Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Zazaki

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Zazaki Wikipedia[edit]

main page Requests for new languages (Wikipedia Zazaki)
submitted verification final decision
Application-certificate.svg This proposal has been approved.
The Board of Trustees and language committee have deemed that there is sufficient grounds and community to create the new language project.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

The requested project was created at diq: at an indeterminate date. Note that this request was approved before the implementation of the standardised Language proposal policy, and should not be used as a model for future requests. Shanel 06:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposal summary
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.
  • Number of speakers: Estimated somewhere between 2 - 4 million.
  • Locations spoken: Mostly in eastern Turkey, Germany, and Sweden
  • Related languages:en:Iranian languages
  • related pages:
Paul, Ludwig. (1998) "The Position of Zazaki Among West Iranian languages" University of Hamburg,[6].
Lynn Todd, Terry. (1985) "A Grammar of Dimili" University of Michigan,[7].
Gippert, Jost. (1996) "Historical Development of Zazaki" Frankfurt University,[8].
Gajewski, Jon. (2003) "Evidentiality in Zazaki" Massachusetts Institute of Technology,[9].
Gajewski, Jon. (2004) "Zazaki Notes" Massachusetts Institute of Technology,[10].
Larson, Richard. and Yamakido, Hiroko. (2006) "Zazaki as Double Case-Marking" Stony Brook University and University of Arizona,[11].


Summary

Supporters

  1. Xoser (N)
  2. Mirzali (N)
  3. mavzer (N)
  4. Taichi
  5. Avestazazaki (N)
  6. Caesarion
  7. fadime (N)
  8. 84.59.15.83
  9. 84.58.56.244
  10. asmen(N)
  11. 84.59.30.127
  12. 217.81.88.155
  13. 210.54.236.144
  14. Aktalo
  15. Atakan (N)
  16. vardis
  17. baboali
  18. Usen
  19. 84.61.70.23
  20. Hesen
  21. Sobê
  22. nl:Boudewijn Idema
  23. Mahmoud
  24. yemose
  25. Chamdarae
  26. Hamad
  27. Mehrdad
  28. Arbeo
  29. Behemoth
  30. 85.108.101.100 Zazahan
  31. Adiresewe
  32. 195.93.60.97
  33. 62.245.207.18
  34. 84.58.12.57
  35. Bertal
  36. 195.33.98.148
  37. Adirê Embaz
  38. Necati Balpayam
  39. Murat
  40. 80.145.76.244
  41. 80.145.126.226
  42. Jose77
  43. Yaroslav Zolotaryov
  44. The Jade Knight
  45. --Reza 18:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  46. Timichal • 00:06, 18. Jul 2006
  47. 81.215.169.136
  48. Steel archer
  49. 194.158.213.210
  50. 218

Opposers

  1. Erdal Ronahi
  2. Mesopotamia
  3. Diyako
    The Jade Knight
    83.164.10.225
    84.61.72.159
    Skywalker us
    RoboDoc
    New Nirvana
    84.113.55.73
    213.39.208.241
    84.152.107.53
    83.76.91.150
    84.132.242.239 (see the discussion page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Requests_for_new_languages/diq])
  4. Hégésippe
  5. 85.181.67.17
  6. Node ue
  7. Ciwan
  8. Heja helweda
  9. en:Pjacobi

Neutral

  1. Elya
  2. Jmabel

Comments

I propose to choose one, Maviulke: Kirmanjki or Dimli. Belgian man (nl na en) 16:05, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Dimli (Southern Zazaki) and Kirmanjki (Northern Zazaki) are mutually understandable. Together, they form Zaza branch of Zaza-Gorani Languages grup. --XOser 16:39, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Taichi regarding to domain name. As the proposer of Zazaki Wikipedia, I changed the domain name to <<dig.wikipedia.org>> <<zz.wikipedia.org>> or zzz.wikipedia.org.--Xoser 21:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- I wholeheartedly support the creation of a Zazaki wikipedia. I hope it will attract as many people as it can and it will develop into a good source of Zazaish language in Internet. Mirzali (N) 15:33, 17 January 2006
I strongly support the creation of a Zazaki wikipedia! I think it's a good idea to have a separate wikipedia on mentioned language, because it is independent from other Iranian languages such as Kurdish, Persian, Balochi etc.
"Languages are the chief distinguishing marks of people. No people in fact comes into being until it speaks a language of its own; let the languages perish and the people perish too, or become different people. But that never happens except as the result of oppression and distress." Mirzali (N) 00:15, 18 January 2006
  • Support -- I support zaza.wikipedia.org mavzer (N) from Anatolia. Mavzer destê de mı de na koon de cêreno,Ezo ke Partizano, dano dısmeni rê.
  • Support The proposed name must be diq.wikipedia because the domains of the wikis use the ISO code --Taichi - (あ!) 19:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support --Avestazazaki 20:04, 16 January 2006 (UTC) I support zaza.wikipedia.org Zazaki is related to Avestan and Old Persian languages; it is suppressed and forbidden by colonial rulers -- Avestazazaki (N)
  • Strong Support -- If dialects like West Low Saxon, Low German, Bavarian, Zeelandic, High German, Pennsylvanian German, Limburgs and West-Flemish etc. are allowed to have their own wikipedias, then Zazaki would have the right to create its own separate wiki since Zazaki is a separate language and not a mere dialect of Kurdish [12] --Jose77 03:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Support - The language already has sufficient big wiki and community in incubator, so why do not open the full wiki? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 06:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose, strongly oppose. --Erdal Ronahi 22:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC) The reason is this: There are some people who continously vandalize the Kurdish, the Turkish, the German and the English Wikipedia on Zaza-related pages. Now they seem to have come to Meta, where they are not so well known. I am an administrator of the Kurdish Wikipedia. Most Zaza-speakers regard Zaza as a dialect of Kurdish. Therefore we have created a Zaza-Mainpage in the Kurdish Wikipedia. We have created a category. We can create a namespace. But: These people have not yet written ONE single article in their language/dialect. If they would, we can discuss about splitting the Kurdish Wikipedia. But I strongly disbelieve they have the intention to create an encyclopedia in Zazakî. See the following edit diff to get a hint what I am talking about: [13] My proposal: They are invited to write 100 articels in the Kurdish Wikipedia, THEN let's split it.


