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The Wikimedia Forum is a central place for questions and discussions about the Wikimedia Foundation and its projects. (For discussion about the Meta wiki, see Meta:Babel.)
This is not the place to make technical queries regarding the MediaWiki software; please ask such questions at the MediaWiki support desk; technical questions about Wikimedia wikis, however, can be placed on Tech page.

You can reply to a topic by clicking the "[edit]" link beside that section, or you can start a new discussion.
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Change in renaming process[edit]

Part or all of this message may be in English. Please help translate if possible.

-- User:Keegan (WMF) (talk) 9. sep 2014, 18:22 (CEST)

Assessing mobile edits on Hindi Wikipedia[edit]

Hello, there has interesting discussions in the press and the electronic media about the viewership and mobile edits on Hindi Wikipedia.

Can somebody help with a query to know the real extent of edits on this Wikipedia. Else, the information estimates might not give an accurate picture. --Muzammil (talk) 19:12, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

User:Maryana (WMF) and User:Deskana (WMF) both deal with mobile editing. One of them might be able to get the information that you would like. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:54, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
@Hindustanilanguage: Hi there! So, all mobile edits on all Wikimedia wikis are tagged. These tags allow you to filter the edits. For example, this list will show you all edits made to the Hindi Wikipedia using either the mobile web interface or the mobile app, and you'll see that each edit also includes another tag that tells you specifically whether it was made through web or apps. If you want more information than that provided by the tags, you'll have to be more specific about what it is that you want and why you want it. Hopefully that helps. --Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 23:59, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
@DGarry (WMF), Maryana (WMF), Whatamidoing (WMF):, thanks for the info, but I already knew that information. I need a more classified info such as:
  1. No. of Mobile editors
  2. Monthly Mobile edits
  3. New articles created through Mobile edits
  4. Nature of Mobile edits - major / minor.
Regards, --Muzammil (talk) 09:11, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Statistics has the links you're looking for. And now Limn even has deep links at last, wow, so I can link you directly, in order:
  1. ,
  2. ,
  3. no idea,
  4. is there even a minor edit checkbox? --Nemo 09:17, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Nemo,

  • Does 1 & 2 pertain specifically to HiWP or is it an overview of all Wikis / Wikipedias?
  • For normal WP edits, I see checkbox "This is a minor edit". Categorization/ decategorization through Hotcat is automatically marked as minor. --Muzammil (talk) 18:04, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
  • All wikis. There may be similar graphs for somewhere but I don't remember right now.
  • Yes, but on Mobile? I doubt HotCat is available on Mobile, is it. --Nemo 18:08, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Nemo, but please, if you ever get HiWP-specific info, please post a message, here before the bot cuts the discussion abruptly, or on my talkpage, afterwards. --Muzammil (talk) 19:49, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Graphs, Maps, ... (experimental)[edit]

As part of my Zero efforts, I had to implement some graphs... and thus Graph Extension was born, adapting Vega visualization grammar. It is still in its infancy, but it can already do some fancy stuff. Since this is experimental, it has only been enabled on and meta. It will not be enabled on production wikis until there is a consensus that 1) it is needed 2) it is secure 3) it won't melt our servers or be a bandwidth hog.

Graphs can plot various charts and maps with highlights, and templates can be used to dynamically change the behavior. For example, we could have a template {{WorldMapWithHighlight|country=NZ}} that would draw world map with New Zealand highlighted. It could also overlap some additional symbols/text/colors - anything that Vega allows.

This example was copied from the vega tutorial, and could have also been placed into a template or its own full page in the Graph: namespace. See other examples.

--Yurik (WMF) (talk) 05:57, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Comments/questions/rotten tomatoes:

Thanks for the update, always nice to see work on all things visual. --Nemo 06:15, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Missing accessibility features. An aria-label for the 'alt' text would be a minimum to solve that. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:09, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
TheDJ, if I understood correctly, <canvas aria-label="some text"> should be enough? I could easily add a new attribute to the <graph aria-label="some text"> tag, but for the Graph: namespace I would have to extend the vega syntax with an additional top-level key-value, e.g. "aria-label":"some text". For consistency sake, we probably should keep the second approach for both the graph tag and graph namespace. Is this acceptable? --Yurik (WMF) (talk) 17:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
An accessibility label is contextual, so ideally, you'd have both, with fallback to whatever is defined in the Graph namespace, and the the option to do a local 'transclusion' specific label. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I think we are in an agreement - when users define graph in a namespace, they can use transclusion parameter, e.g. {{{label|default text}}} --Yurik (WMF) (talk) 04:14, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
I love the functionality! Specially for maps! Yurik (WMF), could you have a look at en:Wikipedia:Lua_requests#overhaul_Module:Chart? I think kipod has made a useful list of challenges and there are some comments. We really, really need a simple way to include maps/world maps with values in Wikipedias and to update them without handcolouring on commons-files :-) --Atlasowa (talk) 10:04, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Lies regarding fundraising[edit]

