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Make WM a namespace alias for the Meta (NS_PROJECT) namespace on Meta-Wiki[edit]

Hello. I'm shamelessly stealing Base's idea from his long list and I'd like to propose that we request that WM be set as a namespace alias for the Meta: namespace. Currently WM: is being used as a shortcut for the Meta namespace (ie: WM:RFH), and currently we've got:

MariaDB [metawiki_p]> SELECT page_id, page_namespace, page_title FROM page WHERE page_title LIKE "WM:%";
+----------+----------------+----------------------------------+
| page_id  | page_namespace | page_title                       |
+----------+----------------+----------------------------------+
| 10131622 |              0 | WM:2FA                           |
|  2244899 |              0 | WM:4WP                           |
|    75898 |              0 | WM:A                             |
|    75897 |              0 | WM:A/C                           |
|   173414 |              0 | WM:A/R                           |
|   229578 |              0 | WM:ABOUT                         |
|   139678 |              0 | WM:ADMIN                         |
|  2328446 |              0 | WM:AGE                           |
|   118330 |              0 | WM:ALPH                          |
|   135537 |              0 | WM:AWB                           |
|   101702 |              0 | WM:B                             |
|   136145 |              0 | WM:BABEL                         |
|  2327395 |              0 | WM:BIRTHDAY                      |
|   278933 |              0 | WM:BM                            |
|   101249 |              0 | WM:Birthday                      |
|   598528 |              0 | WM:CEEM                          |
|   601137 |              0 | WM:CEEWiki                       |
|   101713 |              0 | WM:CHU                           |
|  2229053 |              0 | WM:CNA                           |
| 10208286 |              0 | WM:CPP                           |
|    54475 |              0 | WM:CSD                           |
|  1194372 |              0 | WM:CU                            |
|   255501 |              0 | WM:DEL                           |
|    43926 |              0 | WM:DP                            |
|  2279924 |              0 | WM:EDP                           |
|   139132 |              0 | WM:FORUM                         |
|  2244901 |              0 | WM:FORWP                         |
|    59283 |              0 | WM:FRKO                          |
|   188720 |              0 | WM:FU                            |
|   163003 |              0 | WM:GR                            |
| 10426046 |              0 | WM:GR/I                          |
|    43886 |              0 | WM:H                             |
|    47697 |              0 | WM:HELP                          |
|    51130 |              0 | WM:I                             |
|    58438 |              0 | WM:I/D                           |
|    46924 |              0 | WM:I/RP                          |
|  3669614 |              0 | WM:I/he                          |
| 10186604 |              0 | WM:I/zh                          |
|    51129 |              0 | WM:IAS                           |
|    74195 |              0 | WM:IP                            |
|  8772240 |              0 | WM:IPBE                          |
|  2267438 |              0 | WM:IR2013                        |
|    47663 |              0 | WM:IRP                           |
|    86621 |              0 | WM:IW-WIKT                       |
|  1267848 |              0 | WM:LGBT                          |
|    63683 |              0 | WM:LPP                           |
|    51656 |              0 | WM:LS                            |
|   278937 |              0 | WM:M                             |
|  1532595 |              0 | WM:MED                           |
|  2994963 |              0 | WM:MMS                           |
| 10302180 |              0 | WM:MOREMENU                      |
|    64090 |              0 | WM:MSF                           |
|   133629 |              0 | WM:MSR                           |
|    41964 |              0 | WM:NOP                           |
|    54871 |              0 | WM:NOT                           |
|    72569 |              0 | WM:NPA                           |
|  8772263 |              0 | WM:OM                            |
|    41605 |              0 | WM:OP                            |
|    41967 |              0 | WM:OP/B                          |
|    45920 |              0 | WM:OP/H                          |
|    41607 |              0 | WM:OP/blacklist                  |
|    41606 |              0 | WM:OP/help                       |
|   179559 |              0 | WM:OPD                           |
|  1063718 |              0 | WM:OS                            |
|    88371 |              0 | WM:PAE                           |
|    51343 |              0 | WM:PAG                           |
| 10052896 |              0 | WM:PAGEVIEWS                     |
|    76476 |              0 | WM:PCBP                          |
|    44265 |              0 | WM:PCP                           |
|    47710 |              0 | WM:PF                            |
|    61978 |              0 | WM:PIE                           |
| 10248387 |              0 | WM:POTHI                         |
|    43883 |              0 | WM:PPM                           |
|    44456 |              0 | WM:PPM/2006                      |
|    60932 |              0 | WM:PUB                           |
|  2244495 |              0 | WM:R                             |
|   126081 |              0 | WM:RADIO                         |
|    43706 |              0 | WM:RFA                           |
|  4580127 |              0 | WM:RFAA                          |
|  6553027 |              0 | WM:RFC                           |
|    85334 |              0 | WM:RFCU                          |
|    43831 |              0 | WM:RFD                           |
|    44403 |              0 | WM:RFD/2003                      |
|    44378 |              0 | WM:RFD/2005                      |
|    44376 |              0 | WM:RFD/2006                      |
|    69963 |              0 | WM:RFD/2007                      |
|   130131 |              0 | WM:RFGP                          |
|    68728 |              0 | WM:RFH                           |
|  9977809 |              0 | WM:RFL                           |
|    46867 |              0 | WM:RFU                           |
|   588731 |              0 | WM:RfD                           |
|    75465 |              0 | WM:SALT                          |
|    79301 |              0 | WM:SAND                          |
|    43829 |              0 | WM:SB                            |
|   153705 |              0 | WM:SBL                           |
|   134247 |              0 | WM:SGP                           |
|    71708 |              0 | WM:SMW                           |
|    54879 |              0 | WM:SPAM                          |
| 10426050 |              0 | WM:STRAT2017                     |
| 10426049 |              0 | WM:STRAT2017/BAAU                |
|   939168 |              0 | WM:TA                            |
|   117751 |              0 | WM:TBL                           |
|    89014 |              0 | WM:TEMP                          |
| 10172057 |              0 | WM:TEMP/zh                       |
|   633917 |              0 | WM:TEST                          |
|    22487 |              0 | WM:TOTW                          |
|    89016 |              0 | WM:UC                            |
|  7486345 |              0 | WM:URB                           |
|    44981 |              0 | WM:VIE                           |
|  7486338 |              0 | WM:VN                            |
|  2234099 |              0 | WM:WIKINEWSIE                    |
| 10107197 |              0 | WM:WISHLIST2016                  |
| 10121391 |              0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Category_button  |
| 10124257 |              0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Heading          |
| 10107199 |              0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Proposal_button  |
| 10107247 |              0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Proposal_section |
|    44979 |              0 | WM:WM                            |
|   598383 |              0 | WM:WMDEBUDGET                    |
|  1246226 |              0 | WM:WMMED                         |
|    71671 |              0 | WM:БОПС                          |
|  7731371 |              1 | WM:I/D                           |
+----------+----------------+----------------------------------+
121 rows in set (4.53 sec)