  • Oppose strongly oppose. Mesopotamia 23:36, 16 January 2006 (UTC) Those who asked for a Zazaki wikipedia, why during these years they did not wrote anything in Zazaki section of the Kurdish Wikipedia?.
  • Weak oppose. The Kurdish Wikipedia offers the opportunity to write articles in this dialect, so I wonder if there is any actual need for it. Caesarion 23:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)For a revision of my position see below
  • Weak oppose, for same reasons as Caesarion. The Jade Knight 20:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC) (see below)
  • Strongly Oppose. Diyako 00:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Erdal, Mesopotamia, and Caesarion. Since most Zazaki-speakers and all of Kurmanci-speakers regard Zazaki as a dialect of Kurdish we can work in the Kurdish Wikipedia, it's better for us all.

On the other hand while despite of existence of a special section for Zazaki these people wrote nothing notable there, I am really suspisious of this action.

Please be logic.


I do not agree with the opposers.

1) en:Ethnologue lists Zazaki as a different language, not a dialect of any language:[14]

2 en:Ethnologue also list Zazaki dialects "Sivereki, Kori, Hazzu (Hazo), Motki (Moti), Dumbuli (Dumbeli)."[15]

3) Here is another source that says Zazaki is a different langauge. Extra, Guus. and Gorter, Durk. The Other Languages of Europe.[16]

4 Moreover, the US State Department "Background Note" lists Zaza as one of the major languages of Turkey, along with Turkish (official), Kurdish, Armenian, Greek, and Arabic. [17]. Zazaki Language is indeed a distinct language. --69.107.107.182 00:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


Dear Erdal, how could you blame me for something that I did not do. I do not know who vandalized that article. I never ever vandalized anything, and it is not my character. You should take your words back.

It doesn't matter whether Zazaki is a language or a dialect. It can still have its wikipedia like other dialects.

--Maviulke12 01:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

As you adress me directly, I will answer directly. I clearly do not know who kept vandalizing ku with anti-Kurdish and pro-Zaza statements, since they were anonymous. So I didnt mean to blame Maviulke12 personally.
I have not opposed to splitting the Kurdish Wikipedia, I have opposed splitting it NOW. This thread shows perfectly well what has happend in the past 2 years in several Wikipedias (ku, tr, de, en). Long, very long quotes are posted to support the claim that Zazaki is a diffenrent language, but NOTHING substantial is being written IN that language. Almost all of the Zazaki articles in ku were posted there by ME. You are all invited to create a lot of articles there and then I will even help you to split if necessary. Furthermore you cannot claim to speak for all Zaza speakers, a lot of them would want to keep Zazaki inside the Kurdish Wikipedia. I myself would clearly make sure that everything published on a possibe diq or zaz Wikipedia will get included into ku, too. --Erdal Ronahi 14:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, as a proponent, of course you only quote sources that support your opinion ;-). But anyway, Ethnologue very often turns dialects into separate languages, as it did with many Low Saxon variants in the Netherlands, for example. If you weren't allowed to write in Zaziki at the Kurdish Wikipedia, I certainly would support a Wikipedia in Zaziki (as long as enough people show their interest, of course). Now I won't, unless you can convince me that it is impossible or highly undesirable to have these two variants in one single Wikipedia. Caesarion 09:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Mr. Caesarion, then quote academic sources that prove your arguments. We supported our arguments with academic citations. If they can support their claims with academic sources, we are not going to object their offer. If you look carefully to ethnologue’s classification, you will see Zazaki is not under any language, and this proves Zazaki is not a dialect.
Moreover, when there isn’t any academic proof that supports yours and others arguments, and when enough people show interest in Zazaki Wikipedia, you and others can hardly object our project. --209.129.169.111 23:53, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Neutral: http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategor%C3%AE:Zazak%C3%AE certainly seems to provide an incubator for articles written in Zazaki. There don't currently appear to me to be enough of these to really merit starting another Wikipedia. -- en:user:Jmabel 14:56, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Strongly oppose. But I think that Erdal Ronahi's idea to develop articles in Zazaki language on Kurdish Wikipedia is a good idea. Then, if there are enough proofs for a need of a separate Wikipedia, another project could be launched. Hégésippe | ±Θ± 15:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
  • support -- I support zazaki.wikipedia fadime (N) 20:01, 19 January 2006
  • support--I support Zazaki Wikipedia--84.59.15.83 22:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
  • support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --84.58.56.244 22:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC)asmen

