Wikimedia Forum/Archives/2009-04

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Warning! Please do not post any new comments on this page. This is a discussion archive first created in April 2009, although the comments contained were likely posted before and after this date. See current discussion or the archives index.

How can I copy an infobox template properly? Is something missing or not updated?[edit]

Hello! I have a problem in copying some kind of templates into Turkmen wikipedia. I usually copy any template with its transcluded templates and it works. Then I localize it. However when I copied an infobox template with its transcluded templates everything was OK, but it appears on the left side and with no border lines. I guess I missed something of which I have no idea at all.

Last time I copied infobox template:Infobox Monarch from English wiki to http://tk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_Monarch as it is. When I copied this template used in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osman_I to http://tk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osman_I with all the transcluded templates, everything was OK. But it just appeared at the left side of the page (and without a border line). (Would you please copy that ready infobox in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osman_I to http://tk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osman_I and see what happens) Something is wrong or missing about which I have no idea. May be You can help me or direct me to someone or somewhere to ask for help. It would be much appreciated. If you can help me I will localize it as soon as possible and many more other necessary templates. Kind regards--Hanberke 12:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you need to add some code to your tk:user:hanberke/monobook.css (if that is for yourself) or tk:mediawiki:common.css (if that is for everyone). Hillgentleman 18:02, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot but I didn't get your answer. Would you please explain it? what is some code?! --Hanberke 04:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I was referring to the section under /* Infobox template style */. But I don't see any problem with the infobox_monarch - it looks just like one on en: and it is sitting on the right hand side. Hillgentleman 11:20, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia Quality[edit]

I've made a proposal at Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikimedia Quality to close the Quality Wiki, comments are welcome. MBisanz talk 04:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Simple wiki attribution of enwiki[edit]

I was asked to try to spot copyvios on simple: where somoene copied and pasted from enwiki. The question I'm asking is what is the best method of attributing enwikipedia from simple when an article's text is taken. I'm told that Special:Import only works for articles with less then 500 revisions... so what would be the proper way for simple to attribute enwiki? Currently they are using edit summaries or the talk page to attribute the article to enwiki. This is dissimilar to what enwiki does with content taken from say w:Catholic Encyclopedia etc which is to put a template at the bottom of the article saying where they incorporated the text.

So the question is what is the proper way to attribute across wikis? I have a feeling this is something that has already been addressed somewhere but I'm not finding it. —— nixeagle 23:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

To be clear this question is only related to when someone copies and pastes an enwiki article into simple. How do they properly attribute the enwiki version. —— nixeagle 23:04, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
What I do to generally give attribution is that if I were to make an article from the English Wikipedia on the Simple English Wikipedia called Flame Nebula, I would put Start stub based on en:Flame Nebula in the edit summary. That is how I generally attribute across wikis. Hope this helps :). Cheers, Razorflame 23:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I don't see any difference between this and the usual (encouraged) translation work across projects. We usually give simple attributions in the page history; if we want to be strict, we would provide the list of the last 5 major authors (which is observed in ja:, I think). Hypothetically, there may be copyright problems when the original article happened to be deleted. V:user:JWSchmidt has some thoughts on it in one of his wikiversity blogs. Hillgentleman 18:27, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Whenever I take anything from en.wiki to another wiki, I simply write "taken from permlink", pasting the permlink of the revision I harvested in the edit summary upon creation. That should allow easy backtracking for attribution. –xeno (talk) 06:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

NYT suggestion[edit]

After reading the NYT's piece on WP, I had a thought about a partnership that might create some interesting results. The NYT's website has that Reference Search feature where you can click on a word and be shown a brief definition of it from Answers.com. It might be worth seeing if the NYTs would integrate WP into that search so that people clicking on Hillary Clinton would be taken to our Hillary Clinton article or clicking Importance would go to our importance piece. Thoughts? MBisanz talk 06:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, that would be interesting. They would be far more likely to do this if they could link directly to a flagged rev, which is effectively what Answers provides. -- sj | help translate |+ 21:22, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

please help!!!!!!!!!![edit]

Hi! when i go to a particular page for information i dont see an option to discuss or talk. moreover, i am a lot confused with a lot of information here and there. I was not able to reach Wikipedia Help..I had a query and did not find a place to write to you. I dont know if i am writing to you from the correct space. My topmost doubt is what are these "external links". How do they appear on the information's pages? for example..... if i browse info on paper, there are external links directing to private organisations. how do the external links happen to appear in that page of "paper"? I have a website that caters to industries and corporate organizations about information regarding manufacturers and suppliers of various products. external links such as TAPPI, internationalpaper.com & ecopaper.com are few of the links visible in the "external links" section under the article "paper".

if i want to exhibit an external link of my website where people around can get more information related to the topic what I need to do? after lookin at the external links I am confused about the Wikipedia policies. Please take this matter into keen consideration and reply to "augustgrace" so that I can avoid breach of policies here unknowingly Thak You, Augustgrace.