What's your opinion? Regards, —MarcoAurelio (talk) 21:17, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Thanks for starting this, it would take ages for me to get to this. I definitely Support Support the change. See also quarry:/query/21730 — some things such as CAT, H, and T suggest that we might need more aliases. At least H and CAT are the ones I would support. T redirects are now used for Talk but it is counter-intuitive for me, I though it would be Template. Alas, I do not have a good solution for many other things the query returns, e.g. ヘルプ or Ndihmë. --Base (talk) 01:58, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
  • "WM" is a weird prefix and I don't understand its value. This wiki is Meta-Wiki, which would traditionally be "mw:", but that's used for MediaWiki.org, of course. "WM" much more naturally conveys "Wikimedia"; shortening "Meta" or "Meta-Wiki" to "WM" feels pretty strange and wrong to me. In many cases, the "WM:" prefix isn't actually pointing to the "Meta" meta-namespace here. For example, WM:FORUM goes to Wikimedia Forum, which is in the main namespace. "meta:" and "m:" are already both globally valid prefixes for Meta-Wiki, so I'm not sure I see the point of these "WM:" links at all. Where are they useful? Instead of WM:2FA, for example, you could write 2FA or m:2FA and both would be shorter. Same with WM:RFH; RFH and m:RFH are both shorter. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
    I think WM: stands for Wikimedia Meta-Wiki or Wikimedia Meta. WMW: could be used too, but I'm not sure. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 10:18, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
    The idea of namespaces is there could exist "Admins", "Meta:Admins", "Template:Admins" and those would be three different pages with different semantic meaning. For instance for the Template ns the parser knows that it is the page there that the {{}} syntax is to embed something from unless otherwise specified. Perfectly there should not be cross-links between them. It is not a big deal on this wiki, with no article namespace, so RFH can stay, but normally shortcuts are kept in the same ns as the target page. We have various places in the interfaces (GUI, API or database end-points) where you could filter things by ns and it is very unsettling when things work contrary to how they should. For instance ns mess does hinder MassMessage in some wikis as mentioned in the thread linked. While this particular problem is not applicable to what is in question here, there always can randomly appear unexpected different problems. --Base (talk) 11:38, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
    I understand the value of both namespaces and namespace aliases. In this case, I'm not sure why anyone is using "WM:" or why it would be a good idea to encourage its use. At most, it's saving two characters ("WM:" instead of "Meta:"), but it's doing so by using a really confusing and unintuitive abbreviation. --MZMcBride (talk) 12:59, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
    I think it is habitual thing. Most of us are Wikipedians and we are used that project namespace pages have WP:XY shortcuts. Some come from WQ and are used to WQ alias for ns4 and so on. WM as Wiki-Meta or Wikimedia Meta-wiki fits well into this (While Commons with COM doesn't but Commons also was the last one to acquire a sane interwiki prefix so it is a different story). But no matter how we ended up having those shortcuts I think it is a good idea to have them organised now, we cannot just get rid of them and brake all the links used for over a decade. --Base (talk) 10:49, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
  • I don't see a need for such an alias. --MF-W 23:21, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Here's a better report:

