So I did this to preserve the links from Main Page. It might be better to add these to the list of columns on User:Larry Sanger (restoring this page to a redirect), but I wouldn't dare touch the user page without Larry's permission. -- Toby 20:42 Feb 13, 2003 (UTC)
Toby, I have my own page, at User:Larry Sanger, and just like you, I would like to be responsible for representing myself to the public on pages that are named after me. It is too easy to confuse the page Larry Sanger with user:Larry Sanger. Hence the redirect. If you want to preserve these links, I can't object, but please do it under a title that does not lead users to form distorted opinions about my contributions to Wikipedia based on slanderous and otherwise ridiculous material about me, written by my most hostile detractors. Why not put them on User:Toby Bartels/Articles that I want to see preserved about Larry Sanger? ;-)
Did you know that it was Jimbo who removed those links to the articles from the front page?
If you want to help ensure that I don't return to do any significant work on Wikipedia, you'll continue to highlight material that is extremely unflattering and unfair to me. You'll also continue to ignore the fact that I am pretty much singled out for this sort of treatment, among all Wikipedians. --Larry Sanger
- and there are excellent reasons for that, as any review of the material proves.
Since the value of the pages is historical, I'm moving the links to History of Wikipedia/Articles by and about Larry Sanger. Does that seem like an appropriate title to you?
- No, because we are trying to eliminate subpages. Most of those articles have things to say about issues beyond Larry Sanger personally. Accordingly, it would be decent if someone other than you would sort through them and figure out just what was causing you to come into conflict with so many other contributors.
- When you write "you" above, I assume that you mean Larry; you're actually replying to me. Anyway, subpages don't seem to unreasonable in this situation; Meta-Wikipedia is more informal than Wikipedia, and it is has a more rigid structure that makes subpages sometimes useful. (Similarly, there are subpages in the [[en:Wikipedia:]] namespace.) But if you move it to another reasonable title, then I won't object. -- Toby 01:37 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)
Of course, I didn't know that Jimbo was the one that removed the links from Main Page, just as I didn't know that you were the one that removed them from Larry Sanger, since those edits were done anonymously; thanks for cluing me in.
BTW, most of the links that we're talking about are to items written by you, less than half by your detractors (not counting the offline articles about trolls presumably written by people that have never heard of you). -- Toby 00:57 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)
- Perhaps Larry just wants to avoid accountability for his own writings? -- 142
Things certainly have come to a bad pass when the only thing that brings me to Wikipedia is defending my reputation. In case you care, I do so long enough to remind myself why I'm staying away. Congratulations to all of you who have failed to defend me--and others--when trolls like 142 and 24 (very likely the same person, aka Craig Hubley) attempt to undermine us. In my case, even after I'm long gone!
A little advice to all of you who care: if you want Wikipedia to be a place that is welcoming, that ordinary polite folks want to spend a lot of time on in the long term, you're going to have to deal with people like 142/24 appropriately. So it's us and our hard work and expertise, or them and their trolling and slander.
Congratulations: your current policies and leadership ensures that it's them that you get. Rationalize your policies by accusing us of having "thin skin": I call it dignity. --Larry Sanger
- Perhaps if you ceased childish attempts to slander individuals who are not here to defend themselves, and also ceased the habit of lumping together all of your opponents together into a single mythical entity, you would have a better life.
- There appears to be exactly one attempt at slander here - your own attempt to define several characters as one, and accuse them of some kind of conspiracy or desire to 'undermine us'. But a review of the contributions of the IP numbers you mention seems to reveal a rather more constructive attitude than your own.
"I call it dignity. --Larry Sanger"
- And dignity it is - the philosophy of all cats, involving plenty of preening, posturing, posing, bluffing, spying, pouncing when you think there's no one watching. You appear to be a pathetic figure, Larry Sanger, and perhaps the project is best off without you. --142
And as long as people continue to tolerate the likes of you, 142, people like me will not want to have anything to do with Wikipedia. Over and out. --Larry Sanger
- So, to "tolerate" fair play debate is bad, "the likes of you" includes anyone you can identify as an enemy or a threat, and "people like you" are... what? The dignified? The righteous? The chosen? The great? The boss? Good riddance Larry - 142