Administrators on your wiki

From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki

Hierdie is 'n opstel. Dit gee die mening en idees van enkele gebruikers op Meta-Wiki weer, maar word waarskynlik nie deur almal ondersteun nie. Dit is ook nie 'n amptelike beleid of riglyn op Meta-Wiki nie, maar dit mag wel een op ander Wikimedia-projekte wees. Voel asseblief vry om hierdie bladsy soos nodig by te werk, of gebruik die kletsblad om groot wysigings voor te stel. هذه نصيحة. تعبر عن آراء وأفكار بعض مستخدمي ميتا-ويكي لكن قد لا تكون مدعومة على نطاق واسع. هذه ليست سياسة على ميتا-ويكي، لكنها قد تكون سياسة أو إرشاد في مشاريع ويكيميديا آخرى. لا تتردد في تحديث هذه الصفحة عن الحاجة، أو استخدم صفحة النقاش للتعديلات الجوهرية. Ovo je esej. Sadrži misli i ideje nekih korisnika Meta-Wikija, ali ne mora nužno da bude široko prihvaćen. Ovo nije pravilo na Meta-Wikiju, ali može da budi pravilo ili uputa na drugim projektima Wikipedije. Slobodno promijenite ovu stranu po potrebi ili koristite stranu za razgovor za veće promjene. Açò és un assaig. Expressa les opinions i idees d'alguns usuaris de Wikimedia o del Meta-Wiki però pot ser que no tingui un ampli suport. Això no és una política del Meta-Wiki, però pot ser política o guia d'estil en algun altre projecte Wikimedia. Sentiu-vos lliures d'actualitzar aquesta pàgina quan faci falta o utilitzeu la pàgina de discussió per a proposar-hi canvis d'importància. Dette er et essay. Det udtrykker visse Wikimedia- eller Meta-Wiki-brugeres holdninger og idéer, som ikke nødvendigvis deles af et flertal. Dette udgør ikke en politik på Meta-Wikien, men det kan være en politik eller et regelsæt på et andet Wikimedia-projekt. Du er velkommen til at ændre denne side efter behov, eller til at foreslå større ændringer på diskussionssiden. Dies ist ein Essay. Er drückt die Meinungen und Ideen einiger Meta-Wiki-Benutzer aus und wird eventuell nur von wenigen Benutzern unterstützt. Dies ist keine Richtlinie aus dem Meta-Wiki, kann aber Richtlinie oder Leitsatz in anderen Wikimedia-Projekten sein. Tu dir keinen Zwang an und aktualisiere diese Seite falls nötig, oder benutze die Diskussionsseite, um größere Veränderungen vorzuschlagen. This is an essay. It expresses the opinions and ideas of some wikimedians or Meta-Wiki users but may not have wide support. This is not policy on the Meta-Wiki, but it may be policy or guideline on other Wikimedia projects. Feel free to update this page as needed, or use the discussion page to propose major changes. Esto es un ensayo. Este texto expresa opiniones e ideas de algunos usuarios pero éstas no tienen un amplio consenso. Esto no es una política de Meta pero sí puede serlo en otros proyectos. Sea usted libre de actualizar esta página o use su página de discusión para proponer cambios mayores. Jen eseo. Ĝi esprimas la opiniojn kaj ideojn de iuj Vikipediistoj aŭ uzantoj de Meta-Wiki, sed eble ne havus vastan subtenon. Ĝi ne estas la regularo de Meta-Wiki, sed ĝi eble estas regularo en aliaj projektoj de Wikipedia. Laŭvole ĝisdatigu ĉi tiun paĝon laŭ bezono, aŭ uzu la diskuto-paĝon por proponi grandajn ŝanĝojn. این صفحه یک انشا است. این صفحه نظر و ایدهٔ برخی از کاربران فراویکی را بیان می‌کند اما ممکن است از حمایت گسترده‌ای برخوردار نباشد. این صفحه یک سیاست در فراویکی نیست، اما ممکن است سیاست یا رهنمودی در دیگر پروژه‌های ویکی‌مدیا باشد. آزادانه آن را به روز کنید، و برای تغییرهای بزرگ از صفحهٔ بحث استفاده کنید. Tämä on essee. Se ilmaisee joidenkin wikimedialaisten tai Meta-Wikin käyttäjien mielipiteitä tai ajatuksia, mutta sillä ei välttämättä ole laajaa kannatusta. Tämä ei ole Meta-Wikin käytäntö, mutta saattaa olla käytäntö tai ohje muissa Wikimedia-hankkeissa. Päivitä tätä sivua tarpeen mukaan tai ehdota isoja muutoksia keskustelusivulla. Ceci est un essai. Il exprime les opinions et les idées de certains contributeurs de Meta-Wiki, mais peut ne pas renconter le soutien des autres. Il n'est ni une règle ou une recommandation sur Meta-Wiki, mais peut l'être sur d'autres