You do not need donations "to keep [Wikipedia] online and ad-free another year" - the Wikimedia Foundation has way more than enough money to keep the site running. You could keep it running for decades with the donations already collected. Why do you continue to solicit funds with this lie? The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:51, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

That's a good question. A reply from the WMF would be nice. - Ypnypn (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for this question. The Wikimedia Foundation is lucky to have a base of thousands of donors who help annually sustain the Wikimedia projects, and their donations go toward powering our servers, enabling software development and platform improvements, and supporting programmatic endeavors worldwide. It is important to note, however, that the entirety of the Foundation's annual budget is not intended to be spent immediately. To be financially sustainable, a nonprofit organization must retain enough working capital to meet its program goals over the long term. This is acknowledged as a best practice for nonprofits of all kinds, because by retaining a percentage of our budget in reserves each year, we are preparing for unexpected difficulties, including financial ones. We want to be able to ensure that the work done by the Wikimedia community is accessible on the internet for decades to come, and these reserves help us ensure that. It is also important to note that the WMF's commitment to transparency extends to our donations as well. We welcome donor questions regarding where their donations go, and respond to these questions by referencing the following resources: our Financial Reports, the Foundation's Annual Plan, and our Fundraising data. It is important that our donors feel they can make an informed decision about if and how much to donate, so we address these concerns as thoroughly and thoughtfully as possible. --CCogdill (WMF) (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
This reply doesn't relate to the question at all: is this some boilerplate text? I think deserves a real, personal answer to their specific question. --Nemo 05:17, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi Nemo, thanks for following up. My response was focused on addressing our need for reserves, which was what I perceived as the intent behind the IP user's question. Can you be a little more specific about what further information you were hoping my reply would cover? Jimmy's responses on his talk page have addressed this concern in a similar way — that it is responsible for any nonprofit to retain reserves to cover operating expenses in the event that the fundraising model is disrupted, or some other unforeseen issue arises. Please let me know if you have other questions. --CCogdill (WMF) (talk) 23:15, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
See also Jimbo's Wikipedia talk page where this point has also been raised - QuiteUnusual (talk) 08:02, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Dear CCogdill, the point is that you don't tell the donors the truth. Maybe it's not completly lying, but you are misleading them. To keep Wikipedia running and add-free a small number in the millions would do it. But you want around 50 million dollars again. So don't tell them it is to keep Wikipedia add-free and running, but tell them it is for an ever-growing San Francisco institution. Tell them that it means more money for those departments that didn't do a good job so far like on the VE as best example. And tell them that you think that throwing more money on it will amke it better instead of first turning every stone and finding out while so much money got wasted in the last decade on projects that had no benefiting effect, on software that doesn't work to our - the editors demands. Tell the donors that they will finance an organization that wrestles with the people who actually created the contend our donor's love over the control and does invent Superprotect et al to force us. Then every donor can make a concious decision if he wants that and give money for that. But please, don't do again this lying as if with 5 millions the lights of Wikipedia would switch off, no they would be switched off in the San Fracisco offices. And don't do again this crappy public relations bla bla that especially our head of the board is so fond of. And sorry, CCogdill, i'm sure you do your job good and are a good person, but your bosses do everything to destroy my good faith in the Foundation. And this way of asking for donations with telling half-truth and keeping hidden the complete facts from the donors (and be honest, the donors don't read annual plans or whatever, they are users who love wikipedia and want to help to keep it running) is not a measure to restore and secure faith. Best regards --Julius1990 (talk) 23:32, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi Julius1990, I'm sorry to hear that your confidence has been shaken. I hope that the ongoing work of the new Executive Director and the new Director of Community Engagement (Product) will lead to smoother deployments so that your confidence can be restored. In terms of the Wikimedia budget, this is created in consultation with the Board to broadly benefit the entire movement in order to keep it running and build a reserve (in line with best practices