Meeting 1
August 9, 2011
Channel view for “#wikimedia-ie” opened.
-->| YOU (nariekalo) have joined #wikimedia-ie
<Oliver_> hi all
<nariekalo> hi kieran here
<Oliver_> hi kieran
<Oliver_> oliver here
<nariekalo> I set up chatzilla a firefox extension for irc
<Oliver_> cool. using "colloquy", a Mac software
<Oliver_> where you from? I'm based in Cork
<nariekalo> Mac good, guess we wait for others
<nariekalo> Im based in dublin
<Oliver_> dunnu
<Oliver_> I think this may be it
<Oliver_> Gabriel
<Oliver_> you there?
<Oliver_> never been a whizz at IRC, so excuse me if I'm slow
<nariekalo> gabriel shows here on display
<Oliver_> same here
<Oliver_> I'll email
<nariekalo> yeah
<Oliver_> OK
<Oliver_> sent
<Oliver_> anyway, in the mean time
<Oliver_> do you have any ideas about this (MerrionStreet.ie etc.)?
<nariekalo> yeah I thought best to go slowly really, be well set up before we write to government
<Oliver_> think so too
<Oliver_> best to prepare
<Oliver_> Michael Peel from the UK Wikimedia suggested just writing to the editors of Merrions Street tho
<nariekalo> yeah, I misseire last yearhad their trip to dun laog
<Oliver_> the Wikipedai meet up in Dun Laoghaire?
<nariekalo> If we had more people we could have drafted letter? We can say Whitehouse.gov an example of a government website with a creative commons licence.
<nariekalo> I think they went to Maritime Museum
<Oliver_> yea, I was there
<Oliver_> it was a light show up to be honest
<nariekalo> did many go?
<Oliver_> four of us, but worthwhile
<Oliver_> very interesteding to meet people face-to-face after Wikipedia
<Oliver_> was definately worthwhile tho, would definately suggest another
<nariekalo> yeah less anonymous
<Oliver_> I see White House website is simply CC-BY (i.e. only need to attribute)
<Oliver_> actually ... it's a bit different
<nariekalo> Is it not similar/
<Oliver_> looks like all US governmet stuff is copyright free. third party stuff is CC-BY
<Oliver_> I didn't get a change to read through that Irish government licence, did you?
<nariekalo> pity we don't have more here today
<nariekalo> do you have ideas about what to write
<Oliver_> yea - it's slack - wonder where Gabriel is tho
<Oliver_> not really, I was just more interested in exploring ideas
>Gabriel< are you there?
<nariekalo> We can report to mailing list we set up an irc channel and may copy log of conversationI guess
<Oliver_> yea
<nariekalo> should we try skype if they are there?
<Oliver_> TBH - I expect it would still be the "three" of us
<Oliver_> I'm not surprised at the low number tho
<Oliver_> and I don't think it should put us off
<Gabriel_> Hello?
<nariekalo> hi
<Oliver_> hey!
<Gabriel_> Sorry, I was afk
<Oliver_> welcome!!
<nariekalo> can you follow what we said so far?
Oliver_> TBH - I expect it would still be the "three" of us
<Oliver_> I'm not surprised at the low number tho
<Oliver_> and I don't think it should put us off
<Gabriel_> Hello?
<nariekalo> hi
<Oliver_> hey!
<Gabriel_> Sorry, I was afk
<Oliver_> welcome!!
<nariekalo> can you follow what we said so far?
<Gabriel_> I think so
<Oliver_> any ideas - or what you'd like to get out of this chat?
<Gabriel_> Well firstly, am I correct that the licensing of MerrionStreet.ie changed with the new government? What was it before?
<Oliver_> dunno
<Oliver_> something to ask maybe in a ltter?
<Gabriel_> Colm's original message to the mailing list: "I don't know if you've ever come across the website MerrionSteet.ie . It is the "Irish Government News Service". It has a collection of all of the press releases from government departments, as well as images. Previously, the images were under a Creative Commons licence, but recently changed them to full Copyright. The old licence was not acceptable for Wikipedia."
<Oliver_> that's not quite correct, i think
<Oliver_> their flickr is all rights reserved now, wheras previous images were CC
<Oliver_> I don't know about the site copyright
<Gabriel_> Ah, just the images?
<nariekalo> The material featured on this site is subject to Government copyright According to the Copyright and Related Rights Act, 2000. The material may be downloaded to file or printer without requiring specific prior permission.
<Oliver_> the site has a weird "permission" type thing here:
<Oliver_> http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/copyright-and-disclaimer/
<Oliver_> exactly!
<Oliver_> and here: "All the information featured on our website is the copyright of the MerrionStreet.ie unless otherwise indicated. You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format."
<nariekalo> Is that sufficient then?
<Oliver_> I don't know
<Oliver_> that does, in fairness, suggest they may be open at least
<Oliver_> ah wait
<Oliver_> no: Information and documents obtained from this website may be reproduced and/or re-used subject to the latest PSI licence available at http://www.psi.gov.ie/.
<Oliver_> that looks new to me
<Oliver_> I didn't see that last time I looked
<Oliver_> that's licence prvents commercial reuse AFAIK, so not WP compatible
<nariekalo> Re use of public sector information?
