALIASES''' ► [ 'VaFoeura' ]
	'Watchlist'                 => '''CURRENT''' ► [ 'SutOeugg' ], '''BEST FOR WIKTIONARY''' ► [ 'SotOeugg' ]
];
/** @phpcs-require-sorted-array */
$magicWords = ['
	'img_left'                  => [ '1', 'manzina', 'sinistra', 'left' ],
	'img_none'                  => [ '1', 'nissön', 'nessuno', 'none', 'nissun' ],
	'img_right'                 => [ '1', 'drita', 'destra', 'right' ],
	'sitename'                  => [ '1', 'NUMSIT', 'NOMESITO', 'SITENAME', 'NOMSIT'],
];

--Gat lombart (talk) 20:55, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Gat lombart!
I can make the changes in the PHP files for you, but I have a few questions first. Thanks for the patience :)
First, the namespaces will be the same for all Lombard wikis, so saying that something is the "Best name for Wiktionary" is not so relevant. Is it also good for Wikipedia?
(And don't worry, the current names will be kept as aliases.)
Also, are you sure about "$1_Ciciarada"? It now works as "Wikipedia Ciciarada", so the word "Ciciarada" is in the end. In other "Ciciarada" namespaces, this word is the first: Ciciarada Utent, Ciciarada Archivi, etc. If "Wikipedia Ciciarada" looks correct, then it's fine with me, but I wanted to verify.
(I will probably have a few more questions later, but these are the important ones now.) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 07:40, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Amir E. Aharoni
► Yes, it also good for wikipedia, it is also good for wikipedia as long as you keep the aliases. @Sciking can you confirm?
► I think "Ciciarada Wikipedia" is better, but in any case it is not a major problem, Wikipedia_Ciciarada can be fine too. I think that this one is the only namespaces reversed because maybe the translators didn't quite understand what "$ 1" stands for.--Gat lombart (talk) 10:11, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As a Wikipedia sysop, I like those changes. Lombard Wikipedia was built by a strongly catalanist administration, which basically created a new language based on Catalan and with some Lombard element. When there was an administrative change, they quickly modified the names, but they used an uncertain orthography and left some errors ("Druvadur" is a grammatical error, as an example). Now we have far more orthographic stability and those names are better. We can, obviously, open a community talk on Wikipedia, especially on "Ciciarada Wikipedia" vs "Wikipedia Ciciarada" :) --Sciking (talk) 10:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks @Sciking and @Gat lombart. It would be nice to have some certainty about "Wikipedia Ciciarada" / "Ciciarada Wikipedia". To me it also looks like a mistake that could be made by people who didn't understand what $1 is, and it would probably be nice to use this opportunity to stop perpetuating it. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:29, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
NB I have filed phabricator:T291390 with the project namespace as "Ciciarada Wikizzionari". The rest of this discussion is obviously independent of the wiki creation and can go ahead separately :-) --MF-W 14:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
other namespaces
(New Lombard Ortography) Other possible aliases
NS_MODULE 'Modul' 'Modol', 'Modulo'
NS_TALK MODULE 'Ciciarada_Modul' 'Ciciarada_Modol', 'Ciciarada_Modulo',
NS_GADGET 'Acessori'
NS_TALK GADGET 'Ciciarada_Acessori' 'Ciciarada_Acessori'
NS_PORTAL (just for wikipedia) 'Portal'
NS_TALK PORTAL (just for wikipedia) 'Ciciarada_Portal'

--Gat lombart (talk) 14:06, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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