Dear friends and participants,

I support creating a Zaza-Wikipedia. Since 100 years Zazaki is from linguists as an own language recognized, first time proven by Iranist Oskar Mann, his analizes and researches were 1932 relased as book "Mundarten der Zâzâ" by Karl Hadank 1932. 1985 T.L. Tood released a grammar book "A grammar of Dimili (also known as Zaza)" in Michigan. 1998 there were 2 dissertations (thesis) released in Germany by Ludwig Paul (University Göttingen) and Zülfü Selcan (University Berlin). 2002 the first Zaza-Language institute was founded in Frankfurt/Main. In short, it is by far a prejudice and ignorant stereotype especcialy in Turkey that Zaza-Language is a Kurdish dialect. But it is until today not proven and this unscientific "dialect" idea is only defended by Kurdish nationalists, also by some Turkish nationalists. I would like to ask the "strong opposing" Kurdish friends here: Would you have accepted writing in Persian Wikipedia until Kurdish Wikipedia was been opened (or another Iranian Language). Surely Kurdish is a own language with Kurmanji, Sorani and South-Kurdish (Feyli, Kelhori). We don't allow us the any luxury to declare the Kurdish language as a Persian or Zaza-dialect. But the same sensibility and solidarity we expect from our Kurdish freinds. I don't know where some do take the right from to determine over a language. Did any Zaza tried to prevent you from your activity about and for the Kurdish language?

With best regards, Asmêno Bêwayir 2nd chairman of the Zaza-Language Institute Frankfurt/Main

  • support-- I support Zazaki Wikipedia--84.59.30.127 22:37, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


Our language Zaza By Faruk Iremet

To read, go to: http://zazapress.tripod.com/english/English.html#farukiremet


PS: If you want to be respected by other people and get your national identity known among the world's countries, first of all you have to maintain your national identity.

  • support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --217.81.88.155 13:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- I wholeheartedly support the creation of a Zazaki wikipedia.
  • Weak Oppose I'd want to see a successful test-wiki before supporting a Zazaki Wikipedia, considering the points brought up. Jade Knight 07:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Seeing the test-Wikipedia, I have changed my vote. If they can contribute to the Zazaki Wikipedia, good luck! The Jade Knight 06:25, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --210.54.236.144 20:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I am a native speaker of Zazaki- Dimilki- Kirmancki language. I wouldnt know and speak any other language (including Kurdish) untill I had to start to Turkish pre school in age of seven. Know I would like to coment about some points have been made here by some of opposed friends.

As one might realise that almost none of them ( the one strongly! opposing for separet Zaza page in Wikipedia) are NATIVE ZAZA SPEAKER.

It is so strange that always our Kurdish brothers / sisters for some strange reason oposing to our language to be developed in to todays standart writen and spoken lamnguages.

I will strongly spport to have a separete ZAZA section in Wikipedia. Bertal Kahraman

I find it unbelievable how you construct from our support for Zazaki INSIDE the Kurdish Wikipedia rather than OUTSIDE that we are opposing to Zazaki "to be developed in to todays standart writen and spoken lamnguages". I hope this is only a severe misunderstanding and not done on purpose. I strongly support the development of Zazaki. It was me who struggled a lot to get people to write articles in Zaza, I asked authors to donate their articles and it was me who thus put almost all of the present Zazaki articles into Wikipedia. Let me again say that all of the Zazaki lobbyists I discussed with failed to write articles. I offered technical help and everything and still am doing so. If you would write articles NOW, in the future there would be nothing more simple that to transfer them into a then-created Zaza-Wikipedia. We offer collaboration, but if you continue to reject, you are free to go your own way. --Erdal Ronahi 13:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - //Aktalo 14:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


  • Support - I support Zazaki-Wikipedia! //Ceren 17:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - I support Zazaki-Wikipedia! //Cavana 18:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - I support Zazaki-Wikipedia //Nebahat (N) 19:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - I wholeheartedly support Zazaki-Wikipedia. //michael 18:12, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - I support zaza-wikipedia. //umut (N) 18:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- I wholeheartedly support the creation of a Zazaki wikipedia. //sibel (N)
  • Support - I support Zazaki-Wikipedia! //esra (N) 18:51, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - I strongly support the creation of a Zazaki wikipedia! //yeliz (N) 18:58, 27 January 2006
  • Support -- I support zaza.wikipedia.org melek (N) 19:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- I support zaza.wikipedia //atakan (N) 19:25, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- I support zaza-wikipedia //mesut (N) 22:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - I support Zazaki-Wikipedia //arzu (N) 22:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - I strongly support the creation of a Zazaki wikipedia! //mustafa (N) 22:43, 27 January 2006