projets Wikimédia. N'hésitez pas à modifier cette page si besoin est, ou à proposer des changements majeurs sur la la page de discussion. Dit is in essay. It jout mieningen en ideeën wer fan guon meidoggers op Meta-Wiki, mar it is net sein dat eltsenien it der mei iens is. Dit is ek gjin offisjeel belied of rjochtline op Meta-Wiki, al kin dat wol sa wêze op oare Wikimedia-projekten. Fiel jo frij om dizze side wêr't dat nedich is bij te wurkjen of om grutte wizigings út te stellen op de oerlisside. עברית: דף זה הוא מאמר. הדף מבטא את הדעות והרעיונות של חלק מהמשתמשים במיזמי קרן ויקימדיה או במטא־ויקי, אך ייתכן שאין להם תמיכה נרחבת. דף זה הוא לא דף מדיניות במטא־ויקי, אך ייתכן שהוא דף מדיניות או דף הנחיות במיזמי ויקימדיה אחרים. הרגישו חופשיים לעדכן את הדף לפי הצורך, או השתמשו בדף השיחה להצעת שינויים משמעותיים. Ovo je esej. Sadrži mišljenja i ideje nekih korisnika Meta-Wikija, ali ne mora nužno biti široko prihvaćen. Ovo nije pravilo na Meta-Wikiju, ali može biti pravilo ili uputa na drugim Wikimedijinim projektima. Slobodno promijenite ovu stranicu po potrebi ili koristite stranicu za razgovor za predlaganje većih promjena. Ez egy esszé. Néhány Wikimédia- vagy Meta-Wiki-felhasználó véleményét fejezi ki, de lehet, hogy nem kapott széles körű támogatást. Nem irányelv a Meta-Wikin, de irányelv vagy útmutató lehet más Wikimédia-projektekben. Szabadon frissítheted ezt a lapot, ha szükséges, vagy használd a vitalapot, ha nagyobb változtatást szeretnél javasolni. Isto es un essayo. Illo exprime le opiniones e ideas de alcun wikimedianos o usatores de Meta-Wiki, ma pote non esser appoiate per le consenso general. Isto non es un politica del Meta-Wiki, ma pote esser un politica o directiva in altere projectos de Wikimedia. Sia libere de actualisar iste pagina in caso de necessitate, o usa le pagina de discussion pro proponer major alterationes. Ini adalah sebuah esai. Esai ini menyatakan pendapat dan gagasan dari beberapa Wikimediawan atau pengguna Meta-Wiki dan mungkin tidak didukung oleh komunitas secara meluas. Esai ini bukan kebijakan Meta-Wiki, tapi mungkin saja merupakan kebijakan atau pedoman di proyek-proyek Wikimedia lainnya. Silakan memperbarui halaman ini seperlunya, atau gunakan halaman pembicaraan untuk mengusulkan perubahan besar. Questo è un saggio. Esprime le opinioni e le idee di alcuni contributori di Meta-Wiki, ma può non incontrare il sostegno di altri. Non è una raccomandazione o una linea guida su Meta-Wiki, ma lo potrebbe essere su altri progetti Wikimedia. Non esitate a modificare questa pagina se occorre, o a proporre modifiche rilevanti nella sua pagina di discussione. この記事はエッセイです。何人かのメタウィキの利用者の意見と考えを表していますが、幅広い支持を得ているとは限りません。メタウィキの方針ではありませんが、他のウィキメディア・プロジェクトの方針かガイドラインであるかもしれません。必要に応じてこのページを遠慮なく編集し、大きな変更の提案にはこの記事のノートを使用してください。 이 문서는 수필입니다. 이것은 일부 사용자의 의견을 나타낸 것으로, 총의를 얻지 않았을 수 있습니다. 이 문서는 메타위키 정책은 아니지만, 다른 위키미디어 프로젝트에서 정책이나 지침으로 사용하고 있을 수도 있습니다. 이 문서를 편집하거나 주요 내용을 바꿔야 한다면 토론 문서를 이용해 주세요. Ова е есеј. Во него е искажано мислењето и идеите на извесни викимедијанци или корисници на Мета-Вики, но не значи дека тоа ужива широка поддршка. Ова не претставува правило на Мета-Вики, но може да виде правило или напатствие на други проекти на Викимедија. Најслободно менувајте ја страницава, или пак користете ја страницата за разговор ако сакате да предложите некои поголеми промени. हा एक निबंध आहे. यामध्ये काही विकिपीडिया सदस्यांची किंवा मेटा-विकि सदस्यांची मते आणि कल्पना मांडण्यात आल्या आहेत. त्यांना बहुतांशांचा पाठिंबा असेलच असे नाही. हा निबंध मेटा-विकिवरील धोरण मांडत नाही, पण इतर काही विकिमीडिया प्रकल्पांमध्ये हा निबंध धोरण किंवा मार्गदर्शक तत्व म्हणून वापरला जात असणे शक्य आहे. आवश्यक असेल तेव्हा विनासंकोच हे पान संपादित करा किंवा काही मोठे बदल सुचविण्यासाठी चर्चा पानाचा उपयोग करा. Ini adalah sebuah karangan. Ia menyatakan pendapat serta buah fikiran sesetengah ahli wikimedia atau pengguna Meta-Wiki tetapi tidak semestinya mempunyai sokongan yang meluas. Ini bukannya polisi di Meta-Wiki, tetapi ia mungkin merupakan