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The Wikimedia Forum is a central place for questions and discussions about the Wikimedia Foundation and its projects. (For discussion about the Meta wiki, see Meta:Babel.)
This is not the place to make technical queries regarding the MediaWiki software; please ask such questions at the MediaWiki support desk; technical questions about Wikimedia wikis, however, can be placed on Tech page.

You can reply to a topic by clicking the "[edit]" link beside that section, or you can start a new discussion.
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Change in renaming process[edit]

Part or all of this message may be in English. Please help translate if possible.

-- User:Keegan (WMF) (talk) 9. sep 2014, 18:22 (CEST)

On the three revert rule in the english wikipedia[edit]

"Being "right" is not an exception to the three-revert rule, and claiming that your version is the "better" version is not a reason that will get you unblocked." - WHAT

This is a huge flaw that is currently being exploited by a russian admin and several russian editors in the article. Please see the history or just take one look at the article to see a clear lack of neutral point of view.

The russian admin there (Ymblanter) is abusing his powers by precisely using the rules to block non-russian editors, while excluding the pro-russian propoganda edits from the rules. In other words, he's cherry picking based on his own pro-russian bias.

All of that makes me mad as hell. Especially that wikipedia is made so people who follow the rules, but have no good faith or understanding of NPOV can attain admin status unsigned comment by (talk) 19:01, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

You were blocked for edit warring. It's just like they said, being right doesn't give you the right to edit war. Grow up, grow a pair and maybe you'll be ready to edit with the big boys. Necromonger Wekeepwhatwekill 21:18, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
3RR is a bright line. It does not actually require a block, because in the case of a new editor, a warning can be much more effective. But the real place to stop an edit war is before it starts - at 1RR. The best thing to do if someone reverts your good edit, is to take it to the talk page and find out why they were opposed to the edit. Sometimes you can make your edit more clear in the edit summary - it might just have been reverted because it just looked like an uninformed edit by an IPUser, when in fact it was a good edit warranted by a change in the world that needed to be reflected in the article. Everything needs to be supported by Reliable Sources, though, so without a source it is less likely for the edit to be retained. But use the BRD cycle - Bold edit, Reverted, Discuss it before going to even 1RR revert. Or if you had already reverted someone, avoid going to 2RR. Edit wars are very counterproductive, and do not allow for the collaborative editing that is required. Apteva (talk) 20:36, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia can develop a new world language[edit]

In addition to Wikipedia's language segregated databases, we also need a single Wikipedia database that allows every language group to participate. Editors should be encouraged to create and edit articles using words from as many languages as they know. This will help to develop a new world language as editors and readers work together to includes words from various languages into a common articles.

Language is meant to evolve and change as people mix and migrate to new places, but the internet (and particularly Wikipedia) is preventing this intermeshing of languages by segregating databases by language. The solution is to create a database where languages can mix and mesh. Waters.Justin (talk) 21:32, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

