Meta talk:Babylon

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Welcome to the Babylon talk page. This place is dedicated to discussions about all the translations-related issues here on meta.
Meta is a multilingual project so is this page. Any language is welcome here.
You can reply to a topic by clicking the [edit] link beside that section, or start a new discussion


Useful Wiki for all translators[edit]

There is a site based on MediaWiki software including WikiData now on its own that with your support may join the great community of WikiMedia Foundation. For details see Adopt OmegaWiki. We handle 400+ languages More about on our main page: OmegaWiki

IIRC it's covered somewhere in Writing clearly or maybe Translating Dictionary. --Nemo 20:02, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Related Peeragogy Educational grant proposal[edit]

Dear Wikipedia Educators: We're advancing an Individual Engagement Grant here. If this is something you and your students might like to be involved with, please add an endorsement. Comments or questions in advance of the September 30th deadline would be most welcome on the proposal's talk page. In particular, our project involves translation work which we hope might be interesting to students.

--Fabrizio Terzi (talk)

Upcoming IdeaLab Events: IEG Proposal Clinics[edit]

message
Idea Lab
Idea Lab

Hello, Babylon! We've added Events to IdeaLab, and you're invited :)

Upcoming events focus on turning ideas into Individual Engagement Grant proposals before the March 31 deadline. Need help or have questions about IEG? Join us at a Hangout:

  • Thursday, 13 March 2014, 1600 UTC
  • Wednesday, 19 March 2014, 1700 UTC
  • Saturday, 29 March 2014, 1700 UTC

Hope to see you there!

This message was delivered automatically to IEG and IdeaLab participants. To unsubscribe from any future IEG reminders, remove your name from this list

Area of Expertise[edit]

I have just signed up as a translator. Is there a way that I can receive translation requests filtered by my areas of expertise? For example, I have (modestly) rated myself as "fr-2", but I have considerable experience in translating computer UI dialog and Canadian government jargon into French. D A Patriarche (talk) 01:28, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

You can select in Special:LanguageStats the aggregate group "Help", or go to mw:Special:LanguageStats. --Nemo 20:02, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Signature[edit]

According to a RFC in German Wikipedia each user and bot have to sign comments on talk or project pages, but the user de:Benutzer:Translation Notification Bot doesn't follow this rule. Could you fix this (adding --~~~~ to the messages of the bot)? Thank you! --Filzstift (talk) 09:33, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

As far as I know, the bot does sign messages. Can you formulate your request more precisely? --Nemo 20:02, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
@Nemo bis: I believe he means the bot is using a wrong format (the "--" are missing before the signature and there is no page where the signature links to). Vogone (talk) 21:31, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
It could probably be mostly fixed in MediaWiki:Translationnotifications-talkpage-body de translation, assuming that it everyone on dewiki translates to de, but it would be overkill IMHO. Th current message seems fine. Do "--" really matter that much? PiRSquared17 (talk) 22:12, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
The problem is, there is no link to the bot's user page (that's the main part of the RFC). --Filzstift (talk) 21:18, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Automatic translation workflow state changes[edit]

Hi, I'm trying to improve the workflow for page translation, specifically for WMF Fundraising's work. We would like to enable the automatic state changes used by some other sites (commons, otrs, and wikidata), here is the relevant patch. The commit message describes expected behavior after the patch is applied, please let me know if this is going to conflict in any way with your existing workflow!

Awight (WMF) (talk) 19:37, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds sensible, because users rarely use those manually. Occasionally, I do send a "ready" translation back to "proofreading" status, though I don't know how much this is noticed. I see on Commons that this is still possible for translation admins and normal users alike, all ok. --Nemo 20:02, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
@Awight (WMF):: Yes, that looks reasonable. (And I guess that this will also make it show up on one's watchlist when a translation reaches 100%, provided one watches the original page? That would be super useful.)
Just to double-check: I assume that status changes to "published" will still be manual, right? (Otherwise this might interfere with the CentralNotice integration, where setting a translation to "published" means that it is automatically imported into the live banners, see Help:CentralNotice/Translations.)
Regards, Tbayer (WMF) (talk) 03:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Watchlist: not currently, because the "target" of the log action is set to a fake title you (probably?) can't watchlist, that is the URL where the group can be translated.[1] 1) It's surprising, but logs don't have feeds. 2) You could file an enhancement request in Translate asking an exception for translation review log action target to be set to an actual page when it's about a translatable page, but it's not obvious if it should be the source page (for translation admins) or the translation page (for translators).
Published: the patch does nothing about such state. --Nemo 07:55, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Deployed, thanks for the input!
@Tbayer (WMF): Yes, Nemo_bis is right, CentralNotice translations are moderated by a workflow hack inside the extension, which restricts the publish action on banner message groups to only translation admins. Awight (WMF) (talk) 23:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to not translate /en/ to /en-gb/ ... /en-xx/ with <translate>[edit]

