Talk:Errors in the Wikipedia logo/Archive 1

Ready for wider discussion?

Do you want to put this up as a notification on the meta main page and/or go for a wide audience? en:User talk:Ambuj.Saxena/Wikipedia-logo also has links to quite a number of past discussions that we should make sure we are taking into account. - Taxman 01:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

• The logo is really quite important. Inaccuracies there could really send a bad message. ----Anonymous Dissident^Talk 06:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Did anyone announced to all Wikipedias of each language used in the logo? Japanese Wikipedia has received a message. Chinese WP was sent a message by a Japanese user, but no one has replied yet.--Widehawk 23:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Another mistake

Hi Wikipedians. I think our logo has one more mistake. The Chinese character "祖" in the logo is now consisted of koromo-hen (衤). But it's mistake as far as I know. Proper "祖" must be consisted of shimesu-hen (礻). Perhaps, it seems a trivial mistake for the people who don't use Chinese characters in everyday life. However, this is a big mistake as much as replacing "b" with "d", or "ワ" with "ウ". You should fix also this mistake. --Kasuga 15:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

--Kasuga 16:06, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I found the case what 祖 is composed of 衤[1]. It might be not a mistake (though I don't know how the character is different from another one).--Kasuga 21:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The pronounciation of 袓 is "jǔ" [2][3], and 祖 is "jiē" in Standard Mandarin. I don't know why 祖 or 袓 is for "wikipedia".--Nopira 09:57, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It's probably just an unfamiliar character. Not all letters stand for Wikipedia. --Kjoonlee 14:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

See mailarchive:foundation-l/2008-July/044782.html, it might shed some light on this issue. --Waldir 10:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Kannada/Telugu piece

That mysterious piece below the Chinese one and beside the Hebrew resh seems to be either Telugu or Kannada (I wish this had been documented!). These guys say it is Kannada, and what's more they say "it does not make [sense] at all". They gave two suggested replacements; I can't find the first one (might be U+0C8F, ಏ), the second seems to be U+0CB5 with combining U+0CD6 (I think? The combining character looks more like a U+0CEE in their image, but that doesn't combine; may be a font thing), which is ವೖ. I have left a note on their page asking for help identifying the character. --Tiny plastic Grey Knight 10:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

It is clearly Kannada va with a i diacritic vowel on top. You can see it may have been based on Omniglot information: www.omniglot.com/writing/kannada.htm. -- User:75.22.145.36 (talk)

Everywhere I looked (including the Kannada Wikipedia) it seemed that the "i" was supposed to attach to the bottom right rather than on top; maybe the top is a variant? Anyway, I'll make up an image with the bottom-right version and we can run it past the Kannada Wikipedians to see what they say, presumably they know best! --Tiny plastic Grey Knight 09:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Mystery piece below Devanagari (and table)

The piece below the Devanagari one is, as far as I know, also a mystery. It vaguely resembles Georgian capital vin (U+10A5) -- which would at least be another "wi" piece -- but clearly isn't it. Anyway, here's a table of my research.

Armenian capital hiwn (U+0552)	Ւ
Khmer lô (U+179B)	ល			Katakana u+(i) (U+30A6, U+30A3)	ウィ	Klingon r (U+FE81, PUA)	ﺁ
Tibetan wa+i (U+0F5D, U+0F72)	ཝི	Greek capital omega+tonos (U+038F)	Ώ	Wikipedia W (U+0057)	W	Arabic Yeh underdots (U+06D1)	ۑ
Devanagari va+i (U+0935, U+093F)	वि	Chinese U+8893	袓	Cyrillic capital short I (U+0419)	Й	Hangul U+C704	위
???		Kannada U+0C8F or U+0CB5, U+0CD6	ಏ/ವೖ	Hebrew resh (U+05E8)	ר	Thai cho ching (U+0E09)	ฉ

--Tiny plastic Grey Knight 11:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, this table uses what I hope are the "corrected" values for the Japanese and Devanagari pieces. --Tiny plastic Grey Knight 12:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Slightly offtopic, but since Klingon wikipedia was thrown out, why do we have Klingon in the logo? Waerth 13:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Probably for the same reason the Devanagari issue was never fixed, nobody could be bothered to remake the image! ;-). I'm intending to produce an actual image based on this research to fix the Devanagari issue and use "wi" (or the equivalent) for all of the pieces; I might include "replace the tlhIngan Hol piece" as an optional extra during that proposal once I get to it. What should replace it? Probably the relevant character from the largest Wikipedia whose language isn't already so represented.