I propose we call the language that develops out of this project, Wikipedia. ;) Waters.Justin (talk) 21:39, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
Maybe something like Wikidata or A proposal towards a multilingual Wikipedia which is language-neutral could work, but Wikimedia (and Wikipedia) should not try to make another Esperanto, Lojban, or Klingon. PiRSquared17 (talk) 21:46, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
What I am proposing is different than A proposal towards a multilingual Wikipedia because I am proposing for articles to not be translated into another language. The idea is that people who edit and read the page will begin to learn new words and phrases from a variety of languages. English is a mixture of French, German, and Latin. It is possible that a new online language that is a mixture of a variety of languages could develop as editors establish a preference for words in some languages over others. In the Talk pages editors could negotiate what languages to use for different words, and the language used could evolve as the Wikipedia database grows. This would not be like Esperanto, Lojban, or Kingon because it would not be a language with fixed rules and perimeters; it would be an evolving language made of all the world's languages. Learning words from all the world's languages has a greater benefit than learning Kilingon, so editors and readers will have a greater incentive to participate. The only problem I see is that not all languages use Latin characters and some languages start from the right side of the page. I think these differences are minor and can be part of this world language experiment. This would develop into a Wikipedia pidgin language Waters.Justin (talk) 03:18, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
How does creating a conlang (even if it is a 'living' or 'evolving' one) help to fulfill Wikimedia's mission: to spread knowledge? If anything, it would just make it harder, since readers would have to learn another language (if I understand you correctly). Esperanto and Lojban already tried to do what you're proposing to some extent. They use words from a mixture of other languages. Esperanto does have a fixed grammar, but it can have new words. I'm not sure what you mean by a language without fixed rules; it needs to have at least some grammar. I just don't see the point. Adding new words to existing languages makes sense, but creating a new one from talk page comments does not (to me, at least). Besides [since you keep referencing Wikipedia instead of Wikimedia] original research is forbidden. I doubt it would ever be taken seriously by non-Wikipedians. If you were to attempt something like this, you'd probably transliterate everything to one script (e.g. Latin), so the writing system and directionality of the original languages wouldn't matter. By the way, even though English is Germanic, it did not come from what we call "German" per se (it's a descendent of Old English, whereas German came from Old High German). I'm not sure if you're trying to reference the Middle English creole hypothesis though. PiRSquared17 (talk) 05:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
In other words: Assuming Wikipedia can develop a new world language, why should it? And creating a new world language reminds me of this comic. PiRSquared17 (talk) 05:11, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
The purpose of Wikipedia is to spread knowledge, and one of the greatest obstacles to sharing knowledge is the language barrier. If Wikipedia can find a way past the World's language barrier it will fulfill its purpose and create a new network or language of knowledge that may one day transcend past the Wikimedia experience. Does Wikimedia want its legacy to be the segregation of knowledge based on language or does Wikimedia want its legacy to be that it took every effort possible to transcend the language barrier to share knowledge? Waters.Justin (talk) 18:15, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
The problem is an important one. We can probably all agree on that. It doesn't follow that a certain strategy will help solve the problem. Inventing a new language to help with translation merely creates yet another language to try to translate into and out of. Esperanto seems to be about as successful as one can expect an international auxilliary language to be; but from what I hear, it doesn't solve the problem of translating between languages. I'm told you can translate great literature from many languages into Esperanto without much loss of nuance, Esperanto readers can read it in Esperanto with full impact, and it can be translated back into its original language and be pretty much what it started as — but if you translate it from Esperanto into some other natural language, something is lost. --Pi zero (talk) 20:22, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
My hope is that this language project will add words from other languages to the English language and other languages. This multilingual Wikipedia database can be the flower that seeds the world with words from many languages. In other words, the primary goal of this project is not to create a new world language, but to create a project that will allow the flow of new words into other languages. Translating in and out of the Wikipigin language would not be an issue because the primary goal of the project is to seed the world with new words and create a forum where language can coevolve unrestrained by language segregation and the fixed rules of grammar. People like puzzles and many people half know a language, so writing by mixing languages would be fun to a lot of people. Waters.Justin (talk) 17:38, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
I like this idea, but I feel like it is perhaps too ambitious; and a similar project is underway, otherwise known as English. English has become such an international language in large part because it is a common sewer of languages, fairly readily accepting loanwords from many sources. We've had a Simple English Wiki and novelty Wikis in everything from Volapuk to Klingon -- maybe it's time to have one where people work out a new English orthography that is vastly simplified and phonetic, while simultaneously exploring ways to simplify the language and even its grammar... though the latter is a bit difficult, since you can already verb just about anything, for example. :) Also perhaps to regularize the language and encourage the full range of logical correlates of every word (line seed and flaxen cloth; perhaps have both floors and TV ratings sweeped). Wnt (talk) 15:00, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
On the peculiar character of English, the quote that comes to mind (well known in some circles) is
We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. — James D. Nicoll
Trying to standardize English orthography is one of those things that sounds (irony there) like a good idea until you try to do it. Another occasion to cite this comic (which someone also cited above). --Pi zero (talk) 17:21, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that directly applies, so long as the new orthography is used by itself rather than for a subset of words. Really, I'd like to see it start all the way back with the alphabet - is there a way to research the most distinctive possible set of letters to accelerate reading and writing as much as possible? Wnt (talk) 18:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
  • The fundamental flaw in this proposal is that Wikipedia does not create the world, Wikipedia describes the world. If someone in reading 200 languages comes up with a 201st language, and it becomes popular, Wikipedia will simply create a new wiki for it. Languages are created and evolve all the time, so there is nothing new about the process, but our responsibility is to report those changes, not create them. What I would like to propose instead, though, is to create articles on meta-wiki (here) that are translated into all languages, using the drop down box at the left, instead of clicking an interwiki link. All articles would need to have a uniform structure in every language, and could display a box saying "translation pending" for every section that has not been translated yet. I would strongly suggest avoiding a language block at the top of each page, as that is not the easiest way to get from one language to another, and I also would strongly suggest restricting the number of articles to roughly the 500,000 most important ones for every encyclopedia to have, instead of just allowing anyone to create any Pokemon article they wanted (make a list of proposed articles, similar to the manner we propose featuring an image or article on the main page). In kicking off this project, I would suggest creating an article about every country of the world. All articles in this meta wiki would have the same content and depth in every language, instead of some being stubs and some having 200,000 bytes, which is what we have today. By limiting the number of articles we can focus our work on articles one at a time instead. Apteva (talk) 21:06, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
    That's not really what Meta-Wiki is for, but you could create an example page if you wanted to show what you mean. PiRSquared17 (talk) 21:14, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
True, this is off topic for a Wikipedia, but I would like to see the WMF sponsor a broader range of small creative projects. Really, this is a special case of what I'd like to see, a "Wikidea" where people try to collectively develop free inventions. For people who aren't willing to spend thousands on a license to be sued, aka patent, there are few options for proposing ideas; it's amazing what kind of scam artists prey on the public. This would be one such item for such a hypothetical project. Wnt (talk) 04:12, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
In Lila's keynote at Wikimania she said (in flowery words) that the non-Wikipedian sisters don't matter. But, if you're willing to treat the Foundation as the obstacle-best-ignored that it aspires to be, there's Wikiversity. --Pi zero (talk) 11:37, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I really don't keep track of what any would-be leaders are up to; though it is clear that if a language project were ever to succeed it would take some leader, a committed individual willing to really put in the effort to try to get the fire kindled in the first place. Certainly I hope that WMF doesn't start eating its young though; if they contribute little they also cost little, and they provide a nebula of useful cover. I mean, if Fox News starts complaining that the Arabic wiki has an article on RDX, it wouldn't hurt if we can say our Klingon wiki has an article on photon torpedoes. Wnt (talk) 12:09, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Community Liaison job openings at WMF[edit]

Hello! There are currently 2 job openings, and I thought someone here might be interested. Specifically:

  • Community Liaison - this position will initially focus on working with the Flow team and also with the Editing (VisualEditor) team, mostly at non-English wikis; however, a lot of smaller or short-term tasks continually come up, so the WMF is particularly looking for someone who is adaptable, and with diverse interests.
  • Community Liaison (Part time contract) - this part-time position will primarily focus on working with the Mobile teams, as the link explains.