for non-profit organizations). Funds go toward product and engineering improvements but also on supporting chapters in their outreach activities around the world, and supporting individual engagement grants that do things like provide access to reliable sources to editors. They provide for the attorneys who do things like process DMCA takedowns and defend contributors from personal lawsuits, and for the accountants who file the paperwork necessary for us to receive the donations that keep the servers going. I believe that it's generally understood that institutional maintenance is part of “keeping the lights on” at Wikipedia, but, again, we do post as transparently as we can where donations go so that people don't have to wonder. Certainly, there will never be complete consensus on every budget decision, internally or externally. But there are processes for getting involved in this and helping to guide decisions. Beyond the open processes for the Funds Dissemination Committee and the IEGs, you can voice your thoughts on how the money is used to the WMF and to the Board. Direct feedback on the current Annual Plan for spending can be made on the Questions and Answers page, and there is also a talk page for the Wikimedia Budget. The Board, of course, has its noticeboard. And you can also influence the direction of the WMF by helping to shape the board; 5 of its members are selected in some fashion by community. The next election takes place in 2015.
I don’t think myself that the request is misleading. However, I will pass along your feedback to the rest of my team in Fundraising. Feedback is important and always welcome. You can also give feedback directly at Talk:Fundraising or find us on the publicly logged IRC channel at #wikimedia-fundraisingconnect. Again, I know the amount of money we should raise and how it should be spent is not going to be a matter of universal agreement, but there’s a lot of room for collaboration in making these determinations. I hope that you will participate.--CCogdill (WMF) (talk) 16:35, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Dear CCogdill, i'm aware of all those fields and many I approve. But for example I also see that especially the software department in the last years had a very, very poor cost-effect ratio. What I mean is: Tell the people this. Make them aware of those fields like legal security and so on. Tell them that you also finance lobbying and projects for OER. But don't let them believe that they give money for two things only: Keeping the severs running, and keeping Wikipedia ad-free. To tell them the whole image would be a honest way to ask for their money. It would be nice if you pass my opion along to where it can be considered, though I know that the Foundation's politics won't change. After all what happend especially in the recent months I don't have the feeling anymore that my concern as editor and generally editor communities concerns are taken into consideration, because you bosses think they rule the movement and know where it should be heading. I stell work as volunteer though, since have a liitle hope left for Lila. Anyway, I appreciate that you also stated your own, personal position/opinion and not just the offical, public-realtions listing (and that is a general critic, most times we editors have not the feeling to reach to you employes at all, because you often hide behind "we" and advertising speech), but I just once again want to ask you to make sure that the donors get to know what is all the movement about and where their money is spend on and not just put sand in their eyes with mentioning the most successful and loved project and hiding many other things behind the "Wikipedia"-label. Thanks for your listening. Kind regards. --Julius1990 (talk) 17:21, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Julius and others. Over the last couple years, the WMF has shown more and more that they have no respect for the editing community. They appear to view the community as an expendable commodity that is easily replaceable and beneath them. Members of the WMF have shown this in their pushing of VE, MediaViewer, Superprotect and others. They continue to look down on the community as a nuisance and an irritation rather than a stakeholder and a partner in the development of the site. No one is saying that they shouldn't continue to develop software changes or that many who use the MediaWiki software wouldn't value those changes, but the WMF needs to stop forcing them onto the Wikipedia community to use it as a test lab for these changes long before they are ready for deployment. These are the changes the WMF is spending millions on developing. I personally don't have a problem with fundraising either but I also agree with the others above that many of the messages are disingenuous either intentional or unintentional. As a personal example I use to donate a couple hundred dollars a year and I had several friends that donated a lot more (a couple in the thousands of dollars a year range) as a tax write off because I convinced them that it was a worthwhile donation. We have all stopped donating to keep Wikipedia and company running partly because of the WMF's attitude towards the community and the toxic editing environment that Wikipedia has become. No one wants to be associated to toxicity or people who do not value their contributions. Reguyla (talk)

