IRC office hours/Office hours 2012-07-20a

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Session Start: Fri Jul 20 22:53:33 2012
Session Ident: #wikimedia-office
[22:53] * Now talking in #wikimedia-office
[22:53] * Topic is 'IRC office hours on the Article Feedback Tool -- https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours'
[22:53] * Set by Ironholds!~f@wikipedia/Ironholds on Fri Jul 20 19:56:23
[22:53] * benzband (5c8564df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.133.100.223) has joined #wikimedia-office
[22:53] #wikimedia-office url is http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
[22:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Ironholds
[22:53] <@Ironholds> benzband: is that an office hours attendee I see before me? :)
[22:54] <benzband> :) it's really late where i am
[22:54] <@Ironholds> yeah, it's 11pm over here :)
[22:54] <@Ironholds> despite the stereotype of "foundationers are all 'merkins" I'm a London boy living in Wales ;p
[22:55] <benzband> i'm irish in france
[22:55] <@Ironholds> we had one earlier aimed at Europeans but the attendence was sparce. I thought of the "uh, oops, I forgot the newsletter" bit 30 minutes in. So, headdesk.
[22:55] <benzband> :D
[22:55] <@Ironholds> benzband: northern or southern Irish? I mean, you're in france, so historically-speaking I have to try and kill you ANYWAY, but it would be nice to know if I have to do it twice or not ;p
[22:55] <benzband> i was born in the north
[22:56] <benzband> but don't let that mislead you: i'm a citizen of the south
[22:56] <@Ironholds> well then now I'm just confused! Schroedinger's Irishman!
[22:56] <benzband> he he
[22:56] <benzband> also, i received two newsletters
[22:56] <@Ironholds> oops :(
[22:57] * IShadowed (~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[22:57] * @Ironholds goes to check the list he's using
[22:57] * Dan653 (ad482a46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.72.42.70) has joined #wikimedia-office
[22:57] <benzband> @Dan653 hi
[22:57] <Dan653> hey
[22:57] <@Ironholds> benzband: y'know why? :P
[22:57] <@Ironholds> because you signed up to the newsletter twice ;p
[22:57] <benzband> why?
[22:57] <benzband> how come?
[22:58] <Dan653> hey callan
[22:58] <@Ironholds> (okay, back in ~2 minutes - gotta visit the little staffer's room)
[22:58] <benzband> (goes to check)
[22:58] <Callanecc_> hi
[22:58] <benzband> hi
[22:58] <Callanecc_> thanks for the cookie Dad (while I remember)
[22:58] <Callanecc_> Dan not Dad
[22:58] <@Ironholds> benzband: forgetfulness? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticle_Feedback_Tool%2FVersion_5&diff=500299974&oldid=500233372 and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Article_Feedback_Tool/Version_5&oldid=498636300
[22:58] <@Ironholds> hey, Callanecc_! great to see you :)
[22:58] <@Ironholds> anyway - must dash. Back ASAP.
[22:59] <benzband> i have removed one of my selves
[22:59] <Dan653> your welcome call
[23:01] * Electriccatfish2 (44c515f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.197.21.246) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:01] <Dan653> hey ecf!
[23:01] <Electriccatfish2> Hi!
[23:01] * Electriccatfish2 (44c515f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.197.21.246) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:02] <benzband> i take you are all reviewing feedback at this very instant?
[23:02] <benzband> * it ake it
[23:02] <benzband> *take (dammit!)
[23:03] <Dan653> wowwee go to bed
[23:03] * Electriccatfish2 (44c515f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.197.21.246) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:03] <Dan653> hurrah
[23:03] <Electriccatfish2> Thanks!
[23:04] <Callanecc_> and Huggling as well
[23:04] <Electriccatfish2> When does it begin?
[23:04] <Dan653> 5 minutes ago
[23:04] <Electriccatfish2> STiking as well
[23:04] <Dan653> huggle ftw
[23:05] * IShadowed_ (~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:05] <Electriccatfish2> Welcome, IShadowed!
[23:06] <Callanecc_> hear hear Dan
[23:06] <@Ironholds> back!