A Case Study - The meatpuppeting attack on LMO wikipedia - Origin (source) of the meatpuppets[edit]

About one year ago, in the days 2-4-5-6 december 2007, a lot of people accessed for the first time the LMO wiki, immediately or after few minutes voted 5 new administrators [1] and then disappeared. What was the origin of the voters?

It's about a couple of month that I'm analyzing that meatpuppeting attack case. I know that the word "meatpuppet" should be used with great care ([2]), so the word "meatpuppet" will be used according the main definition given in the page ([3]):

Editors of the online encyclopedia Wikipedia use "meat puppet" to deprecate contributions from a new community member if the new member was (allegedly) recruited by an existing member only to back up the recruiting member's position.

I also know that personal attacks must be avoided ([4]). In this analysis there is some nickname, but only because those nicknames were involved in the meatpuppeting attack, as demonstrated by the logs.

Analysis of the Fabexplosive's election[edit]

As an example, here will be analyzed the election of one of the five admins "elected" during the meatpuppeting attack. His name is Fabexplosive: he was not elected by the LMO community, but by meatpuppets (as definition) come from away.

The summary of the Fabexplosive's election to admin is as follow:

  • he has been candidate to admin after only 3 edits [5] ;
  • on 2/4/5 dec 2007 the meatpuppets (as definition) voted him;
  • on 9 dec 2007 he had the admin rights, after about only 20 edits.

But let we analyze the votes of 17 people on the total of 19 (89% of the votes):

  1. Dracoroboter - [6] - his vote is his 15th edit;
  2. Xaura - [7] - first edit on 20:01, 2 dec 2007, voted after 1 minute;
  3. Ilario - [8] - first edit on 20:01, 2 dec 2007, voted after 1 minute and then disappeared;
  4. Marcok - [9] - first edit on 20:06, 2 dec 2007, voted after 4 minutes and then disappeared;
  5. Paginazero - [10] - his vote is his 4th edit and then disappeared
  6. Veneziano - [11] - first edit on 20:53, 2 dec 2007, voted after 23 minutes and then disappeared;
  7. Tanarus - [12] - his vote is his 3rd edit;
  8. Balabiot - [13] - first edit on 10:06, 4 dec 2007, voted after 5 minutes;
  9. bramfab(=Barbapedana) - [14] - first edit on 08:48, 3 dec 2007, voted after 1 day and 8 edits;
  10. .snoopy. - [15] - his vote is his 5th edit;
  11. Nemo - [16] - first edit on 17:14, 4 dec 2007, voted after 38 minutes;
  12. Olando - [17] - first edit on 13:40, 5 dec 2007, voted immediately (WORLD RECORD) and then disappeared;
  13. Civvi - [18] - first edit on 10:58, 5 dec 2007, voted after some our and then disappeared;
  14. Lusum - [19] - first edit on 20:34, 5 dec 2007, voted after 1 minute and then disappeared;
  15. Ripe - [20] - first edit on 20:31, 5 dec 2007, voted after 1 minute and then disappeared;
  16. Loroli - [21] - first edit on 20:32, 6 dec 2007, voted after 2 minutes and then disappeared;
  17. giacumìn - [22] - first edit on 15:25, 3 dec 2007, voted after 6 days and 19 edits.

According to the cited definition, the voters of Fabexplosive (and of the other 4 admins) should be considered meatpuppets.

Origin (source) of the meatpuppets[edit]

The 5 admins "elected" in that way were: Fabexplosive, Snowdog, Barbapedana, DracoRoboter and Remulazz: according to the cited definition, they should be considered (allegedly) recruiters (=meatpuppeters). The detailed analysis of the attack is above [23]. But what was the origin of the meatpuppets (as definition) and of the meatpuppeters (as definition) ?

It's difficult to find were the meatpuppeting attack was organized, but perhaps the cultural environment origin (source) of the meatpuppeting attack can be found. Let we analyze the following evidences:

  1. the meatpuppets (as definition) DracoRoboter (as Draco), Xaura, Ilario, Marcok, Paginazero, Nemo, Fabexplosive, kiado and M7 (as M/) took part to the organization of the 2008 Annual Meeting of the Italian Wikimedia Association (WMI), as we can see [24]. In the page there are also Nick1915, but see later;
  2. the meatpuppet (as definition) Nemo (first edit on LMO 17:14, 4 dic 2007, voted after 38 minutes for 3 admins [25]) is one of the 5 people in the Board of the Italian Wikimedia Association, as we can see [26];
  3. a steward (Paginazero) was heavly involved in the attack (maybe naivly): he voted for 3 admins ([27]: only 4 edits in total and then disappeared. Here we can see Paginazero receiving a premium for the Italian Wikimedia Association [28];
  4. another steward (Nick1915) backed up metpuppets and meatpuppeters for a longtime, till in the RFC [29] was explicitly requested to stop to backup the attackers and to follow better the Steward_policies, where it says "Stewards should always be neutral";
  5. the meatpuppet (as definition) Remulazz is an active member of the Italian Wikimedia Association, as we can see [30];
  6. the (allegedly) recruiter Snowdog has been vice president of the Italian Wikimedia Association [31].