Most viewed articles - Hindi Wikipedia not included[edit]

Hello. list does not include Hindi and many other Indian language while it includes Vietnamese and Slovak Wikipedia. Please include Hindi as well. --Muzammil (talk) 09:30, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

On the three revert rule in the english wikipedia[edit]

"Being "right" is not an exception to the three-revert rule, and claiming that your version is the "better" version is not a reason that will get you unblocked." - WHAT

This is a huge flaw that is currently being exploited by a russian admin and several russian editors in the article. Please see the history or just take one look at the article to see a clear lack of neutral point of view.

The russian admin there (Ymblanter) is abusing his powers by precisely using the rules to block non-russian editors, while excluding the pro-russian propoganda edits from the rules. In other words, he's cherry picking based on his own pro-russian bias.

All of that makes me mad as hell. Especially that wikipedia is made so people who follow the rules, but have no good faith or understanding of NPOV can attain admin status unsigned comment by (talk) 19:01, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Weird NL response to donations[edit]

At info-NL OTRS queue we are receiving complaints from people who donated and received this message:

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:00:11 +0000

To: <left out client mail address>
Subject: Uw donatie aan de Wikimedia Foundation

Beste donateur,
Wikimedia heeft onlangs weer haar jaarlijkse fondsenwerving campagne binnen Nederland afgesloten. Dankzij gulle gevers zoals u, naderen we onsze doel. We schrijven u deze email, omdat uw recente donatie van €10 dat op 9/4/14 13:55 via iDEAL was overgemaakt, helaas niet gelukt isis geweigerd. Dat kan weleens voorkomen bij donaties via iDeal doordat er onderhoud wordt verricht bij banksystemen. Omdat dit onbekend is bij onze donateurs, wilden we u van deze verwerkingsfout op de hoogte brengenhierop op de hoogte brengen van deze verwerkingsfout. Mocht u ons alsnog willen helpen met een donatie, zodat we onze fondsenwerving voor 2014 helemaal kunnen afronden, dan kunt u ook betaalopties zoals credit card and PayPal overwegen. Voor een uitgebreide keuze in betaalopties en om een nieuwe donatie over te maken, zie onderstaande link: Nogmaals hartelijk dank voor uw steun. Neem gerust contact met ons op als u verder nog vragen heeftbt. Met vriendelijke groet, De Wikimedia Foundation Fondsenwerving Team

The message is written in so poor Dutch that it looks like scam. The message claims that the money transfer was refused and begs to donate again, although the money is taken from the clients bank account. Can you confirm whether this message comes from Wikimedia or not? If so, please also confirm that you fix this ASAP. If not, please find out ASAP how private information of our valuable sponsors could leak to scammers. Jcb (talk) 15:27, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Jcb. :) It's kind of early in SF, so I'm seeing who I can find. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Okay, as I said, it's kind of early still in SF (I'm remote), but I've had quick response. I've confirmed that the mail is legit. They will be looking into the concerns, and I hope they will be able to follow up further soon. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:04, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi Jcb, thanks for bringing this up. The email you reference above was a new experiment for the fundraising team; because iDEAL donations in the Netherlands are prone to fail for reasons out of the donor's control, we wanted to try sending a reminder email to donors whose donations did fail. Unfortunately, there seems to have been an error in our filtering scan, and some donors donated successfully on their second attempt were messaged. We are doing our best to contact each of these donors and apologize for the oversight, and are using the lessons from this experience to reevaluate sending similar messages in the future. I apologize for the confusion caused! Please assign all similar tickets to the wm-donations queue in OTRS and we will respond. --CCogdill (WMF) (talk) 17:53, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Apart from the filter, I recommend that a NL-native rewrites the message. Donors are alarmed especially by the poor language. (btw iDEAL is known to be very reliable. I never heard anybody about failed transactions. In the Netherlands most people use it for their online shopping, instead of credit cards.) Jcb (talk) 22:17, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback. We had a Dutch native proofread the text, but we usually have two proofreaders and should have stuck to that process. We are using the feedback from this email to improve our future emails!--CCogdill (WMF) (talk) 23:49, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Serbo-Croatian wiki[edit]

Guys, you must close Serbo-Croatian wikipedia! What's the sense to keep this project in a hybrid artificial language? They just write the same text in cyrillic and latin alphabets. If exists two different wikis: Serbian and Croatian, why we need another project in a combination of those 2 languages? Why to not create then a Italiano-French wikipedia? Probably this case is somehow similar with case of Moldovan wikipedia, where people began write Romanian text in cyrillic alphabet. But Serbo-Croatian wiki is more crazy they write in two different alphabets on the same wiki )) Menus are in both alphabets, but wiki-content are in one of the languages (scripts).

Just look here

and i noticed they are mass-importing articles from both other wikis: Serbian and Croatian. In past week this wiki growed up consistently with about 15,000 articles.

And, also, they are doing just they want: one of their admins runs a robot on his main account and creates a lot of articles as humna-user but running bot. In particullary he created few thousands of articles about Itallian communes (example).

I want to mention again - on the same wiki they have a part of articles written in latin script, and another part in cyrillic. So, some people, will not understood a part of articles written in stranger script. I can't find the sense to keep alive this wiki.

It's a madness!

I don't want to live on this planet anymore! -- 22:44, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

See Closing projects policy. --Eurodyne (talk) 22:47, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. I initiated a proposal: Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia. -- 14:57, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Have Wikipedia Book removed support to epub and zim file format? (only)[edit]

I tried to download a book in zim and epub.

For example:

If we click Select format to download: ZIM or EPUB, then at the end there is an error message "Cannot render: Zim writter not found" or something like that.

Please fix this bug.