[23:06] <@Ironholds> Callanecc_: I want it noted that I got on IRC before you and that, therefore, you are not *always* faster than me ;p
[23:06] <Electriccatfish2> Welcome back, Ironholds/Okeyes (WMF)
[23:06] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: most people call me Oliver, but sure ;p
[23:07] <Electriccatfish2> Fine, I'll call you that.
[23:07] <@Ironholds> except for my sister, who refers to me as Olive oil. And my friend liv, who refers to me as pem. She's an odd one, liv. Anyway.
[23:07] <Callanecc_> You also had a lot more warning than I did, since you know you were organising it
[23:07] <@Ironholds> Callanecc_: denial isn't just a river in egypt ;p
[23:07] <Callanecc_> Callan is fine
[23:07] <Dan653> afk
[23:07] <Electriccatfish2> What are e/o's thoughts on Calnecc's new warning system?
[23:07] <@Ironholds> anyway! So, Fabrice likes to plot these out, have subjects to discuss, a timetable, etc. I've been editing for six years and a bit and in my experience the wheels come off any focused discussion about 2 minutes in.
[23:08] <@Ironholds> so, we'll discuss whatever you guys want to discuss. Electriccatfish2, it seems, has the first question :)
[23:08] * IShadowed_ is now known as IShadowed
[23:08] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: so everyone can find it if they're not already aware, linky?
[23:09] <Electriccatfish2> Also, a WMF staffer said something on Calnecc's page about the blocks being only for adding feedback, not also for editing
[23:09] <Electriccatfish2> links r coming
[23:10] * benzband is now known as benzband|busyate
[23:10] <Callanecc_> User:Callanecc/sandbox/AFT5
[23:10] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: thanks! *goes to look at talkpage*
[23:11] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: it looks like what said staffer meant is that the warnings shouldn't be one-strike-and-you're out, but instead level 1, level 2, so on.
[23:11] * Frood (~Frood@firefox/community/pilif12p) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:11] <Electriccatfish2> User talk:Callanecc/sandbox/AFT5
[23:11] <@Ironholds> as it happens, looks like he's in the room. StevenW, got a minute?
[23:11] <StevenW> Hey hey
[23:11] <@Ironholds> oh, wrong talkpage *headdesks*
[23:11] <@Ironholds> yo, Frood!
[23:11] <Frood> Hi Ironholds
[23:12] <@Ironholds> well, same message. StevenW, am I reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Callanecc/sandbox/AFT5#re:_User_warning_templates_for_AFT5 right?
[23:12] <Electriccatfish2> Is it possible to block from jjust adding feedback?
[23:12] <Electriccatfish2> Yes.
[23:12] <@Ironholds> personally I think that should be fine. I mean, when you look at the block policy and suchlike, it's not "abusive edits", it's "being abusive"
[23:12] * BarkingFish (~BarkingFi@openglobe/BarkingFish) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:13] <@Ironholds> and it'd be silly to have a situation where we can't block someone as long as all they do is post defamatory stuff in AFT5 or whatnot
[23:13] <StevenW> I was not sure about whether a selective block was possible, so I decided to make them generalized. If we prefer to specify the block is only for feedback, I am okay with that.
[23:13] <@Ironholds> StevenW: ahh, gotcha
[23:13] <Frood> Do you think there will ever be a group for *just* monitors, who can block them from adding feedback?
[23:13] <@Ironholds> yeah; blocking people prevents them from leaving feedback, but also prevents them doing anything else
[23:13] <StevenW> ok
[23:13] <@Ironholds> afaik blocking them just from posting feedback isn't possible
[23:13] <Electriccatfish2> Also, should they be reported to AIV
[23:14] <StevenW> In the future, that would be a great (to have selective blocking)
[23:14] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: I think AIV seems a sensible venue. Really I'd feel more comfortable having admins-who-aren't me saying that, though - I work for the enemy ;p
[23:14] <Electriccatfish2> Yes, but that would be difficult to do
[23:14] * @Ironholds hunts for an admin
[23:14] <@Ironholds> tommorris, awake?
[23:14] <tommorris> yeah
[23:14] <Callanecc_> I think that if they are blocked from feedback they would vandalise the article's instead so does it really matter
[23:15] <Electriccatfish2> Also, it would be helpful in enforcing topic bans.