And so on ... but it could be enough for now.

Yattagat 21:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

All I know is that .snoopy is a well-standing admin here. I might return to comment more later. Fabexplosive himself is also a well-known global user. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 13:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately the main definition of "meatpuppet" is clear: "Editors of the online encyclopedia Wikipedia use "meat puppet" to deprecate contributions from a new community member if the new member was (allegedly) recruited by an existing member only to back up the recruiting member's position". And, in the same way, the logs are clear. Yattagat 21:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
This seems to be a Wikimedia horror story.--Kozuch 20:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't see how.  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Mike.lifeguard, erroneously you (on 20-dec, 21:07) destroyed the comment "A Case Study - The meatpuppeting attack on the LMO wikipedia - Corrective actions requested", writing "rm dupe section". Instead the informations and the analysis were not duplicated. May I restore the section? or almost the sections "Analisys of Dracoroboter's election" and "Analisys of Remulazz's election" ? Thank you, Yattagat 21:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


Four day ago, I requested the permission to restore the informations and the analysis that Mike.lifeguard erroneously destroyed, writing: rm dupe section, while the informations were not duplicated. Having received no answer, I suppose that NULLA OSTA to restore. So, the analysis of the election of DracoRoboter and Remulazz will be restored. Yattagat 14:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Analisys of Dracoroboter's election[edit]

DracoRoboter was not elected by te community, but by people that came from away. Let we analyze the election of DracoRoboter, as we can see here: [32]. The votes of 18 people on the total of 20 (90% of the votes) were as follow:

  1. Fabexplosive - [33] - his vote is his 6th edit
  2. Xaura - [34] - first edit on 20:01, 2 dic 2007, voted immediately, WORLD RECORD
  3. Ilario - [35] - first edit on 20:01, 2 dic 2007, voted after 1 minutes and then disappeared
  4. Marcok - [36] - first edit on 20:06, 2 dic 2007, voted after 4 minutes and then disappeared
  5. Paginazero - [37] - his vote is his 4th edit and then disappeared
  6. Veneziano - [38] - first edit on 20:53, 2 dic 2007, voted after 23 minutes and then disappeared
  7. Tanarus - [39] - his vote is his 3rd edit
  8. Balabiot - [40] - first edit on 10:06, 4 dic 2007, voted after 5 minutes
  9. bramfab(=Barbapedana) - [41] - first edit on 08:48, 3 dic 2007, voted after 1 day, 7 hours and 52 minutes
  10. .snoopy. - [42] - his vote is his 5th edit and then disappeared
  11. Nemo - [43] - first edit on 17:14, 4 dic 2007, voted after 38 minutes
  12. Olando - [44] - first edit on 13:40, 5 dic 2007, voted immediately, WORLD RECORD and then disappeared
  13. giacumìn - [45] - his vote is his 7th edit
  14. Civvi - [46] - first edit on 10:58, 5 dic 2007, voted after 03:38 and then disappeared
  15. Lusum - [47] - first edit on 20:34, 5 dic 2007, voted after 1 minute and then disappeared
  16. Kiado - [48] - first edit on 17:13, 5 dic 2007, voted after 04:03
  17. Ripe - [49] - first edit on 20:31, 6 dic 2007, voted immediately and then disappeared
  18. Loroli - [50] - first edit on 20:32, 6 dic 2007, voted after 1 minute and then disappeared

Some other little news[edit]

Dracoroboter resigned and leaved the adminship in the wiki-IT yet [51]. The recruiter (= meatpuppeter) and recruited (= meatpuppet) Dracoroboter, is also an active member of italian Wikimedia Association [52]. -- Yattagat 22:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Analisys of Remulazz's election[edit]

Remulazz was not elected by te community, but by people that came from away. Let we analyze the election of Remulazz, as we can see here: [53]. The votes of 16 people on the total of 17 (94% of the votes) were as follow:

  1. Dracoroboter - [54] - his vote for Snowdog were his 5th edit; after 2 day he voted for Remulazz
  2. Tanarus - [55] - his vote is his 13th edit
  3. Fabexplosive - [56] - his vote is his 12th edit
  4. bramfab(=Barbapedana) - [57] - first edit on 08:48, 3 dic 2007, voted after 1 day, 7 hours and 52 minutes
  5. .snoopy. - [58] - his vote is his 7th edit and then disappeared
  6. Balabiot - [59] - first edit on 10:06, 4 dic 2007, voted after 5 minutes for Snowdog, voted after 7 hours for Remulazz
  7. Nemo - [60] - first edit on 17:14, 4 dic 2007, voted after 38 minutes
  8. Xaura - [61] - first edit on 20:01, 2 dic 2007, voted immediately for Snowdog, voted after 2 days for Remulazz
  9. Olando - [62] - first edit on 13:40, 5 dic 2007, voted immediately, WORLD RECORD and then disappeared
  10. giacumìn - [63] - his vote is his 9th edit
  11. Lusum - [64] - first edit on 20:34, 5 dic 2007, voted after 2 minute and then disappeared
  12. Civvi - [65] - first edit on 10:58, 5 dic 2007, voted after 1 day and then disappeared
  13. Kiado - [66] - first edit on 17:13, 5 dic 2007, voted after 1 day
  14. Loroli - [67] - first edit on 20:32, 6 dic 2007, voted after 6 minutes and then disapeared
  15. Ripe - [68] - first edit on 20:31, 6 dic 2007, voted after 18 minutes and then disapeared
  16. Veneziano - [69] - first edit on 20:53, 2 dic 2007, voted after 23 minutes for Snowdog, voted 5 days after for Remulazz and then disappeared