polisi atau garis panduan di projek-projek Wikimedia lain. Silakan mengemaskini laman ini jika perlu, atau gunakan laman perbincangannya untuk mengusulkan perubahan-perubahan yang besar. Dit is een essay. Het geeft de meningen en ideeën van enkele gebruikers op Meta-Wiki weer, maar wordt waarschijnlijk niet door iedereen gesteund. Dit is ook geen officieel beleid of richtlijn op Meta-Wiki, maar dat kan het wel zijn op andere Wikimedia-projecten. Voel u vrij om deze pagina als nodig bij te werken, of om de overlegpagina te gebruiken om grote wijzigingen voor te stellen. Aquò es una redaccion. Exprimís las opinions e las idèas d'unes contributors de MetaWiki, mas pòt rencontrar pas lo sosten dels autres. Es pas una règla o una recomandacion sus MetaWiki, mas o pòt èsser sus d'autres projèctes Wikimèdia. Esitetz pas a modificar aquesta pagina se fa mestièr, o a prepausar de cambiaments màgers sus la la pagina de discussion. Ten artykuł jest esejem. Wyrażone są w nim opinie i pomysły niektórych wikimedian lub użytkowników Meta-Wiki, ale niekoniecznie mają szersze poparcie. Nie jest to zasada obowiązująca na Meta-Wiki, ale może to być zasada lub zalecenie na innych projektach Wikimediów. Możesz aktualizować tę stronę w razie potrzeby lub skorzystaj ze strony dyskusji artykułu aby zaproponować większe zmiany. Isto é um ensaio. Ele expressa as opiniões e idéias de vários wikimedianos ou usuários do Meta-Wiki mas pode não ter grande respaldo. Isto não é uma política no Meta-Wiki, mas pode ser uma política ou orientação em outros projetos da Wikimedia. Sinta-se livre para atualizar esta página quando necessário, ou use a página de discussão para propor alterações maiores. Acesta este un eseu. Aici sînt exprimate opiniile şi ideile unor utilizatori de pe Meta-Wiki, dar este posibil să nu aibă accepţiune majoritară. Aceasta nu are titlu de politică pe Meta-Wiki, dar poate fi politică sau ghid de reguli pe alte proiecte ale Wikipediei. Poţi să îmbunătăţeşti această pagină după cum crezi adecvat, sau să foloseşti pagina de discuţie pentru a propune schimbări majore. Это эссе. Оно выражает мнения и идеи некоторых пользователей Мета-вики, но может не пользоваться широкой поддержкой. Эссе не является правилом Мета-вики, но, вероятно, может быть правилом или руководством в других проектах Викимедиа. Вы можете обновлять эту страницу как считаете нужным или воспользоваться страницей обсуждения, чтобы предложить масштабные изменения. Ово је есеј. Садржи мисли и идеје неких корисника Мета-Викија, али не мора да буде широко прихваћен. Ово није правило на Мета-Викију, али може да буде правило или упутство на другим пројектима Викимедије. Не устручавајте се да промените ову страну по потреби или користите страну за разговор да бисте предложили веће промене. Den här sidan är en essä. Den är inte en av Wikimedias policys eller riktlinjer, och återspeglar kanske endast författarnas åsikter. Uppdatera sidan om det behövs eller diskutera innehållet på diskussionssidan. หน้านี้เป็นข้อเขียน แสดงถึงความคิดหรือไอเดียของผู้ใช้วิกิมีเดียหรือเมต้าวิกิบางคนซึ่งอาจจะยังไม่ได้รับการสนับสนุนกว้างอย่างขวางนัก นี่ไม่ใช่นโยบายบนเมต้าวิกิ, แต่อาจเป็นนโยบายหรือแนวทางของโครงการอื่น ๆ ของวิกิมีเดีย อย่ากังวลในการแก้ไขหน้านี้ตามที่คุณต้องการ หรือใช้หน้าอภิปรายในการเสนอการเปลี่ยนแปลงใหญ่ ๆ Đây là một bài luận. Nó thể hiện ý kiến và ý tưởng của một số thành viên Wikimedia hoặc Meta-Wiki và có thể không được đồng tình một cách rộng rãi. Đây không phải là quy định tại Meta-Wiki, nhưng nó có thể là quy định hoặc hướng dẫn tại các dự án khác của Wikimedia. Xin hãy thoải mái cập nhật trang này nếu cần, hoặc sử dụng trang thảo luận để đề xuất những thay đổi lớn. 这是一篇论述。它只表达了部分维基人或元维基使用者的意见及观点，此等观点可能未获得广泛支持。这不是元维基的政策，但可能是属于其他维基计划的政策或指引。如有需要，欢迎更新本页面，或在讨论页提出修改的建议。 这是一篇论述。它只表达了部分维基人或元维基使用者的意见及观点，此等观点可能未获得广泛支持。这不是元维基的政策，但可能是属于其他维基计划的政策或指引。如有需要，欢迎更新本页面，或在讨论页提出修改的建议。 這是一篇論述. 它只表達了部分維基人或元維基使用者的意見及觀點，此等觀點可能未獲得廣泛支持。 這不是元維基的政策，但可能是屬於其他維基計劃的政策或指引。如有需要，歡迎更新本頁面，或在討論頁提出修改的建議。 [translate]

