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Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Scots Wikipedia 2

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This is a proposal for closing and/or deleting a wiki hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation. It is subject to the current closing projects policy.

The proposal for closing sco: is rejected and the project will be kept open.

Proposal[edit]

In light of Requests for comment/Large scale language inaccuracies on the Scots Wikipedia and the subsequent non-action taken as a result of its findings, I am formally opening a request to close the Scots Wikipedia for the following reasons:

  1. Not organically repairing overhauling itself in any reasonable time frame
  2. Systematic rewriting attempts have failed
  3. Not a primary communication language or even a primary language period— I’m going to assume that the vast majority of Scots speakers also speak English fluently making its value as an encyclopedic medium dubious
  4. Almost mutually intelligible with [written] English (per the Language proposal policy); unlike other grandfathered-in wikis that fall afoul of this clause the Scots Wiki lacks a dedicated and serious community (as of May 2024 there are 77 “active” users, mostly new accounts with barely any edits) to justify its existence in light of its other failings
  5. Does more harm than good to the Scots community by severely corrupting the language, additionally making it worthless as a language learning resource

Because of these issues I think W:WP:TNT applies to the entire wiki. Passable articles can be sent to the incubator, but I also think any incarnation of ScoWiki is inevitably going to exist as a vanity project for a handful of non-native speakers (see point 3) and wouldn’t mourn its permanent closure. The best outlets for the Scots Leid on Wikimedia are primary learning resources like Wikibooks and Wikiversity, where people can actually learn how to speak the language before trying to write an entire project in it. Dronebogus (talk) 21:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dronebogus: Really, we've done fuck all? Deleting 30% of the wiki is "non-action"? And being "mutually intelligible" with English due to being sister languages means it disna deserve to exist? Should Dutch Wikipedia be closed because it's mutually understandable with German? Should Gaelic be closed because of Irish? Have ye got any actual proof or are ye peddling myths and falsehoods, like claiming all "ee" spellings are fake? I'm pretty sure the only monolingual Gaelic speakers are children after all, so we should be shutting down Gaelic Wikipedia as anybody old enough to use gdwp can use enwp. And claiming that only non-natives would use it, really? Yer really saying that speakers like myself have nae need for a Scots language resource like this? Or are ye going to say I canna speak Scots? CiphriusKane (talk) 21:35, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even read my proposal? Other mutually intelligible languages (Bosnian/Serbian, Afrikaans/Dutch) are tolerated because they have significant active communities; yours doesn’t. Dronebogus (talk) 21:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I read yer proposal. I read ye saying that the deletion of 15k bad articles means we've done naething. I read ye say that only non-natives would use it (which would make people like myself and Cobra 3000, the guy running the bimonthly editathons, non-speakers). And again, I ask, do ye have any proof to back up yer claims or are ye like that guy that screams that the wiki's killing the language because it disna have an option on Google Translate? CiphriusKane (talk) 21:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see over 2400 articles that “wis written by a body that haesna a guid grip on the leid”. I’m guessing that’s a vast understatement of how many dodgy articles there are. Maybe some of my initial reasoning was ignorant, unfair or based on outdated information, but my core proposal is still valid: if the wiki is mostly still crap, why not send it to incubator? Dronebogus (talk) 21:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If I recall correctly, that number was way higher in 2020 when we started our effort. You making assumptions and saying nothing has been done when we've spent 4 years fixing everything is quite frankly insulting. What you're proposing is going to undo all of the work we put into it.
I fought hard to avoid putting it in the incubator and have dedicated part of my life to hosting these Editathons to help fix the Wiki and what you're saying here is all of that time and effort I put into it meant absolutely nothing.
Besides, if we go by your logic that the Scots Wiki isn't needed because all of the speakers know English, then why have a Wiki, in Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish or Manx? Every speaker of those languages can also speak English.
What if we took it further, and say there's not even any need for German or French because English is learned as a second language by natives of those? Your logic is really faulty. Cobra 3000 (talk) 22:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly I would close most wikis that aren’t primary communication methods. Dronebogus (talk) 22:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, at least you're consistent. Cobra 3000 (talk) 22:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strang oppone - Fit ae heap ae bull. Claimin we'v deen fuck aa (wrang), aat naebidy uisin the wiki kin actual spik the leid (wrang), seyin it's hairmfu athoot giein ony evidence ti aat effeck, seyin there's nae editin commonity jist acause oor editors tend ti turn up sporadically, an ti tap it aa aff Dronebogus accuises me ae nae readin their proponal jist acause a'm nae jampin at the bit ti gree wi them. Jist deletin ahing lik yer proponin dis fuck aa ti help. The wiki haes problems bit iss proponal wid owerstate thaim, an the category aat Dronebogus pit ae airtin til haes airticles faar the Scots jist needs reddin up a bit an isna the disaster aat they'r tryin ti mak it oot ti be CiphriusKane (talk) 22:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A second this. Cobra 3000 (talk) 22:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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