Talk:Wikimedia URL Shortener/Archive 1

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Custom links[edit]

How do we requests custom links? For example, w.wiki/q should link to the Wikidata query service, https://query.wikidata.org/. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:10, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

We should also do this for all the Wikipedias, so w.wiki/en should link to en.wikipedia, etc. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:22, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
I'd also recommend to create custom links for chapters. ~ Nahid Talk 13:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
It is not possible to create custom links. The new URL is created following an incrementing pattern (you can see an example here). Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
The page lists several such links which have already been created (/w, /d, /s, /$ etc). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:42, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Because of the way this is designed, there's no way to have custom short URLs. It just goes up incrementally and the only way to have a custom short url is to request at the right order and the right time, that's how we were able to put "d" in place but for things that are longer that one letter, we need to put around 3000 short urls just to get there (see the order at phab:P8300) Amir (talk) 14:53, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ladsgroup: How about running script to set all 3000 to point to a holding page (this page might do), then manually changing the few that are needed elsewhere? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:27, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ladsgroup: did you see this? Also, I see from your comment below that it is possible to assign specific codes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:13, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Is custom URL requests something that could be implemented down the line? While the intended use seems to be digital ("for example on social networks or on wikis" from the ingress), having a URL that is easier to read, write and remember (e.g. w.wiki/CoolEvent2019) would also be useful. /Sebastian Berlin (WMSE) (talk) 08:11, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Gblock[edit]

Blocked users (on Meta or globally blocked) are not allowed to create short URLs

Globally blocked as an IP or an account? The latter does not exist. — regards, Revi 12:36, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
It basically has the same restriction as editing on meta. If you're not allowed to edit pages on meta because either you're anonymous and you're IP is blocked, or your user is blocked on meta or any other reason, you can't make a short url. Amir (talk) 14:55, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
I take it as blocked on (i.e. enwiki) and not on Meta will allow them to use but not the vice versa? (Globally locked users obviously cannot log in so it's not a question) — regards, Revi 18:19, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

If there's a severe case of information disclosure, stewards can remove the redirect

Also, we haven't been notified (to my best knowledge) how to do this: please send how-to to stewards-l@lists.wikimedia.org (If it fails, to stewards@wikimedia.org). — regards, Revi 12:39, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Found the section after saving this but notifying us of upcoming our new responsibility would be better than people suddenly requesting this. — regards, Revi 12:41, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Yeah. If you have any questions. let me know. Amir (talk) 14:55, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Well... what I wanted to say is it is not really fair to us if you suddenly make a feature available to us without telling us it is there — how can we know it is there? — regards, Revi 15:13, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Agreed with Revi; a short post to SN outlining what the right is and how to use it would be appreciated. – Ajraddatz (talk) 18:20, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
I'm terribly sorry for this. I was planning to ask stewards but it fell in the cracks. The cases you need to handle is very very limited, when someone makes a short url to things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_name_of_User:Ladsgroup_is_Santa_Clause and it gets surfaced. Amir (talk) 19:06, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Hello @-revi and Ajraddatz: I sent an email to stewards@wikimedia.org yesterday, I hope that you got it. I'm going to repost the message on SN as well. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 07:56, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Wikidata property proposal[edit]

Please see d:Wikidata:Property proposal/WMF short URL. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:29, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Translation problem[edit]

Hi. The text that was added today as translatable can't be translated - saving throws an error "wrong namespace". IKhitron (talk) 09:05, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

@IKhitron: I encountered the same problem yesterday. But I just saved it successfully.--Xiplus (talk) 02:03, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, works for me too now. IKhitron (talk) 11:50, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

w.wiki/m to point to Meta instead to en:Mexico City[edit]

Hello https://w.wiki/m points to en:Mexico City. Other projects were assigned short urls based on the initials of their projects such as https://w.wiki/cCommons. Can we make https://w.wiki/m point to https://meta.wikimedia.org/ please? Thank you.