MariaDB [metawiki_p]> select page_id, page_namespace as ns, page_title, (select count(*) from pagelinks where pl_title = page_title and pl_namespace = page_namespace) as links, rd_namespace as ns, rd_title from page join redirect on rd_from = page_id where page_title like 'WM:%';
+----------+----+----------------------------------+-------+----+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| page_id  | ns | page_title                       | links | ns | rd_title                                                                                           |
+----------+----+----------------------------------+-------+----+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 10107197 |  0 | WM:WISHLIST2016                  |     0 |  0 | 2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey                                                                     |
| 10121391 |  0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Category_button  |     0 |  0 | 2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Category_button                                                     |
| 10124257 |  0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Heading          |     0 |  0 | 2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Heading                                                             |
| 10107199 |  0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Proposal_button  |     0 |  0 | 2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Proposal_button                                                     |
| 10107247 |  0 | WM:WISHLIST2016/Proposal_section |     0 |  0 | 2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Proposal_section                                                    |
|   135537 |  0 | WM:AWB                           |     0 |  0 | AutoWikiBrowser                                                                                    |
|   163003 |  0 | WM:GR                            |     0 |  0 | Global_Reach                                                                                       |
| 10426046 |  0 | WM:GR/I                          |     0 |  0 | Global_Reach/Insights                                                                              |
|    63683 |  0 | WM:LPP                           |   119 |  0 | Language_proposal_policy                                                                           |
|  2328446 |  0 | WM:AGE                           |     1 |  0 | List_of_Wikimedians_by_age                                                                         |
|   101249 |  0 | WM:Birthday                      |     0 |  0 | List_of_Wikimedians_by_birthday                                                                    |
|  2327395 |  0 | WM:BIRTHDAY                      |     1 |  0 | List_of_Wikimedians_by_birthday                                                                    |
|    64090 |  0 | WM:MSF                           |     0 |  0 | MathStatFunctions                                                                                  |
| 10302180 |  0 | WM:MOREMENU                      |     0 |  0 | MoreMenu                                                                                           |
|    41964 |  0 | WM:NOP                           |    59 |  0 | No_open_proxies                                                                                    |
|    71671 |  0 | WM:БОПС                          |     0 |  0 | No_open_proxies/bg                                                                                 |
|    72569 |  0 | WM:NPA                           |     0 |  0 | No_open_proxies/it                                                                                 |
| 10052896 |  0 | WM:PAGEVIEWS                     |     0 |  0 | Pageviews_Analysis                                                                                 |
|    44981 |  0 | WM:VIE                           |     1 |  0 | Polls_are_evil                                                                                     |
|    61978 |  0 | WM:PIE                           |     7 |  0 | Polls_are_evil                                                                                     |
|    76476 |  0 | WM:PCBP                          |     1 |  0 | Polls_are_evil                                                                                     |
|    88371 |  0 | WM:PAE                           |     5 |  0 | Polls_are_evil                                                                                     |
|    44265 |  0 | WM:PCP                           |    13 |  0 | Proposals_for_closing_projects                                                                     |
|    86621 |  0 | WM:IW-WIKT                       |     0 |  0 | Pywikibot/interwiki.py/Wiktionary_functionality_discussion                                         |
|  9977809 |  0 | WM:RFL                           |     0 |  0 | Requests_for_new_languages                                                                         |
|    71708 |  0 | WM:SMW                           |     0 |  0 | Semantic_MediaWiki                                                                                 |
|   134247 |  0 | WM:SGP                           |    29 |  0 | Special_global_permissions                                                                         |
|   130131 |  0 | WM:RFGP                          |     0 |  0 | Steward_requests/Global_permissions                                                                |
| 10426050 |  0 | WM:STRAT2017                     |     0 |  0 | Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017                                                                   |
| 10426049 |  0 | WM:STRAT2017/BAAU                |     0 |  0 | Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/Brand_awareness,_attitudes,_and_usage_-_Executive_Summary |
|  2234099 |  0 | WM:WIKINEWSIE                    |    58 |  0 | The_Wikinewsie_Group                                                                               |
|    22487 |  0 | WM:TOTW                          |    40 |  0 | Translation_of_the_week                                                                            |
|    41605 |  0 | WM:OP                            |    22 |  0 | WikiProject_on_open_proxies                                                                        |
|    41607 |  0 | WM:OP/blacklist                  |     1 |  0 | WikiProject_on_open_proxies/Blacklist                                                              |
|    41967 |  0 | WM:OP/B                          |     7 |  0 | WikiProject_on_open_proxies/Blacklist                                                              |
|    41606 |  0 | WM:OP/help                       |     1 |  0 | WikiProject_on_open_proxies/Help:blocked                                                           |
|    45920 |  0 | WM:OP/H                          |     4 |  0 | WikiProject_on_open_proxies/Help:blocked                                                           |
