Requests for new languages/Wikisource Venetian

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Venetian Wikisource[edit]

main page Requests for new languages (Wikisource Venetian)
submitted verification final decision
Application-certificate.svg This proposal has been approved.
The Board of Trustees and language committee have deemed that there is sufficient grounds and community to create the new language project. (See an unofficial analysis of this request.)

Proposal summary
Please read the handbook for requesters for help using this template correctly.

Venetian is a language spoken by 2 million people in north-eastern Italy, coastal Croatia and Slovenia and some regions of Brasil. The Venetian literature dates back to 13° century; the most important author is the famous playwright Carlo Goldoni. Other notable authors are the playwright Angelo Beolco nicknamed "Ruzante", the famous adventurer Giacomo Casanova, the 18° century poet Anton Maria Lamberti (who wrote some well-known Venetian songs, like La biondina in gondoleta) and contemporary poets Biagio Marin and Andrea Zanzotto. Candalua 12:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Arguments in favour[edit]

  1. Venetian literature is really much wider than many people think: by far on the multilingual Wikisource we've got more than 600 pages by 23 different authors, and the work is far to be completed.
  2. Venetian and Italian are two distinct languages. Currently, some texts are hosted by the Italian Wikisource, but now that we've got a large number of Venetian texts, there is no reason we should keep Venetian and Italian texts in the same place.
  3. Venetian was the official language (together with Latin and Italian) of the Most Serene Republic of Venice, so there are a lot of interesting documents (around 2.000.000 folder in the "Archivio" in Venece) written in Venetian: international treaties, reports from ambassadors and so on.
  4. Venetian and Talian (Venetian spoken in Brasil by the emigrates from Venetia) is a large human community of around 6 million people ( accordingly to the Ethonologue catalog of the languages - SIL/UNESCO 2010) and is spoken in Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Albania, Romany, Brasil, Mexico etc (see official data [1].
  5. Venetian language is studied by many universities, not only in Italy, as its necessary to study the romance languages history and the Venice's Republic documents, so a separate wikisource will be a useful and used instrument also for reserchers around the world.
  6. Venetian Wikipedia is doing fairly well (7.600 articles by far) and there is a community than can help with this new project.

Candalua 12:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

  • yep, there's a lot of content in vec lang on wikisource.org, I support this req--Nick1915 - all you want 14:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree with Nick1915 and with the dog of the grape. On it.wikisource we already have some more text in Venetian, and I was waiting for this moment to come. My only concern is about continuity, but Candalua proved to be active and fairly able. Time is on our side. - εΔω 14:49, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree! --Accurimbono 17:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree. All requirements accomplished. Hundreds of texts at oldwikisource, and more that are coming those day. Don't seem a wiki that is going to be abandoned so easy by its contributors. Good job! -Aleator (talk) 21:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Two years have passed. There are thousands [sic] of pages and still today and tomorrow growing. So?? -Aleator (talk) 23:22, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
  • I agreee weeeelll --.snoopy. 07:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I am concerned whether there will be enough newly added texts to sustain the project, but there are experienced it.ws supporting this new project, and the article about Venetian literature is well developed and pagescans have been identified below. John Vandenberg 12:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
    According to oldwikisource:WS:LANG, Venetian is the third largest collection still in the incubator with 1,130 pages. John Vandenberg 10:57, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
  • support this collection of texts is huge. it does not make sense to keep it on ws.org ThomasV 15:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree, I'm using it for my work --Sguatero 2:11, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
  • support, too active to stay on the oldwikisource ;) Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 15:03, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Arguments against[edit]

Other discussion[edit]

Currently 48.59% of the MediaWiki messages and 1.21% of the messages used by the Wikimedia Foundation have been localised. Please help the future Wikisource and the current Commons by localising your language at Betawiki. Thanks, GerardM 13:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

All Mediawiki messages translated. Candalua 14:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

All messages used by the Wikimedia Foundation are now localised. Candalua 21:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Where are the Venetian works on it.wikisource, and how many individual works are to be found there? Can someone update the count of individual Venetian works on oldwikisource? Are current Italians able to easily understand Venetian texts? John Vandenberg 11:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, on it.ws I found these works in Venetian:

7 traditional songs:

and 1 play by Carlo Goldoni:

  • I pettegolezzi delle donne (not entirely in Venetian, some characters speak Italian, but the largest part of the text is Venetian)

The number of individual works can be found here and is now 555, while the number of pages (excluding service pages) is around 1000. So there's really a lot of stuff!