Sadly, it's not considered a bug, it was an intentional decision by the Wikimedia Foundation: [Wikitech-ambassadors] Changes to PDF export; ZIM/EPUB will be disabled soon.
There doesn't seem to be a way to change their mind (other than volunteering programming skills and time, if you have). But everyone can help the book tool by joining the Bug day: Book tool/Collection/PDF, 2014-10-08, 14–22 UTC. --Nemo 10:18, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
(Just adding another couple of relevant links, [1] and [2]. Best, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 17:43, 6 October 2014 (UTC) )


I'd like to know how (and if appropriate) a request for comments regarding how the checkuser information is actually handled and how it complies to the WMF privacy policies and guidelines. Best regards --Discasto (talk) 14:42, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Is this a wiki specific RFC or a general one? Ruslik (talk) 19:17, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Although the issue was brought to my attention by a former checkuser in the Spanish Wikipedia, it seems to be a general issue: the fact that, apparently, the WMF provides the means for the bleach of its own policy guidelines. --Discasto (talk) 08:41, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

If you have particular questions I am probably a good place to start. You can either drop me a note on my talk page here on meta, or email me at Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 06:38, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Ip range is blackliste (open proxy:webhosting)[edit]


One of our customers is complaining that one of his /24 is blacklisted due to forum spam. The problem is that our customer is an ISP ( and not a hoster. can you please delist What can we do to prevent this in the future.

And i hope this is the right place to post this beacuse i didn't found any delist possibility.

Best regards,

Ben Gerson root S.A. unsigned comment by Rootlu (talk) 09:11, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

@Rootlu: I don't see a block for Special:GlobalBlock/, so you will need to come back to us with the exact block message, including who and the IP being blocked. Usually we would deal with unblock requests at Steward requests/Global or you can email stewards at  — billinghurst sDrewth 12:46, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

German OTRS permission tickets[edit]

It seems that due to the recent Mediaviewer/superprotect gate, several or maybe all active DE-N volunteers at OTRS stopped responding to tickets. Currently there are 380 open tickets in the German permission queues (permissions-de / permissions-commons-de). Does the WMF have any ideas on how to get sufficient German activity back in OTRS? Jcb (talk) 19:39, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Maybe Mr. Möller would be a good replacement. Would teach him maybe also to be again humble towards the volunters, what would be a great extra ... --Julius1990 (talk) 00:01, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Wow, thank you for this very constructive message. Anyways. I think this discussion should be held on OTRS wiki so the OTRS admins can see if it is appropriate to (temporarily) close some of these queues until the matter has been resolved and avoid any further "packing" of the permissions queues. Elfix 13:45, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
I do not see how closure of the queues would be helpful. If we close them, the general queue will be flooded with messages in German and we will have nowhere to store them separately. However if the backlog of the general queue is within reasonable limits, I will see if I can handle some with my DE-1 skills. I think there is only one direction in which we have to find the resolution: We need active OTRS volunteers with DE skills. The reason I posted this message here, is that IMHO the WMF has caused this problem with the way they enforced the introduction of the Mediaviewer. And yes, this is an issue for OTRS volunteers, because that annoying Mediaviewer is slowing down our work significantly. Turning it off for our personal accounts solves only part of the problem, because a lot of clients send hyperlinks to Mediaviewer windows. Jcb (talk) 15:07, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
If you can, then take care of them. Otherwise, let's not let people continue to expect a response any time soon there: better direct them to the English-speaking queues (for permissions-commons-de at least), for example... Elfix 16:20, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Closing the queues is never something we would want to do because of backlogs. The admins (and the agents) are aware of the backlogs (and believe it or not - this is not the worst we've ever seen; though it is more elevated than average, of course) and are always looking for ways to expand recruiting efforts. So I would suggest that the discussion should be based on improving the response times rather than "closing queues". Rjd0060 (talk) 16:22, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, of course, if you feel like getting some volunteers on these queues, do it. But if you don't... perhaps you should consider something which will be less of a waste of time for the volunteers, like temporarily closing the queue. Because over time, all the files without the proper OTRS permissions will eventually get deleted on commons. And getting them restored can be quite a bit of a headache for the poor volunteer who isn't a sysop on Commons. Elfix 14:48, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Closing the queues will not solve the problem as noted above. Suggesting not to write in German will do. But who would ask OFFICIALLY on German language projects NOT to send permissions and NOT ask questions in German, but use English / French / Italian / Polish / Russian instead? Ankry (talk) 16:04, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
We do feel like finding more agents. It is our job. ;-) We will never close a queue simply because of backlogs. Hope I've made that point clear. Rjd0060 (talk) 16:05, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Good. Good luck with that, then :) Elfix 19:25, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Isn't this more an issue for the German-language communities for how they wish to deal with their permissions? In online communities there will always be rises and falls in participation, and there will be (unfortunate) upsets. So time to stop pushing blame, and to look to solutions; and saying that the solution lies with other parties isn't going to be productive, nor owned by the community, and the solution does lie within the community.  — billinghurst sDrewth 22:42, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
@Elfix: if you need a file to be (temp-)undeleted at Commons you can just ping an admin at IRC or ask for undeletion at Commons:Undeletions requests.... It's easy if you know what you are doing. Natuur12 (talk) 23:04, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
This still remains an avoidable waste of time (to a smaller extend, yes). Elfix 19:42, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Call for OTRS administrator applicants[edit]