If you need further information, feel free to send an email to (but do not use this address to apply). Please pass it along, if you know someone who might be interested or a good fit for the Community Engagement team. Thanks! Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 18:28, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

New Wikipedia "look alike" - is it connected with this wiki?[edit]

Recently I came across a page with all the appearance of a wikipedia page, with one exception. Instead of the normal WIKIPEDIA logo in the upper left corner, there was a representation of the human brain. My recollection is that this site was called "Rational Wiki", but I'm not sure of this.

The content was much more casual then normal WIKI prose, including some humor. I'd like to look again for this site, but I must have something wrong in my memory of it, as I cannot find it again.

Does anyone know of this site, and is able to give me its URL? Many thanks if you can.

George Sweeney

@Gsweeney: Hi George. The site is indeed called RationalWiki ( It looks the same because uses the same free/open-source software which was originally created for Wikipedia (MediaWiki), but it is not associated with Wikipedia or Wikimedia at all. Wikipedia does have some sister projects however (see for a list), but RationalWiki is not one of them (neither are the unrelated sites Wikileaks and Wikia, FYI). I think RationalWiki was created as a more secular/progressive response to the conservative wiki Conservapedia, see here. PiRSquared17 (talk) 05:27, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Hello, PiRSquared17! It is I, Ellie Oink. I hope all is well with you as winter approaches. @Gsweeney: You might run across yet other sites using MediaWiki software, with somewhat similar appearing puzzle globe logos. When you have more than a cursory look at the logo, you'll notice that they are distinctly different. I saw Encyclopedia Dramatica, and a very sweet Polish language culture and humor website that used MediaWiki and what looked like a golden egg instead of our puzzle logo. PirSqr17, I noticed this too today, regarding expanding license/ usage of Wikimedia logos, which I thought was exciting! --FeralOink (talk) 18:52, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

New PlaceBook Wiki Project Proposal[edit]

I've just created a new project proposal that I'd really welcome any feedback on.

I recognise that the overall aims are ambitious in scope, but it is all definitely achievable with current web-based technologies, so it's more a question of ascertaining whether there would be sufficient willing and enthusiasm out there to give the idea wings. Obviously, comments favourable and unfavourable would all help to gauge this, so thanks in advance.

History or timeline of WikiMedia Projects[edit]

Is there a timeline of when Wikimedia projects have been started and ended? This is mainly an issue of curiosity for me. I noticed that the number of wikis listed on List_of_Wikipedias has recently changed from 287 to 288, and was wondering what got added. Obviously the same question exists for the other project types as well. Thanks. Rwessel (talk) 08:54, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

See Incubator:Incubator:Site_creation_log. Ruslik (talk) 11:38, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Just what I was interested in. Rwessel (talk) 06:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Greek wikipedia duplicate articles[edit]

Anyone know how to let the Greek wikipedia know that they have duplicate articles? Νταν Μ. Κνούντσεν and Νταν Μάικλ Κνούντσεν. --Bamyers99 (talk) 20:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I added a merge template. --Stryn (talk) 21:54, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Fundraising banner[edit]


First, sorry for my english (feel free to correct my message). For information, the french community considers the CentralNotice banner used for fundraising as problematic: it doesn't reach the two first goals listed on CentralNotice/Usage guidelines:

  • "Be as unobtrusive as possible."
  • "Be as narrowly tailored as necessary."

All feedbacks we have (on OTRS, Village pump, Newcommers forum, through our real life colleagues or family...) are very negative about the fundraising popub, which is very intrusive, not very well translated and looking like Phishing. In our view, it's counterproductive.

The French community is unanimous about this, as you can see on this community vote, and asks to go back to the classic banner used the last years.

Best regards, Jules78120 (talk) 21:54, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done This issue has been resolved .I have notice Fundraising team. See here .Regards --Grind24 (talk) 22:17, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Not sure it "has been resolved": [1]. But thanks. Jules78120 (talk) 23:15, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Hm. Some examples (not clear which were used widely; I wish there were public updates on fundraising activity):

How to interpret (definition)? --Nemo 13:30, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

In the meanwhile I removed some "promises"/statements, contained in Fundraising, which were apparently superseded.[2] --Nemo 13:07, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Update on this: please see Lila's post to wikimedia-l. We will not be using the 'pop-up' banners in our upcoming fundraising campaigns. Peter Coombe (Wikimedia Foundation) (talk) 19:18, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Local administrators should be able to view Commons deleted file history[edit]