I am wondering why there is an effort to translate from /en/ to something like /en-gb/. While I understand the difference with regards to keyboards and certain keys of preference, eg. $ vs £, and maybe dates (never quite sure on that baby), I don't see the difference here at meta or in the vast expanse where we undertake translations. In fact, to me, as a native reader and writer of English, the /en-us/ (which is seemingly the default for /en/ anyway) and /en-gb/ don't represent me properly anyway. I also do not believe that there is any clear dictionary definition in available spellings, and one in which we would either bother or particularly care, especially with the subset and vague use of /en-xx/. Therefore I would like to propose that at meta, and if possible for the predominant part of our translation efforts that we do away with /en-xx/ translations unless there can be a clear, rational and demonstrated set of reasons for why we are doing it.  — billinghurst sDrewth 10:48, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

As all translations fallback to "en" anyway, it would be sufficient if en-ca/en-gb is only translated if there is indeed a difference in spelling or meaning in the respective dialects (which I believe is already done that way). Stopping en-ca/en-gb adjustments entirely would be wrong in my opinion as there are indeed not only a few cases where the meaning of words differs significantly. Also, in British English the letter "s" is preferred over the letter "z", which is almost excessively used in American English which I personally don't like and thus I am glad that there is a possibility to change the interface language to "en-gb" :-) Regards, Vogone (talk) 21:27, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
I am not talking about interfaces and the like, I am talking about when we have <translate> tags placed. This was brought due to a deletion request where someone had started a translation of a grant application from /en/ to /en-gb/. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.  — billinghurst sDrewth 13:41, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I also meant both. My opinion is that we should not disable the possibility to add en-gb translations entirely but I agree doesn't make any sense to add new translation sections in cases where en and en-gb are 1:1 identical. As en is the default fallback language for en-gb, such pointless translation section additions don't even have the slightest effect, anyway. Though, I don't feel too strong about this and if there is indeed the problem that too many users add en-gb translations where it is definitely not required I would not object to the en-gb language being disabled. Though, if that was done, it would require unambiguous language by the authors of content pages in English language, meaning only vocabulary which is dialect-independent should be used. Regarding the available spellings, there is the Oxford English Dictionary which tries to include as many langauge variations as possible, including vocabulary for the British or the American English dialect. Vogone (talk) 14:27, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
One current problem in the translate extension is that if a language code is "supported" by MediaWiki, and you have marked a base page for translation, nothing forbuds you to translate to that language code; except globally for the whole site. If the language code is disabled on the whole site (e.g. "zh-hant" because it is technically not considered a language by Mediawiki but as a variant within "zh", supported by aitomated transliterators).
The "en-gb" however is not a simple tansliteration, it is meant to be specialization from a source language only for a few entries, the rest should fallback automatically to "en". However tehe Transalte extension still does not know what is a language fallback; not even for standard fallbacks described alogorithmically in BCP47 from the locale code format, and then from data in the IANA database (e.g. with properties like "Suppress-Script", or "Replaced"). It also does not know the additional CLDR data about specific tailorings of fallbacks.
In summary the translate extension just assumes all transaltion units will be in the same language (otherwise it just uses a single fallback, the site's default language like English here on Meta, but in fact it just uses the unidentified language of the base source page).
So wr would first need integration of real fallbacks in the Translate tool when it (re)generates updated translated subpages. But even then we would need a change in the UI to allow adding locale-specigic variants; ony where they may be useful (with a button or link "Add a variant transaltion".
So the best you can do is to let users add translated page in any variant as they wish. However these pages remain navigatable. And the Translate tool should not override some translations in a language that it refuses to edit. We can live with "en-gb". verdy_p (talk) 15:08, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Medical translations to smaller languages, infobox issues![edit]

I've been working to get some of our medical translations that are done onto the smaller Wikis, and I’ve been having some issues with infoboxes. There aren’t any templates, so I went ahead and copied from the English Template:Infobox disease entry and made new templates, but these aren’t working properly.