Pings to @Ladsgroup and Lea Lacroix (WMDE) as instructed. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 12:22, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Once assigned, changing one is impossible, you can change them in the database directly but it takes month to propagate through caching layers and will create lots of confusion. I will assign next similar ones 3m, 3b, 3q to meta, wikibooks and wikiquote respectively. Amir (talk) 12:42, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ladsgroup and MarcoAurelio: See phab:T220432. I think those and similar "easter eggs" should be fixed sooner rather than later, if they would ever be useful. Jc86035 (talk) 06:12, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ladsgroup: As noted on the ticket, the main information page says stewards can delete any of the links. Is it not possible to delete links and then create new links under the same URLs? Does this also suffer from caching issues? Jc86035 (talk) 06:58, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Hello @Jc86035:, just like Q items on Wikidata, it is possible to delete a link, but not to recreate it or reassign it to another URL. The first URLs have been created in order to test the system before it is available for every users. The main point was to link to different wikis, to make sure that the feature works as expected. A new round of testing will fix the gender bias - more women have been included. Once the feature is deployed, everyone will be able to create short URLs and the first ones that were created won't be so important anymore. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 08:31, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Short URLS should all be https by default[edit]

Links such as http://w.wiki/c should be rewritten to https://w.wiki/c then to point to their designated destination. On a test I did yesterday, apparently links like https://w.wiki/c are rewritten to http://w.wiki/c and then point to the destination. That'd be rather bad. In addition, when the extension is enabled, Short URLs should be generated and be avalaible only via HTTPS in my opinion. Thank you, —MarcoAurelio (talk) 11:54, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Pings to @Ladsgroup and Lea Lacroix (WMDE) as instructed. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 12:22, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
That's a valid point, please make a phabricator ticket and ping traffic team, these redirects happen at VCL and varnish level. Amir (talk) 12:24, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

MarcoAurelio: I can't reproduce it this website says http://w.wiki/6 firsts gets a 301 to https://w.wiki/6 then gets 302 to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T183647#3871427 Amir (talk) 13:08, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Using wget locally I get the same result. Jc86035 (talk) 06:13, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Allow Meta-wiki admins delete them[edit]

Hi. What about allowing Meta-wiki admins delete them? it doesn't seem to be needed to limit it to stewards. It doesn't look very controversial, especially if you compare it to other metawiki admins tasks. Matiia (talk) 01:22, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

I do not support this idea. Managing short urls discloses the original urls behind them. Thus we don't want to expose to people not covered by the ANIP content that is --or should be-- hidden or suppressed pursuant the OS policy. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 12:19, 4 April 2019 (UTC) (PD: Special:Diff/18988223).
I had originally suggested this before I knew about the OS component. Since that's the case, I agree this should remain with stewards. – Ajraddatz (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ajraddatz: there's not many of us, but we could easily add it to meta-oversighters as well if that is the only concern. @MarcoAurelio: as far as uncovering the underlying url's - eventually we may get many of these to make it more time-intense, but they can be enumerated anonymously with simple GET scripts, it should be pretty trival for anyone to just query the web servers and get the re-directions. — xaosflux Talk 20:29, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

It's alive![edit]

Hello all,

The feature is now live at Special:UrlShortener :)

I already filled a ticket about the limit of characters being too small for some queries, if you spot some bugs or have ideas for improvement, feel free to create tickets as well.

