IRC office hours/Office hours 2016-02-12

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[18:50:52] <Karen-WMF> #startmeeting Community Engagement office hour
[18:50:52] <wm-labs-meetbot`> Meeting started Fri Feb 12 18:50:52 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Karen-WMF. Information about MeetBot at
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[18:50:52] <wm-labs-meetbot`> The meeting name has been set to 'community_engagement_office_hour'
[18:52:06] <Karen-WMF> Hi all. Just starting set-up for the CE office hour. We'll be starting that in about ten minutes. Logging is activated for the meeting from this point :)
[18:55:46] <Ziko> hi wikimedians!
[18:56:44] <WereSpielChqrs> Hi Ziko!
[19:01:37] <Karen-WMF> Ok, so. Hi everyone! I'm Karen Brown, one of the WMF Community Advocates and I'm handling the framework for this Community Engagement office hour.
[19:02:21] <MarkTraceur> Woohoo Karen-WMF
[19:02:42] <i_jethrobot> woo Karen-WMF! : )
[19:03:02] <Karen-WMF> With us today we have Maggie_Dennis (Director of Support & Safety, Interim Director of Community Engagement), qgil (Quim Gil, Engineering Community Manager), sikob (Siko Bouterse, Director of Community Resources)
[19:03:09] <poore5> hi Karen-WMF, thanks for facilitating
[19:03:17] <Karen-WMF> and Rosemary Rein!
[19:03:29] <Karen-WMF> (director of Program Capacity & Learning)
[19:03:37] <rosemarywmf> Hi Karen. Thanks for hosting. Hi everyone.
[19:03:40] <Maggie_Dennis> Thank you, Karen. :)
[19:03:42] <Maggie_Dennis> Hello, everyone!
[19:03:47] <foks> \o/
[19:03:58] <MarkTraceur> Much channel heat.
[19:04:05] * Jamesofur cheers for the team
[19:04:37] <Maggie_Dennis> The purpose of this hour is just for community engagement to talk to everyone about our recent reorganization...
[19:04:46] <Maggie_Dennis> and about our search for a permanent department lead...
[19:04:49] <Maggie_Dennis> and to answer questions. :)
[19:04:57] <Maggie_Dennis> This is not a planned presentation, but a very open session.
[19:05:19] <Maggie_Dennis> While I can pretty much chat until I'm blue in the face, I'd like to give you guys a chance to lead!
[19:05:26] <Maggie_Dennis> Does anybody have any questions?
[19:05:29] <foks>  :D
[19:06:26] <foks> What's the hierarchy looking like in CE now, then?
[19:06:31] <WereSpielChqrs> Is there going to be community engagement re the Knowledge Engine - aim, scope and soforth?
[19:06:39] <Maggie_Dennis> Foks...
[19:06:41] <foks> (You probably said in the email, tbh)
[19:06:55] <Maggie_Dennis> the current hierarchy is that I am the interim lead.
[19:07:01] <Maggie_Dennis> I am also still directing support and safety. :)
[19:07:07] <foks> Busy busy. :)
[19:07:19] <rosemarywmf> Yea Maggie
[19:07:23] <Maggie_Dennis> The other three groups are led by Rosemary, Quim and Siko, although as I'm sure you guys may have seen Siko is also departing.
[19:07:30] * foks nods.
[19:07:36] <Maggie_Dennis> Much to my sorrow. :)
[19:07:51] <foks> OK. I'll let you answer in a stack so will wait for a bit.
[19:07:59] <Maggie_Dennis> We will be looking for a strong lead in her role and are exploring options.
[19:08:09] <foks> Understandable!
[19:08:32] <Maggie_Dennis> Before moving on -
[19:09:20] <Maggie_Dennis> Rosemarywmf, would you like to talk about the groups that have come together under your umbrella?
[19:09:30] <Maggie_Dennis> And Quim, perhaps you could explain the combination in your team? :)
[19:09:37] <Maggie_Dennis> (oops - qgil)
[19:09:45] <qgil> Hi
[19:09:52] <rosemarywmf> Sure. We are also hosting office hours next week and a google hangout but here is the link
[19:10:15] <Karen-WMF> WereSpielChqrs: just acknowledging that we saw your question and it's in the queue to answer :)
[19:10:17] <qgil> The Technical Collaboration team has been doing some homework these days: (and subpages)
[19:10:52] <poore5> Maggie_Dennis, I have a question about the way that support and resources is being divided across Community Resources and Program Capacity and Learning. At this point I'm unclear exactly how it will work for affiliates who are looking for support.
[19:10:55] <rosemarywmf> We have combined Education, Libraries and Learning and Evaluation into an integrated team to support communities as well as support for Affiliate Partnerships .
[19:10:57] <qgil> We are a flat team now, but we keep Community Liaisons and Developer Relations as subteams focuson on content creators and developers, respectively.
