User:פֿינצטערניש/Senselessly censored information, sources and discussion on Dareen Tatour from the English Wikipedia

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Onceinawhile:, here are more sources that may be helpful regarding Dareen Tatour. Icewhiz:, since you're editing Wikipedia in good faith, you might also find all of this helpful in making a better and more accurate article.

You will see below that she is internationally known as a poet, in no small part thanks to her arrest, but she is internationally published (Google her poetry also), and many people become notable writers due to things unrelated to their work. Also just for clarification, I was not implying she was a member of PEN. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 12:32, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Indeed. A classic WP:BLP1E in which notability is limited to a single event; a CRIME.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:40, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
No, E.M.Gregory, you utterly misunderstand the argument and situation. It is possible to become famous as a poet after being charged with a crime, and this is her situation. Please read the below evidence. She has become a notable poet because of the widespread understanding, in Israel and elsewhere, that she was arrested for her poetry. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 12:54, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
This is an example of the Streisand effect. She wouldn't have become notable as a poet had her speech not been suppressed, but she is now notable as a poet, as the below pieces of evidence establish פֿינצטערניש (talk) 12:56, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Another example of someone who became notable because of something unrelated to his work is Jordan Peterson. He had an article prior to becoming notable, written by a student at the University of Toronto, but I highly doubt that the article would have survived a notability challenge before he was in the news for cashing in on public hatred of transgender people with intellectually dishonest remarks about an anti-discrimination bill. And yet he is famous now as a guru and father figure for young men. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:03, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Also, your claim that she is notable for a crime is POV. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 12:54, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Except, of course, that she was convicted. And that it was her arrest for incitement to violence that sparked the limited interest in her that exists.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Rabbi Akiva was also convicted; does that make him a criminal? And you are again confusing your opinion with the neutral view of the subject, which is that she is, right now, famous as a poet, not as a criminal. In fact, were she only a criminal, she would have no article. Hundreds of Palestinians the same year were arrested for social media posts. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:11, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Conviction obviously does not establish a person as a criminal, nor as someone who committed the deed in question. See this list of exonerated death row inmates. The counterexamples are so obvious that I don't even understand how you could make your argument with a straight face. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:13, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Even the freest democracies in the world, even the ideal perfectly just democracy, has an appeals process and does not believe itself to be capable of perfectly establishing guilt. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Translation from the Hebrew Wikipedia about the reactions to her arrest, well-cited there[edit]

In june 2016 in Tel Aviv there was a protest against the imprisonment of Tatour at which nearly 20 poets, writers and translators read. (Source: ) Newspaper articles and advertisements called for her release. ( ) ( ) The writer Sami Michael wrote of her arrest that it was "an expression of the helplessness and cultural failure of a society that is not capable of defending itself but is capable of silencing." ( ) The poet Lilach Weber wrote a poem in her honor. ( )

In october 2016, one year after her arrest, a petition for her release was signed by more than 180 poets, writers and intellectuals, including four winners of the Israel Prize: A.B. Yehoshua, Tuvia Rivner, Avishai Margalit and Shimon Sandbank. The statement read: "This situation, where the poet was arrested and tried for writing a poem, contradicts the principles of democracy, free expression and artistic creativity... the behavior towards Tatour reflects a policy of severe discrimination related to the free expression of the citizens of Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. The attempt to put political protest in a criminal light is harmful to the possibility of sincere dialogue and aims to block any channel of dialog between Jews and Arabs in the country." ( ) The protests and petition were led by the poet and social activist Tal Nitzan. ( )

Citation needed and a non-primary citation also needed[edit]

In september 2016 PEN International wrote a statement that the organization had become convinced that Tatour was targeted for her poetry and her political activism and called for her immediate release and for all charges against her to be dropped. ( ) The organization dedicated "International Translation Day" to her and translated the poem "A poet behind bars" into 13 languages, with over 300 people calling for her release with the slogan "Poetry is not a crime", among them Noam Chomsky, Alice Walker, Claudia Rankine, Dave Eggers, Jacqueline Woodson and ten Pulitzer Prize winners, including Naomi Klein and Kathryn Schulz. ( Citation needed )

Translation from the Hebrew Wikipedia about her life (not cited but it may be possible to find citations)[edit]

Dareen Tatour was born to Tawfiq, a carpenter, and Ikhlas Tatour, a homemaker, in Reina. She studied software engineering, communications and film.