Corrective action required[edit]

The admins of the LMO wikipedia, Fabexplosive, Snowdog and Barbapedana were elected (as detailed above) by users that suddenly accessed the LMO wikipedia, immediately or after few minutes voted and then disappeared. If the main definition of "meatpuppet" (Editors of the online encyclopedia Wikipedia use "meat puppet" to deprecate contributions from a new community member if the new member was (allegedly) recruited by an existing member only to back up the recruiting member's position) will not be changed, the recruited users should be considered meatpuppets and the recruiters should be considered meatpuppeters.

The admins elected in the way detailed, don't have the trust of the LMO community, they only had the vote of the meatpuppets. As corrective action, the following are proposed:

  1. the admins Fabexplosive, Snowolf and Barbapedana should resign and leave the LMO adminship;
  2. all the votes of meatpuppets and meatpuppeters, involved in the meatpuppeting attack, should be discarded during the polls on the LMO wikipedia (until meatpuppets and meatpuppeters will demonstrate, with their contributions, to be good wikipedians).

Yattagat 14:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Some little news[edit]

On friday 16 jan 2009, the admin Fabexplosive resigned and leaved the adminship in the LMO wiki.

Users of the LMO wiki are waiting for the resignation of Snowdog (an ex steward) and of Barbapedana (alias Bramfab), the other two admins "elected" during the meatpuppeting attack of december 2007.

Yattagat 14:16, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Analisys of the Snowdog's election[edit]

The LMO users are asking the resignation of the admins "elected" during the meatppeting attack of december 2007 : "Ti chiedo di dire a tutti i tuoi soci di scegliere o di mettersi a contribuire e amministrare o di dimettersi. Grazie" [70].

The admin Snowdog, as ex steward and ex vice President of the Italian Wikimedia Association, should be the first to resign.

The admin Snowdog was not elected by te community, but by people that came from away. Let we analyze the election of Snowdog, as we can see there: [71]. The votes of 20 people on the total of 23 (87% of the votes) were as follow:

  1. Dracoroboter - [72] - his vote is his 5th edit
  2. Fabexplosive - [73] - his vote is his 5th edit
  3. Xaura - [74] - first edit on 20:01, 2 dic 2007, voted immediately, WORLD RECORD
  4. Ilario - [75] - first edit on 20:01, 2 dic 2007, voted immediately and then disappeared
  5. Marcok - [76] - first edit on 20:06, 2 dic 2007, voted after 4 minutes and then disappeared
  6. Paginazero - [77] - his vote is his 4th edit and then disappeared
  7. Veneziano - [78] - first edit on 20:53, 2 dic 2007, voted after 22 minutes after and then disappeared
  8. Tanarus - [79] - his vote is his 4th edit
  9. Balabiot - [80] - first edit on 10:06, 4 dic 2007, voted after 5 minutes
  10. bramfab(=Barbapedana) - [[81]] - first edit on 08:48, 3 dic 2007, voted after 1 day, 7 hours and 52 minutes
  11. .snoopy. - [82] - his vote is his 4th edit and then disappeared
  12. Nemo - [83] - first edit on 17:14, 4 dic 2007, voted after 38 minutes
  13. M7 - [84] - his vote is his 3rd edit and then disappeared
  14. Olando - [85] - first edit on 13:40, 5 dic 2007, voted immediately, WORLD RECORD and then disappeared
  15. giacumìn - [86] - his vote is his 6th edit
  16. Civvi - [87] - first edit on 10:58, 5 dic 2007, voted after 03:36
  17. Lusum - [88] - first edit on 20:34, 5 dic 2007, voted immediately and then disappeared
  18. Kiado - [89] - first edit on 17:13, 5 dic 2007, voted after 04:02
  19. Ripe - [90] - first edit on 20:31, 6 dic 2007, voted immediately and then disappeared
  20. Loroli - [91] - first edit on 20:32, 6 dic 2007, voted immediately and then disappeared

Yattagat 18:06, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

That's only a dialectal wiki. it.wiki is at http://it.wikipedia.org 93.47.44.238 16:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Who was involved in the meatpuppeting attack?[edit]

On 22 march 2009, there was a meeting of Italian Wikimedia Association [92].