[edit] My random thought

この考察は、筆者個人に属するもので、特定コミュニティを代表するものではありません。

Disclaimer: it is an randomly running thought of the author as an individual participant to Wikimedia projects, not an official report from a certain project, nor its author represents any project of Wikimedia Project. It is written to consider the issues around sysopship sincerely, not to accuse certain individuals or projects. It is totally her own thought. --Aphaia | WQ2翻訳中 | talk 23:48, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

日本語ウィキペディアの慢性的な管理者不足を解消するための予備考察として、コミュニティがもちうる管理者像とその類型分析を本稿では試みる。またこれは潜在的に同じ問題をかかえる他のコミュニティをも益することになろう。読者の感想を歓迎する。

Japanese Wikipedia is on growth. It has over 16,000 registered users , 200 new articles per day, soon it will reach 100,000 articles. Currently there are 30 admins (and a candidate on voting now). Many people agree on that Japanese Wikipedia needs more good admins, even those who wouldn't like to request for adminship. But there are always few candidates and to urge them, we need many 'please consider our current situation' and such a wording.

Even a sysop once requested others to request for sysopship on our Village Pump. But his words didn't change the situation. I would like to change this situation. That's the reason I express my thought on adminship in general, classify their different types, and show my thought what kind of admins are expected by a certain community, at least in my view and ask you to share your thought and experiences for the purpose we have more numbers of good sysops on wikis. It will be helpful for other communities which have similar problem of shortage of sysops potentially.