|  1246226 |  0 | WM:WMMED                         |    34 |  0 | Wiki_Project_Med                                                                                   |
|  1532595 |  0 | WM:MED                           |     0 |  0 | Wiki_Project_Med                                                                                   |
|   598528 |  0 | WM:CEEM                          |     1 |  0 | Wikimedia_CEE_Meeting                                                                              |
|   601137 |  0 | WM:CEEWiki                       |     0 |  0 | Wikimedia_Central_and_Eastern_Europe                                                               |
|   598383 |  0 | WM:WMDEBUDGET                    |     0 |  0 | Wikimedia_Deutschland/Budget_2011                                                                  |
|    60932 |  0 | WM:PUB                           |     0 |  0 | Wikimedia_Forum                                                                                    |
|   139132 |  0 | WM:FORUM                         |     5 |  0 | Wikimedia_Forum                                                                                    |
|   278933 |  0 | WM:BM                            |     1 |  0 | Wikimedia_Foundation_board_meetings                                                                |
|  1267848 |  0 | WM:LGBT                          |    75 |  0 | Wikimedia_LGBT+/Portal                                                                             |
|   126081 |  0 | WM:RADIO                         |     1 |  0 | Wikimedia_Radio                                                                                    |
|   278937 |  0 | WM:M                             |     1 |  0 | Wikimedia_meetings                                                                                 |
|  2244495 |  0 | WM:R                             |     1 |  0 | Wikimedia_resolutions                                                                              |
|    54879 |  0 | WM:SPAM                          |    83 |  1 | Spam_blacklist                                                                                     |
|   153705 |  0 | WM:SBL                           |    12 |  1 | Spam_blacklist                                                                                     |
|   117751 |  0 | WM:TBL                           |    10 |  1 | Title_blacklist                                                                                    |
|   229578 |  0 | WM:ABOUT                         |     1 |  4 | About                                                                                              |
|    75898 |  0 | WM:A                             |    79 |  4 | Administrators                                                                                     |
|   139678 |  0 | WM:ADMIN                         |     0 |  4 | Administrators                                                                                     |
|   173414 |  0 | WM:A/R                           |     1 |  4 | Administrators/Removal                                                                             |
|    75897 |  0 | WM:A/C                           |     1 |  4 | Administrators/confirm                                                                             |
|   136145 |  0 | WM:BABEL                         |     1 |  4 | Babel                                                                                              |
|   101702 |  0 | WM:B                             |    31 |  4 | Bureaucrats                                                                                        |
|  2229053 |  0 | WM:CNA                           |    30 |  4 | Central_notice_administrators                                                                      |
|   101713 |  0 | WM:CHU                           |    14 |  4 | Changing_username                                                                                  |
|  1194372 |  0 | WM:CU                            |     1 |  4 | CheckUsers                                                                                         |
| 10208286 |  0 | WM:CPP                           |     1 |  4 | Child_protection_policy                                                                            |
|    43926 |  0 | WM:DP                            |    72 |  4 | Deletion_policy                                                                                    |
|    54475 |  0 | WM:CSD                           |    69 |  4 | Deletion_policy                                                                                    |
|    58438 |  0 | WM:I/D                           |    83 |  4 | Discussion_pages                                                                                   |
|   188720 |  0 | WM:FU                            |     3 |  4 | Fair_use                                                                                           |
|  2279924 |  0 | WM:EDP                           |     1 |  4 | Fair_use                                                                                           |
|  2244899 |  0 | WM:4WP                           |     7 |  4 | For_Wikipedians                                                                                    |
|  2244901 |  0 | WM:FORWP                         |     1 |  4 | For_Wikipedians                                                                                    |
|    43886 |  0 | WM:H                             |    14 |  4 | Historical                                                                                         |
|  8772240 |  0 | WM:IPBE                          |    25 |  4 | IP_block_exemption                                                                                 |
|    74195 |  0 | WM:IP                            |   268 |  4 | Inclusion_policy                                                                                   |
|    51130 |  0 | WM:I                             |    36 |  4 | Index                                                                                              |
|  3669614 |  0 | WM:I/he                          |     1 |  4 | Index/he                                                                                           |
| 10186604 |  0 | WM:I/zh                          |     1 |  4 | Index/zh                                                                                           |
|    51129 |  0 | WM:IAS                           |    37 |  4 | Information_and_statistics                                                                         |
|    51656 |  0 | WM:LS                            |    34 |  4 | Language_select                                                                                    |
|  2994963 |  0 | WM:MMS                           |    26 |  4 | MassMessage_senders                                                                                |
