Knights and good boys

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Hierdie is 'n opstel. Dit gee die mening en idees van enkele gebruikers op Meta-Wiki weer, maar word waarskynlik nie deur almal ondersteun nie. Dit is ook nie 'n amptelike beleid of riglyn op Meta-Wiki nie, maar dit mag wel een op ander Wikimedia-projekte wees. Voel asseblief vry om hierdie bladsy soos nodig by te werk, of gebruik die kletsblad om groot wysigings voor te stel. هذه نصيحة. تعبر عن آراء وأفكار بعض مستخدمي ميتا-ويكي لكن قد لا تكون مدعومة على نطاق واسع. هذه ليست سياسة على ميتا-ويكي، لكنها قد تكون سياسة أو إرشاد في مشاريع ويكيميديا آخرى. لا تتردد في تحديث هذه الصفحة عن الحاجة، أو استخدم صفحة النقاش للتعديلات الجوهرية. Ovo je esej. Sadrži misli i ideje nekih korisnika Meta-Wikija, ali ne mora nužno da bude široko prihvaćen. Ovo nije pravilo na Meta-Wikiju, ali može da budi pravilo ili uputa na drugim projektima Wikipedije. Slobodno promijenite ovu stranu po potrebi ili koristite stranu za razgovor za veće promjene. Açò és un assaig. Expressa les opinions i idees d'alguns usuaris de Wikimedia o del Meta-Wiki però pot ser que no tingui un ampli suport. Això no és una política del Meta-Wiki, però pot ser política o guia d'estil en algun altre projecte Wikimedia. Sentiu-vos lliures d'actualitzar aquesta pàgina quan faci falta o utilitzeu la pàgina de discussió per a proposar-hi canvis d'importància. Dette er et essay. Det udtrykker visse Wikimedia- eller Meta-Wiki-brugeres holdninger og idéer, som ikke nødvendigvis deles af et flertal. Dette udgør ikke en politik på Meta-Wikien, men det kan være en politik eller et regelsæt på et andet Wikimedia-projekt. Du er velkommen til at ændre denne side efter behov, eller til at foreslå større ændringer på diskussionssiden. Dies ist ein Essay. Er drückt die Meinungen und Ideen einiger Meta-Wiki-Benutzer aus und wird eventuell nur von wenigen Benutzern unterstützt. Dies ist keine Richtlinie aus dem Meta-Wiki, kann aber Richtlinie oder Leitsatz in anderen Wikimedia-Projekten sein. Tu dir keinen Zwang an und aktualisiere diese Seite falls nötig, oder benutze die Diskussionsseite, um größere Veränderungen vorzuschlagen. This is an essay. It expresses the opinions and ideas of some wikimedians or Meta-Wiki users but may not have wide support. This is not policy on the Meta-Wiki, but it may be policy or guideline on other Wikimedia projects. Feel free to update this page as needed, or use the discussion page to propose major changes. Esto es un ensayo. Este texto expresa opiniones e ideas de algunos usuarios pero éstas no tienen un amplio consenso. Esto no es una política de Meta pero sí puede serlo en otros proyectos. Sea usted libre de actualizar esta página o use su página de discusión para proponer cambios mayores. Jen eseo. Ĝi esprimas la opiniojn kaj ideojn de iuj Vikipediistoj aŭ uzantoj de Meta-Wiki, sed eble ne havus vastan subtenon. Ĝi ne estas la regularo de Meta-Wiki, sed ĝi eble estas regularo en aliaj projektoj