IRC office hours/Office hours 2014-06-11 (3)

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Chat on Toolserver migration to Tool Labs
11 June 2014
1700 - 1800 UTC

[17:00:29] <Silke_WMDE> Hey there and welcome to the - probably last - office hour before toolserver shutdown!
[17:00:55] <Silke_WMDE> Who is here? Hi Birgit_WMDE andrewbogott akosiaris Coren !
[17:01:02] <Birgit_WMDE> Hi everyone!
[17:01:04] <Coren> o/
[17:01:13] <andrewbogott> \o
[17:01:43] <Silke_WMDE> Let me introduce our new colleague Birgit_WMDE!
[17:02:06] <Birgit_WMDE> Hi, nice to join you all
[17:02:11] <Silke_WMDE> As you maybe already know, she is here to work on tech communication with communities.
[17:02:35] <Silke_WMDE> *\o/*
[17:02:40] <nosy> hello
[17:02:46] <Silke_WMDE> hi nosy!
[17:02:49] <Birgit_WMDE> hi nosy, welcome
[17:03:03] <nosy> hi Silke_WMDE & Birgit_WMDE
[17:03:16] <Silke_WMDE> I have started to look at all open bugs that are linked in the tracking bugs.
[17:03:54] <Silke_WMDE> I propose to go through them with Coren and andrewbogott. I started the list here:
[17:04:22] <matanya> hello
[17:04:27] <Silke_WMDE> hi matanya
[17:04:43] <Coren> Welcome Brigit
[17:04:49] <Birgit_WMDE> :)
[17:04:53] <Silke_WMDE> matanya: are you here with special questions?
[17:05:34] <matanya> Silke_WMDE: i'm just looking to see if i can help in anything
[17:05:35] <Dispenser> o/
[17:05:49] <Silke_WMDE> ok
[17:05:52] <Silke_WMDE> hi Dispenser
[17:06:18] <Silke_WMDE> so:
[17:07:10] <Silke_WMDE> Giftpflanze needs it to be done
[17:07:24] <Silke_WMDE> how much work is it Coren?
[17:07:43] <Coren> This is one I need help with; it requires building a debian package for it, but I have zero knowledge or skill with tcl
[17:08:00] <Silke_WMDE> Who could help you?
[17:08:08] <Coren> So I don't really know how a tcl package is built in the first place or how it gets installed "normally"
[17:08:29] <Silke_WMDE> Does Giftpflanze maybe know?
[17:09:27] <Coren> Anyone who knows both tcl and debian packaging; Giftpflanze is probably the best at tcl but I don't know whether he knows how to do packaging. That said, it might be possible for him to install it locally to his tool -- I know python users often do that when they have specialized needs.
[17:10:01] <Coren> The need for a package is really just to make the tcl fcgi code /globally/ available.
[17:10:18] <Coren> An, afaik, he's the only one with a stated need for it.
[17:11:38] <Silke_WMDE> so he should try and get it running "locally"
[17:11:48] <Silke_WMDE> if he manages to install it.
[17:12:20] <Coren> That's certainly the easiest way forward for him. Otherwise, I'll need to learn enough of tcl installation to be able to create a debian package, and that will take some time.
[17:12:56] <Silke_WMDE> ok. next one:
[17:13:04] <matanya> a sec
[17:13:17] <Silke_WMDE> yes matanya?
[17:13:34] <matanya> Coren: you know there is a pre build private debs for this right ?
[17:13:52] <Coren> matanya: No, I did not. Pointer?
[17:13:58] <matanya> we can review it, and if good, add to our apt
[17:13:59] <Dispenser> Is Toolserver software (e.g. rmytop, slayerd, etc.) ported to Tool Labs
[17:14:05] <matanya> e.g
[17:14:39] <Coren> matanya: Then yes, all it'd need is a review; adding it to the tool labs local apt repo is trivial.
[17:14:57] <Silke_WMDE> matanya: Coren ah, sounds good
[17:15:12] <Coren> (We don't even need to do a full production review; tool labs has its own repo)
[17:15:55] <Silke_WMDE> So what can I add as a comment to that bug?
[17:16:29] <matanya> build localy
[17:16:39] <matanya> and if needed will create a package
[17:16:49] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: Well, the next step changes from "someone needs to build a package" to "someone could review the existing package for correctness". Once I have an okay from someone who speaks tcl, adding it to the repo is - as I said - trivial.
[17:17:06] <Coren> But building locally remains an option.
[17:17:12] <Silke_WMDE> good.
[17:17:25] <Silke_WMDE> next one:
[17:17:32] * Coren nods.
[17:17:58] <matanya> Coren: one that seems even easier:
[17:18:26] <Silke_WMDE> (meanwhile Dispenser: Where did we ever talk about that software?)