[19:11:45] <qgil> (Sorry for stumble upon rosemarywmf 's words, as a result of my excitement)  :)
[19:12:04] * aude waves
[19:12:06] <foks> OK, so it sounds like CE's kind of stolen some of these subteams from other depts?
[19:12:26] <foks> Unless I'm way off and Education etc was always CE
[19:12:53] <poore5> As a committee member of a grant committee, I'm not sure where to send folks for resources.
[19:13:08] <RoanKattouw> foks: Those were always CE AFAIK
[19:13:11] <rosemarywmf> Education was in CE and has been helping us look across programs including libraries and glam to identify the blockers.
[19:13:13] <Maggie_Dennis> WereSpielChqrs, Discovery will be doing community reach out - our newest community liaison Chris Koerner is assigned to work with that team.
[19:13:19] <foks> Ah, very good
[19:13:51] <mutante> what is Libraries? is that what GLAM does?
[19:14:08] <rosemarywmf> and respond. We started consultations with program leaders in November and have an emerging roadmap. Hoping our community members weigh in on the conversation about criteria and most critical needs.
[19:14:11] <mutante> oh, i'm lagged. sorry
[19:14:38] <WereSpielChqrs> Good to hear, any ideas on timescale re Knowledge Engine engagement?
[19:15:08] <Maggie_Dennis> I don't know their immediate plans, WereSpielChqrs. There's a page at that should cover timelines once they're prepared.
[19:15:23] <thelmadatter> #rosemarywmf... by program leaders... do you mean the Education Collab?
[19:15:31] <Karen-WMF> (poore5: sikob is typing an answer for you, hold the line for a moment)
[19:15:50] <WereSpielChqrs> Thanks Maggie.
[19:16:18] <rosemarywmf> Note: PC & L team will work closely with resources. Good news is across 5 different teams, a single entry Wikimedia Resource Hub will hopefully help committees and community find the resources they need.
[19:16:38] <rosemarywmf> From searching to finding.
[19:17:02] <Waggie> I'm pretty green here, so forgive me if this is a silly or inappropriate question: I've heard concerns that en-Wikipedia may suffer from diversity in the ethnic and economic cross-section of it's editors. I know almost nothing about this myself, but am curious. Could you tell me of some initiatives to research and address this?
[19:17:14] <sikob> re the question on support and resources for affiliates:
[19:17:15] <sikob> Community Resources will still be supporting affiliates in need of funding! We're partnering closely with the PC&L team where there's affiliates in need of programmatic support, etc. Still experimenting and clarifying, so happy to have feedback about what works and doesn't as we try this out
[19:17:16] <aude> i remember last summer somethign about a partnership with the World Bank that WMF was leading
[19:17:29] <aude> is that going on and will wmf do more of that thing
[19:17:56] <aude> and how are you involving chapters and other interested "movement" people in such initaitives?
[19:18:00] <sikob> We're happy that CE will be able to offer stronger support for affiliates who aren't receiving funds from WMF via the PC&L team now as well :)
[19:18:01] <aude> initiatives*
[19:18:09] <WereSpielChqrs> Historically the Library bit of the WMF has only had a small overlap with the GLAM program. Is there scope for more engagement between GLAM and the WMF?
[19:18:30] <aude>
[19:18:57] <rosemarywmf> Yes, we have reached out to Glam and are hosting a conversation on meta about specific glam support/tools required.
[19:19:01] <Karen-WMF> (Waggie, aude, WereSpielChqrs: your questions are now in the queue)
[19:19:36] <aude> WereSpielChqrs: there is an rfc for discovery
[19:19:48] <Maggie_Dennis> Waggie, I'm pretty new to this role myself, but I know that there are some existing community groups working on this issue. For instance, there's the AfroCrowd group out of New York. i_jethrobot may be able to talk more about grantmaking's thoughts there. :)
[19:19:53] <aude> i think it's important for people to give input there
[19:20:04] <qgil> aude, the World Bank initiative had to stop because their data was not compatible with Wikidata's CC0 requirements...
[19:20:12] <aude> qgil: ok
[19:20:20] <qgil> aude, still, that use case helped us coming up with
[19:20:28] <Waggie> Maggie_Dennis: Thanks!
[19:20:31] <qgil> (which still needs to get its own inertia, but it's a start)
[19:20:42] <thelmadatter> Does the reorganization mean that education programs and affiliates are now on the same footing... or will there remain the assumption that outside the US/Canada, ed programs are under chapters?
[19:20:42] <rosemarywmf> Important to note affiliates is not just chapter but also user groups. The increase in user groups 46% in 2015.