[23:15] <@Ironholds> tommorris: people posting abusive feedback can be blocked. you, as an admin, think AIV would be an appropriate venue to report it?
[23:15] <tommorris> oh my, you guys still talking about AFT? ;-)
[23:15] <@Ironholds> tommorris: I've got 3 OH sessions scheduled today
[23:15] <Electriccatfish2> yup
[23:15] <tommorris> Ironholds: sure. seems reasonable.
[23:15] <@Ironholds> then 3 more next week
[23:15] <Frood> Well, then it should be added to Twinkle as a reason, maybe...
[23:15] * benzband|busyate is now known as benzband
[23:16] <@Ironholds> calling AzaToth ;p
[23:16] <@Ironholds> for those of you who don't know him in that context, AzaToth is the javascript genius and/or Doctor Horrible-style mad genius who built twinkle
[23:16] * @Ironholds now has mental images of a mad genius style twinkle. Every time you block someone a door slams and a wolf ominously howls.
[23:17] * Riley_Huntley (acdac013@wikipedia/Riley-Huntley) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:17] <Frood> I can try to add it, I mean, it should (theoretically) just be a few lines in the code
[23:18] <@Ironholds> Frood: the last time I heard that wikipedia broke ;p
[23:18] <AzaToth> heh
[23:18] <Frood> Everyone has to break Wikipedia sometime!
[23:18] <AzaToth> Ironholds: you seen my image on github?
[23:18] * Frood forks AzaToth
[23:19] <AzaToth> Ironholds: https://github.com/azatoth
[23:19] <AzaToth> Ironholds: you called?
[23:19] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: like I said, I do not know the way of the code ;p
[23:19] * Electriccatfish2 (44c515f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.197.21.246) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:19] <@Ironholds> and yeah; we're discussing blocks based around nasty feedback
[23:19] <@Ironholds> StevenW, Callanecc_ et al have been working on some warning templates, and (hopefully soon) some block templates
[23:19] <@Ironholds> electriccatfish suggested integrating such doozies into twinkle
[23:19] <AzaToth> ok
[23:20] <AzaToth> https://github.com/azatoth/twinkle/blob/master/modules/twinklewarn.js
[23:20] * Electriccatfish2 (44c515f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.197.21.246) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:20] <Electriccatfish2> Back again
[23:20] <Callanecc_> Block templates - good idea didn't think of that
[23:20] <Riley_Huntley> Hello, Electriccatfish2
[23:20] <AzaToth> Ironholds: normally you only need to add the template to the Twinkle.warn.messages structure
[23:20] <Electriccatfish2> Hi Riley!
[23:21] <AzaToth> if the template follows the strict uw standard
[23:21] <AzaToth> https://github.com/azatoth/twinkle/blob/master/modules/twinklewarn.js#L1016 starts block templates
[23:21] * badon (~badon@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:22] * Riley_Huntley wonders if Dan653 is here
[23:22] <Electriccatfish2> Abuse of editing privilages is fine for AFT abuse.
[23:22] <Dan653> hi riley
[23:22] <AzaToth> Ironholds: ?
[23:22] * BarkingFish (~BarkingFi@openglobe/BarkingFish) has left #wikimedia-office
[23:22] <Dan653> im back from being afk and had to catch up on whats been said
[23:22] <Electriccatfish2> Also, Dan, we should have these chats for the CVUA
[23:22] <Dan653> its kinda like a mini cvua meeting :P
[23:22] <Riley_Huntley> Now to get Theo in here :P
[23:23] <@Ironholds> Dan653: TL;DR, we're discussing warning templates for AFT5 :)
[23:23] <Dan653> that's what i was thinking
[23:23] <Callanecc_> Yeah where's Theo with all the new ideas
[23:23] <Dan653> i already asked theo to join
[23:23] <@Ironholds> which theo?
[23:23] <Riley_Huntley> Theopolisme
[23:23] <@Ironholds> ooh, not sure if I know them
[23:23] <@Ironholds> always like meeting new people :)
[23:24] <Electriccatfish2> Also, is PC coming back?
[23:24] <Electriccatfish2> Me too!
[23:24] <Dan653> yes in december
[23:24] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: pending changes? indeedy-doody
[23:24] <@Ironholds> as soon as they make it not explode
[23:24] <AzaToth> Ironholds: copy over?