  • Votes that are seemed to be fake are deleted. --Maviulke12 15:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I do not understand how a voting behaviour like this or this should support the idea of a Zazaki Wikipedia. I will never be able to decide if it's is a dialect or a language, thus my opinion is neutral, but my suggestion (as always in Wikipedia) is to write something instead of discussing. Why not trying it at the Kurdish Wikipedia or a test wiki? --Elya 17:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not know who the hell did this or this. We should not count them, and this incident should not affect the decision on Zazaki Wikipedia.--Maviulke12 19:54, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I think that the last 15 votes to support must be anulated, because this suck puppet action; I believed that the Request for new languagues needs a politic for that only the registered users with a minimal quantity of editions may be vote. Any proposal? --Taichi - (あ!) 15:18, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
The place of the Zazaish language among the Iranian languages is already determined many years ago from the important linguists. It is definitely a separate language (on a specific grammar, such as in phonology, morphology, lexicology, semantics and syntax) and has several different dialects of it’s own.
Who uneducated one is justified and can decide upon Zazaki, as long as he don’t know this scientific fact?! It seems like that, if somebody would say ‘Dutch is a dialect of German’, because of the similarity of both languages. An other example could be say about the Roman languages (such as Spanish, Portuguese and Italian etc.). Even German dialects like ‘Alemannisch and Plattdüütsch’ have their own status.
Therefore the cooperation or teamwork with the Kurds doesn’t work, because of historical and even nowadays disadvantages in Zazas disfavour. The Kurds just occupy the Zaza culture for political reasons, but this is an unjust act. They don’t really want, that Zazaki develops and spreads.
There are also many bi-ethnical marriages between the Kurds and Zazas. The new Generation of them is more influenced from the Kurdish site, because the Kurds are the majority of the population.
And last but not least, concerning the votes above: ‘Why don’t take anybody into consideration, that these people could be members of a family or friends of each other?’ So why their votes don’t count? --mirzali (N) - 16:30, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
You keep saying that it is impossible to write in Zazaki on the Kurdish Wikipedia, but obviously none of you even tried to! I think it would be quite logical indeed if you tried writing Zaziki articles on the Kurdish Wikipedia before you said it doesn't work. If you are so eager to write in Zaziki, and you can do it right now, why do'nt you go ahead? And there are enough lexicons that are at least not as clear about its status as a language of its own as you are. Anyway, I grant anyone the right to write in his native language, but this right is currently not denied to you, that's the fact. Breaking up the Kurdish Wikipedia in two Kurdic wikipedias while you can use both languages/dialects/variants - for that's actually what you propose - seems a little counter-productive to me. Only when both sides agree that Turkish Kurdish and Zazaki are uncompatible, I will support a separate Zaziki Wikipedia, for it is a clearly defined linguistical entity and there seem to be quite some enthousiasts for it. Caesarion 22:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Caesarion,
Why do you persist in a dialect? Not even exists a standard version of so-called Kurdish, not to mention ‘Kurdic’ languages. Even Sorani (spoken in Iraq) is grammatically different from Kurmanci. There are two other Iranian languages -Gurani and Luri-, these are also reputed to be Kurdish. Which of this separately languages is now Kurdish? Do you know the differences between the mentioned languages? Nevertheless it’s getting politically to give a trial on a common Kurdish nationalism. But this artificial attempt can not to come true.
I have a favour to ask of you, Zazaki is not a milk salad that is made of strained yogurt, cucumber, and garlic. Please, write correctly and not like Zaziki. mirzali 02:17, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
First of all: sorry about being so neglecting as to misspell the word "Zazaki". But do I persist in calling it a dialect? I'm not quite aware of that. On the contrary, I leave all possibilities open by explicitly saying "languages/dialects/variants". That there is no standard Kurdish language does not yet mean that there is no such thing as a Kurdish language - there isn't a Standard Limburgic Language either, at least not one that is accepted anywhere. Yet there is one Limburgic language. I don't really know whether you should denote these variants (yes: variants) as dialects or seperate language - the definition for "language" is all but fixed, as you know, but I do know the ku: Wikipedia allows them all. Caesarion 08:52, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
  • support - I support the Zazaki-wikipedia! Atakan (N) 12:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


  • support - I'm a Greek and a friend of a Zaza-family for years in Berlin. I know the cultural differences between the Turks, Kurds and Zazas very well.


Turkey is a huge country; e.g. it is three times larger than Germany. There are several regions with varying cultures and different languages. I mean, Turkey is a multiracial country. Although the ethnic people have partly common similararities, but the languages are enormous differntly from each other, so much that they compatible together. So long as the Kurds degrade the Zazaish language as a dialect, nobody of the Zazas would write into the Kurdish-wikipedia. I looked at ku.-wikipedia under Zazaki category and there are only some biographies about a few authors, they have primary Kurdish as mother tongue. And these mentioned texts are just copied fron an other internet site. vardis 15:25, 6 February 2006

  • support - I support the Zazaki-Wikipedia! baboali 20:14, 10 February 2006


  • Strong Opposee! - The Zazas are a part of the kurdish culture and have the same root with the kurds. The most Zazas see themselves as kurds! Zazas and the kurds are the same people, only the language is different. But in the Kurdish-Wikipedia are categories for every dialect, who everybody write in its own dialect. The People, that will a seperate wikipedia for Zazaki, are not interested in writing of Zazaki-Articles. They only will split the kurdish people! --83.164.10.225 18:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - Zaza is a kurdish Dialect--84.61.72.159 18:27, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


  • Oppose strongly oppose. Zazas are Kurds. The greatest rebellions of kurds were from zazas. 1920 Sheikh Saed, 1925 Qochgiri and 1938 Dersim. The survivor of Dersim rebellion was Nuri Dersimi and he wrote 2 books about alavi Kurds and he wrote also that zazas are kurds and 80.000 Humans fought for liberty of Kurdistan and died. --Skywalker us 00:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose I think it is not necessary, because they are Kurds. see: zazaki.org --RoboDoc 00:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose I think we should keep out the political conflicts and not support separatism --New Nirvana 14:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose Seyit Riza and other Zazaki- speaking kurdish heros have shown us in the history which zazas are and which their native country is.