Italians do not understand easily the Venetian language; they can read it to a certain extent if the text is well commented (see for example I Rusteghi by Carlo Goldoni; the author added a lot of footnotes to make it intelligible for Italian readers. Obviously it's still a tour de force for a non-Venetian to read it, since Venetian is really different from Italian, it's a whole different language).

I hope that this project can be approved soon, I think it really deserves it! Cheers, Candalua 13:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for answering those questions. It looks like the project will succeed if it is started. Are there any texts with pagescans - i.e. images from printed books? John Vandenberg 15:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

You pretend too much! :) Currently there aren't any. Some works (roughly 120 pages) were taken from pagescans found here, maybe we can take those images and upload them? Candalua 22:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. Do not upload the images separately! Compile the 245 images into a DjVu file, and upload the DjVU file to commons. If you need help, ask. Are any of these in Venetian? Were the periodicals of w:Ateneo Veneto published in Venetian, Italian, or both? or more? (I have just created this English Wikipedia article - any errors are mine)
Are there any important periodicals being written that were written in Venetian, or are written in Venetian today? I am trying to understand the size of the corpus of literature that this subdomain will hold. John Vandenberg 02:29, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

No, the files in that link and the periodicals of Ateneo Veneto are all in Italian. Two important periodicals written in Venetian are Quatro Ciacoe, published every month, and Raixe Venete, published every 2 months. About the literature in Venetian language, I wrote this page (only vec and it, sorry, maybe someday I will translate it to English). Candalua 09:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Oddly enough, the Google Translation from Italian is almost readable. John Vandenberg 11:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I have made a start on w:Venetian literature, created w:Quatro Ciacoe and w:Raixe Venete (year of establishment missing), and found it interesting to read w:it:Wikipedia:Pagine da cancellare/Raixe Venete, which was a very even discussion, eventually deciding to delete.
I havent seen any mention of Venetian periodicals that would be public domain, and you havent yet replied to my question about the archive.org link. John Vandenberg 16:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm very busy these days. The stuff on the archive.org link is all in Italian. I don't have many informations about periodicals published in the past; I know that starting from the 18° century were published some "Lunari" or "Almanacchi", often called "Schiesoni" at the time (almanacs, i.e. calendars with short poems, tales and proverbs associated with every day or week or month of the year). An author named Giovanni Pozzobon published the "Schieson Trevisan" from 1744 onwards, and others were published (the "Schieson Venezian", the "Schieson Vicentino"...), but I don't know much about this material apart from the names, sorry. Thank you very much for your work in w:Venetian literature! Cheers, Candalua 19:56, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Localization is complete[edit]

  • According to translatewiki.net statistics, 100% of MediaWiki messages and 100% of Extensions used by Wikimedia messages are translated. This satisfies the localization requirement for creating the project. --Amir E. Aharoni 15:31, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Approval[edit]

The project has been approved by the Language committee and the WMF Board. Please fill the next questionnaire, so we can give the necessary data for opening the project: --Amir E. Aharoni 07:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

  • Language code: vec
  • Site url: vec.wikisource.org
  • Project name (The word "Wikisource" in this language): there's no easy translation, "Wikisource" is ok
  • Project namespace (usually the same as the project name): Wikisource
  • Project talk namespace: "Discussion Wikisource"
  • Project logo (135x135 PNG image generated from some decent SVG image; see foundation:Wikimedia official marks): er, I guess you can use the standard logo: [2]?
  • Default project timezone (replace TZN with the timezone name, like CET and UTC+-X with difference between your TZ and UTC): CET
  • Interwiki text (the name of this language as it will appear in the list of interlanguage links): vèneto
    Thank you.
    Bugzilla request filed: mediazilla:25696.
    Good luck!
    (/me is dreaming about visiting Venice and learning this curious language.) --Amir E. Aharoni 18:24, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Cheers from BigPapaJimmy to SmallBabyVec. Actually Venetians are naturally quite keen about spirits :D, I'd better not investigate what's inside that sippy cup!

Cheers to our new wikisource, a not so small one!

I'm looking forward to proofread and fill it with new (PD) texts. It's been a long way, but now we're on the road!

Amir, when you are going to visit Venice, just contact me (I'm from Verona and I'll be happy to help you through Venetian language, which to an Italian ear is not too hard to understand (apart many bizarre lexical diatopic variables). εΔω 09:22, 14 November 2010 (UTC)