[edit] A hypothesis of various admin types

ウィキメディアプロジェクトでは伝統的な管理者像として「門番」(janitor)があるが、これに対比されるものとして「権威者」(person in authority)をたてることができる。これとは別にわれわれはもう一対の管理者像を仮定することが出来よう。これらについては後で詳しく述べることにする。

Generally we understand administrators on Wikimedia project is a sort of janitor; they have admin privileges and are allowed to use those ability but the differences are only techinical and it doesn't mean therefore they have a both privilege and honored status in their community. They are trusted people, sometimes (and hopefully often) respected but because of their personality and devotion to the project they engage, not because of their offices.

But recently a friend of mine suggesteed "sysops are not so often accused severly, at least they (or we, because he has sysopship on several projects) have authority." What kind of authority? That is my question. Because of their personal charisma or legitimacy they hold their privilege under the trust of their own community? If so, it is fine. But if those authority comes from the office itself (if it is appropriate for me to call sysopship an office), it would mean sysopship has its own dignity and honor in fact as some people imagine of believe in, and it would be far from the janitor model that I mentioned on the above.

First I indicate two types of pair for sysop models: I. persons in authority vs. janitors, and II. servants vs. explorer.

[edit] Set 1. Authority or janitors

「権威者」タイプと「門番」タイプについて。とりわけコミュニテイがもちうる管理者像としての「権威者」像についての考察。

As far as I know, no community of Wikimedia project states officially they have the "persons in authority" model for their sysop image, but the janitor model, that is, a sysop is not different from other users without their sysopship and serves the community to deal with vandals, trolls, copyvio and other nuisance with their privilege. But some people are stick to the former model. On the community, now I imagine Japanese Wikipedia issues, there are some people who think sysops are not merely janitors but somehow authoritative, and expect sysops to deal with issues that we don't need sysopship to resolve it ("I want an admin to suggest an approopriate goal toward our dispute", "As User :XX, who is an sysop, said so..." and so on). Unless there are authoritative sysops, it is their illusion or misunderstanding. So how can we resolve such misunderstanding? It would be our first challenge.

[edit] Set 2. Servants or explorers

「下僕」タイプと「探検家」タイプの二つの管理者像について。

There are another kind of model for sysop image: I call them the "servant" model and "explorer" model (I prefer here to use the word explorer to leader). It belong originally to my frined who was mentioned on the above.

The servant type sysops are expected to verbally serve the community as if they were a servant who are allowed only under the permission in advance of their master. They are expected to act totally within the clear consensus of community, it means if there are no clear written policy, they isn't allowed to do so. And if they break the exisiting rules or just make a failure, they are accused. It is a bit emphasized, but a possible model, I believe. At least some of Japanese Wikipedians seem to think such sysops are acceptable one. If a sysop have a different interpretation of rules they have, so she or he is innappropriate to keep their privilege. On the other hand the explorer sysops are of course expected to respect the rules, not their written expression, but their idea and context. If something is not forbidden to them clearly, it means they can do. Such sysops are expected to be bold and make a creative attempt. Perhaps sometimes their attempts failed or give no fruits, but it is not accused unless they are based on bad faith or heavily misinterpretation of the rules and policies. They are cheerful and love to do something new and challenging.

I think the latter type is a major type of Wikimedia project sysops, but don't think all of sysops belong to this type. Some sysops on Japanese Wikipedia avoid every vote, because he is afraid he wouldn't be able to be neutral if he votes once. I don't accuse him here, I know he is a trusted user. I only think he could be a good example of 'servant model' sysop: he is worried the community won't support his action with sysop privilege, and doubt his neutrality, if he reveals his own position. An explorer-sysop wouldn't like to be quiet on the same occasion, I suppose.

[edit] Combinations of those four archetypes

既出の四つの管理者像の組み合わせによって、さらに管理者像の細分化を試みる。

The first pair I propose is 'persons in authority' / 'janitor' and the second pair of 'servant' / 'explorer', so there are four sets logically. Perhaps a janitor-servent one and a persons in authority-explorer one can easily imagine. So I leave them here for the readers' understanding. Or we can call authority-explorer 'a sort of leader'. If they respect the rules and policy and are nice, I think there are no problem for them. And in my observation the janitor-explorer type sysops are the majority on our project. They know to listen to the others but as individuals they are good challangers and make many new proposals and attempts to improve their community. But on discussion they don't behave an authority or someone with powers and others on the community think so.