[17:18:35] <Coren> This one requires final okay from Legal with specification on exactly how anonymisation should be done; then for me to create the view matching that. I know there are significant privacy concerns with this, so I don't expect that can be done in time for the ts shutdown.
[17:18:58] <Silke_WMDE> :(
[17:19:07] <andrewbogott> Is there a request in to legal already?
[17:19:18] <Coren> But afaik, that view is only useful for occasional stats gathering and no "live" tool depends on it.
[17:19:28] <Coren> andrewbogott: Yes, Luis has been interacting regularily with the bug.
[17:19:40] <andrewbogott> oh, so I see :)
[17:20:40] <Silke_WMDE> I don't know if any "live" tools depend on it.
[17:21:20] <Silke_WMDE> None is mentioned in the bug, I think.
[17:21:40] <Silke_WMDE> but is there any way to speed it up?
[17:21:57] <Coren> There /are/ tools that depend on the so-called "filtered" view, but that one was spun off into bug 64115 and that one has been resolved since.
[17:22:10] <Silke_WMDE> ah ok
[17:22:59] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: Not really (speed it up); the folk at Legal have limited bandwidth for this and given that this has potentially serious privacy issues they are being extra careful. Like I said, I doubt that can be done before August.
[17:23:07] <sund> Silke_WMDE: hi
[17:23:15] <Silke_WMDE> ok Coren
[17:23:23] <Silke_WMDE> hi sund
[17:23:41] <Silke_WMDE> netx one:
[17:23:59] <Silke_WMDE> sund: are you here with a specific question?
[17:24:46] <Coren> I hadn't noticed nosy was done with the copy; all I need to do is to move it to the backups share -- I'll be able to do this this afternoon.
[17:25:05] <Silke_WMDE> cool thanks
[17:25:16] <Silke_WMDE> then next:
[17:25:54] <Silke_WMDE> (I admit that I read that one for the first time today.)
[17:26:25] <Silke_WMDE> and I don't exactly know what it is about.
[17:26:30] <Dispenser> Silke_WMDE: I just noticed TS software missing. TS's Slayerd daemon kills programs > 4 GB (memory leaks). The rmytop (and mytop) lists active SQL queries; Toolserver: max_user_connections=15, max_connections=500; Labs: max_user_connections=512; max_connections=2000. And DaB wrote the query-killer script.
[17:26:30] <Coren> That's not tools-labs related; that's just for the API. 59167 was the replication/tool labs half and is complete.
[17:27:20] <Coren> Dispenser: There is no current plan to port/replicate those tools.
[17:27:31] <nosy> Dispenser: probably slayerd could be replaced throug cgroups
[17:27:53] <Coren> slayerd has an equivalent written by Petr that has similar functionality
[17:28:33] <Silke_WMDE> Coren: Do you know its name?
[17:28:36] <gifti> Coren: for building tclfcgi i would need the tcl header file (=dev package?)
[17:28:37] <YuviPanda> terminatord, I believe
[17:28:45] <Coren> terminatord, iirc
[17:29:00] <matanya> yes gifti
[17:29:04] <Silke_WMDE> ok. Dispenser, you could check out that tool
[17:29:24] <Coren> gifti: That's simple enough; if you find the name of the dev packages you need it takes me ~60s to add them to -login and -dev. :-)
[17:29:50] <gifti> tcl8.5-dev?
[17:30:03] <Coren> gifti: That one is easy enough; do you know if you need others?
[17:30:16] <gifti> not yet
[17:30:28] <matanya> Coren: in ubuntu it is tcl-dev
[17:30:32] <Coren> gifti: Hit me on IRC after the meeting and I can set this up for you.
[17:30:38] <gifti> ok
[17:30:51] <Silke_WMDE> coming to
[17:31:05] <matanya> ref:
[17:31:42] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: Yes, like I said, this is not Labs related at all.
[17:31:47] <Silke_WMDE> ah ok
[17:32:13] <Silke_WMDE> so I'm removing the dependency
[17:32:42] <Silke_WMDE> then:
[17:33:22] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: Unnoticed duplicate of 57697; closing now.
[17:33:32] <Silke_WMDE> ok
[17:33:59] <Silke_WMDE> gifti again:
[17:34:57] <Silke_WMDE> Coren: you promised news on that one
[17:34:59] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: This one just needs a backport; it's not very complicated I just need to set an hour aside for it.
[17:35:14] <sund> Silke_WMDE: nope
[17:35:17] <Coren> I'll try to get to it tomorrow (commenting)
[17:35:24] <Silke_WMDE> thanks
[17:35:51] <Silke_WMDE> i suppose this is not related to migration, right:
[17:37:30] <andrewbogott> seems not
[17:37:51] <Silke_WMDE> ok, then:
[17:40:12] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: That's rather low on my priority list; it blocks nothing and is needed by nothing - but it's also not a very complicated change so it just always gets delayed for "when I have time".