[23:24] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: hmn?
[23:25] <Dan653> here's are "friends" list oliver Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy/Status
[23:25] <Electriccatfish2> PC is better than protection
[23:25] <@Ironholds> Dan653: thanks!
[23:25] <Dan653> no it didnt work :( irc noob i am :P
[23:25] <AzaToth> Ironholds: you know where it should be added now?
[23:26] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: the templates?
[23:26] <AzaToth> yes
[23:26] <Electriccatfish2> Also, how can I add the AFT to my articles?
[23:26] <@Ironholds> they're still being worked on - I just wanted to verify you'd be okay with the idea once they're done :)
[23:26] <AzaToth> ah
[23:26] <Riley_Huntley> Dan653: You just need to type !link
[23:26] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: try adding. It *should* work; lemme know if it doesn't.
[23:26] <Riley_Huntley> !link Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy/Status
[23:27] <Dan653> thanks riley, but i dont know how to whisper you back
[23:27] <AzaToth> Ironholds: that requires full consensus in the twinkle cabal
[23:27] <Riley_Huntley> Someone get "helpmebot" in here please :/
[23:27] <Electriccatfish2> thanks
[23:27] <Dan653> cabal (shivers [bad experience])
[23:27] <Callanecc_> Dan: indeed
[23:28] <Electriccatfish2> like the one from this week with rollbackers and reviewers
[23:28] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: there's a cabal?
[23:28] <@Ironholds> oy, there are always cabals
[23:28] <AzaToth> Ironholds: offcourse it is ?
[23:28] <@Ironholds> heh
[23:28] <benzband> TINC!
[23:28] <@Ironholds> benzband: it's "there is no cabal (singular)"
[23:28] <@Ironholds> this is true. There are lots of cabals ;p
[23:28] <Dan653> !linkWikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Rollbacker_and_Reviewer_Cabal
[23:29] <AzaToth> Ironholds: as twinkle is not a official wmf ware, nor "owned" by the wikipedia people, the devs _are_ the cabal
[23:29] <Riley_Huntley> stwalkerster: Could you get helpmebot in here, since you are a developer and all
[23:29] <Dan653> Riley! lies! off with your head!
[23:29] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: interesting! Waddaya think they'd think?
[23:29] <Riley_Huntley> Dan653: It only works when the bot is in chat :(
[23:29] <Dan653> oh
[23:29] <Dan653> how do i whisper you back
[23:29] <AzaToth> Ironholds: they think that if it's a authorized template by th UW cabal, then it's ok
[23:29] <@Ironholds> there's a UW cabal? oy.
[23:30] <@Ironholds> StevenW, halp ;p
[23:30] <benzband> i think everyone here is being very unwise in giving AzaToth too many ideas : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_stuff_beans_up_the_developers%27_noses
[23:30] <Callanecc_> WikiProject User Warnings
[23:30] <Riley_Huntley> Dan653: Template:Whisperback
[23:30] <StevenW> Yeah WP:UW
[23:30] <Dan653> Template:Whisperback oh
[23:30] <Electriccatfish2> Also, should there be a single-issue notice regarding putting personal info into feedback
[23:30] <Riley_Huntley> :)
[23:31] <AzaToth> benzband: was there any issues with my batch scripts?
[23:31] <Dan653> riley :'(
[23:31] <Dan653> i still don't get it...
[23:31] <@Ironholds> Electriccatfish2: like "hey! we noticed you did [specific thing]. Please don't"?
[23:31] <Dan653> but anyways heres the link to the that "wonderful" cabal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Rollbacker_and_Reviewer_Cabal
[23:31] <Riley_Huntley> Don't get what :P
[23:32] <Electriccatfish2> me too
[23:32] <Dan653> how to whisper!
[23:32] <benzband> that is precisely a beany attitude
[23:32] <Riley_Huntley> You have to do it on a talk page :P
[23:32] <benzband> (hey! we noticed you did [specific thing]. Please don't)
[23:32] * Theopolisme (~Theopolis@99-109-166-85.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:32] <benzband> because i don't think the editors realise what happens to their feedback
[23:33] <Theopolisme> Miss me?