Examples:

Thanks for any help! -- CFCF (talk) 10:30, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

P.S. Also lacking interwiki links for this article en:African trypanosomiasis (same as translated above), how do I implement these?
Thanks, CFCF (talk) 10:32, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

To add interwiki links, look in the list of languages to the left of the page. At bottom you have a link which will drive you to Wikidata.
First look at a page where they are present; then go to the English page which is missing an interwiki link to your page ; add the mapping for your language code to point to your localized wiki page. Your wiki will see the English interwiki, and the English page (or other languages present in that list) will see your new page.
But before doing that, make sure your missing templates are prefilled with minimum data (there are too many redlinks for your page to be usable)
verdy_p (talk) 11:10, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for that, I've already begun implementing it. CFCF (talk) 07:54, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

As for the infobox issue, I've come a little further, creating:

But I'm still only facing errors. If this is the wrong place to ask, where else should I go looking for help? Thanks, CFCF (talk) 07:54, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Testers welcomed for new feature - Special:PageMigration[edit]

As a Google Summer of Code Intern, I have been working on the Mass Migration tools project for Wikimedia. We are now ready with a minimal working product. The tool helps translators and translation administrators import the old translations into the Translate Extension.

An instance of the same has been set up on labs. You can find some useful instructions on the main page.

Please test the tool and report bugs/suggestions using the link provided on the main page itself. You can have a look at the tracking bug to check already reported bugs.

Looking forward to hearing from you! Cheers. BPositive (talk) 13:34, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Marking a wikitable for translation[edit]

Hello,

I add a wikitable to this page, but when I mark this version for translation, the whole table is in one big translation unit...

How can I have translation units only for colomn titles? Thanks for your help. Regards Benoit Rochon 17:00, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

You would need to add <translate></translate> tags before and behind every translatable part of the table. Furthermore, it would probably be easier and cleaner if you transfered that to a subpage. Regards, Vogone (talk) 18:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Vogone. Regards, Benoit Rochon 20:24, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Centralnotice-template-Wikimania2014Final[edit]

The current Centralnotice, MediaWiki:Centralnotice-template-Wikimania2014Final, already has plenty of translations which are ready for publishing. Why are they still not published? -- Yueman (talk) 14:48, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I wonder, too. No banners appeare eg. in Ukrainian lately, though we translated and proofread them. Should we every time jerk specific admin as edits on Babylon or RFH are not enough? -- Ата (talk) 07:05, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Replacing a translated page[edit]

I am currently working on completely replacing some pages in Grants:Evaluation in order to implement a redesign. Some of these pages have already been translated. Does anyone have recommendations for how to go about replacing an entire page? Do I simply delete all the translation tags and wait for fuzzybot to do its work? If there is a wiki page about this, that would be helpful as well - can't seem to find anything. Thanks so much! --EGalvez (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

IIRC it works like this: When you remove (any number of) translation sections from a page, and mark it for translation, these sections will simply be removed from the Translate interface for that specific page. The existing translations are preserved; when you create new translation sections, they get numbers which are not yet used. --MF-W 22:10, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks MF-W! I may have answered my own question - I'm pretty sure I need to delete all the old translated pages using Special:PrefixIndex (For example, for Grants:Evaluation, I would delete only the pages above the /About pages). I did a test page in my sandbox, and the old version of the page is displayed when I click "español". Would this be a good approach? --EGalvez (WMF) (talk) 01:09, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
The old version was still displayed on the Spanish page because FuzzyBot didn't yet run over it. A subsequent edit to the original page now made that happen. I don't know the logic behind this delay, maybe User:Nemo bis knows. --MF-W 14:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks so muchMF-W! This answers my question. --EGalvez (WMF) (talk) 18:55, 24 July 2014 (UTC)