|  8772263 |  0 | WM:OM                            |     7 |  4 | MetaProject_to_overhaul_Meta                                                                       |
|  2267438 |  0 | WM:IR2013                        |     2 |  4 | MetaProject_to_overhaul_Meta/Image_review_2013                                                     |
|   133629 |  0 | WM:MSR                           |    40 |  4 | Meta–steward_relationship                                                                          |
|   179559 |  0 | WM:OPD                           |     2 |  4 | Open_proxy_detection                                                                               |
|  1063718 |  0 | WM:OS                            |    24 |  4 | Oversighters                                                                                       |
|    51343 |  0 | WM:PAG                           |   135 |  4 | Policies_and_guidelines                                                                            |
|    43883 |  0 | WM:PPM                           |    12 |  4 | Proposed_page_moves                                                                                |
|    44456 |  0 | WM:PPM/2006                      |    10 |  4 | Proposed_page_moves/Archives/2006                                                                  |
|    75465 |  0 | WM:SALT                          |     4 |  4 | Protected_against_recreation                                                                       |
|    46924 |  0 | WM:I/RP                          |   133 |  4 | Requests_and_proposals                                                                             |
|    47663 |  0 | WM:IRP                           |   115 |  4 | Requests_and_proposals                                                                             |
|    85334 |  0 | WM:RFCU                          |     1 |  4 | Requests_for_CheckUser_information                                                                 |
|    43706 |  0 | WM:RFA                           |    44 |  4 | Requests_for_adminship                                                                             |
|  4580127 |  0 | WM:RFAA                          |     0 |  4 | Requests_for_adminship/Archives                                                                    |
|  6553027 |  0 | WM:RFC                           |    21 |  4 | Requests_for_comment                                                                               |
|    43831 |  0 | WM:RFD                           |   122 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion                                                                              |
|    46867 |  0 | WM:RFU                           |     4 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion                                                                              |
|   255501 |  0 | WM:DEL                           |     0 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion                                                                              |
|   588731 |  0 | WM:RfD                           |     0 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion                                                                              |
|    44403 |  0 | WM:RFD/2003                      |    11 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion/Archives/2003                                                                |
|    44378 |  0 | WM:RFD/2005                      |     1 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion/Archives/2005                                                                |
|    44376 |  0 | WM:RFD/2006                      |    19 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion/Archives/2006                                                                |
|    69963 |  0 | WM:RFD/2007                      |     1 |  4 | Requests_for_deletion/Archives/2007                                                                |
|    68728 |  0 | WM:RFH                           |   170 |  4 | Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat                                                       |
|    43829 |  0 | WM:SB                            |    80 |  4 | Sandbox                                                                                            |
|    79301 |  0 | WM:SAND                          |     0 |  4 | Sandbox                                                                                            |
|   633917 |  0 | WM:TEST                          |     0 |  4 | Sandbox                                                                                            |
|    44979 |  0 | WM:WM                            |     1 |  4 | Shortcut                                                                                           |
|   939168 |  0 | WM:TA                            |    38 |  4 | Translation_administrators                                                                         |
|  7486345 |  0 | WM:URB                           |     4 |  4 | Urbanity                                                                                           |
|  7486338 |  0 | WM:VN                            |     2 |  4 | Vandalism                                                                                          |
|    54871 |  0 | WM:NOT                           |    23 |  4 | What_Meta_is_not                                                                                   |
| 10248387 |  0 | WM:POTHI                         |     1 |  4 | Wikisource:WikiProject_Pothi                                                                       |
|   118330 |  0 | WM:ALPH                          |     0 | 12 | Alphabetic_order                                                                                   |
|    47697 |  0 | WM:HELP                          |     6 | 12 | MediaWiki_help_policy                                                                              |
|    47710 |  0 | WM:PF                            |     3 | 12 | ParserFunctions                                                                                    |
|    59283 |  0 | WM:FRKO                          |     0 | 12 | ParserFunctions/sl                                                                                 |
|    89014 |  0 | WM:TEMP                          |     0 | 12 | Template                                                                                           |
| 10172057 |  0 | WM:TEMP/zh                       |     0 | 12 | Template/zh                                                                                        |
|    89016 |  0 | WM:UC                            |     0 | 12 | User_contributions                                                                                 |
+----------+----+----------------------------------+-------+----+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
119 rows in set (0.14 sec)