de Wikipedia. Laŭvole ĝisdatigu ĉi tiun paĝon laŭ bezono, aŭ uzu la diskuto-paĝon por proponi grandajn ŝanĝojn. این صفحه یک انشا است. این صفحه نظر و ایدهٔ برخی از کاربران فراویکی را بیان می‌کند اما ممکن است از حمایت گسترده‌ای برخوردار نباشد. این صفحه یک سیاست در فراویکی نیست، اما ممکن است سیاست یا رهنمودی در دیگر پروژه‌های ویکی‌مدیا باشد. آزادانه آن را به روز کنید، و برای تغییرهای بزرگ از صفحهٔ بحث استفاده کنید. Tämä on essee. Se ilmaisee joidenkin wikimedialaisten tai Meta-Wikin käyttäjien mielipiteitä tai ajatuksia, mutta sillä ei välttämättä ole laajaa kannatusta. Tämä ei ole Meta-Wikin käytäntö, mutta saattaa olla käytäntö tai ohje muissa Wikimedia-hankkeissa. Päivitä tätä sivua tarpeen mukaan tai ehdota isoja muutoksia keskustelusivulla. Ceci est un essai. Il exprime les opinions et les idées de certains contributeurs de Meta-Wiki, mais peut ne pas renconter le soutien des autres. Il n'est ni une règle ou une recommandation sur Meta-Wiki, mais peut l'être sur d'autres projets Wikimédia. N'hésitez pas à modifier cette page si besoin est, ou à proposer des changements majeurs sur la la page de discussion. Dit is in essay. It jout mieningen en ideeën wer fan guon meidoggers op Meta-Wiki, mar it is net sein dat eltsenien it der mei iens is. Dit is ek gjin offisjeel belied of rjochtline op Meta-Wiki, al kin dat wol sa wêze op oare Wikimedia-projekten. Fiel jo frij om dizze side wêr't dat nedich is bij te wurkjen of om grutte wizigings út te stellen op de oerlisside. עברית: דף זה הוא מאמר. הדף מבטא את הדעות והרעיונות של חלק מהמשתמשים במיזמי קרן ויקימדיה או במטא־ויקי, אך ייתכן שאין להם תמיכה נרחבת. דף זה הוא לא דף מדיניות במטא־ויקי, אך ייתכן שהוא דף מדיניות או דף הנחיות במיזמי ויקימדיה אחרים. הרגישו חופשיים לעדכן את הדף לפי הצורך, או השתמשו בדף השיחה להצעת שינויים משמעותיים. Ovo je esej. Sadrži mišljenja i ideje nekih korisnika Meta-Wikija, ali ne mora nužno biti široko prihvaćen. Ovo nije pravilo na Meta-Wikiju, ali može biti pravilo ili uputa na drugim Wikimedijinim projektima. Slobodno promijenite ovu stranicu po potrebi ili koristite stranicu za razgovor za predlaganje većih promjena. Ez egy esszé. Néhány Wikimédia- vagy Meta-Wiki-felhasználó véleményét fejezi ki, de lehet, hogy nem kapott széles körű támogatást. Nem irányelv a Meta-Wikin, de irányelv vagy útmutató lehet más Wikimédia-projektekben. Szabadon frissítheted ezt a lapot, ha szükséges, vagy használd a vitalapot, ha nagyobb változtatást szeretnél javasolni. Isto es un essayo. Illo exprime le opiniones e ideas de alcun wikimedianos o usatores de Meta-Wiki, ma pote non esser appoiate per le consenso general. Isto non es un politica del Meta-Wiki, ma pote esser un politica o directiva in altere projectos de Wikimedia. Sia libere de actualisar iste pagina in caso de necessitate, o usa le pagina de discussion pro proponer major alterationes. Ini adalah sebuah esai. Esai ini menyatakan pendapat dan gagasan dari beberapa Wikimediawan atau pengguna Meta-Wiki dan mungkin tidak