Regularly, Commons deletes an image that is used on a local project and conforms to the local project's image inclusion criteria, which are almost always more inclusive than commons. So it's worth retrieving the image for the local project, but the hassle of having to make the request at Commons, the processing time, the language barrier, the impracticality of the transfer, etc, means that local contributors are dissuaded from doing so. Therefore, the local administrators should be able to view the commons file deleted history, and description as well, so that they can retrieve it when necessary. This shouldn't pose a policy problem since they have already been trusted to be admins on local projects (if this is really such an issue, there could be a delete option for commons admins to prevent viewing by local admins, and if this is really, really a big issue, they could be prevented from viewing previously deleted images). I do not believe that a global usergroup would solve the problem, since there are too many wikis and they would be confronted to the same problems. A global group works for the reverse situation, as in Global file deletion review, but not here since all projects would need the access, and I should note that variants of pretty much all of the issues raised for justifying this global group apply here as well. Cenarium (talk) 10:34, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Excellent idea. This has been a problem on en.wn for many years; our archive policy does not permit replacing images, and we've got some hundreds of broken image links, some unknown number of which would be admissible under our local fair-use policy if there were a tractable way to check them all (without hassling Commons admins to investigate each one for us). --Pi zero (talk) 15:28, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Should we make an RFC for this ? Cenarium (talk) 20:19, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
I do not understand why a global group won't work? Ruslik (talk) 02:42, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
I think that this proposal is about a local group (with 'viewdeletedfile' right) on Commons which will be given to all administrators on Wikimedia projects, right? -Glaisher (talk) 05:31, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes. A global group wouldn't work because then each wiki (of the hundreds of wmf wikis) will be required to have interested sysops go ask at meta for the global group to be able to use it on their wiki, and they would probably be unaware of its existence in the first place anyway. While if we give a 'viewdeletedsharedfile' userright to all local admins on all wikimedia projects, then they would be instantly aware since they would see 'view commons deleted edits ?' on each of those files, and they could use it as needed. Cenarium (talk) 18:23, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
There is only on projects with no active sysops that they would need to ask a global file deletion reviewer. Cenarium (talk) 22:04, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
This answer shows that you do not understand how userrights work in MediaWiki. A local group on commons will not be materially different from a global group (users will still need to go to the Commons and ask for this permission). In addition, on many wikis file uploads are disabled, so their sysop will not need this permission. Ruslik (talk) 08:58, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I understand the userrights just fine. It wouldn't be a local group at commons, it's the local sysops who would get the userright on their own wiki as part of their standard toolset. The implementation of this would be up to the devs, either they would extract the commons deleted history and display it on the local wiki for the sysop to see, or the sysop would be directed at commons with a token that proves they have the permission to view the deleted file. That some wikis have disabled local file upload doesn't negate the need of those with it. Cenarium (talk) 11:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Or the software would check if the user is a sysop (or has the 'viewdeletedsharedfile' userright) on any wmf wiki (or only a subset of those participating, and if a userright is used then only those wikis's sysops would be given 'viewdeletedsharedfile'). Special:CentralAuth can check usergroup on other wikis, so this can be done, the only possible issue is performance, which is why I was initially suggesting the above two methods. Cenarium (talk) 13:10, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, but this idea is dead from the beginning. Nobody is going to give a sysop from some obscure wikiproject, who was elected by only one vote (or just by zero votes), access to millions deleted files. This idea is likely to be blocked by the WMF. So, I advise you not to waste your and our time. Ruslik (talk) 16:17, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
This is why I've suggested a subset of wikis, it could be opt-in, stewards could modify the set of wikis as neeeded. Cenarium (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment Comment This should be an RFC on Commons as it relates to Commons permission rights alone, and people requesting rights for there. To note that Commons had a similar proposal in reverse that would give their administrators the rights to look at file deletions xwiki.  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:44, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    • No, the decision is certainly not for commons to make. All wikis have access to commons files, so sysops should have access to deleted versions, it's as simple as that. It's totally up to the local wikis, commons should have no more say than others on this. Especially when this is to address persistent shortcomings at commons, which repeatedly showed that it could not satisfy the needs of local communities, even though this is a very long standing widespread problem. Cenarium (talk) 07:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
      Umm, would you please reread what I said. I said that the RFC belongs at Commons, how is that wrong? Commons is made up of all of us, we can all comment, and a decision can be made from such a process. Commons does not sit in isolation, and if you are concerned that it is seeming that way, then having an RFC and pointing all xwiki community members to it (in a neutral way) is the perfect reminder to Commons of the purpose of Commons.

      With regard to where decisions about Commons are made, it is most definitely at Commons. The premise for all wikis is that decisions are made at the wiki of interest/concern.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:53, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