They are definitely KURDS!--84.113.55.73 14:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Oppose Zazas are Kurds.--213.39.208.241 15:28, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Strong support! Zazaki is not Kurdish!
You slave of the turkish imperialism, why you delete the oppose-posts, you child. Seyid Riza and other 100.000 zazaish-speaking Kurds are dead for a KURDISTAN!!!


"STRONG OPPOSE" ZAZAKI IS JUST A DIALECT OF THE KURDISH LANGUAGE (just like kurmanci, gorani and sorani)--84.152.107.53 11:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)S. Arslan from Munich


oppose f**k you bitches, f**k you turks I speak Zaza , i'm Kurd, i'm Kurdistan --83.76.91.150 12:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)viva la Kurdistan forever--83.76.91.150 12:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


OPPOSE OPPOSE OPPOSE !!!!!!--!!!!!--84.152.107.53 15:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


OPPOSE What ist dis Zaza is Kurdisch, Iam Zaza speaking iam Kurd okey Kurdisch. 84.130.228.77

Oppose - Zaza is kurdish!! And will always remain Kurdish!!!!Servan--84.132.242.239 15:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Oppose Most of the "Zazakî" speakers declare "Zazaish" as a Kurdish language. Many of the intellectual Zaza-Kurds have written texts about the Zazas and in their opinoin IS "Zazakî" a kurdish language (e.g. Mûnzûr Chem) and their works were not posted (i think because they are written in Turkish).

At the time of the kurdish rebellions Seyîd Riza, the last (zaza) kurdish leader, writ a letter to the world community. He hoped for help and called the Zazaish people "Kurds" like the other kurdish groups. Many movements started then, to split the kurdish nation on the rat of the enemys of a stable kurdish alliance. It is a diffamation to say that the old kurdish Intellectuals and leaders did'nt know that they were'nt a part of the kurdish people and THAT were the reason of they called themselfs "Kurds". The kurdish "Zazas" know, that their language is other than for example Kurmanji, but the kurdish language in whole is very rich. It is not an argument to say: The "Zaza" are an elsewire nation, they have another language: 1.) That's not correct 2.) The Word "Ethnic Unity" describes a oneness of people, on the basis of the Culture, Origin OR language. Those are 3 things on which this is based. And on that account the "Zaza" Kurds cannot be departed from, because the 3 preconditions to BE a nation are fulfilled, in other words: Other kurdish Groups are on par with them. So there are many REAL EXISTING nations, which fulfill these precondicions as much as Kurds.




Since now there was not a Zazaic nationalism, only a kurdish, why? Let's argue, what is the precondition to be a nation:

1.) I think first of all to have a "belong together" feeling

2.) Second to have the same Culture and Lifestyle




To cause a Zazaic nationalism thereby, insomuch the Zaza language is another language, is in my position a new kind of splitting the kurdish nation and weakening their chances for a life in freedom. In addition of this i think, it is a "Cultural-discrimination", such kind of "Lingualism", as the majority of the Zaza speakers see themselfs as kurds. The result of Genetic analyses (the links were posted in the "Zaza" article) of the Zaza speaker Kurds showed us, that there are'nt differeces between this groups. And NO, this is NOT a matter for me to say: Zazas are Kurds! but a related perception like to say "Zazas are'nt Kurds because their language is diffrent". Who says that kurdish must be the one speechsector "Bahdinanî" or "Kurmanjî"? It could be so, but i have not read even one scientific resource to clear that. Even if that's a fact. "Zazas" are a Part of the Kurds is a fact, too (because of the fulfilled preconditions to be a ethnic grop as i wrote).

--Under the name "Kurdî" tere are 3 different Languages, which are seperated. A new Zazakî box is written by a Zaza Kurd, and this makes me happy. I can't see anything like "favored" dialects. The same for all.--

Upshot: The divulgers of the "Zazaistan" nationalism want to assimilate a big part of the Zazakî speakers and a slotted Wikipedia would be only the beginning! This will angry most of the Zazas like me! To split the kurdish wikipedia would make "Wikipedia" a political "Toy" for the propaganda of the Zazaistanian people! Well, i'AM still against this splitting because of the on the top mentioned reasons, but IF you decide to split it in two (or three of four...), then (to prevent this) there (on the main side) must be a visible mark, which shows, that "Zazakî" IS a kurdish language or AT LEAST, that "Zaza speakers" are a piece of the Kurds. There is still a lot to say about, but i think this is enough.

Bye.--80.171.6.52 18:02, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Oppose I share the opinion of Erdal Ronahî. We (I am also a zazaish kurd) define us as Kurds. --85.181.67.17 19:34, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


It's curious to see that about 15 TURKISH Wikipedians had voted FOR a Zazaish Wikipedia (atakan 2 times. From 17:50 o'clock to 22:58, they've added their support-votes. On the same day. But why?