Well then, what kind of folks are 'persons in authority' and 'servent' type sysops? Is it an impossible set? I don't think so because in my opinion some Japanese Wikipedians seem to hold this type as their sysop image, and some Japanese Wikipedia admin hold this image as what they are expected to be so. According to their concept, a sysop should follow and obey every policy and rule, and not add something new without argument in advance, and at the same time, should deal with troubles as authorities. It is similar an army under civilian control or a police under a constitutional government. That is, because they have power and authority, they should be kept within the sight of community and therefore shouldn't bring anything new. This model has its virtue. He is respected and his words are easily followed on the community. But I suspect we can call it trust. Our frined, Joi introduced a thesis to me, it was written by a Japanese psychologist, and described that Japanese don't trust others, but require them to assurance, for trust is meaningful if something is not already known or assuerd. The psychologist stated based on his research in Japan and U.S.A. and I think this assumption can be applied to Japanese Wikipedia community too. The requirement to be a servant and not to be an explorer is similar to require assurance, without trust and allowance to free action.

[edit] Authoritative servants?

権威者でかつ下僕である管理者像とはどのようなものか。そのような管理者像に付随する問題点とはなにかについて考察を試みる。このような管理者像は、とくにコミュニティにとって、管理者になることへの抑制として働く可能性があると思われる。管理者が権威者としてみられやすいいくつかのコミュニティでの事例からわれわれはそのように推論する。

So back to the words of my friend. I admit on Japanese Wikipedia sysops are respected in general (and in addtion, I am not a sysop there, but on Wikiquote - a tiny border of our gigantic Project: and I think it is meaningful and interesting), and I assure most of them are worthy to be trusted and hence respected. But it is a bit different from that they have authority and they are expected to be have as such. And as authority they are accused when they expressed their bad emotion, like anger to a sort of vandalism, because it is innapropriate to their status. And more worse, many people expect sysops to deal with vandals and disputes by them alone, because they should be for this purpose: so here sysops are authoritive because of their power, but servants who deal with nasty things good people never touch.

I think this model is somehow depressive, and doubt if it is most common shared image for sysops. Specially among registered users without sysopship, and suspect if it is the major reason we have relatively less administrators and also candidates on Japanese Wikipedia. Japanese Wikipedia has 30 sysops and over 16,000 registered users as for January 27, 2005. Over 500 users are registrated per a sysop and it is a second highest average among the entire Wikimedia project. I would have liked to recommend good and trusted users to sysop candidates, but much of them rejected my offer. Some of them had so private issues that they coudln't engage much more to the project. I think it is a reasonable rejection and they were one third who I proposed their request for adminship. Some of them rejected because they wanted not to be disturbed, not to be gossiped, in particular on a certain Japanese bulletin board like slashdot. There are many people who gossip Japanese Project issue. Even some people claim it is helpful to stay as unregistered user to avoid such gossiping. And other people indicated they weren't so respectable to request sysopship. Or to have authority. "I am not a sort of such authoritative", wrote a certain user.

I pointed out such tendency isn't not only the phenomenon within Japanese projects. I heard similar rejections on other some wikis. I think such way of thinking would reflect the cultural tendency of community which would be a part of a bigger community which is characterized with their vernacularity or linguistical features; another friend of mine one praised me that I talked very politely, but perhaps it is mainly reflect my wording of Japaenese, it is not so polite beyond average, though it is not so rough heavily. On Japanese Wikipedia we talk with desu/masu, corresponding to French vovoier or German siezend. It is a slight difference but make some effect to each community; Japanese Wikipedian tend to not to think other Wikipedians as their friend, but only those who join the same project and not to want to make their tie stronger. For your information, Japanese Wikipedia has no facebook, no birthday list, no local Wikipedians' list, seldom Wiki meet-ups. There were several known Wiki meet-ups but only two of them were announced in advance on Wikipedia itself. Other were merely announced in other places. So perhaps you are not surprised many people believe or suspect the Cabal existance, but there is another topic, so I leave it now.

[edit] Endnote

いくつかの疑問：このような状況は変革可能なものか、そもそも管理者とはいかにあるべきか、ほかに個々のコミュニティにはどのような管理者像があるのか、そこでは管理者には何が望まれているのか――読者からのコメントを歓迎します。

Lastly I put my questions here. What is necessary for us to change our current situation, if it goes not well? What should be an sysop and sysopship? How do you think and what is the concensus around sysopship on your community? What you and your community expect to your admins? How could you recruit new sysops on your community? Please come and put your feedback and advice. It will help not only Japanese Wikipedia, I expect, but other Wikimedia project where people share a similar problem and where user population is on growth rapidly. And I appliciate you heartly to follow my argument throughly.