didukung oleh komunitas secara meluas. Esai ini bukan kebijakan Meta-Wiki, tapi mungkin saja merupakan kebijakan atau pedoman di proyek-proyek Wikimedia lainnya. Silakan memperbarui halaman ini seperlunya, atau gunakan halaman pembicaraan untuk mengusulkan perubahan besar. Questo è un saggio. Esprime le opinioni e le idee di alcuni contributori di Meta-Wiki, ma può non incontrare il sostegno di altri. Non è una raccomandazione o una linea guida su Meta-Wiki, ma lo potrebbe essere su altri progetti Wikimedia. Non esitate a modificare questa pagina se occorre, o a proporre modifiche rilevanti nella sua pagina di discussione. この記事はエッセイです。何人かのメタウィキの利用者の意見と考えを表していますが、幅広い支持を得ているとは限りません。メタウィキの方針ではありませんが、他のウィキメディア・プロジェクトの方針かガイドラインであるかもしれません。必要に応じてこのページを遠慮なく編集し、大きな変更の提案にはこの記事のノートを使用してください。 이 문서는 수필입니다. 이것은 일부 사용자의 의견을 나타낸 것으로, 총의를 얻지 않았을 수 있습니다. 이 문서는 메타위키 정책은 아니지만, 다른 위키미디어 프로젝트에서 정책이나 지침으로 사용하고 있을 수도 있습니다. 이 문서를 편집하거나 주요 내용을 바꿔야 한다면 토론 문서를 이용해 주세요. Ова е есеј. Во него е искажано мислењето и идеите на извесни викимедијанци или корисници на Мета-Вики, но не значи дека тоа ужива широка поддршка. Ова не претставува правило на Мета-Вики, но може да виде правило или напатствие на други проекти на Викимедија. Најслободно менувајте ја страницава, или пак користете ја страницата за разговор ако сакате да предложите некои поголеми промени. हा एक निबंध आहे. यामध्ये काही विकिपीडिया सदस्यांची किंवा मेटा-विकि सदस्यांची मते आणि कल्पना मांडण्यात आल्या आहेत. त्यांना बहुतांशांचा पाठिंबा असेलच असे नाही. हा निबंध मेटा-विकिवरील धोरण मांडत नाही, पण इतर काही विकिमीडिया प्रकल्पांमध्ये हा निबंध धोरण किंवा मार्गदर्शक तत्व म्हणून वापरला जात असणे शक्य आहे. आवश्यक असेल तेव्हा विनासंकोच हे पान संपादित करा किंवा काही मोठे बदल सुचविण्यासाठी चर्चा पानाचा उपयोग करा. Ini adalah sebuah karangan. Ia menyatakan pendapat serta buah fikiran sesetengah ahli wikimedia atau pengguna Meta-Wiki tetapi tidak semestinya mempunyai sokongan yang meluas. Ini bukannya polisi di Meta-Wiki, tetapi ia mungkin merupakan polisi atau garis panduan di projek-projek Wikimedia lain. Silakan mengemaskini laman ini jika perlu, atau gunakan laman perbincangannya untuk mengusulkan perubahan-perubahan yang besar. Dit is een essay. Het geeft de meningen en ideeën van enkele gebruikers op Meta-Wiki weer, maar wordt waarschijnlijk niet door iedereen gesteund. Dit is ook geen officieel beleid of richtlijn op Meta-Wiki, maar dat kan het wel zijn op andere Wikimedia-projecten. Voel u vrij om deze pagina als nodig bij te werken, of om de overlegpagina te gebruiken om grote wijzigingen voor te stellen. Aquò es una redaccion. Exprimís las opinions e las idèas d'unes contributors de MetaWiki, mas pòt rencontrar pas lo sosten dels autres. Es pas una règla o una recomandacion sus MetaWiki, mas o pòt èsser sus d'autres projèctes Wikimèdia. Esitetz pas a modificar aquesta pagina se fa mestièr, o a prepausar de cambiaments màgers sus la la pagina de discussion. Ten artykuł jest esejem. Wyrażone są w nim opinie i pomysły niektórych