The OTRS administrators are considering expanding the admin team. We invite all community members to review the call for volunteers on Meta-Wiki at OTRS/Call for administrator.

We would like to keep questions centralized, so please direct all discussion to the talk page: Talk:OTRS/Call for administrators.

On behalf of the OTRS admin team, Rjd0060 (talk) 01:42, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Terms of use[edit]

I am looking for general WMF licensing policy as it was in 2009. Terms of use history starts in 2011. Can anybody point me to the older equivalent of this file? Ankry (talk) 18:32, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

@Ankry: Here it is foundation:Terms of Use (2009).--Snaevar (talk) 18:54, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Reaching out to other online communities[edit]

Best practices and precedent I'm surprised that Outreach and Meta don't seem to have any guidelines on working with other online communities. The best I see is OpenStreetMap but that's a little moribund and it seems like there isn't much precedent in connecting with other online communities. Am I missing something? —Justin (koavf)TCM 05:58, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

What sort of initiative and documentation thereof are you looking for? Typically, such connections arise, unplanned, from people who are active in both groups: there are more such connections than one can count. The cooperation between OpenStreetMap and Wikimedia is not moribund at all, in fact Wikimedia Italia will soon become the OSM-IT chapter. --Nemo 07:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Free communities Maybe mass importing media to/from Flickr's commons to Wikimedia Commons or encouraging reciprocal links with DMOZ or collaborating with Distributed Proofreaders and Wikisource users to make texts together and work on software and interfaces for proofreading... These all immediately come to mind. —Justin (koavf)TCM 07:43, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes, all these have been done. --Nemo 07:45, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Best practices Do you know of best practices, outcomes, data, etc.? This answer isn't really that helpful. —Justin (koavf)TCM 08:43, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
"Best practices" assumes reproducibility. Are you trying to reproduce something? c:Commons:Flickr files is easy to find; PGDP is mentioned in countless discussions which you can certainly find on your own; DMOZ is dead anyway. --Nemo 08:58, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: Well, I actually had in mind precisely those ideas. Working with OmegaWiki to port over data from it, etc. Finding other MediaWiki wikis and seeing what extensions or modifications they have. DMOZ is not dead: it's got updates constantly. It has a lot of problems but it's not dead. —Justin (koavf)TCM 03:25, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