[19:20:44] <aude> (and wonder more generally about such partnerships and WMF leading them vs. supporting chapters + affiliates + volunteers to lead them)
[19:20:52] <Jamesofur> <-- AfroCrowd
[19:20:53] <aude> or at least communicating more closely
[19:20:59] <Maggie_Dennis> Thank you, Jamesofur!
[19:21:07] <aude> thanks qgil for the answer
[19:21:28] <aude> rosemarywmf: very true
[19:21:31] <thelmadatter> #rosemarywmf, but usergroups do not get to participate in the selection of affliate board members
[19:22:00] <rosemarywmf> PC & L will focus on two areas: Infrastructure to help volunteers and and development of the leaders, that's you who are at the hear of the work.
[19:22:19] <i_jethrobot> Waggie: One ongoing initiative from the comminity is AfroCrowd:, with an event happening later this month.
[19:22:23] <qgil> aude, yes, Wiki Loves Open Data was inspired in GLAM and I hope/expect that chapters etc will take the initiative there, not the WMF.
[19:22:57] <aude> qgil: sounds good
[19:23:18] <Waggie> i_jethrobot, thank you, I'll take a look!
[19:23:19] <aude> i could be wrong but sense lack of communication re: world bank (e.g. with the DC chapter)
[19:23:28] <rosemarywmf> As a note, core philosophy of PC & L is we support leaders, do what they do best. We do not do the work. We'd be no good at it!
[19:23:32] <aude> who has worked with them before
[19:24:53] <aude> chapters or user groups, if they exist in the local area, are imho often well suited to lead such things but might definitely need help from wmf and others :)
[19:25:23] <Karen-WMF> Ok I believe we're caught up in the question queue...anyone have more for us (and/or did I accidentally miss someone who hasn't been answered?)
[19:26:40] <pearley> mutante: the Library in CE is the WIkipedia Library (as WSQ says, only "Library" overlap in "GLAM")
[19:26:44] <qgil> aude, could be, could be not. This deserves a discussion on its own. Sometimes people in big orgs will feel more comfortable arranging meetings with executives at the WMF, sometimes the local group will not have a clue or any interest in the topic of the big org located in their region... Sometimes the opposite will work.
[19:27:03] <DanielK_WMDE> i'd like to point to the Open Knowledge Foundation for all things related to open data, especially government data
[19:27:17] <Karen-WMF> rosemarywmf: thelmadatter asked: "Does the reorganization mean that education programs and affiliates are now on the same footing... or will there remain the assumption that outside the US/Canada, ed programs are under chapters?"
[19:27:21] <aude> qgil: we were pretty successful in DC with talking with organizations like the National Archives, smithsonian, etc.
[19:27:29] <DanielK_WMDE> in germany, they have a strong network of volunteer developers, under the umbrella term OKLabs
[19:27:39] * DanielK_WMDE is here accidentally, and hopes he isn't off topic
[19:27:43] <i_jethrobot> Waggie: I also want to note that an IdeaLab campaign (like Inspire) to attract and fund ideas to better represent people of diverse economic and ethnic backgrounds in our projects makes a great deal of sense to me. So, I'll keep it in consideration.
[19:27:44] <aude> even have had editathon(s) organized with the white house :)
[19:28:03] <qgil> aude, I'm not saying you are not right. If you are interested, let's discuss in wikidata mailing list or some Phabricator task.  :)
[19:28:08] <aude> so i say the chapters should be brought in
[19:28:34] <poore5> waggie, you are right, there is loads of work to be done to increase diversity. Black history month it is a targeted focus this month.
[19:28:40] <aude> qgil: happy to talk another time, like at the hackathon :)
[19:28:54] <qgil> +1
[19:29:22] <Maggie_Dennis> DanielK_WMDE, welcome! :D
[19:29:27] <rosemarywmf> Re: Education: Our team supports global program leaders with a focus on mentoring of the program leaders. We are collaborating with WIKI Ed for example on customizing their dashboard for global use to make it easy for all program leaders to run programs.
[19:29:29] <Waggie> Thanks folks, I appreciate the information and the links, I will investigate further. :)
[19:30:26] <mutante> pearley: thank you
[19:30:29] <i_jethrobot> Thanks, for that project as well, poore5.
[19:34:12] <thelmadatter> I dont understand your answer #rosemarywmf. What does mentoring mean?
[19:35:42] <poore5> rosemarywmf, the top down focus of the Education program concerns me. I'm not convinced that it matches the capacity of volunteers. Do we have evaluation showing that we are reaching people on wiki in adequate numbers?
[19:35:51] <Karen-WMF> (rosemarywmf saw your follow-up and is working on it, thelmadatter - she's having some connectivity issues, so please bear with us...)
[19:37:00] <thelmadatter> thanks
[19:38:30] <Cornelius_WMDE> Hi, all, sorry for being late. I haven't found one question in the backlog, so I'm asking it
[19:38:57] <aude> hi Cornelius_WMDE :)
[19:39:10] <Cornelius_WMDE> sikob, Maggie_Dennis: Is there any timeframe for finding someone for CE's lead position?