Enjoy shortening! Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 14:40, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Duplicates and identifying pages with existing short urls[edit]

I am hazarding a guess that we are going to start seeing multiple shorturls pointing to the same target page. Is it possible to list on the target page any short urls that exist for a page, so people can just copy and paste what exists?  — billinghurst sDrewth 22:50, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: so far I've seen that if multiple people make the same link, you get the same result already. This is based on the exact url matching. — xaosflux Talk 00:08, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
good-o, it checks for existence prior to recreating, and can it be displayed? Or is that taking place somewhere else? If it is being pushed to and stored on WD, then it would be available. Noting of course that it would need to be a direct correlation to each interwiki on WD, so would be busy.  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:27, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
Hello,
Indeed, if the link has already been shortened by someone else before, the proposed shortlink is the same. The system is checking in the database if the link already exists.
Just to be clear, this feature is not Wikidata-based and the content is not stored in Wikidata. It's a different database that is not accessible directly by users, for security reasons. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 10:16, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Logs for url deletion/restore[edit]

Screenshot as is

Does the SW log the deletion and restore in the manage URL special page? If not, we should have it for monitoring each other. It can be in suppression log, or other private logs for Stewards. It also should have a 'reason' field. — regards, Revi 10:54, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

@-revi: I've created request phab:T221073 for this. — xaosflux Talk 11:16, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Removal guidelines / policy?[edit]

This went live without much discussion about practical maintenance. To that end I think there are a few primary situations where removals may be needed:

  1. Pursuant to the existing Oversight_policy#Use
  2. "Content" issues
  3. "Technical" issues

For issues related to #1 above, our "local oversighters" should be able to handle such requests (will need to have access added) - and requests can be kept private with the existing OS mailing list process. For #2/#3 - I don't see why other links shouldn't be able to be removed from public access provided there is some sort of support found. Given the cross-wiki nature I think these should have a public request/discussion and still be processed by stewards. Any thoughts? (@Lea Lacroix (WMDE): - any special technical comments?) — xaosflux Talk 17:03, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't think that you need to get over-fussed about the policy changes to deletion policy. We have the existing criteria, and I don't see that our criteria have changed. With regard to whom can undertake the people who can do it, this can be managed by the stewards where it currently resides, and they can expand it based on what they are seeing and the operational needs. This occurred with the global abuse filters, and the situation isn't much different. I have no issue with oversighters being given the access, and we already have oversighters, and that covers the requisites of their role. With the short urls being at meta, it falls under Meta: policy as set by the community.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:13, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
If there are changes to be made, then they do not belong on this page, they belong on global and local existing policies.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:17, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
AFAIK there is no policy approved by the community for use of the manage features, so in the absense of community-approved policy, (for now) it is up to steward to decide what can /cannot be deleted. — regards, Revi 11:11, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
@-revi: Which "manage" features? What is missing at meta:deletion policy? If there is no target page, it is a redirect without target. What more do you want or need?  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:07, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
I don't think deletion policy magically / automatically applies to this new sphere. We cannot know which redirects to which until we actually visits the page, so it is not a conventional wiki pages. — regards, Revi 01:43, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
I know that I can be overtly simple, but to me it is just a redirect, yes extravagant in its nature, but not in its function. Shorturl will have a legitimate target, or it will not. If it doesn't have a target, it is deleted; if it does, then we would leave it.  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:35, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: "legitimate target"? So here is a SURL to a deleted page: w.wiki/32j compared to a non-issued SURL (presume this is what a deleted SURL will do as well) w.wiki/zzkjshdf. The first is still a "legitimate target" because we can't presume what the reason for it's creation was. For example, w.wiki/32m goes to current redlink testwiki:PleaseMakeThatNewArticleHere - perhaps I made the SURL to pass on to someone to create a new page. — xaosflux Talk 13:36, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
What is it that you are wanting? Describe the scenarios that you feel that the oversighters or the deletion policy do not cover, for when you receive a request at SRM? Are you wanting an inclusion list, or an exclusion list? Are you looking for guidance? ... restriction? ... protection?  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:35, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: I wasn't really following what you were saying about "..[short urls] will have a legitimate target, or it will not. If it doesn't have a target, it is deleted..". My understanding of this system so far is that the links are designed to be left forever, unless there is a special reason to deactivate them. It sounded like you think they should be deactivated if the target page does not exist, but in my example I think there is a use case for linking to non-existing pages? — xaosflux Talk 11:04, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Two ways to look at this. 1) This is talking about taking nominations for deletion, not you clicking them randomly and hunting them down, so if they are nominated and someone complains they can be considered surplus requirements. 2) You will never know when something has a shortcut generated with a non-existent target, so you are either accepting broad latitude or you are not—it is binary. (Can you even tell who generated a link?) Note that I said "legitimate" target, not existing target, and that has a broad scope, and knowing our community it will have a meaning that will have elements of change over time.  — billinghurst sDrewth 11:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm fine with using the request for deletion process for anything that gets requested. We can't currently tell who creates these (I've requested logging below). — xaosflux Talk 11:28, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