[23:33] <Dan653> theo!!!
[23:33] <Riley_Huntley> Theopolisme: Of course
[23:33] <Callanecc_> Theo :)
[23:33] <Electriccatfish2> Sort of like that. Tell them that e/o can see it
[23:33] <Electriccatfish2> hi theo!
[23:33] <Theopolisme> Hehe. What's going on?
[23:33] <Dan653> stuff
[23:33] <Theopolisme> Darn them inlaws...
[23:33] <Electriccatfish2> congrats on winnig coordship
[23:33] <Callanecc_> Before we turn completely over to CVUA, perhaps a chat about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Article_Feedback/Guidelines
[23:33] <Electriccatfish2> fine
[23:33] <Dan653> lol
[23:33] <Theopolisme> Thanks. Was delayed by inlaws arriving, sorry. But ....
[23:33] <benzband> because i don't think the editors realise what happens to their feedback…
[23:34] <@Ironholds> benzband: largely it's readers (hopefully)
[23:34] <benzband> …but leaving a warning will "feed the trolls"
[23:34] <Electriccatfish2> should we hide curses b/c of wp: censor?
[23:34] <Electriccatfish2> they're not trolls. See m:Troll
[23:34] <Dan653> i hide curses, giberish, and foreign language usually
[23:35] <Callanecc_> If someone writes fuck in an article you remove it, so I have been in AFT5
[23:35] <Theopolisme> But if the curses are combined w meaningful stuff I leave it alone.
[23:35] <Electriccatfish2> Many ppl use Wikipedia every day
[23:35] <Dan653> agree callan
[23:35] <Dan653> agree theo
[23:35] <Electriccatfish2> how about "no
[23:35] <Dan653> no what?
[23:35] <Electriccatfish2> or "yes"
[23:35] <Callanecc_> Regarding foreign langauge see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Article_Feedback/Guidelines#Foreign_language_responses
[23:35] <Electriccatfish2> in a feedback
[23:35] <Electriccatfish2> just the "yes" or "no"
[23:35] <Dan653> flag?
[23:35] <benzband> "no" and "yes" are direct answers to the question (did you find what u are looking for)
[23:36] <Callanecc_> not doing any harm,
[23:36] <Callanecc_> mark as unhelpful, move one
[23:36] <Callanecc_> on*
[23:36] <Electriccatfish2> no. the faces show that
[23:36] <@Ironholds> I would say that I would expect yes/no to stop turning up as feedback
[23:36] <Theopolisme> Mark the non-english?
[23:36] <Dan653> i agree with callan
[23:36] <@Ironholds> so, using the old versions of the form, it was all on one page
[23:36] <Theopolisme> Ironholds: agree
[23:36] <Dan653> no hide non english per guidelines
[23:36] <@Ironholds> and so people would answer the question by typing in the answer instead of hitting the button
[23:36] <Theopolisme> Dan653: i support that
[23:36] <@Ironholds> it's now split up over multiple pages, so it's harder to confuse the text box for "where you should answer 'did you find what you were looking for?'"
[23:36] <Electriccatfish2> how about comments that are BLP libel? I hide those
[23:36] <Dan653> theo how do you whisper to me
[23:37] <benzband> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Dutasteride/175672 not english, but i wouldn't hide it
[23:37] <Callanecc_> Just chuck it in Goofle translate to check if there is a problem with it
[23:37] <Dan653> use your best judgement?
[23:37] * Callanecc_ (89a64a9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.166.74.154) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:37] <Electriccatfish2> Okay, guys, G2G. Best!
[23:37] <Dan653> and google translate
[23:37] <Theopolisme> Dan653: whisper?
[23:37] <Dan653> see ya ecg
[23:37] <Dan653> *f
[23:37] * Electriccatfish2 (44c515f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.197.21.246) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:37] <Theopolisme> Bue electric.
[23:37] <Theopolisme> **Bye
[23:37] <Dan653> yes theo whisper
[23:37] * Callanecc (89a64a9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.166.74.154) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:38] <Theopolisme> .....
[23:38] <Theopolisme> blank stare
[23:38] <AzaToth> Ironholds: by the way, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:AFT/Arrow_diagram
[23:38] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: yup?
