Requests for comment/Ramir on Russian Wikibooks/Evidence

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This is an appendix to Requests for comments/Ramir on Russian Wikibooks. We took the liberty to translate some dialoges from Russian to English ∴ AlexSm 16:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


2007.01: mw interface[edit]

user talk:Ramir

ВасильевВВ

Translation of the interface is distorted ... isn't it common for MediaWiki? ... and why Forum and Books list are located in the main namespace? Simply to increase the articles count?

Pavel Zubkov

I have a standard Monobook skin in preferences, and expect to see standard MediaWiki interface, so please return the old skin. I understand your desire to create a beautiful interface, but please create a separate skin for that.

Ramir

Wikibooks interface will move, without opposition from noticeable participants, further and further from usual standard interface. What were the books the you had difficulty writing with this interface?

Pavel Zubkov

I don't mind, but please do it in a new skin, without changing standard. Noticeable participant are not the only users, and wiki is not only for editing but for reading as well.

Ramir

This argument is in my favor.

("noticeable participants" was emphasized by Ramir).


2007.01: I set the rules here; kick you out[edit]

user talk:Ramir


Pavel Zubkov

Three days ago there was a proposal on the Main page talk to remove the advertisment. Nothing is done. I will repeat: "I propose to remove the advertisment of "Potential" magazine from Wikibooks, because it's against policies"

Ramir

About "policies": you're confusing Wikipedia and Wikibooks. I set the rules here. I don't like ads as well, but "Potential" is a part of Wikibooks. There is an advertisment for "Featured articles" on the Wikipedia Main page as well :) And a general note: Pavel, even if you do not want to participate in the project, please introduce yourself: why are you interested in wiki technology, where I can see your works and some history of your participation in wiki-communities. Cause I'm not sure, either to write you long answers or kick you out right away.


2007.02: project namespace[edit]

user talk:Ramir

ВасильевВВ
will you please answer me what Forum and other official pages are doing in the main namespace?
Ramir
What they they doing? Let's say they are located in there
ВасильевВВ
Have you ever thought they should be in the project namespace
Ramir
No, I didn't
ВасильевВВ
Don't you think they pollute the articles count
Ramir
No
ВасильевВВ
Have you thought about this now?
Alex Smotrov
I agree Forum is not supposed to be in the main namespace, but while the project is so small I'm not sure if it matters that much

2 hours later Ramir removes the whole discussion without any further comments.


2007.12: images[edit]

Forum

Alex Smotrov

What's going to happen with 99% images on March 23, 2008? Other projects work on that, tagging images with correct licenses or deleting them. See http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Licensing_policy, and also http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-May/023760.html

Ramir

I'm concerned with something else: what's going to happen to Wiki-sites (sooner or later)? Cause authors come, create educational literature, and then anonymous fags day and night confidently delete content with support of other useless fags from other end of a planet - this is sick and needs to be cured.

Alex Smotrov

I didn't get this answer. As you mention "educational literature", you probable mean Wikibooks. I agree that Recenchanges has to be visited more often, and not once in several days. Please devote more time to the project. However, I would like the answer to my original question

Ramir

You better devote more time to the project. With the hope that Wikimedia Foundation would stop using you to wipe it's feet, and will do something useful once a year. For example, you can ask Board of Trustees your "original question" in English, what if they answer?

Alex Smotrov

Again: every image has to have a license. And admin's responsibility is to keep watch on that. And at least require that for new images. What am I supposed to ask Foundation about, whether they are going to change their minds? ... ...

Ramir

Again: whatever Foundation decide, people will not run and give themselves enema (alternative: clean neglected images database); even less adult professionals with self-respect. Administrators, contrary to your fantasies, are no different from usual users (read about tech. abilities of sysops in Wikipedia). If you wanna play with licenses templates - go ahead, you're not gonna need admin authority for that. but I must warn you: if you mess up or delete other's work - I will warn and block you. This is my ethical responsibility to authors.

Alex Smotrov

This (questionable imho) position is your excuse to continue neglecting images database?

I request the administrator to add license selection and some basice guide to the Special:Upload page

Ramir

Request denied. Sit on the bench for spare and think.


2007.12.17: system messages[edit]

Forum

Alex Smotrov

Please fix "mytalk" link on top which now says "emails" and it's confusing, especially since it's very similar to "Email this user" on the left

On Recenchanges page please restore the line
Show minor edits ; Show bots ; Hide anonymous users ; Hide logged-in users ; Hide my edits
as in all other projects

On the pages in main namespace the top tab should be "book". I understand that the current value "page" was forced by the decision to move Forum and other project pages into the main namespace, so please move it back into Project namespace.