How to find already created short URL's?[edit]

Is there somewhere a list of them because I can't find? Stryn (talk) 07:26, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Seems like this is another something that should be logged. — xaosflux Talk 13:39, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
@Xaosflux and Stryn: I'm only aware of the partial one I made, for all of the Wikimedia home pages plus some reserved ones for Incubator and such. I don't think there's a public log in the interface, but it should be possible to make a complete one using curl/wget and regex. Jc86035 (talk) 18:33, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
(Technical details: There is a rate limit which allows creating a maximum of 10 short links per 120 or so seconds. A command such as wget --post-data="url=https://www.wikimedia.org/" "https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UrlShortener" is sufficient for creating a short link. The actual list was created by downloading all of the created redirects with wget --max-redirect=0 and converting all of the URLs in the logs into a JSON table with some regex.) Jc86035 (talk) 18:39, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Created request phab:T221072 that there should be some logging on creation. — xaosflux Talk 11:14, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Toolserver[edit]

How about allowing the shortening of Toolserver URLs (i.e. anything under https://tools.wmflabs.org/)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:17, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Adding it is a config change but I don't have the authority to decide, this should goes to security and core platform team. Amir (talk) 14:56, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
This would be quite useful. Many of these tools have crazy long URLs (try tools.wmflabs.org/sql-optimizer for example). I think we should allow any URL under wmflabs.org, such as xtools.wmflabs.org, petscan.wmflabs.org, etc. MusikAnimal talk 15:06, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Similarly: https://tools.wmflabs.org/glamtools/glamorgan.html?&category=Images_donated_by_Staffordshire_Fire_and_Rescue_Service&depth=12&month=last -- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:52, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
No, it's not going to happen. Services on Toolforge are not vetted, and some do suffer from XSS and other security issues that it's not going to be added. Legoktm (talk) 02:35, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Chapter website[edit]

At that moment, does it also accept links from chapter websites which are not hosted on WMF server (Ex. wikimedia.org.bd)? If not, do you have plans to add them in future?~ Nahid Talk 13:41, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

This is a decision for security and core platform team. Amir (talk) 14:58, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
A (less-optimal) alternative would be to use soft redirects. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:14, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
No, the website needs to be on a Wikimedia hosted and controlled domain. Legoktm (talk) 02:35, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Portlet/script available for sidebar?[edit]

Has someone designed a script to be put into the sidebar so that one can easily make a short url from the page on which they are sited?  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:28, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

This feature is currently disabled by default, it still needs some design and performance work to make it reasonable/workable. Legoktm (talk) 02:36, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Rife for abuse[edit]

I am a little surprised that we have generated a new feature that is so rife to be utilised for abuse/vandalism. http://w.wiki/34X  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:37, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

How did you find http://w.wiki/34X ? Is there somewhere a log of created url:s or you just randomly type 34X there? It so difficult to find any instructions... Stryn (talk) 07:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Find it? I made it. We have a gaping hole, we need to set the whole domain string, not just the base stem.  — billinghurst sDrewth 07:59, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
@Stryn and Billinghurst: No, there's no official log. I've made a complete list, but I had to omit 72 of the URLs because there is a length limit of 400 characters for each text string in Commons data tables. Jc86035 (talk) 11:51, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
What exactly is the problem here? People can stuff arbitrary stuff in the subdomain or the path part or the query string. Legoktm (talk) 02:38, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
I was predominantly meaning the domain component, though that it is all so readily abusable is concerning.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:02, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