    No, it does not concern Commons, at all. It concerns the local wiki communities and only them. Commons provides the images, yes, but it's then entirely up to the local communities to do whatever they want with them, including letting their sysops see deleted revisions if they so desire. Whether a local wiki wants that or not is entirely up to the local wiki community and no one else, commons has no interest in this, and no say, for the same reason that commons could not prevent a local wiki from using commons images. Cenarium (talk) 01:50, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
    Files are uploaded at Commons to Commons policies, and have been deleted at Commons after following the policies and processes at Commons. How can you tell me that it doesn't involve Commons? Commons has a policy in place that does not allow deletions where the file meets Commons broad scope and is used by a sister wiki. Take your discussion to Commons, and only if/when it is not meeting needs should a broader discussion take place. There are many reasons why a file is deleted at Commons, though they will be to policy or through discussion, and should be annotated in any deletion. If Commons processes are inferior then get a proposal to fix them.  — billinghurst sDrewth 05:56, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
    Commons is involved in the file upload and in its deletion, but after a file is deleted, commons has no longer any interest in it. This isn't about commons deletion processes and there's nothing to discuss about that, it's about what comes after. And the fact is, commons does not care about that, there has been many attempts at fixing this problem over the years, but none worked. Take Commons fair use upload bot for example, well commons admins didn't bother using it even when it was specifically requested in the deletion discussion. So as I say, it involves only the local communities, commons has repeatedly demonstrated that they could not address this issue. I'm not putting blame, it's just that it's too much work and it's way too impractical with the current setup. Well, there's the solution, allow local admins to take care of this problem and everyone will be better off. Cenarium (talk) 10:56, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
    A bit of background. This problem has been going on for years and numerous attempts have been made between local wikis and commons to solve it, none succeeded in the slightest. People have even written bots for this, see Commons:Template:Fair use delete. The bot would upload the image on interested local wikis before deletion, but commons admins straight deleted anyway, even when specifically requested, so it's dead in the water. There's no point in trying again and again to have commons do something about that, when it always failed, now it's past due for the local wikis to take the matter into their own hands. Cenarium (talk) 11:36, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
    You are talking about a very specific Commons issue, and your solution is looking to give all admins access to all deleted file information irrespective of the reason for the files deletion. For that reason alone any RFC belongs on Commons. I am not saying that there is no issue, I am not saying that there are not better solutions, I am simply arguing that the RFC is a Commons issue, and that is where the solution needs to derive. Any decision is not independent of Commons.
    Re the issue, it is one of which I am well aware, and one in which I hammer on to my fellow Commons admins. Your proposed simple solution is not so simple nor effective, and the solution does need to derive at Commons.  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:57, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
    It's not primarily an issue for Commons, it's foremost an issue for the local projects. From my perspective, it is totally normal to allow local admins to see deleted commons files, since those files are in effect part of the local project too, and admins can see deleted revisions of all local project pages, so commons-based files shouldn't be an exception to this. I don't see where the controversy could be or why commons should have to approve of this. After all, commons users can comment at meta too, or even in a local project RFC.
There has been no solution coming from Commons, and to be honest I don't see what more commons could do about that, it's just too impractical to tackle on Common's end, and should be handled by the local project. This is how I envisage it, taking en.wp as an example :
  1. Commons admin deletes file used on en.wp
  2. Commons delinker bot removes file links and notes in edit summary "If you think this file can satisfy Wikipedia's own inclusion criteria, seek a w:WP:REFUND." [or the page appropriate for the local wiki]
  3. Interested editor sees this on watchlist / RC and requests at w:WP:REFUND with proper rationale.
  4. En.wp admin uploads locally with appropriate template. (Or imports it when phab:T8071 will be finally resolved, and made available for deleted commons files.)
  5. Interested editor reinserts file where appropriate, provides justification as necessary.
I think this would be pretty simple and efficient, but feel free to suggest a better solution to this problem. I'd note though that this isn't only for fair use images, commons policies can change, those modifications can greatly affect local projects, and file inclusion criteria vary a lot. Cenarium (talk) 15:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Flagged revisions[edit]

Hello Whether there is such an opportunity to include in the Kazakh wikipedia function patrol as a Russian Wikipedia?--Kaiyr (talk) 09:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

WMF has decided not to enable FlaggedRevs on any new wikis anymore. See phab:T31744#328693 --Glaisher (talk) 11:22, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm not so sure, see phab:T66726. --Stryn (talk) 12:41, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it seems - according to the discussion regarding Norwegian Wikipedia - that the WMF is (at least now, after they first said otherwise), in fact, willing to enable FlaggedRevs on new wikis if there's a clear community consensus. After all, FlaggedRevs is a real success in the German-language Wikipedia. Gestumblindi (talk) 19:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

See Flagged Revisions#Enabling for instructions. --Nemo 13:43, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Donating loses current page.[edit]

I was reading a Wikipedia page and the banner at the top suggested I donate, so I did. The donation process closed (or opened over) the Wikipedia page that I had been reading. -_- I don't mind taking a little time aside to donate some money - Wikipedia is awesome. But once I've done so, I'd like what I was reading before to still be there, please. Can the donation thing be made to launch in a new window/tab? Thanks. -- 23:01, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

That sounds nice. Could you send a mail to donate at wikimedia(dot)org making this suggestion? Regards, --Glaisher (talk) 05:34, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
I've copied the original comment over to Talk:Fundraising#Donating loses current page, for permanence and a better location. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 22:54, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Why I'm blocked?[edit]

Why I can't get to any page in cs.wikipedia and in lt.wikipedia? --Kusurija (talk) 20:47, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Could you be more specific? What happens if you try to go on those sites? Tried with other browsers / logged-out? --Stryn (talk) 21:02, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm using Mozilla firefox (now editing per Opera, because after my first (here) edit per Mozilla I couldn't read answer. In all blocked wikimedia sites I got this: The connection was reset

The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.

  • The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.
  • If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network connection.
  • If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

The same on cs.,lt.wikipedias, cs.wikibooks, but not on en.wikipedia and others. --Kusurija (talk) 21:33, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm using Mozilla firefox (now editing per Opera, because after my first (here) edit per Mozilla I couldn't read answer. In all blocked wikimedia sites I got this: The connection was reset

The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.

  • The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.
  • If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network connection.
  • If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

The same on cs.,lt.wikipedias, cs.wikibooks, but not on en.wikipedia and others. --Kusurija (talk) 21:37, 2 December 2014 (UTC) P.S. Please remove (IP adress) from history. Thank You. --Kusurija (talk) 21:37, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

The same when I tried log out. --Kusurija (talk) 21:39, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
None of those issues are related to mediawiki or settings on Wikimedia, our block messages are quite specific and different in context. Sounds like issues are closer to home either with your browser, or with your ISP.  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:42, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
??:When I closed Mozilla browser at all (fully), opened again, I could see everything when not logged. After I logged on, I was blocked as I wrote above. --Kusurija (talk) 21:50, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Sounds like a cache problem or so. What if you clear your Firefox cache, does it help? Stryn (talk) 22:46, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Either way, it is not a "block" as we define blocks at WMF. I can see that the user personally has an issue, I don't see that it is at the WMF end of proceedings. As I said, when we block, you are directly and specifically told, not some other error.  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:03, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
And blocking only prevents editing; it doesn’t cut off all access.Odysseus1479 (talk) 07:28, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Problem persists all time. Most time I can't use Opera. So as You can see, I did not edit per all wikipedias (cs. wp, lt.wp, cs.wv, cs.wikt and so on). These several edits, which I'd done, was per other than Mozilla firefox browser. That is pity for me. --Kusurija (talk) 15:43, 12 December 2014 (UTC) (Please remove IP adress again). --Kusurija (talk) 15:43, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Adopting a global child protection policy[edit]

We have a concise child protection policy that has been around as a proposed global policy for a few years. I believe that all wikis with their own policy have one that is at least this broad, and it describes the current position of the WMF. It seems appropriate to have a global policy about this.