--Aphaia | WQ2翻訳中 | talk 22:28, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

Thank you for your feedback! / Merci pour ton comment / Vielen Dank fuer deine Komemntar im Voraus / Grazie per la tua impressione e informatione / コメントをありがとうございます / ......

I agree with you and think it is helpful for many if there are some clear words about what a sysop is. I don't know how it's currently described on the Japanese Wikipedia, but here are some random thoughts on this from me:

Of all these models, janitor, trusted person, someone with authority, servant and explorer, the trusted person is what the status of a sysop is originally meant to be. Now it happens, that people with a special status, or a small group of people within a larger are often treated with some respect. And who is getting more respect than others is likely someone with some special authority. This conclusion appears to happen in the heads of many people, because this is how it works in other places, but it is not all compatible with Wiki-structures.

Now a sysop has usually more Wiki-experience than someone who is new. Sysops can help others, answer questions and can sometimes mediate if there's a dispute. But they can do this because they are more experienced, and not because they are sysops. For someone who does not consider this experience, it might be that an election can be mistaken as a special burden that they don't want to carry.

Some might look forward to become sysop because they consider it a special honor, or might see sysopship as a special award.

The most original definition of sysops would be that they have earned trust not to abuse their little special power, and that it should not be a big deal considering if they write nice articles, can give good help, are frequently online and all, because that's something that everyone can (or not) without being a sysop. To explain sysopship with th trust would be a concept that's easy to explain and to understand. And who has earned trust will also be a good example for others in any important manner.

-- Schnargel 03:45, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Vielen Dank fuer deine nette und ernste Kommentar, Schnargel, yes , I agree on that the trusted persons should be our first definition for adminstrators on our projects. It has two meanings, 1. they should be trusted by their community to be granted their previledges and 2. they should remain to be trusted persons. On meta's Administrators expresses the second aspect briefly: Lose it(=adminship) if people feel they cannot trust you. . And I appriciate you for your pointing to their experience. Their experience and behave have us trust them and agree on their request for adminship as a result, but not contrary. As you pointed out, if one lose this point, sysopship might be a heavy burden.

And thank you for your qualifications for a good sysop or what make us trust them; their good contributions, their good manner as Wikipedians and after all their engagement. It is further related to another topic what kind of sysops should be desysops. Today we discuss anywhere how we should treat inactive or passive sysops - some communities (on meta or ja.wikipedia, for example) desysop inactive sysops, others (on it.wikipedia) began to discuss if they should do, but some people think if inactive sysops were trusted during their activities, it is not bad to keep them hold sysopship. We need to argue this point further.

Sansculotte gave me his feedbacks and showed me two additional models of sysops: Textgartener and Kindergaertner. I think they are subsets of or similar to janitor and authorities. But here we can find another element; their attitude to issues and the community. A janitor is more functional than gartener who have a love for his work. Kindergaertner (or nurse in English) should have authority to deal with nasty kids (that is, trolls and vandals at ours) but they are rolemodels (Vorbild) for their children.

Schnagel you refer to this element too, a sysop as a rolemodel. It is ideal sysops are a rolemodel of their community, agreed. And I think some community share this idea. But I would like to point out that it is not a duty for a sysop to be an ideal Wikipedian: if he act always or almost everytime on a good faith , I feel it is enough for us. Acting on a good faith is worthy to be an ethical rolemodel in general. I heard some Wikipedians, whom I trust, said "I am not worthwhile for having sysopship ; I can't be so respectful. It is hard for me to be a rolemodel of our community". So we should be careful to make those two distinct: it is an ideal but not a duty. If someone attempt to be so, it is okay, unless he is far away from his ideal.

I think it is a modal of modesty but also a lack of self-esteem and it is our challenge how we can encourage those people to convince they are involved into the community and engage the community very well enough be trusted. I know a Wikipedian who couldn't believe that the community would admitted him as a good candidate, but now he is one of most active sysops on a community.

Comments will be always appliciated. --Aphaia | WQ2翻訳中 | talk 16:58, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] See also

• MeatBall:CategoryRole