This page translation[edit]

Hello, Lea Lacroix. Please do not use {{collapse top}}. It makes the text unreadable on rtl wikis. Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 12:40, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@IKhitron: Can you please suggest an alternative approach? Seen anything else successfully used that assists Lea in what she is looking to do, that also supports the views that you are wishing to see?  — billinghurst sDrewth 22:53, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
@IKhitron: Does this fix the problem? PiRSquared17 (talk) 23:08, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
It does indeed. Thanks a lot you all. IKhitron (talk) 18:38, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Resolved.

Special:UserLogout[edit]

It looks like Special:UserLogout is a valid link to shorten. Are you fine with users being able to generate short links that will log others out? William Graham (talk) 15:29, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

@William Graham: I do not think it is okay, and would suggest that adding a ticket to phabricator: requesting its exclusion.  — billinghurst sDrewth 04:30, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
The logout issue is actually a security issue than a problem with Url shortener. See phab:T25227. It's finally moving forward and log out will soon require token Amir (talk) 11:07, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Yes, though we don't really need to have a shortcut to it.  — billinghurst sDrewth 13:06, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Starting from tomorrow, Special:UserLogout would require token, so I think this is not an issue anymore. Amir (talk) 18:12, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:35, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

A user script[edit]

see zh:User:Shizhao/shorturl.js--Shizhao (talk) 09:19, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Dump format[edit]

Could the data dumps available at https://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/shorturls/ follow the specifications of the BEACON format, i.e. specifying the PREFIX in the header as well as using two vertical bars after non HTTP/HTTPS source identifiers? See https://gbv.github.io/beaconspec/beacon.html. There are a few tools that build upon the format, e.g. https://github.com/thunken/beacon (full disclosure, I maintain that parser). — LucBoruta (talk) 15:14, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The dump format is the same as what URLTeam/ArchiveTeam use for straightforward ingestion into their tooling. The BEACON draft you linked to has been expired for over a year - is it still being pursued as a standard? Legoktm (talk) 17:00, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Domains for wiki codes[edit]

Hey User:Lea Lacroix (WMDE), User:Pigsonthewing and User:Jc86035 . Given that it has been discussed a lot before I want to mention a solution for issue of wiki domains. Apparently WMF owns .wiki gTLD which means you can have things like de.wiki which is shorter than w.wiki/de. I got the idea from phab:T88873#1691739 (and things like phab:T167060).I don't know how feasible it is but I think it's a way better venue for you to try instead of using Wikimedia URL shortener. Amir (talk) 18:21, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

@Ladsgroup: Thank you. So how are those created? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:49, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't know, I recommand talking to the people who made those comments. Amir (talk) 13:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
We're not considering other top level domains at this time due to the overhead with managing TLS certificates. Also the inevitable argument of which English project should get en.wiki, etc. Legoktm (talk) 11:54, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

How stable are the Shortener links likely to be?[edit]

How stable are the Shortener links likely to be? --Molgreen 17:56, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

They are pretty stable. Once made, they won't change. Only in certain cases like private information breach, it will be deleted by stewards. Amir (talk) 18:07, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Could a field be provided in the description (of commons files)?[edit]

Could a field be provided in the description (of commons files)?

See for example: Short URL: https://w.wiki/4AT

--Molgreen 17:58, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

It really depends on what commonswiki community decide, I don't think this place is the right place to discuss it. Amir (talk) 18:08, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
re: "the right place to discuss it" - please note user came here after being told on Phabricator that is also not the right place to discuss it. Mutante (talk) 22:05, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Are you asking if the text description on commons may include some additional text? That doesn't sound like it requires any software changes, and it doesn't require permission from anyone outside of commons either. — xaosflux Talk 13:53, 20 June 2019 (UTC)