[23:38] <AzaToth> first time I saw it, I thought the center was something censored
[23:39] <@Ironholds> hahaha
[23:39] <Theopolisme> bahaha
[23:39] <@Ironholds> yes, it is our replacement image filter
[23:39] <@Ironholds> don't tell anyone ;p
[23:39] <AzaToth> heh
[23:39] <benzband> can readers "curate comments"?
[23:39] <Theopolisme> vote on them
[23:39] <@Ironholds> benzband: they can! Readers have access to the helpful/unhelpful buttons, as well as "mark as abuse"
[23:40] <Callanecc> and feature if they are confirmed
[23:40] * AzaToth doesn't know exactly what "cureate comments" actually means
[23:40] <AzaToth> curate*
[23:40] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: curate/tend to. So, the guy at a museum who decide what gets put where is the curator.
[23:40] <AzaToth> Ironholds: though they still have no clue that there are comments in the first place
[23:40] <AzaToth> I see
[23:41] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: not true!
[23:41] <@Ironholds> after someone submits feedback we take them through to the page
[23:41] <Theopolisme> can they see it if they _dont_?
[23:41] <@Ironholds> I'm unsure as to whether we take them through to their comment directly, or to the full page with their comment prominently seen
[23:41] <@Ironholds> I know the latter is totally on the plan
[23:41] <@Ironholds> yeah, if they go to the right page they can see the full thing. Obviously it's not too prominently linked
[23:41] <AzaToth> Ironholds: then you are not a "reader" but a "commenter"
[23:41] <@Ironholds> because otherwise you'd have people going "huh, I just need 4 friends and I can hide EVERYTHING"
[23:42] <benzband> haha
[23:42] <AzaToth> and if you are an "editor", you will still not be notified about comments
[23:42] <Theopolisme> point made.
[23:42] <@Ironholds> (please, nobody tell them that)
[23:42] <Theopolisme> AzaToth: is there a way for them to make it part of watchlisting?
[23:42] <benzband> (don't worry x)
[23:42] <@Ironholds> it's #1 on WP:BEANS. Along with that method of crashing the entire wiki by deleting one thing.
[23:42] <Theopolisme> like, a new alert when feedback is posted?
[23:42] <@Ironholds> Theopolisme: we're actually working on a watchlist feature now :)
[23:42] <Callanecc> Theo please not that question AGAIN
[23:43] <Theopolisme> You brilliant little ducks.
[23:43] <@Ironholds> fully integrating it is pretty difficult
[23:43] <Theopolisme> I came late, remember?
[23:43] <@Ironholds> but what we're going to have (to *start* with) is a link on your watchlist
[23:43] <AzaToth> Theopolisme: nope
[23:43] <@Ironholds> click on it, you'll see a feed of comments from all the pages you want, sorted by date.
[23:43] <Theopolisme> :P
[23:43] <@Ironholds> so you click, you can instantly tell if there are new things by way of "have I seen the top comment before"
[23:43] <Theopolisme> Ironholds: sounds nice.
[23:43] <benzband> will it appear in RecentChanges ?
[23:43] <Dan653> agreed
[23:43] <Theopolisme> point made
[23:44] <AzaToth> Ironholds: so there will be N extra links on the watchlist for your N watched pages?
[23:44] <@Ironholds> benzband: feedback submissions should appear
[23:44] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: nope! One link to one page.
[23:44] * Kingpin13 (~Kingpin13@Wikipedia/Kingpin13) Quit (Quit: quit)
[23:44] <@Ironholds> I could watch 9,000 pages and have the same space taken up by the feedback page as someone who watches 5
[23:44] <@Ironholds> which is kinda crucial
[23:44] * jvandavier (~jvandavie@wikimedia/jvandavier) Quit (Quit: jvandavier)
[23:44] <Theopolisme> Definitely
[23:44] <@Ironholds> also we've found it's very much a long tail. Some get a lot of feedback posts, most get very few
[23:44] <AzaToth> Ironholds: I don't know if single-article-editors uses watclist
[23:45] <@Ironholds> so having individualised links would be disproportionate
[23:45] <benzband> Justin Bieber gets too much feedback
[23:45] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: that's an interesting issue. I'm genuinely not sure if we have any data on that :S
[23:45] <@Ironholds> I'll talk to our research monkeys
[23:45] <Callanecc> Yes he does
[23:45] <AzaToth> hehe
[23:45] <@Ironholds> benzband: I wish he got more
[23:45] <benzband> how about a category that *removes* articles from aft5 ^^
[23:45] <@Ironholds> more microphone feedback, that is
[23:45] <@Ironholds> it'd drown him out
[23:45] <@Ironholds> benzband: already exists (or should exist? or will exist?)