--Ciwan 13:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I blame strongly this savage behaviour! As you see, how rude and rough our Kurdish „friends“ are fundamentally. That was bound to happen. I can’t help laughing about this. They always must have the latest word. This is the important reason, why the cooperation with them don’t work. Strictly speaking they know generally, that Zazaki is a different language. But it is all about Kurdish nationalism! Their dream is a grand Kurdistan. Therefore they claim the Zazaish history and culture. They also add the Gorans and Lurs to the Kurds. Be that as it may the Kurmanjs and Sorans build together a Kurdish nationalism, but the Zazas, Gorans and Lurs should definitely not add to the so-called Kurds. This artificial attempt will never come true, because it is an unjust act against this ethnic groups. The mentioned ethnics have separately their own cultures, languages and dialects.mirzali 11:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Indifferent - Could you guys please stop (supporters and opposers)? The question how Zazaki and Kurdish are related is completely irrelevant to whether there should be a Zazaki Wikipedia. Check the present list of Wikipedias and there are lots of Wikipedias in languages which are considered dialects of other languages. IT DOES NOT MATTER. The question to be answered here is: Will there be enough contributions to found an active and working Wikipedia in Zazaki. A good way to convince people this is true will be behaving like responsible adults. --Mkill 20:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

  • support - I support the Zazaki-Wikipedia! --Usen 18:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I am Zaza Speaking. and i feel me kurdish. I Born Kurdish I Die Kurdish

Biji Kurdistan.

  • I support' the opinion of the opposers. Zazakî is a kurdish language! --84.61.70.23 15:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
  • support - I support the Zazaki-Wikipedia! The Zaza people would not say, that they were Kurds. These are in real Kurds, they cheat here. --Hesen 14:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
  • SUPPORT - Zazaish is a own language and not a dialect of Kurdish. The grammar, the phonetics and vokubular in Zazaish is completely differently. Even English and German are closer itself. A Zaza can not unterstand Kurdish. --Sobê 17:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak support On closer inspection, I see that many, including Ethnologue, do not classify it as a group of Kurdish dialects but rather alongside it. However, the fact that there is an opportunity to write in Zazaki on the Kurdish Wikipedia which no-one even seemed to have attempted to use remains. Make a flourishing test Wikipedia here on meta (see Test-wp) and see if you can convince me.

Support nl:Boudewijn Idema, 13:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Support Mahmoud 05:59, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

  • support - I support the Zazaki-Wikipedia! yemose 18:29, 20 March 2006 (UTC)


  • Zazaish is structurally quite distinct from Kurdish, so I hope it eventually has a separate wikipedia. It's a pity about the voting performance here though - we really don't know how much native speaker support there is. Starting a test-wiki, either on meta or on the Kurdish wikipedia, may help persuade us of the sincerity of this request. --Chamdarae 17:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


Thanks you all, that you see the truth finally . There is many people thay can speaking perfekt zazaish. In some zazaish boards, some people are ready writing long texts. See as example here: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62148/messages/23376.htm
This is a very long text in zazaish, its from the author of http://www.kormiskan.info.se/. He writes always such long texts. He also will supporting the zazaish Wikipedia. --Sobê 18:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Strongest oppose possible. I'll reserve judgement about the linguistic status of Zazaki. Maybe it's a separte language, maybe it's a dialect of Kurdish, that's totally irrelevant here. What matters, is that there are already Wikipedia pages in Zazaki, and you can write any page on any topic in Zazaki already at ku.wp. Feel free to go ahead and accuse me of being a "Kurdish nationalist", even though I don't speak a word of Kurdish. But I do know that Sayyid Reza, a Zaza, fought and died for Kurdistan... --Node ue 07:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
The grammer, the phonetics and also the vocubulary of Zazaki are COMPLETLY differently! Here it goes sighting around facts and not around political! --Sobê 11:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Who the fcuk cares??? I don't care whether or not Zazaki is a language. Whatever. What I do care about is that you guys are already free to write as many articles in Zazaki as you want, here. There is no need to create a new Wiki for you. If it's a separate language, it doesn't matter either way. --Node ue 23:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Its a seperate Language and NOT Kurdish, why we thus write in the KURDISH Wikipedia?? --Sobê 19:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Here is the Zazaki Test Wikipedia[edit]

Yes, i am not a proposer. Nevertheless i created now a test-wp in Zazaki. --Sobê 19:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/diq
Dear „Sobê“!
Who gave you the consent to create so precipitated a Zazaki Test-wp? Besides the –uncompleted- preface text was my proposal to Maviulke12. You simply copied this and changed it in your own dialect?! But you are not the proposer. Please, don’t! Let it better the competent persons do. That will not do, just to write some words or translate these into Turkish. You have to explain the terms completely in Zazaish. It must also be written in a common Zaza language and not in any dialects. --mirzali 14:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
I write in the history, that I copied the texts from the proposer Maviulke12! I changed NOTHING in the text!
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Test-wp/diq&action=history
If you will a zazaish wikipedia, then DOES which! I only started the test-wp, that YOU can WORK! I do not see a sense waiting therein so for a long time for nothing. Its better for all, that the supporters here can planing their ideas in a test-wp.
The Users above say: "Make a flourishing test Wikipedia here on meta (see Test-wp) and see if you can convince me." And i only opened the test-wp, that YOU have a signal, to can work and do not further wait. It does NOT make differentiated between who it opened. It is important that the project PRECEDES. I wanted to only help you. You do not have to be equivalent insulting! --Sobê 15:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Did you understand anything my friend? If you had read attentively on discussion page from Maviulke12, you would see… IT IS MY TEXT! Have you ever asked me or maviulke12 before using this? NO! And it was not completed, because the orthography was bound to correct by a competent person, like asmen. --mirzali 21:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
It is unimportantly of whom the text is, but that there are one!
In the test-wp is a edit-function and you can edit when you want and correct the text my friend. That is not the world fall. Error can one at any time problem-free correct.
UPDATE: Now I wrote in the discussion that the text is of you. ;-) --Sobê 12:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Test-wp/diq
Thank you very much for your effort my friend! :-)--mirzali 10:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