I see your point and I think that there are good opportunities for collaborating with other communities - both to proactively provide our content and for working with them to use their content. It may be difficult to have a reproducible framework, but guidelines or advice from previous engagements would be useful. Surely there must be some people here who worked on the examples already mentioned who could contribute some thoughts? QuiteUnusual (talk) 08:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Ahem, how to work with OmegaWiki is a discussion which never stopped in 10 years: see Category:Ultimate Wiktionary etc. etc. "Finding other MediaWiki wikis": very important indeed, we've been doing this on a daily basis for years now; most of us are active at WikiApiary, you can for instance dive in the latest import and/or join WikiTeam in preserving some more wikis.
In case my point is not clear, I'm saying that to do stuff with other wikis and communities you must first and foremost get your hands dirty with them. When something gets done, that something survives and conveys the message for you. --Nemo 09:39, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: Your point is well taken but I'm not sure that I'm making myself clear: it seems like you're taking individual examples that I've provided as the entirety of what I'm getting at here. There are many open content communities and digital communities with whom we can collaborate. There is a structured and more-or-less empirical approach to outreach efforts with GLAM and the Education Project to interact with all sorts of public and private educational and cultural institutions but not digital ones. Right? —Justin (koavf)TCM 06:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Yours is a false dichotomy. One could as well say that there are collaborations with non-profits hence we should do more with for-profits too, or that there are collaborations with software companies hence we should do more with non-software companies. GLAM stuff exists as an effort because the name itself defines some features of possible partners, and the concept contains some ideas of things to do together. This is what your "proposal" is lacking.
In fact it's not even a proposal or idea, you've just stacked a collection of random unrelated examples, a new one at every message... and then you "blame" me for not seeing a supposed "entirety" which in fact is missing. Saying "let's do something with other online communities" is more or less as generic as saying "let's do something with companies which have a computer in their office" or "let's do something with non-profits which have a website". In fact your title could just have been "Reaching out" or "let's do something" and it wouldn't have been significantly more generic than it is currently.
So, again, you need at least one unifying and descriptive idea of what sort of collaboration or goal you imagine, ideally explained by example. My impression is that you first need to get a clearer picture of what sort of communities exist around, so I suggested that you give a look to WikiApiary; if you want an even broader spectrum, you can look at the Category:Proposed projects for a list of things that others are doing (or not) and someone thought we should (help) do... --Nemo 10:31, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
@Nemo bis: Maybe I'm misreading you or maybe this is a language barrier issue but I get the sense that you're being hostile to me and reading things into what I'm saying that don't exist. You're right: this isn't a proposal; it's a question. I asked it in a pretty straight-forward manner and all you've done is be critical and dismissive of me. In fact, I'm not sure why you keep on responding and I hope that someone else does as well. I know that WikiApiary and WikiTeam and WikiIndex and MeatBall exist. —Justin (koavf)TCM 16:50, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry that's the impression you got. What you're sensing is my sincere frustration for a question which, in this form, I find impossible to answer (properly). --Nemo 19:48, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Quiddity is on the right track. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:57, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I think Koavf is looking for a link-hub of existing relationships (and desired future-relationships), and/or, a set of tips and form-letters for initiating such things (? That would be good to clarify). One thing I found (by searching for EOL/Encyclopedia of Life), is this comment by Sj at Talk:Wikimedia affiliation models/Movement Partners, which has a short list of movement partners. There's also Wikimedian in Residence on Open Science/Reusing Open Access materials and the newer en:Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library/Resources. Plus User:Alecmconroy/List of Potential Wikimedia Movement Partners and Cooperation. Searching the linked pages (I didn't dig very far) and pinging some of the contributors to those pages/discussions, might help. Sadly s:Help:Project Gutenberg is empty and the talkpage doesn't have much - is there anything better? [Side-note that outdated-documentation can be a sign of inactivity, but, it can also be a sign that everyone is busy working on the details/content of the endeavour and are procrastinating the abstract documentation! (I believe Openstreeetmap is a case of this, because there were 3 OSM-related presentations at Wikimania 2014, and a few other proposals)]. HTH. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 19:36, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

@Quiddity (WMF): This is exactly what I was going for, thanks. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:57, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Results from meeting of OTRS admins[edit]

Hi all,

I would like to point you to our report on the recent meeting of the OTRS administrators which you can find here. If you have any questions, feel free to ask—we'll be happy to help. Best, — Pajz (talk) 11:06, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Romanian Wikisource[edit]

Hello, I am administrator at the Romanian Wikipedia, and I am here to seek advice: we have blocked an user (BAICAN XXX) from Romanian Wikipedia, and this has migrated to the Romanian Wikisource where he started a campaign of creating non sense pages, as can be seen here. Considering that the Romanian Wikisource doesn't have an active administrator at the moment, a discussion has started at Romanian Wikipedia's Forum (ro:Wikipedia:Cafenea#Wikisource în limba română se degradează repede. Cum procedăm?) about what shall be done to stop this situation? The discussion is conveying towards the conclusion that the Romanian Wikipedia's administrators to be granted with sysops rights to all sister projects. The reason why the discussion was extended to all Romanian projects is due to the suspicion that as soon as we'll block BAICAN XXX on Wikisource this will migrate to other wiki project lacking in active administrators. Could you please provide your thoughts on this situation? Thanks and regards, Silenzio76 (talk) 02:51, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