I've started a request for comments about simplifying and adopting a global policy on the talk page. Please comment there. SJ talk  02:14, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Child protection is indeed a worthy topic which calls concrete action. I see there is a Guide to action, did you read it yet?
I propose that the WMF retweets something from regularly. --Nemo 07:38, 4 December 2014 (UTC) P.s.: [3] [4], repeated by them, seem rather effective: can we start with those? P.p.s.: [5]
@PiRSquared17: might be worth setting a multilingual message to go out through message bot.  — billinghurst sDrewth 14:15, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Nemo, I appreciate your helpful sarcasm, and I feel the reason many Wikimedians (and other online communities) care about preventing grooming and coordinated pedophilia advocacy on the projects is aligned with those UNICEF ideals - to help children avoid violence, exploitation, and abuse.
PiRSquared17, billinghurst, let's wait until there's agreement on language and framing: the policy as it stood was still too broad and ambiguous, it is being revised. My thought is the policy page should concisely describe current policy as enforced (mainly from our Terms of Use, and how that is interpreted when carrying out office actions), and how that varies across different projects. SJ talk 
@Sj, Billinghurst: sorry for my recent inactivity. Is this still needed? PiRSquared17 (talk) 19:40, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Note that this policy appears to essentially ban Islam, depending on the person's interpretation of the blessed (?) wedding of w:Aisha and whether they are willing not to commend it publicly. On English Wikipedia this is circumvented by putting the whole thing in ArbCom's lap, which then reinterprets what is written to mean whatever they want it to, and renders decisions in secret to avoid anyone knowing what that is; but here, who would interpret the global policy? Since it looks like there are votes to pass this, who would you ask to find out of Islam is allowed? Wnt (talk) 22:16, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
There is ambiguity in the language, but it has never been interpreted as you fear. Indeed, the Arabic and Farsi and Indonesian Wikipedias – all with extensive Muslim communities – use the same language in their child protection policies:
ar: المحررون الذين يحاولون استخدام ويكيبيديا لمتابعة أو تسهيل العلاقات غير الملائمة بين البالغين والأطفال، أو الذين ينادون بها على أو خارج الويكي (مثلا عن طريق الإدعاء بأن العلاقات غير الملائمة مع الأطفال غير ضارة لهم)، والذين يعتبرون أنفسهم مشتهي الأطفال (غلمانيين)، سيتم منعهم منعا دائما.
fa: کاربرانی که قصد استفاده از ویکیپدیا برای تعقیب یا تسهیل روایط نامناسب بزرگسال-کودک را داشته باشند، حامی روابط نامناسب بزرگسال-کودک باشند (مثلاً ابراز این نظر که روابط نامناسب به کودکان صدمه نمی زند)، یا خود را بچه‌خواه نشان دهند بی پایان بسته خواهند شد.
id: Penulis yang mencoba untuk menggunakan Wikipedia untuk mengejar atau memfasilitasi hubungan orang dewasa-anak yang tak pantas, yang menganjurkan hal-hal tersebut (misalnya dengan mengekspresikan pandangan bahwa hubungan yang tidak pantas tidak berbahaya bagi anak-anak), atau yang mengidentifikasi diri mereka sebagai pedofil, akan selamanya diblokir.
That said, I think the current meta proposal is clearer, with a separate section describing local policies.
Interpretation: To my knowledge global policy on these matters is interpreted by WMF staff, when problems are brought to their attention (sometimes resulting in office actions), and by local admins on wikis that have nothing like an ArbCom and must decide how to handle such issues when they arise. SJ talk  02:34, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Why we need child protection? Wikimedia has freedom of information, and this can destroy the right of everybody to have free acess to all information, which provides Wikimedia projects. Ochilov (talk) 09:27, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Ochilov, this describes how abuses are currently responded to. How can this destroy access to information? SJ talk  01:24, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Currently responded to? By whom and where, based on what policy? --Nemo 07:20, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
As I said above, by WMF staff or local ArbComs or admins, when problems are brought to their attention; after investigation, and based on the terms of use or on local policy. It happens rarely but persistently. Cases aren't widely talked about, to preserve user privacy; the ones I hear about are handled on en:wp. But for every case that results in clear evidence of abuse, there are others that are reported but are less clear. SJ talk  23:28, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

New world language[edit]

In reply to Waters.Justin

I did not want to jump into the thread with PiRSquared.and edit the conversation.

However I have a few comments about a new world language that has been developed in Montreal.

But first, stating that:

>>> a similar project is underway, otherwise known as English.
English has become such an international language in large part
because it is a common sewer of languages, fairly readily accepting
loanwords from many sources...

does not reflect the reality that "English" is not a language where everything that is expressed is rendered by a unique word.