[17:40:57] <Silke_WMDE> nosy Any opinion?
[17:41:50] <Silke_WMDE> the wiki..... where is Reedy?
[17:42:18] <nosy> Silke_WMDE: i'd trust merl there
[17:42:55] <nosy> what is so important about this wiki?
[17:43:13] <nosy> isnt it like keeping the manual of the first car although the car is gone?
[17:43:20] <Silke_WMDE> nosy: Coren: I mean *I* would just do it for merl because he does so much for the Wikiverse.
[17:43:44] <Silke_WMDE> nosy LOL
[17:43:58] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: What we discussed in Zürich stands; it's almost certainly never going to be deployed as a production wiki - any historical site will have to be community maintained.
[17:44:27] <Silke_WMDE> sure Coren - and Reedy offered to transform it into a tool
[17:45:53] <Silke_WMDE> I think, we'll see how important it is. We won't just delete it, so we can still resurrect it if it stays untouched this month.
[17:46:05] <Silke_WMDE> the redirect webserver:
[17:46:49] <Silke_WMDE> there is a patch set by Tim sitting somewhere
[17:48:34] <Silke_WMDE> Coren andrewbogott: nosy and I were discussing to move the domain at some point in August.
[17:49:31] * Coren reads context.
[17:49:47] <Silke_WMDE> because until then OSM and/or merl might need the Toolserver.
[17:50:27] <Silke_WMDE> There are different tickets on that topic: apart the one mentioned, there is also
[17:51:55] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: I think this will need a wider discussion than just me an Andrew; I expect we need to open dialogue with Erik to see that Engineering is all on the same page.
[17:52:27] <Silke_WMDE> Coren: that second one?
[17:53:15] <Coren> Both, really, this involves the "big picture" on how to transition. But then again, this is considerably less urgent than the user-facing tools migration - nobody is going to just yank the server away from the rack come July 31. :-)
[17:53:22] <andrewbogott> Doesn't it cause outages either way? if we move it early, it will precede some tool migrations… if we move it late, users will keep hitting toolserver after it's officially shut down
[17:53:50] <Coren> andrewbogott: Better late with a landing page explaining things than just pull the old server from under tool's feet.
[17:54:06] <Silke_WMDE> yeah
[17:54:07] <matanya> 301 won't be enough in the mean time ?
[17:54:23] <Coren> Also, I don't think anyone has decided what to do with auxiliary services like mail, etc.
[17:54:27] <andrewbogott> Yeah… I was thinking about a tool having a split-brain when it's running in both places, but I guess that has to be left to the tool owner to figure out
[17:54:52] <Coren> So yeah - we need to open dialogue with Engineering as a whole about how to finalize the transition once the deadline is past for tools.
[17:55:24] <Silke_WMDE> What can I do for this to happen / to support?
[17:57:16] <Silke_WMDE> matanya: right now the people choose how to redirect themselves, 301, 302 etc . that will do (
[17:57:22] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: I should think that an email to Erik/Mark with the high-level points outlined should get the discussion started; possibly with resources being assigned.
[17:57:32] <Silke_WMDE> ok
[17:57:48] * Silke_WMDE is adding this to her list
[17:58:04] <Coren> Because there are general guestions to be answered first like "How much do we want to take over, how long to we maintain it, etc."
[17:58:22] <Silke_WMDE> forever :D
[17:58:53] <Silke_WMDE> yeah, I'll start a discussion about this.
[17:59:37] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: I think promising "we'll do X forever" in the name of the Foundation is above my pay grade. :-P
[17:59:51] <Silke_WMDE> :)
[17:59:57] <Silke_WMDE> That was it as to the bugs on my list.
[18:00:10] <Silke_WMDE> how is the tileserver in labs?
[18:00:48] <Coren> Silke_WMDE: I hear it's going well though there are some kinks left. I'm probably not the best one to ask, however, as I don't really participate.
[18:01:24] <Silke_WMDE> sure. nosy said they are in the middle for migrating tools, so it sounds on the right way
[18:01:57] <Silke_WMDE> Are there any other topics that I'm forgetting right now?
[18:02:14] <Coren> None that I am not also forgetting, at least. :-)
[18:02:54] <Silke_WMDE> OK. So I'll update the bugs we talked about and did not already update
[18:03:21] <Silke_WMDE> I'll send that mail we just talked about.
[18:03:41] <Silke_WMDE> And we're all curiously waiting for the end of the month...
[18:03:49] <Birgit_WMDE> yaah
[18:04:00] <Silke_WMDE> :)
[18:04:51] <Silke_WMDE> Thanks for attending Coren andrewbogott Dispenser Birgit_WMDE gift matanya