You can request assistance by stewards and GS. (SRM, VR) --Glaisher (talk) 05:02, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks. I have placed my message at SRM. Silenzio76 (talk) 11:08, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
I see this discussion and I think it has to be stated by a Romanian native speaker that are no nonsense pages like those mentioned by user Silenzio who is trying to present his personal opinions as fact. Also are some aspects which are omitted by the admin who has made this notification. The block of user Baican has been done abusively on grounds of opinion differences between Baican and Silienzio, this being a serious abuse from an admin to find alleged reasons to block a user with whom he had disagreements. This is a personal vendetta of user Silenzio whose main undeclared goal in his candidacy to an admin approximately a year ago was to block Baican on alleged mistakes which he persistently looked for and reproached them to Baican as grounds for long time block.-- 10:09, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment Comment Romanian Wikisource is an independent community, and as such it appoints its own administrators, which be the same as the other sister sites. As such roWP admins would not be granted rights at sister wikis based on them being admins at roWP, only through local processes at each of the wikis.  — billinghurst sDrewth 12:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Billinghurst, in theory, you're right and I completely understand your concern and reluctance to take steps that might overrule a local community. In reality, there is no Romanian Wikisource community. The only recently active people on the Romanian Wikisource are a few Wikipedians, such as w:ro:User:XXN and w:ro:User:GEO. And, of course, our sockpuppet master, BAICAN XXX. Actually, they are the only ones who noticed BAICAN's actions. Luckily, so far, did not face too much vandalism, and did not require too much administrative attention. It wasn't obvious, for instance, that of the three sysops, one has been inactive for three years, one for a year and a half, and the most active one has last been seen with a single edit in July and has performed the last sysop action when he deleted a page in March. Now, this lack of attention is becoming a bit of a problem.Andrei Stroe (talk) 15:36, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Right in theory and right in practice. Administrators at roWS will be appointed based on request and activity, not on whether they are administrators at roWP. If there are concerns among roWS participants about the lack of activity of the current administrators, or the need for more administrators, then processes exist in that space for interested parties to take and express an interest in that role. Stewards and global sysops can act in lieu of local administrators where issues exist, and they are flagged. This is how the broader community has defined that stewards shall act on communities, irrespective of the language and the sister, and until there is a policy change.

So in summary, if there are concerns at roWS, then discussions should take place there and the solutions decided there, not at roWP. If the local administration is unable or unavailable to implement that community's decision, then stewards will implement for them.  — billinghurst sDrewth 22:47, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Billinghurst is correct. Also, if anyone over at is worried about this, then they could probably elect one or more of themselves as admins there. 16:43, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Logging problemens with my global account[edit]

Hi, I have a global account as User:Salix but still encounter two problems to solve :

  1. From one Wikipedia to another, the global account is working, but I am sometimes asked to log in. When I clic on "log in" three times (eg. from fr.Wikipedia to Commons or Metawiki), my user account is switched on automaticaly at last, but it doesn't work everywhere (eg. from fr.Wikipedia to Wikidata or Mediawiki). Is it normal ?
  2. As I registered a long time ago, users of a few languages are using the same name, but do not seems to contribute anymore. I have usurpated the english one, but have no idea how to ask for the same process in other remaining Wikipedia langages. Does an admin could help me please ? --Salix (talk) 12:57, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello Salix,
  1. This is not a normal experience that I'm aware of. What browser and operating system are you using? Do you have cookies enabled?
  2. The bad news is that if the accounts that you do not own have made any edits, the accounts are currently stuck at that name as we work on SUL finalisation. All local renaming has been turned off and all rename requests are now handled here on Meta. Unfortunately, there is still no agreed upon global usurpation policy, or if there even should be one. The good news is that work toward single-user login finalization continues, and when it is completed at some point early-ish next year you will likely "own" the name Salix in finalization and the other accounts that are not you would be automatically renamed at that time :) So we wait...
In the mean time, if there are accounts that are not you that have zero edits, you can visit this page and request to have the name. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 17:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your help Keegan (WMF). It may be a cookies problem as my Firefox is erasing all of them when I close it. Concerning the global account, I will check ringht now how many edits other users did. --Salix (talk) 20:10, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Will the WMF help save the English Wikipedia by changing the RFA process?[edit]

Over at the English Wikipedia there is once again discussions about changing the RFA process and once again people are arguing that the WMF will not allow changes. The RFA process is dying out folks, it needs to change if Wikipedia is going to survive. Last month was the second time there have been zero admins selected (the first was last September) and it looks like this month will be the third time. Additionally the project is losing admins at a rate much faster than can be replaced and the workload that remains is both increasing and causing the existing admins to become more stressed and more abusive to regular editors. Only one admin was selected in June, July and August of this year and none have been selected since. After multiple attempts over the last several years have failed, its pretty clear that any changes to the RFA process are going to need to come from the WMF. Is the WMF willing to accept that challenge and help save the English Wikipedia before its too late? Its pretty clear at this point that the community lacks the ability to do it themslves without intervention from the WMF. Reguyla (talk) 18:38, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Do Wikipedians understand the license under which they publish their work?[edit]

At least, not all of them. I've opened an RfC to discuss this: Requests for comment/Wikipedians and the CC-BY-SA license. Elfix 19:20, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Suggested change to Special:Watchlist[edit]

I propose that on the watchlist, under the line for selecting a namespace, their is a box that can be ticked so that only unveiwed changes appear. - NickGibson3900 (talk) 23:56, 22 October 2014 (UTC)