[23:45] <benzband> (^_____^)
[23:45] <@Ironholds> but tbqh I worry about using a category
[23:45] <@Ironholds> it'd be very easy to screw with.
[23:46] <Theopolisme> make it like RPP?
[23:46] <Theopolisme> or too complicated?
[23:46] <Dan653> justin bieber does get a disproportionate amount of feedback
[23:46] * AzaToth has still not being able to find what he is looking for
[23:46] <Callanecc> Yeah but you have to know what the category means first
[23:46] <@Ironholds> the idea I'm going with and hope to have implemented is an additional setting on the protection screen, so admins, when they're dealing with a flood of vandalism or whatnot, can turn it on or off
[23:46] <@Ironholds> Theopolisme: are you reading my mind? :p
[23:46] <Theopolisme> heh.
[23:46] <Theopolisme> I think that's the way to go tho
[23:47] <Dan653> whats the best irc client for windows?
[23:47] <@Ironholds> Dan653: I tend to use mIRC on my windows machines
[23:47] <@Ironholds> and then xchat on my linux ones
[23:47] <Theopolisme> colloquy on the mac rules.
[23:47] <Theopolisme> (random)
[23:48] <Dan653> well you mentioned clients so i decided i should find out which one is th best
[23:49] <Theopolisme> Dan653: np
[23:49] <benzband> hahaha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Leo_%28astrology%29/175656
[23:49] <Theopolisme> benzband Dan653 !link Wikipedia_talk:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy#.23wikipedia-cvua_on_the_IRC.3F_An_idea.
[23:49] <Theopolisme> DARN
[23:49] <Theopolisme> THIS
[23:49] <Theopolisme> COMPUTER
[23:50] <Theopolisme> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy#.23wikipedia-cvua_on_the_IRC.3F_An_idea.
[23:51] <AzaToth> Ironholds: I notice there doesn
[23:51] <AzaToth> doesn't seems to exists a link back to Wikipedia:Article feedback from Wikipedia:Article Feedback Tool et al
[23:52] <Callanecc> benzban: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AFT5G#H3 - hide it ;p
[23:52] <benzband> ok
[23:52] <Riley_Huntley> Xchat takes a long time to open links
[23:52] <Callanecc> somewhat of a joke, but ok
[23:52] * jvandavier (~jvandavie@wikimedia/jvandavier) has joined #wikimedia-office
[23:53] <benzband> when hiding a post, can/should one use the rationales (e.g. H3) in the comment box?
[23:53] <Theopolisme> i don't think that the comment writer would then know what it meant though.
[23:53] <@Ironholds> benzband: I think that depends on the rationales being adopted :)
[23:53] <@Ironholds> Theopolisme: indeed
[23:53] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: damn. on the to-do list!
[23:54] <benzband> assuming, they are adopted
[23:54] <Dan653> okay guys im not spending $25 on irc chat stuff, any other options?
[23:54] <Callanecc> Yep if you write WP:AFT5G#H3 it will link to it
[23:54] <benzband> or would "H3 - personal attack" be better
[23:54] <@Ironholds> Dan653: xchat?
[23:54] <Callanecc> once it's approved that is
[23:55] <AzaToth> Ironholds: I notice I can mark my own comment as "helpful"
[23:55] <@Ironholds> AzaToth: oh lloyd. Okay, I'll bugzilla that :).
[23:55] <AzaToth> and I can flag it as abuse ?
[23:55] <Theopolisme> benzband - i think a brief description + link is good
[23:55] <Callanecc> AzaToth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AFT5G#Conflict_of_interest
[23:56] <benzband> doesn't work : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Golden-crowned_Sparrow/175699
[23:56] <benzband> (@ Callanec)
[23:56] <AzaToth> also Ironholds
[23:56] <AzaToth> Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Golden-crowned_Sparrow says "100% found what they were looking for"
[23:56] <Riley_Huntley> Holy frick
[23:56] * Retrieving #wikimedia-office modes...