A lot of recruiters and recruited people involved in the meatpuppeting attack partecipated to this meeting:

The other two recruiters, Snowdog (an ex steward!) and Bramfab (alias Barbapedana), "elected" during the meatpuppeting attack of december 2007, should resign and leave the adminship as corrective action.

--Yattagat 10:56, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Just to let you know, since this incident took place in 2007, CheckUser will probably show stale so there's no evidence. Nevertheless, absence of evidence does not equal to evidence of absence. However, you really should have raised it the moment you suspect suck activities occurred, not sit around for a year before reporting it. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I do not see the Gujarati language listed on the metawiki[edit]

Why is it that Gujarati Language is not listed in the selection box of languages? Besides, I have one question. I wrote contributed to the article Sardar Patel University on English Wiki. For that I also created the Infobox and uploaded the images to English Wikipedia. Now based on the same article, I am writing it in gu.wikipedia.org in Gujarati. Do I need to upload the images separately on gu.wikipedia.org? What is the way out if I am using the same images in English Wikipedia and Gujarati Wikipedia?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dr. Dinesh Karia(Talk) (contribs) 05:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

What selection box are you talking about? You should upload your images to Commons if they meet COM:L - then you can use them on any wiki you like without uploading them multiple times.  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 20:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I think he means the selection box on Special:Preferences. However, Gujarati is listed there under "gu" (its ISO 639 code). SPQRobin (inc!) 22:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Faulty redirects @ kl.wikt[edit]

Could somebody with a trustworthy bot fix the left faulty redirects in kl.wiktionary.org like this, this or this, please. All those wrong redirects show up as redirects (i.e. in grey) in Special:Allpages but a significant number of them are still not redirecting properly. Just changing the sequence REDIRECTS [[ into REDIRECT [[ would do the trick. Thanks. --80.5.88.40 16:56, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I can do that for You, tomorrow night, best regards, --birdy geimfyglið (:> )=| 23:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
P.S. If You happen to be Everitt, please use "move" above the page next time, because replacing the page with a redirect and copying the content to the new title is not moving the version history to the correct title. Thanks, --birdy geimfyglið (:> )=| 23:46, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done, best regards, --birdy geimfyglið (:> )=| 22:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks :) No, I am not Everitt but I'll leave them a message with that piece of advice asap --80.5.88.40 10:18, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikimania 2009: Scholarships[edit]

English: Wikimania 2009, this year's global event devoted to Wikimedia projects around the globe, is now accepting applications for scholarships to the conference. This year's conference will be handled from August 26-28 in Buenos Aires, Argentina. The scholarship can be used to help offset the costs of travel and registration. For more information, check the official information page. Please remember that the Call for Participation is still open, please submit your papers! Without submissions, Wikimania would not be nearly as fun! --Az1568 (talk) 02:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Censorship of Josef Fritzl's name at dewiki[edit]

Hey,

There have been a number of discussions on en:User talk:Jimbo Wales about the absence of Josef Fritzl's name on de:Kriminalfall von Amstetten. Concerns have been raised as to whether this constitutes censorship, something enwiki objects to, and as to whether it interferes with other wikis through using redirects as interwiki links.

The relevant discussions on enwiki are at [93], [94] and [95].

I suggested moving the discussion here as it is clear a multi-wiki problem. Computerjoe 13:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I observe many of the interwiki links are missing too on dewiki. Computerjoe 13:35, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias[edit]

Hi!

It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The question is what are these policies?

Each small Wikipedia doesn’t have all variety of policies and guidelines which major Wikipedias have, and—it’s obvious—some time or other they will need such a list of all-projects rules. What I found for now is Help:How to start a new Wikipedia with the rules of copyright, license, NPOV and “What Wikipedia is not”, but this page “is obsolete or no longer maintained” (and there is even no rule of “Five pillars”). There is also page Founding principles exists, but it seems to be relevant for all Wikimedia projects, not only Wikipedias (“Five pillars”, “What Wikipedia is not” are missed). There are some other pages exist, but they all are not relevant here as well.

So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?

And one more question. What is the general practice of who and how can decide whether something meets the (all-project) rules or not?

(This message was also posted to foundation-l mailing list).

zedlik 17:50, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I too am curious. Computerjoe 18:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I will give you a short explanation for this case from the DACH-View: Deutschland, Austria, Switzerland:

  1. if someone is finally convicted, it is allowed, to tell or write his full name.
  2. this case is special: the perpetrator and the victims have the same lastname.
  3. the victims have a special, very strong protection. (§ 7a, MedienG, Austria, I dont want to translate it)
  4. therefore, their names can´t be written. As a respect for the victims. And the law.
  5. Urban legend #1 of wikipedia: the hosting server is located in USA, therefore, everything which happens is dedicated to US-Law. Forget it, this is for idiots! Show me just one court decision xxxxxxx vs. Wikipedia Foundation! Maybe in US, but I dont believe it. But you won´t find a decision here in D-A-CH. We have some cases, but they all ended at an early stage, because we deleted everything on the server before. These are the facts! We don´t have a ultimate decision from an German/Austrian/Swiss supreme court. This counts, nothing else!
  6. fact is, right now I get every Wikipedia-content - even now on Meta.wikipedia - from 91.198.174.2. This server is located in US? Check it by your own! Its a dutch server. And the netherlands are part of the European Union. And, de:WP is not property of the Wikipedia Foundation. We here have WP-associations, they all are subjects of law. Some people say no, some say yes. I say yes. Do we really want to be sued in a probably very sumptuous law suit to verify this? What for? Don´t we want to write an encyclopedia?
  7. last, but not least: here in D-A-CH, we have a law problem, called "Mitstörerhaftung". That means, that, even if the crime or a civil law is realised in US, there is someone in D-A-CH, who was able to prevent this. If this person tolerate this, he is in the same way accountable as the contravener itself.
  8. And who is able to prevent this? Every german, swiss, austrian administrator, every buerocrat, every steward! We don´t need guidelines for all Wikipedias, we just need simple law-knowledge and no beliefs in urban myths.
  9. Dont think about the possible renaming and new identities for the victims! Nobody really knows if this still happens or will happen in the future. And nobody can prove it.
  10. Rethink your personnel conception of Freedom of Speak, your freedom of opinion. But even think about, that victims have rights. And those rights are probably stronger and more important.

Good night and good luck! Pardon me for my bad english. --83.64.115.243 22:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? :D Happymelon 22:28, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Ask user:Computerjoe --83.64.115.243 04:15, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining this. He's discussing the Fritzl case. The Dutch server does raise an interesting point (although that surely is not subject to German law either?). It seems silly that DEWiki could be penalised for using information available in many sources. But IANAL. And this debate could continue ad nauseum but I expect neither of us are likely to change our opinions.
My country too cares about the rights of the victim, as can be seen through the Baby P case. That article seems to avoid using their names, which aren't common knowledge in the UK. And it notes that English editors have to exclude the name due to a court order. In my opinion, I could legally add Fritzl's name to the article because I am surely not subject to German/Austrian/Swiss law. I do note however that that places you in an awkward position. Lots of information, though, should therefore be removed from many articles. Are you in breach of Mitstörerhaftung for not removing his name from the enwiki article? Many complex legal issues here. I understand your hesistation. Computerjoe 12:57, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

@computerjoe: Off course, you can do this! Without any problems because of your US-citicenship, probably! But - as I explained above - if any of the de:WP-Admins may tolerate this in the german version, he may be sued. -> Mitstörerhaftung! During the last two years, a lot of laws changed here in europe, ostensible because of child pornography - in real, they just want to change the laws because the music- and filmindustry claim it. And we all know this. This all starts at 9/11. To get a stronger position, they then try this "Mitstörerhaftung". As long as I am not an autor in this article, I don´t have to do anything. In my opinion, - and I haven´t have even a short inspection of these articles ;-) , I will do nothing, because I am not even a administrator. Thanks god, that I´am an atheist, thanks god, that I don´t have to be a sysop. I never understood, why people voluntarily want to do such an unpaid, concierge-job with no or just very little prestige. --83.64.115.243 13:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your opinion! I had another one, but yours is quite interesting, I'll think about this. —zedlik 08:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Italian wikipedia prevents machine translation inadvertently - is this an issue for the larger community to discuss?[edit]

On the Italian Wikipedia, they have included code if (top !=self) top.location='http://toolserver.org/~pietrodn/wikipedia_redirect.php'; that causes you to be redirected if you attempt to view a page through a frame. This seems to be because a website http://www.wikipedia.it is attempting to frame the Italian Wikipedia. The relevant discussion is here. The problem with this solution is that it makes machine translation of it.wiki basically impossible - upon putting an it.wiki URL in google translate or babelfish, you get the redirect error and translation fails. (This can be fixed by disabling javascript in your browser, or by copy-pasting text, but this is impractical because 99.9% of readers won't know this solution exists.) I have asked at it.wiki about this, but it seems they think that it is more important to thwart wikipedia.it than to allow machine translation. (It's not so easy for me to follow the conversation because I don't speak Italian... and in any event it's tedious to translate because I can't plug the URL into Google Translate!) Is this a discussion that should be happening at it.wiki, or is this an issue for the larger meta community? Obviously my feeling is that if wikipedia.it is doing something illegal (trademark infringement) they should be stopped using legal action, and if they're not doing something illegal (i.e. following the terms of the license) then they should be allowed to continue, and that redirecting is a big problem if it prevents non-Italian speakers from accessing Italian Wikipedia. Calliopejen1 14:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Who owns this domain? Computerjoe 17:41, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
you can find it with the whois tool, anyway the wikimedia.it' issue is well known and working progress--Nick1915 - all you want 18:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
However, I do not experience any problem when using Google Translate to translate it.wikipedia's pages: simply, there's no frame: random page (I don't know why). --Nemo 19:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
@Nemo: Do you use NoScript? If you allow 74.125.43.132 it doesn't work anymore. --Jaqen 19:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