On of the admin's responsibilities is to keep an eye on system messages, translating them into Russian wihtout waiting for the changes in the language file.

In Gadgets it's very difficult to understand the meaning "Disable navigator commands" if you don't already know what that means

(This was about "remove access keys" gadget copied from en.wp)


(1 Month later, there is no answer whatsoever to any of these requests)


2007.12.19: interwiki on Main[edit]

Forum

Alex Smotrov

Interwiki list on the Main page is not complete (compare to en), please append others.

Ramir

No need

Alex Smotrov

While there is no consensus to cut the list down (and sysop flag is not giving any advantage), the full list needs to be restored. Besides, the current list seems a bit random, according to projects sizes at List of Wikibooks:

  • 1 English
  • 2 Deutsch
  • 4 Français
  • 6 Español
  • 8 Italiano
  • 9 Polski
  • 12 עברית
  • 13 Suomi
  • 14 Svenska
  • 20 Česky
  • 28 Esperanto
  • 30 Български
  • 38 Slovenčina
  • 40 Српски / Srpski
  • 44 Українська


Alex Smotrov

I would still like to see a reasonable answer.

(This was on Jan 4, 2008, no response since then)


2007.12.19: text on Main[edit]

Forum

Alex Smotrov

On the Main page the insulting header "Garbage" needs to be removed, and also the phrase "do not repeat mistakes of sub-authors of sub-books". And before putting books in such a list, at least give some specific suggestions on possible improvements on their talk page, for example at Talk:Java

Putnik

Unfortunately, there was no reaction to this message. Too bad. This phrase might repel potential authors, thinking they too might get into this list.

Ramir

When I see 5 (five) written complaints from useful contributors (like, someone was offended), I will replace "garbage" with another word, selected as a result of a vote


2008.01.04: clowns[edit]

Forum

Putnik

I propose replacing the current logo with the logo with Russian text, see this image

Ramir

Our site name is "Wikibooks", and not "Wiki-books" or "Wiki books" or something else.

(This answer doesn't make any sense at all, since Russian word "Викиучебник" on the new logo is divided in two words exactly the same way as "Wikibooks" on the current logo.)

... ...

Ramir
On summer 2006 I raised the question to change the logo ([1]). But there is no good designer, nothing is done since then. Maybe "Wikimedia Foundation" in a couple years would deign sharing 0,001% of it's profits and finally make a good company style. Until then - vote for the logo, clowns, do somersaults.


2008.01.04: will block[edit]

user talk:Putnik

After Putnik added {{navigation}} template onto some project pages (which was immediately reverted)

Ramir

Do not fuss with tecnical innovations. If you make mischief without writing any educational literature - I will block you.

Putnik

If you think adding navigational box is mischeif that doesn't make it mischief. I do not plan writing books in the following 6 months. Still, writing books is not the only way I can help the project. At this moment it's important to create a comfortable environment for new authors. For example, by creating easy understandable help pages, this is what I'm about to do.

Ramir

No, I don't think so. However, as a starter and organizer of this project, I thought about a lot of things, talked to contributors a lot, and understood a lot while talking to hosters. To explain to any Putnik, AlexSm and ВасильеВВ why "navigational template" is schizophrenic takes too much time. It's easier just to block all non-writing users, who decided to "help the project" with thoughtless renames, interface clutter, stupid requests in Forum etc.

Putnik

Let's decide one importan question, without the answer to this the dialog is meaningless. It's good that you started this project. However, you're not a king or a god, and do not own it. The project has goals, there are users who want to help achieve it. The fact that someone still hasn't had the time to write a book doesn't give you right to block him just because you want it

Ramir

I clean up vandal edits every day, and I assure you, it's difficult to tell a vandal from an ordinary user without contributions, who decided to "help the project" with the nonsense like navigational template. Moreover, sociopathic tone of your (ВасильеВВ, AlexSm, Kalan, …) requests doesn't give me hope for a productive cooperation. Take the coat off, say hello to old-timers, work silently in wiki environment, make yourself accustomed to Wikibooks - only them your ideas will be taken into consideration.


2008.01.05: go away[edit]

User talk:Ramir

Alex Smotrov
(Second time) I ask you not to distort the nick that I use, as for example in this edit. Also, I consider the word "sociopath" insulting, and earnestly recommend you to stay within the limits of constructive dialog.
Ramir

I earnestly ask you to stop feeling insulted, behave like an idiot, abbreviate your nick and in general make edits to Wikibooks pages without useful contributions.

Alex Smotrov

I would avdvise you to start with yourself: to revert all your unwholesome edits (not supported by anyone) in broken system messages and on the Main page and bring them to normal appearance

Ramir

I would advise you to go away from Wikibooks wherever you feel like.