wikimedian lub użytkowników Meta-Wiki, ale niekoniecznie mają szersze poparcie. Nie jest to zasada obowiązująca na Meta-Wiki, ale może to być zasada lub zalecenie na innych projektach Wikimediów. Możesz aktualizować tę stronę w razie potrzeby lub skorzystaj ze strony dyskusji artykułu aby zaproponować większe zmiany. Isto é um ensaio. Ele expressa as opiniões e idéias de vários wikimedianos ou usuários do Meta-Wiki mas pode não ter grande respaldo. Isto não é uma política no Meta-Wiki, mas pode ser uma política ou orientação em outros projetos da Wikimedia. Sinta-se livre para atualizar esta página quando necessário, ou use a página de discussão para propor alterações maiores. Acesta este un eseu. Aici sînt exprimate opiniile şi ideile unor utilizatori de pe Meta-Wiki, dar este posibil să nu aibă accepţiune majoritară. Aceasta nu are titlu de politică pe Meta-Wiki, dar poate fi politică sau ghid de reguli pe alte proiecte ale Wikipediei. Poţi să îmbunătăţeşti această pagină după cum crezi adecvat, sau să foloseşti pagina de discuţie pentru a propune schimbări majore. Это эссе. Оно выражает мнения и идеи некоторых пользователей Мета-вики, но может не пользоваться широкой поддержкой. Эссе не является правилом Мета-вики, но, вероятно, может быть правилом или руководством в других проектах Викимедиа. Вы можете обновлять эту страницу как считаете нужным или воспользоваться страницей обсуждения, чтобы предложить масштабные изменения. Ово је есеј. Садржи мисли и идеје неких корисника Мета-Викија, али не мора да буде широко прихваћен. Ово није правило на Мета-Викију, али може да буде правило или упутство на другим пројектима Викимедије. Не устручавајте се да промените ову страну по потреби или користите страну за разговор да бисте предложили веће промене. Den här sidan är en essä. Den är inte en av Wikimedias policys eller riktlinjer, och återspeglar kanske endast författarnas åsikter. Uppdatera sidan om det behövs eller diskutera innehållet på diskussionssidan. หน้านี้เป็นข้อเขียน แสดงถึงความคิดหรือไอเดียของผู้ใช้วิกิมีเดียหรือเมต้าวิกิบางคนซึ่งอาจจะยังไม่ได้รับการสนับสนุนกว้างอย่างขวางนัก นี่ไม่ใช่นโยบายบนเมต้าวิกิ, แต่อาจเป็นนโยบายหรือแนวทางของโครงการอื่น ๆ ของวิกิมีเดีย อย่ากังวลในการแก้ไขหน้านี้ตามที่คุณต้องการ หรือใช้หน้าอภิปรายในการเสนอการเปลี่ยนแปลงใหญ่ ๆ Đây là một bài luận. Nó thể hiện ý kiến và ý tưởng của một số thành viên Wikimedia hoặc Meta-Wiki và có thể không được đồng tình một cách rộng rãi. Đây không phải là quy định tại Meta-Wiki, nhưng nó có thể là quy định hoặc hướng dẫn tại các dự án khác của Wikimedia. Xin hãy thoải mái cập nhật trang này nếu cần, hoặc sử dụng trang thảo luận để đề xuất những thay đổi lớn. 这是一篇论述。它只表达了部分维基人或元维基使用者的意见及观点，此等观点可能未获得广泛支持。这不是元维基的政策，但可能是属于其他维基计划的政策或指引。如有需要，欢迎更新本页面，或在讨论页提出修改的建议。 这是一篇论述。它只表达了部分维基人或元维基使用者的意见及观点，此等观点可能未获得广泛支持。这不是元维基的政策，但可能是属于其他维基计划的政策或指引。如有需要，欢迎更新本页面，或在讨论页提出修改的建议。 這是一篇論述. 它只表達了部分維基人或元維基使用者的意見及觀點，此等觀點可能未獲得廣泛支持。 這不是元維基的政策，但可能是屬於其他維基計劃的政策或指引。如有需要，歡迎更新本頁面，或在討論頁提出修改的建議。 [translate]