<Oliver_> the licence is here: http://psi.gov.ie/files/2010/03/PSI-Licence.pdf
|<-- Gabriel_ has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<Oliver_> gabriel gone?
<nariekalo> We could try emailing editor@merrionstreet.ie for clarification maybe but our email would need to be precisely worded.
<Oliver_> yea
or is there someone in Wikimedia who can check out a licence and see if it compatible
<nariekalo> We might need a specific example as a case study
-->| Gabriel_ (562c58b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.44.88.177) has joined #wikimedia-ie
<Gabriel_> Sorry, I think I was disconnected
<Oliver_> what od you mean?
<Oliver_> @G, no prob
<nariekalo> what do you think?
<Gabriel_> Someone suggested contacting individual parties. Perhaps individuals who have made positive sounds about copyright? http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/128515488711803934.html
<Oliver_> agree would be a good idea to contact parties. also Minister for Public Sector Reform
<nariekalo> can we set up page for mailing list?
<Gabriel_> A Meta page?
<nariekalo> yea wiki page
agree would be a good idea to contact parties. also Minister for Public Sector Reform
<nariekalo> can we set up page for mailing list?
<Gabriel_> A Meta page?
<nariekalo> yea wiki page
<Gabriel_> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Ireland/Projects/MerrionStreet.ie
<nariekalo> we could work on letter to merrion and contact list with the others on mailing list
good by me
<Oliver_> from a quick look over the PSI licence these a parts look incompatible
<Oliver_> The re-use of a document is conditional on the Licensee not using the document:
<Oliver_> (a) for the principal purpose of advertising or promoting a particular product or service;
<Oliver_> (b) for an illegal, immoral, fraudulent or dishonest purpose or in support of the aforementioned purposes;
<Oliver_> (c) in a manner which would imply endorsement by the Licensor; or
<Oliver_> (d) generally in a manner which is likely to mislead others.
<Oliver_> This Licence may be varied from time to time by the Licensor without notice. The Licensee agrees to be bound by the most current version of the Licence as may be published, a copy of which may be obtained at http://www.psi.gov.ie.
<Oliver_> could be wrong about the last part tho, but the a, b, c, d parts look incompatible to me
<Oliver_> on the whole it isn't bad tho
<nariekalo> not using
<Oliver_> "not using"?
<nariekalo> The re-use of a document is conditional on the Licensee not using the document:
<Oliver_> yea, exactly
<nariekalo> I think they wanted all material covered by same license on wikipedia
<Gabriel_> This PSI licence doesn't look very Wikipedia-compatible
<Oliver_> defo not compatible as it stands
<Oliver_> but not entirely far off
<Oliver_> IMO
Oliver_> IMO
<Gabriel_> I'm reminded of the letter Mike Godwin wrote to the FBI
<Oliver_> which was that?
<Gabriel_> http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/us/20100803-wiki-LetterToLarson.pdf
<nariekalo> we needn't be overly legalistic to start with I think
<Oliver_> LOL
<Oliver_> that's some letter
<Oliver_> agreed
Gabriel, do you want to start a letter on the Meta page?
<nariekalo> I have meeting log saved I can post it somewhere
<Oliver_> one to Merrion st.
|<-- Gabriel_ has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<Oliver_> guys, are ye there?
<nariekalo> hi
<Oliver_> one to Merrion st.
|<-- Gabriel_ has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<Oliver_> guys, are ye there?
<nariekalo> hi
<Oliver_> I see Gabriel's gone again
<Oliver_> OK, look, Keiran - how would you feel if I write up a letter and send it around to the small group in the off-list email?
<Oliver_> I'll post it here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Ireland/Projects/MerrionStreet.ie
<Oliver_> and we can discuss it on the talk page, wiki style?
<nariekalo> That would be fine
<Oliver_> cool
<Oliver_> we can take a week or two to get it together
<nariekalo> yeah seems realistic
Oliver_> do you have any points you want put into it?
<nariekalo> look for other states or governments abiding by creative commons licence to give as best practice example
<Oliver_> OK
> cool
<Oliver_> we can take a week or two to get it together
<nariekalo> yeah seems realistic
<Oliver_> do you have any points you want put into it?
<nariekalo> look for other states or governments abiding by creative commons licence to give as best practice example
<Oliver_> OK
<Oliver_> do you want to take that as a task?
<Oliver_> I think the UK govt. do something along those lines too, but not sure
<nariekalo> If you like yeah
<Oliver_> cool
<Oliver_> would appreciate it
<Oliver_> I'll try and get an informed reason why the PSI licence is incompatible
<nariekalo> overview
<Oliver_> and try to come up with some best practice examples from governance for why they should move to a free licence
<Oliver_> yea, just an overview not a legal ins-and-outs
<Oliver_> should that be enough for us?
<nariekalo> that would be enough one two pages maybe
<Oliver_> will get us started anyway
ver_> cool
<Oliver_> I'll sign off and leave you too it
<Oliver_> I'll post something on the meta page in a day or two
<nariekalo> right then signing off bye