@Calliopejen1: They could check the referrer on itwiki; only if the browser referrer contains wikipedia.it the frame would be set to top e.g. --- Kind regards, Melancholie 21:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't use NoScript and JavaScript is enabled. --Nemo 06:37, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
@Nemo - try again after clearing your cache. It.wiki recently undid this setting, and then restored it, so if you recently visited it.wiki you may be getting the version without this feature. 65.96.164.13 20:44, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe this code can help you. SPQRobin (inc!) 18:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

They seem to have fixed it using the variable wgTitle. 65.96.164.13 12:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible? A common pool of text or tables[edit]

Commons is so useful for quickly share images and media in Wikipedias just with a tag. But if you want repeat a literal text or maybe a table in Wikipedias, how can you do it? Is it possible? Sometimes is a table of numbers or values (language independent) and copy & paste is a lot of work. --Ál 10:51, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Refreshing Special:WantedPages[edit]

Is there any possibility to refresh hr:Special:WantedPages. I know that this might spend some valuable server time, but, IMHO, it should be done at least once a year! --Ante Perkovic 11:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing you have a better chance of making this happen via bugzilla:. For now I've created w:hr:User:Erwin/Wantedpages using a query on the toolserver. --Erwin 20:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

School outreach[edit]

I am living in Malaysia and I am planning to organized a WP outreach in my school. Can anyone tell me where could I find more information about WP outreaches and materials? Diagramma Della Verita 18:39, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Signature doesn't work[edit]

I tried to get my signature to transclude here from my user subpage, as I do at MediaWiki.org and the English Wikisource but it does not work. No matter how many times I tried in the sandbox, it didn't seem to work for me, so I have to insert it manually. This is similar to w:en:User:Thorpe/signature. I have to manually sign everything. Why does it work on MediaWiki.org and the English Wikisource but not here?

If anyone can help me this would be much appreciated. User:Sunwell5/mysignature 23:44, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks like it's because your signature page was deleted, probably because you shouldn't have a templated signature. Just add the raw code as your signature; it's not particularly lengthy. EVula // talk // // 21:28, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Request[edit]

I have requested an edit at Talk:Interwiki_map#Google. If I have posted this in the wrong place, please move the post to the appropriate page and let me know on my talk page. -- IRP 21:14, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for closing Cherokee Wikipedia[edit]

Hello. A proposal has been opened regarding the possible closure of the Cherokee Wikipedia. Please consider taking part in the debate and the vote. Thank you. --Leptictidium 09:59, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Cant sign in/Make an account for a wiki about a game? Help![edit]

Right guys, theirs this website (Wurm Online Wiki

And when ever i sign in, it says theres no one registered as Redeemed90 (me). And also there's no way to create an account on their site.

Any help please? Thanks!

While they're using MediaWiki, the software that was developed for Wikimedia projects (hence the name), it's not a project that we maintain. I notice on the front page of that wiki that it does have a "Quick FAQ," which explains how to make an account. Best of luck. Kylu 15:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Logged in when a new account is created but cannot login with existing accounts![edit]

I just installed MediaWiki today. When I try to login with my admin account, it looks like it logged me in (no error message, etc) but it did not. The Login/Create Account link immediately reappears in the upper right. However, when I create a NEW account, it logs me in after account creation! But if I then log out, I cannot log back in with that same account that I just created. HELP!

You may wish to ask at mw:Project:Support desk, which is there to help users with problems pertaining to the MediaWiki software itself. You've made sure you're using the exact same username and password (they're case sensitive), as before, right? Kylu 15:48, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Innv @ global[edit]

Need remove all rights on Wikimedia projects of this user.

User Innv in Russian Wikipedia has checked by Wulfson and indefinitely blocked for sockpuppet abuse and block evading. This user is a virtual of russian sockpuppeteer Afinogenoff, blocked in 2007 for vandalism and trolling in Arbitration pages, also vandalism and mass sockpuppeting in Wikia Projects (creating vandal puppets in ru.history (for this abuse desysopped by Wikia Staff) and mass vandalism in ru.lgbt in 2007, GFDL-copyvio in ru.history and more other abuses), and voted via some accounts on election in Russian Wikipedia.

Also this user has sysop, checkuser and oversight rights on Traditio (global blocked via Spamblacklist), where violations of these rights through. Also in Traditio this user repeatedly unblock vandalism-only account 'Пауло Мальдини' (blocked as a virtual of Russian Wikipedia serial vandal Aureliano Buendia, indefblocked for mass vandalism and offwiki harassment (publication realname and ip-adress of User:SA Ghost)).