The Kurds vandalize permanently our project on Test-wp/diq, steal our texts and put them to their page (Kurdish Wikipedia). This is an enormous shameless act, it must be stopped!!! --mirzali 02:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The Kurds already occupied unjustly the name Zazaki and they try now lay claim to some privileges. They make permanently some polemics! The fact is, that we don’t want see our Zazaki articles and layouts under ku. Wikipedia.
We want legitimately our independence. So long as the Kurds declare Zazaish as a so-called Kurdish dialect, their act is well valid as a stealing. Everything else what they say is hypocritical and not credible.
If they really wanted Zazaki flourishing, they could write some other new Zazaki texts by themselves –without copying or stealing from 'our' pages-. But, I know well that they can’t this, because Zazaish is a foreign language for them. The important thing to them is the Kurdish nationalism and not absolutely the Zaza language. In reality they were concerned that the Zazas better have to learn or speak Kurdish.--mirzali 02:47, 02 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The reason is that neutral sources such as Encyclopaedia Britannica classify Zazaki as a dialect of Kurdish [18]: Subdialects of Kurdish include Kermanshahi, Leki, Gurani, and Zaza .Heja helweda 02:36, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose for pragmatic, not fundamental, reasons. Just start writing in ku: and it will become clear whether there are enough quality contributors for Zazaki. In the current state, and given the amount of vandalism, name calling and rude behaviour which affected the Zazaki articles on quite some Wikipedias, I very much doubt that there is a large and diverse enough editorship. That is not meant as an insult against serious contributors, but it's collateral damage of the actions we've also seen on this voting page. en:Pjacobi/de:Pjacobi Lost my meta-password, damn. Didn't update the totals, as it is quite unclear, which vote should count.
Zazaki writers are already writing in the Zazaki-Test Wikipedia. You can see there how many contributors they have so far. So, I don’t understand why they should write under ku: Beside that, vandalism does not happen only here. Vandalism is happening in every part of Wikipedia, and the Zazaki Test-page is vandalized several times. --Hamad 01:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


  • I strongly support the Zazaki Wikipedia. Here is why I support the Zazaki Wikipedia:
1. The Zazaki-Test Wikipedia has over 100+ articles just in three weeks. Whereas, none of the Zazaki writers wrote even one single article in the ku: wikipedia since a section was opened there. Doesn’t this show that they are not willing to write there? So, why do force them to write there? Keep in mind Wikipedia is not paper that we are going to print thousands.


2. According to Ethnologue there are eight different Iranian language categories. [19] The relationship between Zazaki and Kurdish is the same as with other eight language categories. So, if Zazaki writers are not going to get their separate wikipedia, then why others like Mazandarani writers should get their separate wikipedia? Moreover, there are two Zazaki Dialects: Northern (Kirmajiki) and Southern (Dimli) Zazaki, and there are already great differences between them.


3. There are 23 supports so far and many of them are native speakers. The opposers are not even native speakers. Many of them oppose it because of political reasons, not for linguistic reasons. Even a dead language like Coptic is approved in a short time without any support from even one single native speaker. I don’t really understand why the Zazaki Wikipedia still stuck here.--Hamad 01:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Zazaki users deserve their own Wikipedia, if they feel it can help them to attract more users and provide a better service to users. The Kurdish Wikipedia does not use Zazaki in page titles, messages, user registration etc etc. So Zazaki users wouldn't feel at home using that wikipedia. The low number of articles in Zazaki tells it all. 15 article in all ! Mehrdad 16:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- I find it quite sad that some members of an oppressed group such as the Kurds, feel a need to lay claim to the efforts of Zazakis who simply wish to write in their native language. If there is enough support, then leave it at that. There is no reason to oppose it because of it's linguistic origins, even if the science is vague. If Kurdish people want to have the articles on the Kurdish WP, they should simply copy the Zazaki ones (once they are published), translate, and source them appropriately.
  • I must admit I had never heard about Zazaki before reading this request here. That's why I didn't have an opinion on this one so far. Having gathered some information now I would actually support a Zazaki Wikipedia - if there weren't those annoying voting irregularities (on both sides, presumably)! There seems to be convincing evidence that Zazaki is to be considered a separate language from Kurdish (or the group of Kurdish dialects, for that matter). Therefore, hosting Zazaki articles at ku-WP is indeed not useful. I believe that many of the opposing votes here are probably due to a lack of information. However, experience shows that fake pro votes usually discredit requests so much that the community is very unlikely to ever approve such requests. I'd really recommend to withdraw all fake votes as a fair request will have a much better chance of being regarded with favor and eventually approved by the community. Arbeo 14:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi Arbeo, we already anulated those votes; they are not counted. However, I don't believe a Zaza did this foolish act. --Maviulke12 15:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
OK, it's just that the whole request has become pretty complex and it was a little hard to tell what counts and what doesn't. I don't say it was a Zaza - I only saw a few votes that looked fishy and in the past a couple of requests got torpedoed because of that. If somebody has plenty of time, one make a numbered vote summary at the beginning of the request (like in the Upper Silesian one), too. That way, the whole thing would gain clarity. Oh, by the way:
  • Support - Arbeo 14:13, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support: Zazaki has never been a widespread written language. This is a chance to improve itself independently from Kurmanji. I don't care whether Zazaki is a dialect of Zimane Kurdi or not, this is a political discussion rather than a linguistic one. Behemoth 01:58, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Here is more about Zazaki:



  • I Support Zazaki Wikipedia strongly. Too much and inserious politics is done here. Even many dialects have an own section, but an acknowledged langauge like Zazaki not, why? Who gave especially the Kurdish nationalists the to oppose when they self can't create a Zazaki Wikipedia even under kurdish, having done nothing for that language, nobody did contribute to the Zazaki section under kurdish, but the Zazaki Test Wikipedia succeeded with over 100 Articles in 3 weeks!

Once again, don't come with slogans or bad words or political nationalistic arguments. By the way: Sure, there are many young Zazas who know themselves as Turks or Kurds but they can't even talk their language. On the other hand there isn't any strong and wide political movement for the Zazas, i.e. no other alternative as to chose the Turkish or Kurdish side. NONE of our older people especially the ones who don't speak Turkish, do signify themself as Turk or Kurd, they refuse the Turkish or Kurdish identification for themselves. That is the real argument from our authentic Zaza-people. The Kurds are called Kirdas or Kurmanc. For Node: Sheikh Said from Palu or Seyid Riza from Dersim did never fight for a Kurdistan. The Kurds didn't even hepl them! Dr. Hüseyin Caglayan and many other Zaza intellectuals made interviews with the witnesses of that time, including Seyid Riza's daughter and grandchildren. He asked each of them also, if it's true what other people claim that Seyid Riza's aim was Kurdistan, all of them refuse that. Look: Dr. Hüseyin Caglayan: 38 ra jü pelge. Istanbul, Tij Yayinlari, 500 s.

Sima ziwanê ma nêzanê, yenê itya de linge erzenê ziwanê ma ver. Eybo Eybo! --Adiresewe

  • support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --195.93.60.97 19:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

ZAZA_UMUT  :*support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --62.245.207.18 21:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Hawar Tornêcengi : *support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --84.58.12.57 23:08, 4 May 2006 (UTC) Strongly *Support I do strongly support Zazaki Wikipedia...

  • support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --Bertal 11:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC) Bertal
  • support -- I support Zazaki Wikipedia --195.33.98.148 15:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support I do strongly support Zazaki Wikipedia...-Necati Balpayam
  • Support -- I support zaza.wikipedia.org Zazaki is related to Avestan and Old Persian languages; it is suppressed and forbidden by colonial rulers. Adirê Embaz 5 may 2006 (UTC)
  • Support I strongly support Zazaki Wikipedia...-Murat
  • Support Zazaki and Kurdi are very different each other. Ukrainish and Russisch also have some similarities but they are seperated. Also Azerbaijan and Turkish(they are 80% same) Wikipedia are seperated. 80.145.126.226 13:12, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support I strongly support Zazaki Wikipedia forever,Zazaish is my Life,I love Zazaish...Roberd Waldinger/Ober Bayern
  • Daraheni recently solicited me to change my vote. I'm still basically neutral on this. I'm not sure there is really a gain in separating this from other Kurdish languages, but if there are more than half a dozen people who will each commit to actively working on this once it's created, I guess I'd change to support. - Jmabel 06:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Support --Reza 18:50, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Support --81.215.169.136 09:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- Kojpiš Anton (kojpish@bk.ru)--194.158.213.210 20:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Support --218

Domain Name[edit]

The domain name for Zazaki will (if it is approved) be diq.wikipedia.org. zzz is not a correct code (from ISO-639). However you feel about it, that is what it will be. Daniel () Check out Wikiscope! 22:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Ethnologue's "diq" code describes only one dialect of the Zazaki Language. However, three are two more dialects. If we use "diq.wikipedia.org", we exclude possible contributors from other Zazaki dialects. This would be a big problem for the Zazaki Wikipedia since we need to bring more editors to make this project successful. I hope admins and developers reconsider this issue. --Maviulke12 13:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Maviülke12. You can also consult the Zaza-Language Institute in Frankfurt (www.zazaki-institut.de) or for example the Iranist Dr. Ludwig Paul ( Ludwig.Paul ad uni-hamburg.de ), who published his doctor thesis about the Zaza-Language and his dialects If necessary, I'll request him to write to you. I think, sil.org should not be taken as the only competent base for languages. --Asmen 19:41, 3 September 2006 (CET)

Hello...According to Ethnologue Zazaki language has two dialects, and their language-codes are diq (Southern Zazaki) and kiu (Northern Zazaki). And Ethnologue has the code zza now, for the macrolanguage Zazaki by including both diq and kiu language codes of Zazaki dialects. Can you change the doamin diq.wikipedia.org into zza.wikipedia.org. Then you can redirect the diq.wikipedia.org to zza.wikipedia.org..Thanks..--Belekvor 20:36, 22 March 2008 (UTC)