A research on the structure of a Wiki democracy, based on Incnis Mrsi’s experience in ru.wiki. Additions and corrections with a wider scope are welcome.

[edit] Introduction

The main conjecture is the existence of two phenomena: wiki-knights and wiki-good boys, where the former’s activity leads to social advantages of the latter and, hence, to discrimination against all non-good boys. In contrast to the famous „predator–prey“ model, this one provides a positive feedback. These two classes are virtually not sets, but rôles of users, some patterns of behavior. The user may be both a knight and a good boy, or not to be neither. It is not uncommon for an old good boy to became a knight. We also don’t claim any correlation (positive or negative) between them. But there are less good boys than knights.

[edit] Knights

We define a knight as one who knows how he should behave and does not think on it, even if the situation (such as a content dispute or RfA) assumes thinking. Possibly, he just isn’t able to think or have not such attitude in general, but also a knight may abstain from thinking because (in some class of situations) he „already knows what to do“. To my (Incnis Mrsi) observations, about 25% of that ru.wiki populace which take part in elections and polls, behave knight-like.

There is two subtypes of knights, different in appearance.

[edit] Knights of a cause

A knight of a cause is an user devoting his activity in Wikipedia to some cause (agenda): nationalistic, religious, political, sexual etc., and such cause is supposed to be conscious. For us it’s not important, to which namely cause, because impacts differ slightly. This types of knight usually engaged in flamewars and even edit wars in a narrow domain. It’s unlikely (but not impossible, though) for such knight to be also a good boy. But, despite the prejudice against them in ru.wiki’s public opinion, they have in fact a considerable total influence.

Here also included a great part (but not all) of „metapedian knights“ with their causes inside Wikipedia: deletionism, inclusionism, some ideas concerning an etiquette, sometimes even the justice and so on. Such causes are often combined by an user with some external one (see the top of the section).

[edit] Bêtise knights

A less numerous type of knights, but they vastly outnumber knights of each distinct cause. In their behavior prevail unconscious, biological (ethological) patterns, such as imitation, supremacy, imprinting, xenophobia. We denote them with French word bêtise, which literally means „silliness“, but derived from bête = beast.

A bêtise knight is often perceived as a metapedically active user, especially in the humanitarian domain. Any useful (or „true“) metapedian, though, has on his advanced stages a considerable contributions to essays, texts of rules, manuals, software utilities etc., which are empty in the typical case of a bêtise knight. But, in contrast to the former knight type, a bêtise knight could likely (but not necessary) be simultaneously a good boy.

[edit] Good boys

There are ideal, relative and majority-perceived good boys. The (ideal) Good Boy is a personage from the collective subconscious fictional universe. As „relatively-good boys“ (with, of course, also such variants as „good girls“, „good daddies“ and „good mommies“, between which we do not discreet) we denote users, whose reactions match some „standard user“ model in the mind of another user. Each user has his own „standard user“ model, based on the „standard man“ model, which, in turn, is based on himself (probably with some evident flaws removed) and his parents, friends etc., with, of course, some biological component, particularly for bêtise knights (see above).

A „majority-good boy“ is a boy, who is good relatively to a vast majority of users. Because of averaging of standard user models, a majority-good boy (from here and forth simply a good boy) more resemble the ideal Good Boy than a relatively-good boy. This is a crucial difference between a good boy and an usual human: a good boy has an ability to make his mistake in such way that he rarely receives punishment or even a broad conviction for it.

There is also an eligibility margin for a good boy in ru.wiki: an admitted good boy must have a long term and regular contribution with a good faith. But a kind and a quality of the contribution means absolutely nothing. An author of a dozen of good articles have no advantage over an user who only adds categories. An user who carefully responds to all queries have no advantage over an user who discards all critical notes in his personal talk page (but obeying a bit of etiquette). An user with 15 hours online have no advantage over an user who looks to the wiki once a week. An user with twenty thousands vocabulary have no advantage over an user who binds three words with considerable difficulties. Perception of a good boy is irrational, but there exist in ru.wiki some terms to define it. These are „balanced“ (rus: взвешенный) and „judicious wise“ (rus: рассудительный). With these two terms also a „conflict avoiding“ (rus: неконфликтный) is often used.