If I don't get this "mystery piece" figured out, I'm going to replace it with the Georgian character mentioned earlier, if only so that if anyone asks we can say "Oh yes, that character is ____" (which we currently can't seem to pull off :-/). --Tiny plastic Grey Knight 11:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposed revised characters

Based on the characters used in the various language Wikipedias. Where a second character's name appears in parentheses, it seems to be a combining or necessary character. The other languages could drop the "i"-analogue if desired.

Armenian vew+ini (U+054E, U+056B)	Վի
Khmer vo+(i) (U+179C, U+17B7)	វិ			Katakana u+(i) (U+30A6, U+30A3)	ウィ	Amharic we (U+12CD)	ው
Tibetan (main page) wa+(i) (U+0F5D, U+0F72)	ཝི	Greek beta+iota (U+03B2, U+03B9)	βι	Wikipedia W (U+0057)	W	Arabic waw+yeh (U+0648, U+064A)	وي
Devanagari va+(i) (U+0935, U+093F)	वि	Chinese (U+7DAD)	維	Cyrillic ve+small i (U+0432,U+0438)	ви	Hangul (U+C704)	위
Georgian vin+in (U+10D5, U+10D8)	ვი	Kannada va+(i) (U+0CB5, U+0CBF)	ವಿ	Hebrew waw+yod (U+05D5, U+05D9)	וי	Thai wo waen+(sara i) (U+0E27, U+0E34)	วิ

--Tiny plastic Grey Knight 17:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I linked to the relevant localised version of en:Wikipedia, except for the Tibetan Wikipedia which doesn't have such a page yet. Should probably run all these past those Wikipedias' communities to make sure everything's correct. --Tiny plastic Grey Knight 08:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Without the "unnecessaries" (problem: the Cyrillic and Greek ones look very similar! Oh well, it would be worse if I had used uppercase):

Armenian vew (U+054E)	Վ
Khmer vo+(i) (U+179C, U+17B7)	វិ			Katakana u+(i) (U+30A6, U+30A3)	ウィ	Amharic we (U+12CD)	ው
Tibetan (main page) wa+(i) (U+0F5D, U+0F72)	ཝི	Greek beta (U+03B2)	β	Wikipedia W (U+0057)	W	Arabic waw (U+0648)	و
Devanagari va+(i) (U+0935, U+093F)	वि	Chinese (U+7DAD)	維	Cyrillic ve (U+0432)	в	Hangul (U+C704)	위
Georgian vin (U+10D5)	ვ	Kannada va+(i) (U+0CB5, U+0CBF)	ವಿ	Hebrew waw (U+05D5)	ו	Thai wo waen+(sara i) (U+0E27, U+0E34)	วิ

I am going to build images for the various possibilities and then contact the WMF for provisional "we don't completely hate this idea" before opening it up to all the Wikipedias for full discussion. I guess the Embassies will be handy for that part! --Tiny plastic Grey Knight 12:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Kindly note Image:Hangul wi.svg is available for your use. Thanks. --Kjoonlee 09:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Though the fonts of some letters are serif fonts, the font of Hangul is a gothic font. I think it doesn't match... The font of Japanese Kana seems to be changed through the discussion.--Widehawk 23:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The devanagari of the table above is still incorrect; the code order is opposite. It is va+i (U+0935, U+093F) वि, not i+va. If your browser can handle it properly, you will see the va part (व) at the right and the i part (ि) at the left. The code order and the character placement are opposite in this case. - TAKASUGI Shinji 02:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I corrected that in the tables, apparently the browser I was using back then was wonky... I see it right now in FF 3.0, and will take particular care with that one when making up an image. I'll be taking a net-break in a few days, and will see if I can get something put together during the break. --Tiny plastic Grey Knight 14:02, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, Image:Hangul wi.svg and Image:Hangul wi serif.svg are both available now. --Kjoonlee 14:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

ウィ aren't single katakana character. They are a syllable /wi/ composed by two katakana-s ウ (/u/) and ィ (a small character describing y-voiced semivowel with a vowel i). If the goal of this discussion is to confirm sane character on each script, ウ may be preferred for Japanese one, I suppose (although I'm fond of current pseudo-Japanese design ﾜｨ :-q). --Hatukanezumi 14:05, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

description	text	image
Katakana u (U+30A6)	ウ

--Hatukanezumi 22:34, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I'm leaving a link for an exchange about the Arabic and Hebrew change to waw', which don't seem to have been discussed at length here. mailarchive:foundation-l/2008-July/044805.html --Waldir 23:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Renewing discussion

Hi all, as the organization is interested in choosing characters for the hidden sides of the puzzle globe, we're also going to be working on correcting the viewed portion of the logo. I have incorporated the changes from this page into Wikipedia/Logo. Please participate in the discussion at Talk:Wikipedia/Logo instead of here. Thanks. Cary Bass ^demandez 19:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)