Many "WM:" pages do not point to the Meta namespace and many have zero incoming links. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

That is indeed interesting report. I will only point out that zero links does not necessary mean zero links as there is a very high possibility of links being located on other Wikimedia projects or elsewhere. Or on Meta itself but in edit summaries and such. --Base (talk) 21:57, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
I wouldn't do this. I do understand the point. But WM can mean so many different things that I think it would just be confusing. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
I understand this request but MZMcBride's report is very compelling. This prefix is being used to shorten links to a diverse set of pages, probably linked from various places around the internet, and I don't feel comfortable with disrupting or complicating this kind of usage by "stealing" it for a namespace alias (which would mostly be used on the wiki by people who surely have no trouble finding other ways to spare themselves the trouble to type a whopping two more characters for their links). Nemo 13:49, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

On autopatrollers[edit]

I'm not sure about you, but this current manual granting of autopatrolled is a bit annoying to me. What about using some sort of autopromotion criteria like user has registered X time ago, has Y edits, never blocked, never had groups revocked, then promote condition? —MarcoAurelio (talk) 19:44, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

I've added quite a lot people to the group recent days, whom I grant it to mostly are either staffers which I see that know how to edit (either experienced in volunteer role or show that they do not break things otherwise) or volunteers for whom I mostly check the global account (if the a guy has 1000+ edits in a big wiki through several years and not banned for them then he is probably trusted enough for not having to be checked per edit, furthermore if he has rollback or sysop somewhere he must be) and who have at least 50+ edits locally (I deviate here and there if I know the user personally or if just feel like it for some reason). I think it would be a good idea to automate most of it, with leaving the possibility to manually add to the group in some clear cases when it feels like there is a need, but I am not sure the out of box MediaWiki autopromotion is a good one as it measures only local contribs. For example I am rather cautionous if it is a 200+ edits volunteer but editing on like Meta and sometimes MWW only. Perhaps a bot can be written for something of the sort of criteria I use, it is quite doable a task. But I am interested to hear what criteria other use as it is basically now up to concrete admins. --Base (talk) 19:56, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
I personally would get rid of edit patrolling, leaving only new pages to patrol. Maybe others find the system useful so I don't mind keeping it. On MW autopromotion, maybe we could set some sort of high criteria were we surely want someone promoted and leave the others to our discrection, or write a bot, or (what I feel it's more confortable and it's going to happen) leave things as they are. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 20:17, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
I can create a bot to apply the task. Please let me know if you have any needs, thank you. --Kanashimi (talk) 04:48, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
Edit patrolling is actually very useful for us who are following recent changes and keep the wiki clean of vandalism and test edits. Stryn (talk) 11:09, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
That was my experience too usually. Autopatrolled status is best not granted automatically but with some judgement, although liberally. I usually only consider users with at least 50 edits locally, or some similar threshold, because the less active users don't necessarily know how things work on Meta and don't flood the recent changes that much anyway. There are only few hundreds such active users so it's not a huge amount of work. --Nemo 13:40, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Edit filters for the 2017 Community Wishlist Survey[edit]

Hello Meta! The 2017 Community Wishlist Survey kicks off on November 6. One thing that we really struggled with last year was monitoring the hundreds of pages involved with the month-long event. We have numerous rules, procedures, etc., that require significant and ongoing attention to ensure everything goes smoothly, compounded by the high rate of edits made to the survey pages. So this year, we were hoping to automate some of this with edit filters.