If a human can understand that 'surname' is the true identical substitution to 'family name' in another 'flavor' of English or 'given name' is equal to first name', or 'while' is the same as 'whilst', the computer cannot.

So much for English being a coherent language.

Language flavors are introducing various words for the same purpose so a language becomes foreign to itself!

The best we can do is gather all ways to express 'the same thing' for all languages and every single word AND expression (> 1 word) and map it to an abstraction of this 'word' or rather 'concept'.

But therefore sometimes losing hues of meaning in the process - as for instance there are six words to designate 'rice' in Mandarin, 18 words to designate 'snow' in Inu language, etc. And much more depending on inflections, declensions - grammar/syntax.

In this portmanteau language, each 'smart word' as abstraction has knowledge of its lexical class (name, noun, verb, preposition, etc.) and points to contexts (namespaces) and thesauri.

It is currently used to implement global interoperability in EHRs in the USA. It allows for rule and ontology-based systems exactly as the RDF framework but expresses predicates in a different way than RDF.

Any comment, feedback, question is welcome

(not posting my name but no objection to it if required or harmless [cf privacy policy]

Per Tech/News/2014/50[edit]

These 2 Modules should update now, otherwise it'll no longer work:

above. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

WMF policy when someone wants the Wikipedia article on him/her deleted[edit]

I am one of the administrators of the Swedish language (sv) Wikipedia. Sometimes it happens that a person wants us to delete the Wikipedia entry on him/her, in most cases for what seems to be reasons of privacy.

Our policy has been not to delete articles upon request. (Some of these articles have been deleted for notability reasons, but that is another thing.)

Now the question has been raised whether our policy may be in conflict with more global WMF-policies.

Does WMF have any policy on this? What would be the typical answer from WMF if a person asked them to remove a Wikipedia article?

/NH 10:51, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Local projects manage this, as per wmf:Resolution:Biographies of living people. See how en.wp usually handles these cases. HTH, --Elitre (talk) 15:53, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. /NH 09:41, 10 December 2014 (UTC)


You should change disign here. It's really boring. Ochilov (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

How to change Account from Wikimedia to Wikibook while keeping the same username[edit]


I am an author and very new to Wiki world. A couple of days ago I signed up to Wikimedia and uploaded some information about my book. I received a message from Wikimedia that that upload was removed for it was not loaded on the right media. I found out about Wikibook. Tried to open an account there using the same username, which the name of my book, but that was not accepted for the name was being in use already.

Question = to keep my username, can I use my already made account on Wikimedia and post information about my book on Wikibook? If not, can I delete my account in Wikimedia and start all over in Wikipedia, using the same username?

Thank you in advance Pasha

Hi, you don't need to create a new account to access wikibook, just login using your old username and password (the account you created wikimedia). You can access all wikimedia wiki including wikipedia with that same username and password. While logged in, Click this link to merge your account globally. Thanks! ~ Nahid Talk 01:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Now Available (December 2014)[edit]

Hello Wikimedians!

The TWL OWL says sign up today :)

The Wikipedia Library is announcing signups today for, free, full-access accounts to published research as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials from:

Other partnerships with accounts available are listed on our partners page. Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects: sign up today!
--The Wikipedia Library Team.00:22, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

You can host and coordinate signups for a Wikipedia Library branch in your own language. Please contact Ocaasi (WMF).
This message was delivered via the Global Mass Message tool to The Wikipedia Library Global Delivery List.

De-federalizing the role of Meta policy[edit]

The discussion at Child protection has highlighted a basic philosophical issue with Meta policies where ordinary users are concerned: they largely duplicate the Terms of Use. I see no obvious reason why any policy important enough to mandate on every Wiki project would not be important enough to make part of the Terms of Use and thus advertise appropriately on each project page. Meta policies, and the discussions that determine them, don't really get much attention from ordinary users. In part of course because there's a huge issue of language; while the eventual result may get translated, there is little practical chance for non English speakers to become involved.

Now looking over the first section of Meta:Policies and guidelines, what jumps out at me is that there really is very little Meta policy that concerns the average user. Things like Oversight policy and policies on creating and deleting language projects really only affect stewards and a small number of people who are delegated power by the stewards. The only apparent exceptions are the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy which are part of the site web pages, and the more miscellaneous No open proxies, Office actions, and in extremis Global bans. Even these exist largely to prescribe stewards' behavior (such as when to permit editing through a proxy), though they imply some behavioral requirements for ordinary editors.

My feeling is that it would be clearer and more efficient to extract what is actually necessary (and no more) from these policies and explain it in the Terms of Use, then redesignate all the other 'global' policies as being policies for stewards and persons with special privileges assigned by stewards. There shouldn't be two different global level ways to ban something - either something is part of the advertised Terms of Use, or it should be up to the individual project. (I don't see why the question of allowing open proxy editing isn't left to the individual project by the way) Of course, Meta would keep its policies concerning Meta only separate from this. Wnt (talk) 22:11, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

So, do you want the legally binding clauses we force our millions editors to sign to be expanded or reduced? Cf. Talk:Terms_of_use/Archives/2011-10-11#Concerns with the present text, Talk:Terms_of_use/Archives/2011-10-06#Harassment, threat and abuse, Talk:Terms_of_use/Archives/2011-12-13#Definitions, examples, and critiques. --Nemo 22:36, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I was indeed very skeptical of the Terms of Use and saw it as a backdoor method of forcing through unwanted policies, i.e. censorship, when it was introduced. That said, the Terms (a) have not been abused and (b) they were adopted. Given a choice between one governmental mechanism by which limitations can be placed on any Wiki, or two such mechanisms, either one of which can have that effect and be enacted independently, it is better to have only one. Wnt (talk) 18:08, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
False dichotomy. The point of the terms of use is that when you sign them you're subject to M megabytes of legal obligations, with M arbitrarily large. --Nemo 19:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Translation administrator[edit]