[23:56] <Callanecc> That's one for Oliver to work out
[23:56] <@Ironholds> Callanecc: it's one for our devs to work out ;p
[23:57] <@Ironholds> I know a tiny fragment of PHP and am otherwise useless in this field
[23:57] <Theopolisme> I just did it over there...
[23:57] <Dan653> ? what did i do?
[23:57] #wikimedia-office url is http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
[23:57] <Ironholds_> oh bloody hell
[23:57] * @Ironholds (~f@wikipedia/Ironholds) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[23:57] * Ironholds_ is now known as Ironholds
[23:57] <Theopolisme> Ironholds: Woah! You can feature a hidden post??
[23:57] <Callanecc> better catch up Oliver
[23:57] <Theopolisme> is that a bug?
[23:57] <Riley_Huntley> Dan653: You pressed save before me twice so I had to redo it
[23:57] <Ironholds> Theopolisme: you can? yes, yes that's a bug ;p
[23:57] <AzaToth> Theopolisme: lol
[23:57] <Ironholds> you guys are now my favourite bug-finders
[23:58] <Ironholds> Thehelpfulone, move over ;p
[23:58] <Theopolisme> (like a boss) jk
[23:58] <AzaToth> and I can unhide my own comment
[23:58] <Dan653> well i forgot to bold the support :P
[23:58] <Theopolisme> (BUG HUNTERS to the RESCUE!)
[23:58] <benzband> * un-featured
[23:58] <Dan653> woot woot
[23:59] <Ironholds> AzaToth: oy. Okay, gonna fix that ;p
[23:59] <AzaToth> Theopolisme: offcourse I tried to do a javascript injection :-P
[23:59] <Callanecc> ironholds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Golden-crowned_Sparrow/175699. Is it possible to wikimarkup the comments
[23:59] <benzband> (here come the wheel war :)
[23:59] <Dan653> good q callan
[23:59] <Ironholds> Callanecc: hmn. Possibly? I'll ask!
[23:59] <AzaToth> Ironholds: trying to unfeature my post now, I'm getting {"articlefeedbackv5-flag-feedback":{"result":"Error","reason":"articlefeedbackv5-invalid-feedback-state"}}
[23:59] <Theopolisme> #wikipedia-cvua
[23:59] <Ironholds> AzaToth: aww, trying to include code in your posts?
[23:59] <Ironholds> Wikimedia: We Sanitise Our Inputs ;p
[23:59] <Dan653> yay theo
[23:59] <Ironholds> that wouldn't be a bad motto for engineering, actually
[23:59] <AzaToth> did't someone say the feed was "live"?
[23:59] <benzband> AzaToth: try reloading
[23:59] <Theopolisme> I've gotta go... darn inlaws... back in 2 hrs... DARN
Session Time: Sat Jul 21 00:00:00 2012
[00:00] <Ironholds> AzaToth: dagnabit. Okay, adding to the list.
[00:00] <Dan653> also Xchat is not free
[00:00] <Ironholds> it's not?
[00:00] <AzaToth> Dan653: it "is"
[00:00] <AzaToth> though not the "official" windows one
[00:01] <Theopolisme> adios.
[00:01] * Theopolisme (~Theopolis@99-109-166-85.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Urgent? Message me: http://enwp.org/User_talk:Theopolisme)
[00:01] <benzband> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Spuno/175705 :(
[00:01] <benzband> (wikilinks disabled)
[00:02] <benzband> also in hide commentbox
[00:02] * Ironholds nods. hmn.
[00:02] <Ironholds> alright - my clock tells me office hours is over, but I'll be back in...lesse.
[00:02] <Ironholds> 2 hours. oy. for the third one of the day ;p.
[00:03] <benzband> bye
[00:03] <Ironholds> thanks to everyone for their bug-hunting and suggestions! I'm going to write everything up on Monday and shove it in bugzilla/get you replies.
[00:03] * Ironholds waves adios
Session Close: Sat Jul 21 00:03:21 2012