Talk:CheckUser policy

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"Founder" CU(s)[edit]

JW is listed under the subsubsubheading "Founder" for the English Wikipedia. That terse title leaves ambiguous whether the implication is "Ex-officio as 'founder'", or "Appointed by self". The rights log comment for the most recent CU grant to self implies the latter, especially as it states that it's for a particular, temporary purpose. That this happened five years ago, and hasn't been reset since, might be read as leaning more towards the former. 84.203.36.42 04:36, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Take it to enWP. No point stirring here. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:47, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
I use CU on a regular basis and I'm likely to need to use it across all projects from time to time.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:07, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
The consensus about the founder's flag, as far as I remember, was that it retains all passive rights of a steward (that is reading, checking, looking beyond oversight, etc.), while not the active ones. Checkuser is clearly a passive tool of this sort, and stewards use it the same way (whenever needed, grant themselves the CU rights, use them, and remove them), they do not hold CU on many projects as regular checkusers do. So I don't see what's the issue here (unless the whole comment is aimed at stripping the founder flag from passive insight as well). Pundit (talk) 14:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Claims of CheckUser abuse[edit]

Small clarification[edit]

I submit that this checkuser policy should not say "Stewards - upon request" unless they only have that right upon request, which does not seem to be the case. Rather, it should say "Stewards" or better yet "Stewards" plus something that's accurate - e.g. that stewards self-grant local checkuser access on meta only for a brief time, because that maximizes transparency. See ENWP discussion --Elvey (talk) 21:59, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Inactivity[edit]

Hi. According to this policy it is possible to lose flag because inactivity. However, in es:WP there is some CU inactives and they didn´t loose them. An admin told me than "is not clear what it means "inactive" according to this policy". So I ask: what "inactive" exactly means? Thanks. --Ganímedes (talk) 09:13, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Basic editing would be my understanding of inactive, though there are other measures that would be looked at to making a determination, eg. they may be running CU checks or undertaking actions that are not editing, so a common explanation of activity should be interpreted for the purposes of alerting your community. If you have concerns over actvity of esWP checkusers then please bring it to the notice of your admins/crats/CUs and they can do the leg work and notify stewards accordingly. Having two or more checkusers should allow for them to monitor each other.  — billinghurst sDrewth 11:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Basically you're saying that someone could be CU indefinetely only doing edits, no matter he didn´t check nothing in several years. Is that correct? --Ganímedes (talk) 17:48, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
No, the CU policy isn't clear regarding inactivity - so he advices you to go back to the community. You could, for example, begin a de-RfCU there. Though I agree the policy should be clarified soon about this point. It was set up when we didn't have that many CUs and it's not yet up to date anymore. We should have some clarification; maybe I'll set up a RFC about it soon. Maybe this answer helps? With regards, Trijnsteltalk 18:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
I am indicating that there are many measures of inactivity and numbers of them can be used. There are a number of means to investigate, however, the first in this case would be from within the community, and allow the discussion to take place. CU checks should only be undertaken when they are needed, not as a means to retain the tool. As multiple CUs are needed within a community to retain the right, you may find that one is more active and undertakes more/first checks, and the others act as review, they may participate in discussions about the data (which is confidential and can only be shared by those with the right). So, I am saying we can measure "inactive" in numbers of ways, and this becomes a discussion, not solely regarded as a specific measure. In the end, they are appointed by the community, and can be removed by the community, and you can all suggest in a mature discussion the means forward.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:57, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
(In my opinion we have to use edit count. We should not encourage looking at private information without good reason; CheckUsers should not lose rights just because not enough requests for checks have been done).--Jasper Deng (talk) 18:58, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
And what if someone has been a CU for years, without having performed even 1 CU while they still edit regularly? (And yes, I know this happens.) Trijnsteltalk 19:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
As long as they don't abuse it, though being unresponsive to valid CU requests would be a separate problem in and of itself.--Jasper Deng (talk) 23:26, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
It depends on the wiki, really. Some enwiki arbs never CU, but they are expected to hold it, whereas there are CUs on other wikis (I can think of two right now) who show up and make 4 edits a year to their userspace and then leave for the next year. --Rschen7754 02:30, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
If those communities are comfortable with that as a display of activity, then I am not really certain that others can do or say much, it is activity. One could still call less than a handful of edits as inactive for a person in that role. Still the issue is about any harm from action or inaction, and each community's needs.  — billinghurst sDrewth 05:21, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Well, they still retain access to private information, including a subscription to checkuser-l, and the CU wiki, so I'm not entirely sure that a completely detached approach is a good idea. --Rschen7754 06:06, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Also: I think that maybe the policy should be changed to 6 months inactive, and keep it as no logged actions/no edits - it would catch most of the CUs who are completely tuned out from Wikimedia. --Rschen7754 04:18, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
How about inactivity as "12 (or 6 as Rschen7754 proposed above) months with no edits, no publicly-viewable logged actions, no formal community approval with the same consensus level and procedure as in appointment"? I expect monitoring-only CUs would have no problem with fulfilling the last condition (ArbCom approval or a new election), when needed. Also, it might be a good idea to make it explicit that this is a minimum standard for necessary activity levels, and that local communities may have a stricter policy on inactivity than this. whym (talk) 13:53, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

This topic has been raised at least two times before: 1, 2. My preference is to understand activity widely, not limited just to CU; otherwise we will force users to make use of the CU tool just to keep the right, which would be contrary to the spirit of this policy, as CU should be a tool of last resort (I agree with Jasper Deng above). However I'd support a clarification and probably a whole update to this policy for which I support Trijnstel's idea to open a RFC. Best regards. — M 15:55, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

It's unpleasant and uncomfortable force someone to use the tool, yes, but in the other hand this is not a flag like rest; it gives access to private information and should be carefully handle, I think. Thanks for interest. --Ganímedes (talk) 18:18, 21 November 2014 (UTC)