Bueno! Can you give me the link to the translation administrator permission and tell, what are the minimum criteria and can I perform it now/or later? Thank you for your help. --Ochilov (talk) 06:08, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

WM:TA has some information about translation admins. Basically, they just mark pages for translation and do other related administrative work. You don't need it for translating pages. Unless you've been tagging pages for translation and doing other translation maintenance work, it is very unlikely to be a translation admin here. --Glaisher (talk) 16:59, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

"Help" namespace[edit]

Hi! I've got one question an possibly a request. When I translate some pages in the "Help" namespace, and translate the word "Help" itself in the /Page display title/ section, it tells me that "the namespace has been changed" and treats this section as "out of date". But from what I know, /Page display title/ doesn't affect anything exept the visual appearance. So why does it behave like this? And what should or could be done about this to solve this problem? The thing is that I always translate namespaces into their equivalents in the target language, and I never get any messages of this kind except for this one namespace. Can anyone tell me or do anything about this thing?-- Piramid ion  08:33, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I can confirm this at [6] [7]. This looks like bug phab:T41041. --Glaisher (talk) 17:17, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Hope it will be corrected soon. I just wondered whether I'm not doing anything wrong :)-- Piramid ion  21:07, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Planet Wikimedia backlogged[edit]

Please could someone attend to the backlog at Planet Wikimedia#Not yet added and Planet Wikimedia#Pending? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:51, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Not really.. two new entries were added last month and that page was not updated. (In fact, there's one from at right now). There is just one entry now which hasn't been added. I've updated that page accordingly. I could submit a patch later for the latest request. --Glaisher (talk) 17:34, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia should have a contingency plan for a total sitewide password "reboot"[edit]

I am concerned that North Koreans and other hackers emboldened by Sony's capitulation will eventually target WMF projects. I think WMF needs to have a clear, specific, workable plan now to deal with several what-ifs, beginning with: what if hackers obtain the plaintext passwords of everyone with an account on a WMF site?

I understand, of course, that multiple measures are taken to prevent that from happening and that this is the most basic task of computer security. But national level attackers may have access to backdoors in operating systems and encryption algorithms that we don't even think are possible.

I think you should work out something like:

  • WMF employees and holders of the highest level permissions who are required to be known to the WMF should give you their phone numbers -- to be stored on a piece of paper in a safe place in your office, not online! This way you can send them messages to call you, and when they do you call them back to confirm their identity and reestablish a password.
  • Though having a right to be anonymous, admins should be required to submit a "committed identity" (a hash of a unique passphrase known only to them, generated offsite). These should be posted to their user pages but also archived regularly to offline storage, i.e. flash drives, just in case your servers have been wiped out. Producing the passphrase -- securely, in the same stream in which they transmit their desired new password! -- gets them a password change.
  • Other users should be encouraged to use the committed identity mechanism, but many will need after the fact verification. People who have been reestablished should be able to interview people in live chat and ask them questions about various things they've written in the past, then give a guess whether this is the same person or not. It's not pretty, not 100%, and takes some time, but it should be good enough. Alternatively, after the initial crisis, those claiming an account should get to operate it with a provisional tag (no special privileges) which goes away if there are no rival claims in 90 days.

This isn't all that should be done - for example, you should look for a way to spin off the email contact data to some independent secure server, without being accessible from the normal servers any longer, so that when NK breaks in they can't look up the email addresses of people who have edited articles they don't like. This does mean that you wouldn't be able to see your email address in your preferences; you could only change it from there. Wnt (talk) 18:27, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you mean something like these?
--Nemo 19:01, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
@Nemo_bis, these are useful links but they're all predicated on the idea that the whole list of passwords won't be divulged to plaintext. The problem is, despite getting stung on plaintext passwords back in 2011, [8] the hacked files about Sony still included a huge list of plaintext passwords this time. [9] And this isn't the only company it's happened to. Either it is really, really hard to discipline any organization not to use plaintext passwords.... or maybe there are back doors in things people think are beyond reproach, put there by some spook outfit or another, and they really didn't have plaintext passwords that they knew of. Either way, I see some room for worry. Wnt (talk) 21:55, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
The passwords are salted and hashed in the DB, and login/account creation now uses TLS (with Perfect Forward Secrecy ensured by elliptic curve Diffie–Hellman) by default. Of course, that does not help if the WMF's unencrypted traffic is somehow intercepted, but I think it's enough to stop the majority of attackers (but probably not the NSA, for example). How paranoid do you want to be? I think requiring CUs and oversighters to have a committed identity (generated offline) makes more sense than requiring all users or even all admins to have one. Even if you require all users to have SHA-512 or some other form of proof of identification, the users could have keyloggers which send the DPRK all their passwords and inputs to MD5/SHA-1. Already MD5 has been said to be broken, and there are theoretical attacks on SHA-1 too (they may be practical for large governments in the near future). It might be only a matter of time before the other popular ones like SHA-512 are broken too. Adding committed identities couldn't hurt though, except for greatly increasing the technological barrier for admins. Requiring real names/phone numbers for all admins seems like it could work too, but would violate the privacy policy. I'd be worried about hackers accessing CU data or server logs too, not only emails. PiRSquared17 (talk) 23:00, 19 December 2014 (UTC)