Per all above will be correct remove rights of this user for prevent vandalism and other abuse. This a very dangerous vandal. --85.25.71.227 21:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

You're going to have to log in if you want to be taken seriously.  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 13:29, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
OK, I signed up and log in. --Ykmol 06:30, 10 April 2009 (UTC) (confirmed. --85.25.71.227 06:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC))
So, she he was blocked on Russian Wikipedia as sockpuppet. But why he should be blocked, desysoped on other projects (ru.wikisource, be.wiktionary etc.)? Did he vandal there? No. Did he abuse rights there? No. He helped small projects. He initiate enabling ProofReading, FlaggedRevs on ruwikisource etc. So, why sould he be desysoped?--Ahonc 19:39, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I will write a detailed comment in your talk page. --Ykmol 06:30, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

If the claims of the OP are true, then it is quite a serious issue probably worth letting the other projects know of, particularly the allegation of abuse of checkuser. Werdna 01:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Afinogenoff abuses checkuser rights in the listed in Spamblacklist site Traditio.ru. In this project Afinogenoff has been renamed to User:Dream (renameuserlog: traditio.ru/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=renameuser&page=User:Afinogenoff). Afinogenoff in Traditio use rights for trolling or abuse. E.g. this user repeatedly blocked (blocklog: traditio.ru/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Afinogenoff and traditio.ru/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Dream), including by founder of project for violation of No personal attack to bureaucrat, and twice been removed the checksuer rights (rightslog: traditio.ru/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=rights&page=User:Afinogenoff and traditio.ru/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=rights&page=User:Dream). And on this site user wrote insults of active users of Russian Wikipedia and administartors (e.g. "Участника надо проваливать нафиг, фтопку. Известный враг ВикиТрадиции, очень злой, испорченный человек, выдаёт себя за малолетку, а на самом деле это обычный интернет-педераст, который "дрочит" на клаву. Поэтому голосуем "категорически против". Afinogenoff § 06:10, 23 июня 2007 (UTC)" [traditio.ru/w/index.php?diff=46223&oldid=41823]). --Ykmol 20:08, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
First time Russian CU's said that Innv is not Afinogenoff and situation is under contro;, but after to days Wulfson blocked Innv, as virtual and wrote that checking results will send to Meta stewards ("Наш вывод будет также представлен стюардам Меты для принятия дальнейших необходимых мер. wulfson 12:54, 7 октября 2008 (UTC)"). So, stewards know about this issue.--Ahonc 15:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
@"stewards know about this issue" - nope, I recall having asked that the issue should be clarified, but afaik there never had been any clear statement or conclusion. We won't remove his rights unless they are abused or there is a clear statmenent about the accusations. Best regards, --birdy geimfyglið (:> )=| 16:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
This is joke for 1st April, sorry. Ykmol 16:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Besides the 1.April being long ago it also is not funny at all, calling someone a vandal and asking for his userrights to be removed, note that further "jokes" like that will have consequences, people can get blocked for harassment. Best regards, --birdy geimfyglið (:> )=| 17:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. But not "his", but "her". So is more correct. Regards, --~Innvs: 05:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

O, very, very old troll :) --~Innvs: 05:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Links which may be misspelled[edit]

Hi all. I have placed a list of possible misspelled links here in Meta-Wiki at Meta:Links which may be misspelled. It lists links to non-existing pages where one or more pages with a very similar name exist. The comparison of names is made by ignoring differences in case, diacritical marks and spaces, hyphens, parentheses and other interpunctuation signs.

The list is generated on the toolserver by a program I have made, and it can be run for any Wikimedia project found in the toolserver databases. Please contact me if you want to similar lists for you local Wikipedia or other Wikimedia wiki. Byrial 13:47, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Biographies of living people[edit]

A new policy is being proposed at Biographies of living people. Please add comments, suggestions, thoughts, criticisms, or praise on the talk page. Cheers. --MZMcBride 17:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Link types[edit]

There is a discussion at w:Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Jumbled up mess of link types about incorrect link types on Wikimedia projects. Comments are welcome. -- IRP 17:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

If this issue is of global import, it should take place on Meta. Wikipedia matters should stay on Wikipedia. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 02:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
This was brought up on Meta (see Talk:Interwiki map#Google), but nobody else agreed with IRP that there was a problem. EVula // talk // // 19:03, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Simple English Wikipedia[edit]

Currently, on the Simple English Wikipedia, there is an discussion over its purpose and how it can be reformed. Please see w:simple:WP:ST#Our purpose for the discussion. --The New Mikemoral 00:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Problems with editing and changing articles.[edit]

I have been on several forums and discussion groups that have said that Wikipedia would not allow them to change contents in certain shows (Torchwood and Doctor Who came up.) They were accusing this site of allowing certain anti Torchwood and Doctor Who people with the lack of accurate facts in the subject to do the editing. How true is this? Is it by request of the BBC that changes not be made unless they are approved of copyright reasons? I'm curious to know. Thank you.

No, that's not true, however your question would best be answered on the wiki you're concerned about (probably English Wikipedia)  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 02:42, 30 April 2009 (UTC)