For starters, I'd like to propose the following filters:

  • Moving proposals to a valid location – This year proposals live as a subpage of a Category. The structure is "2017 Community Wishlist Survey/Category_name/Proposal_name". We've asked via an edit notice that users seek our help if they want to change categories, but if someone did accidentally move it to an invalid place, it could go unnoticed. The filter would check if the page was a subpage of a category, and enforce that it only be moved to a subpage of another valid category.
  • Ensuring proposals match the expected format – This filter would be log-only. It would scan newly added proposals and ensure they match the expected format, including having the required template at the top. There is a comment in the preloaded wikimarkup asking users not to mess with the template, but surely someone will, mostly likely on accident. We want to be able to easily identify these malformed proposals and correct them.
  • Preventing unregistered users from voting on proposals – This would be used when the voting phase begins on November 27. All are invited to participate, provided there is no evidence someone is gaming the system by creating new accounts just to increase the support count, etc. To safeguard against this, we're prohibiting unregistered users from voting. We still want to allow them to comment, so the filter would only prevent them from adding voting templates. See User:Community Tech bot/WishlistSurvey/config for the full list. Note we can't use semi-protection because users may be very active on other wikis, but are not yet autoconfirmed here on Meta (and again we want them to be able to comment).

We might discover the need for more filters at a later time, but these are the scenarios we foresee that filters would be of most help. All filters with actions will show a customized, friendly message.

Does this sound reasonable? Provided we have consensus to do this, it'd be great if we could author these filters ourselves. I personally have been given temporary sysop rights on this wiki, solely for management of the survey. I was not authorized to create or edit filters, nor will I unless there is explicit support for it here, but this would certainly make things easier (see my filter modification log on enwiki for relevant experience). We will ensure the filters are performant as possible, and that editing outside the survey is unaffected.

Thanks for your consideration, and we hope to see your participation in the survey!

-- MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 20:43, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

@Base, MarcoAurelio, and StevenJ81: Sorry for the pings... does the above sound OK? The survey starts tomorrow and we were hoping to implement and test the filters by then. Many thanks! MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 17:55, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Seems reasonable to me. – Ajraddatz (talk) 18:09, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Will it fit within the condition limit? Ruslik (talk) 18:41, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Most definitely! I like to think I'm pretty good at maximizing performance, and I'll be just as attentive to it here. MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 19:29, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
@Ruslik0: Hmm OK... so it looks like we're already regularly hitting the condition limit on Meta. Do you know why there are so many filters with action=edit? In most cases, this would unnecessarily consume a condition. E.g. Special:AbuseFilter/6 looks at edit_delta which would by itself narrow it down to edits (page moves, etc., don't have an edit_delta). MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 19:50, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Special:AbuseFilter/141 Should probably check article_text first, then user_age == 0 (which is faster than checking the full user_groups). There are many IP edits, and for each one, you're probably in most cases consuming all six of those "ip_in_range" conditions. Similar issue with Special:AbuseFilter/138. Then we have other filters like Special:AbuseFilter/136 that probably could be disabled MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 19:58, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
So you are talking about the abuse filters. Looks fine. Stryn (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Sorry yes, on enwiki we call them edit filters. MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 19:29, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks to all. I'll get started on these now, and I'll write back here with the filter numbers so you can monitor as well, should you be interested. Regards, MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 19:29, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Filters are at Special:AbuseFilter/145 and Special:AbuseFilter/146. The one for checking IPs will be added when we enter the voting phase. As for condition count -- we were already hitting the limit on Meta. Special:AbuseFilter/114 seems to be the major consumer, averaging at 13 conditions. Judging by the last time it was triggered, I'm guessing it could be disabled? I would not leave this running with its current implementation.
I also made a number of suggestions for the global filters at Steward requests/Miscellaneous (permalink). MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 23:32, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm no expert on this stuff, but looks fine to me. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:40, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

New extension[edit]

Should we deploy Semantic MediaWiki? It seems like something that can succeed Wikidata. Ups and Downs () 22:28, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