If an user doesn’t break rules, then he likely will be perceived as a good boy, in the case if he avoided participation in acute discussions. But an admitted good boy may break rules frequently in various ways, and, even being stopped once, he will ever be excused, rehabilitated and restored in all his positions while he continues to be a good boy; an explanation will be made below. It is crucially important for a good boy/girl to retain his/her rôle, though, at least from points of view of a vast majority of users. A loss of his/her good boy/girl image for at least one third of populace would have dramatical (and even tragic) consequences. The most notable example is Lvova, a good girl and a martyr for a big group of supporters, but she became a very bad girl for some other users.

[edit] Why knights support good boys

In this section we will discuss mainly a support on RfA, ArbCom elections etc.

It’s evident, why knights generally do not support knights – because their causes are often opposing or conflicting. Their causes usually (except nationalisms and racisms) intended on the whole humanity, though. Whom the progressive, good humanity consists of? First of all, of his reference group, and, next, of another good boys. A bêtise knight is not an exception. He also has his cause, usually a „normal“ human society (depends on the personal background: like his family, his collective or something worse). Along with a support for good boys, they tends to support each other, but not other knights and, in any case, a support to somebody but a good boy is unreliable.

Consider the electoral behavior of a knight of a cause. If a candidate is not a good boy and is not devoted to the cause (of course, only a small part of users are devoted), then a knight oppose him. So, a non-good boy candidate faces an opposition from almost all knights. But if a candidate was a good boy, then a knight would, in the worse case, abstain. Probably, some errors in his work would be found, but he never will oppose the cause. Because he is good, and we fight, of course, for the goodness of good boys. And a benefit of the cause is the highest value.

[edit] How good boys support knights

There is no systematic support of knights at RfA etc. in ru.wiki. The main form of supporting knights is a passive support. For example, helping a knight to avoid the punishment for disruption of a wiki community. Drbug is the brightest example (in ru.wiki) of a (former) good boy, who supports systematically some of most odious knights, but such boys are rare. Good boys, generally, do not announce broadly their support to knights, but such support occurs quite often and have the same goal.

Non-knights rarely resolve their conflicts with a mediation. Though, good boys often mediate numerous conflicts with knights’ participation. Of course, a good boy feel himself highly sought because of it, particularly if a boy is not able to any other work. Moreover, because a good boy (who are used in conflicts resolving) communicates mainly with knights and other good boys, he starts to think that it’s knights and good boys who are the community. That’s why he often defend a knight, even if a knight makes a harm to the project’s goal.

You can say that there is not support but a connivance, an (excessively) soft enforcement of the rules. Is it a support or not, but it encourage new knights of a cause to join the project. Those users who are not knights nor good boys, contrary, tends to abandon the project.

[edit] Does the administration consist of good boys only?

Of course, no, even in ru.wiki. In the past, many ru.wiki sysop candidates received a support from one party of knights to obtain some protection against opposing knights. In modern ru.wiki, a „non-good boy“ is eligible for sysop if he fits some niche. In such case he obtain a consolidated support from almost all non-knights (as non-knight good boys, as those who are not knights nor good boys), and also a support from some knights of a cause. Bêtise knights always vote against a non-good boy, but in the case of a niche candidate their resistance may be broadly overran.

[edit] Indeed, are good boys bad?

Of course, they are not bad itself. It’s discrimination in favor of them what is bad, like any kind of a discrimination. If less people have, for example, a sysop flag, then an average sysop should increase the number of performed actions and, hence, its quality is decreasing. A wiki community should judge not is an user good or bad himself, but which work is he able to perform good or bad.

[edit] Possible remedies

The most evident way to counter this feedback loop is to deter knights from influence on the granting of privileges, but this would be just another form of discrimination. Another possibility (in case of one wiki-project, particularly flooded with good boys) is to establish some external ruling/controlling/supervising body, that might throw all rule breakers away of the administration, regardless to are they good or bad.

Also, a segmentation would lead to some competition between different segments of the elite and eventually to decreasing demands in good boys, but this way may lead to clashes of cliques of knights, which would be not good for Wikipedia.