Tatour photographs and combines her poems with photographs. She presented her works in an exhibition in Nazareth. She owned a shoe store.

Tatour is single and has four siblings.

Translation from the Hebrew Wikipedia about her poetry (not cited but it may be possible to find citations)[edit]

Tatour's poetry is mainly concerned with breaking the conspiracy of silence around the suffering of Palestinian women. In 2010 she published a book of poetry called "The Last Invasion". In 2017, an anthology of poetry in English, A Blade of Grass: New Palestinian Poetry was published, containing several translated poems by Tatour.

Tatour read her poems in a number of public events, including an International Women's Day event in Nazareth and an event in memory of the Kafr Qasem massacre.


Based on my limited understanding of the Hebrew, it isn't really clear whether she self-published her 2010 book of poetry or a book of her poetry was published by someone else. This is worth investigating when looking for citations to back this.

Regardless, her 2017 appearance in A Blade of Grass: New Palestinian Poetry means she is definitely not self-published. Arab News has covered this publication. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:12, 6 August 2018 (UTC) פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:13, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Clearly then she isn't a "self-published poet," which the Hebrew Wikipedia notably also does not try to claim. She may or may not have been self-published at the time of her arrest. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:21, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Interesting though that the verifiably false word "self-published" appears twice in the lead of the article about her in the English Wikipedia, uncited both times and utterly unnecessary the second time. The claim that she had only ever published on Facebook and Youtube is also verifiably false. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:30, 6 August 2018 (UTC) This isn't merely intellectual dishonesty which would involve omission of facts, but a false statement about a living person. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:33, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Interviews with Tatour[edit]

Coverage of PEN International's condemnation of Israel[edit]

  • Al Jazeera: "International writers group PEN defended Tatour in a statement following her conviction in May. 'Dareen Tatour has been convicted for doing what writers do every day - we use our words to peacefully challenge injustice,' it said."
  • Daily Mail: "International writers group Pen has defended Tatour, saying she 'has been convicted for doing what writers do every day - we use our words to peacefully challenge injustice.'"
  • BBC: "PEN International, an association of writers, condemned the verdict. 'Dareen Tatour has been convicted for doing what writers do every day - we use our words to peacefully challenge injustice,' said the group's president, Jennifer Clement. 'PEN will continue to call for justice in this case.'"
  • Hyperallergic: "PEN International, an organization whose focus lies in supporting artists who have been targeted by their governments for political work, provides additional resources for those interested in supporting Tatour’s cause through letter-writing, volunteer translation, and other acts of solidarity."
  • The New Arab: "International writers group Pen has defended Tatour, saying she 'has been convicted for doing what writers do every day - we use our words to peacefully challenge injustice.'"
  • Palestine Chronicle: article is entirely about PEN's opposition to Tatour's conviction

Notability as a poet and other concerns about trial[edit]

A Blade of Grass[edit]

As stated above, her 2017 appearance in A Blade of Grass: New Palestinian Poetry means she is definitely not self-published. Arab News has covered this publication and her inclusion in it.

The press that published it appears to be a legitimate press; it is not a CreateSpace book, for example.

Her status as a "new Palestinian poet," which she shares with a number of other poets for whom I also found stories mentioning it, seems to establish notability as a poet. Here are stories about other artists in the anthology, which mention the anthology:

From the lit journal "intranslation" - also contains information worth verifying about her trial[edit]

"She faces an ongoing trial that has seen prosecutor Alina Hardak present a translation of the poem made by a police officer with no experience in translation or literature. The defense invited a professional translator to testify, whom the prosecution denounced as biased, and called literary professors to the stand to note that Hebrew-language poets were not prosecuted for much harsher words even under Tsarist Russia or during the British occupation of Palestine. The prosecution has also tried to deny that Tatour is a poet. The prosecution relies on a distorted interpretation of the Arabic word shahid (“martyr”) as “terrorist,” generally refusing to translate the word in the proceedings." פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:16, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

If this is true then it's important to find citations for all of this and put it in the article. Especially about the defense inviting a professional translator, and about the police officer's translation being considered more trustworthy than that of a professional. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:26, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
The testimony of the literary professors regarding Hebrew-language poets in Tsarist Russia and the British Mandate is also very important. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Another lit journal,, with a competent translation of the poem she was imprisoned for[edit]

Features a competent translation of "Resist them, my people, resist them."

Poetry Foundation covering her work[edit]

New Poems by Dareen Tatour at Nomadics