@UpsandDowns1234: For what it's worth SMW is a decade old. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:38, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
@UpsandDowns1234 and Koavf: We're not going to allow Semantic MediaWiki to be installed in Wikimedia production, sorry; the critical performance problems are designed into the product and not fixable. Wikibase (the software that powers Wikidata and the forthcoming Structured Data on Commons project) implements much the same base functionality. Is there a particular tool / feature you see provided through SMW that you think would be useful for Wikimedia wikis? Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:45, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
@Jdforrester (WMF) and Koavf: How about the semantic links? Would Wikimedia benefit from being a Semantic wiki? The latest version of SMW is 2.5.5. Ups and Downs () 23:01, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Xiao'erjing Wikipedia.[edit]

"Need help on doing the Xiao'erjing Wikipedia![edit] Hello again, I am Muso Kortjass, I was wondering some languages of China have their own Wikipedia at the expense of the Sichuan Yi Wikipedia, Why don't I make Wikipedia in the Xiao'erjing language? Thank you!" Copied from here, this discussion seems more relevant here. Pinging @Muso Sholban: so people can give him/her advice how to suggest a new wiki-project here. --Donald Trung (Talk 🤳🏻) (My global lock 😒🌏🔒) (My global unlock 😄🌏🔓) 12:30, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

I see this as not likely to be eligible for a project on those terms. See en:Xiao'erjing: It seems to be not so much a language as a writing system—in which case, the normal approach would be to use a script converter, if possible, rather than to create a separate language.
One possible route forward: Min Nan, Min Dong and Hakka all have content in Latin alphabet, rather than Chinese characters. If there is a variety of Chinese having an ISO 639–3 code that is usually (even often) written in Xiao'erjing—and if there is not already an open Wikipedia or test in that variety of Chinese, then a test project could be started at Incubator under that language code.
Whether or not LangCom will ultimately accept a separate project in a language already having an existing project (like Mandarin) whose only difference is the writing system (script) is unclear. Based on my reading of the rules, that kind of project would not be permitted. There is a Pinyin test of Mandarin on Incubator right now, but again I cannot say what LangCom will do if it comes to them. So I think you're far better off finding a variety of Chinese not currently in use and starting there. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:58, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

How to start a global unban discussion for Yahadzija?[edit]

Yahadzija has previously wished to return to editing, I personally see how they could benefit Bosnian Wikipedia and be severely sanctioned on other wiki's until they have proven to be sufficiently knowledgeable about various issues (mostly concerning copyright ©), how would I have to start this unban request? Could Yahadzija comment in it? And can setting up a list of "provisional restrictions" may help the chances of having this person unbanned?

If there was any further abuse by this user then excuse my ignorance, I had only seen them want to return by a message they left here on Meta and they were subsequently banned giving me the idea that they're not allowed to request a global unban themselves. If there are people from Bosnian Wikipedia that want him back then I would love to co-ordinate a potential unban with them. --Donald Trung (Talk 🤳🏻) (My global lock 😒🌏🔒) (My global unlock 😄🌏🔓) 13:15, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Better to just create RFC rather than posting here. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:56, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
Well, I would start an RfC I were actually convinced that this person understands the reasons for his ban properly and knows what copyright © is, a Global (Un)ban discussion at that point should only be a formality, but as I currently don’t have any way of contacting him I think that finding some sort of way where he can communicate with us would be preferred, in case of this user having been applied a global block with an exception to the Bosnian Wikipedia would've been preferred, but I just noticed that he added some extra information 🛈 on his home 🏠 village on Dutch Wikipedia that (thankfully) hasn't been reverted (oddly enough that same admin that patrols that page enforces global locks but not community global bans), my biggest issue with that is that this user barely has any understanding of any language that isn't Serbo-Croatian , but not all of their edits are bad. I still think 🤔 that as long as they don't understand how copyright works that any request will fail. Personally I would’ve advised them to take pictures 📷 of their village themselves. Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. --Donald Trung (Talk 🤳🏻) (My global lock 😒🌏🔒) (My global unlock 😄🌏🔓) 18:19, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

redirect mediawi.ki to mediawiki.org[edit]

hello,

I looked up whois information for mediawi.ki [1], and found it is unregistered. Can one of you sysadmins purchase that domain and redirect it to mediawiki.org?

Ups and Downs () 02:04, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

P.S. phabricator.wikimedia.org is down with a 503 error.

@UpsandDowns1234: phab: is up for me. Why would you recommend purchasing this particular domain hack? —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:14, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
okay, now that phabricator is back up, I will move this to phabricator. See T180657. Ups and Downs () 04:53, 16 November 2017 (UTC)