[19:39:57] <Maggie_Dennis> Cornelius_WMDE - my personal goal is within 6 months.
[19:40:07] <Maggie_Dennis> Obviously, that depends on the candidates we receive. :)
[19:40:49] <sikob> and in terms of filling my role, cornelius, we hope to be able to announce that much much sooner than 6 months :P
[19:40:57] <Cornelius_WMDE> okay, 6 months smth to plan within.
[19:41:02] <Cornelius_WMDE> sikob: that's good to know
[19:41:05] <Cornelius_WMDE>  :)
[19:41:36] <Cornelius_WMDE> within = with
[19:42:22] <rosemarywmf> Hi sorry for the delay. 10 years of Education 40,000 students 85,000 Wikipedia articles 1.5 billion bytes added 86 countries
[19:42:45] <Karen-WMF> thelmadatter: (I'm relaying this for rosemarywmf, as her client garbled her message-sending order) "We support chapters as well as program leaders. Primarily our support is through the tools and peer mentorship, for example the collab. Posting some other data in a moment..."
[19:43:00] <Karen-WMF> so reverse those, and you have a full paragraph :)
[19:43:16] <rosemarywmf> Hoping I can help with some clarification. Note: The work is emerging and we want program leaders to weigh in. For example we found tools and resources across programs through this work.
[19:49:47] <Karen-WMF> Ten minute warning on this office-hour
[19:52:28] <Waggie> Thank you again to the WMF staff, your hard work and detailed answers are much appreciated.. I've got to run.
[19:52:32] <Karen-WMF> Any more questions, or outstanding ones that haven't gotten response yet?
[19:52:37] <Jamesofur> Thanks for coming Waggie !
[19:52:55] <aude> i can't think of more questions right now, myself (a bit sad that sikob and luis are leaving) :(
[19:53:06] <aude> wish you the best moving forward
[19:53:34] <Cornelius_WMDE> oh, ok.
[19:53:40] <aude> thanks Maggie_Dennis for stepping into the interim leadership role
[19:54:01] <Maggie_Dennis> Thank you, aude. :)
[19:54:15] <Maggie_Dennis> I'll do my best!
[19:54:19] <aude>  :)
[19:54:26] <poore5> Yes, I also wish every the best for new organization and roles
[19:54:52] <Karen-WMF> For those of you with questions about PC&L specifically, rosemarywmf wants me to note that Program Capacity and Learning team will host Office Hours on Tuesday, February 16, at 8 am PST, in this channel
[19:55:05] <Karen-WMF> (five minute warning!)
[19:55:30] <Cornelius_WMDE> just a small question, Maggie_Dennis: Have you thought about coming to the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin (mid-April)? The previous conferences have benefited from the presence of the CE's lead
[19:55:38] <Cornelius_WMDE> I know, you're only interim
[19:55:45] <Cornelius_WMDE> but 6 months in the Wikimedia-world is a lot
[19:55:48] <Maggie_Dennis> Cornelius_WMDE, I am thinking about it. :)
[19:56:00] <aude> +1 to Cornelius_WMDE's suggestion
[19:56:13] <Maggie_Dennis> I'm also talking to staff who are already on the list to go, figuring out where my attention makes sense.
[19:56:24] <Maggie_Dennis> Six months is not as long a time as it used to sound to me. :D
[19:56:41] <Maggie_Dennis> We're halfway through the third quarter of our year already! The time flies!
[19:56:56] <qgil> (our fiscal year)  ;)
[19:57:13] <Maggie_Dennis> (Yes, the weird thing of greeting the new year with third quarter....)
[19:57:32] <Cornelius_WMDE> yeah.. and a lot happened in these three quarters, ;) But, cool, good to know
[19:57:55] <Jamesofur> Thanks Karen-WMF for facilitating!
[19:58:11] <poore5> Thanks everyone
[19:58:19] <Maggie_Dennis> Thank you, poore5!
[19:58:31] <Maggie_Dennis> And seconding thanks to Karen-WMF.
[19:58:37] <qgil> Thanks everyone!
[19:58:56] <Karen-WMF>  :) Thank you all, and I apologize if I dropped any balls, this was my first time organizing an office hours
[19:59:04] <i_jethrobot> Thanks for joining us and for your questions, everyone.
[19:59:38] <Maggie_Dennis> Thank you all for coming! And please do reach out if you have questions or suggestions.
[20:00:02] <Karen-WMF> #endmeeting
[20:00:03] <Maggie_Dennis> Happy weekend everyone!
[20:00:03] <wm-labs-meetbot`> Meeting ended Fri Feb 12 20:00:02 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
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