Wikivoyage/Lounge

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This is the Wikivoyage Lounge on Meta where we discuss the Wikivoyage project in general and issues related to more than one language version. Old discussions are archived.

Monthly reports from each edition of Wikivoyage can be found on the Summit page.

這裡是維基導遊多語言休息室。我們在這裡能使用不同語言討論在維基導遊計畫中遇到的一些問題。 每個月將會記錄在峰會上。

Please click here to begin a new discussion

Banners[edit]

Which projects do actually use pagebanners? I am aware about English, French, and Russian. Any others? Any plans to introduce banners in other versions?--Ymblanter (talk) 19:20, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Lang Using pagebanner Usage (pagebanners / destinations[articles?]) Notes/discussions/projects (fill out yourself)
de 30 - Discussion
el 96 ~0.52 Περίπτερο επισκεπτών
en voy:Category:Has_banner
3,059 custom, 22,728 default, 25878 total as of 8 Aug 2013
voy:Wikivoyage:Banner_Expedition#Progress
99.7% of main space articles have banners
18.3% have custom banners as of 27 August 2013
voy:Wikivoyage:Banner_Expedition
voy:Wikivoyage talk:Banner Expedition
(...Others?...)
es 1743
(1 October 2014)
99,6 % of main space articles have banners La posada, etc.
fr 767 ~0.25 Café des Voyageurs, etc.
he 0 (?) 0 he:voy:משתמש:ויקיג'אנקי/טיוטה/וושינגטון_די._סי. has banner ?
it 999 (100% custom banner - no default banner has been implemented) (9 August 2013) 999/3071 ~33% (9 August 2013) it:voy:Wikivoyage:Lounge/Archivio/2013/07#Pagebanner etc.
nl Negligible (~0) ~0 Reizigerscafé
pl 0 (?) 0  ?
pt 330 custom banners, default banner in all other articles 100% implementation, roughly 10% with custom banners pt:voy:Wikivoyage:Banners
ro 0 (?) 0  ?
ru 265 100% default banners, roughly 12% custom banners Пивная путешественников (2013), original
sv 0 0 No banners planned till now, maybe later
uk 352 (incl. default) ? too bored to compute Кнайпа, etc.?
vi used in all articles (per Wikivoyage/Summit#vi)  ?  ?
zh voy:zh:Category:使用横幅条目 959 total 100% implementation 72.2% with custom banners voy:zh:Wikivoyage:横幅远征队

Feel free to update/fix this, and add links to discussions and local expeditions. PiRSquared17 (talk) 01:17, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:59, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
en: is up to date. · · · Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:18, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
it: updated as well. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:51, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
pt: updated. Texugo (talk) 19:39, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
zh: added. --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 10:44, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
sv: added. -- Dan Koehl (talk) 21:02, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
de: updated. -- FriedhelmW (talk) 14:56, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

interwiki links and Itineraries[edit]

The linkages between languages for our Itineraries is pretty convoluted. These recent edits to Wikidata exemplify the problem. It appears we have at least two different Wikidata entries for Itineraries, and I can't tell what the difference is. We have d:Q1322323 ("Itineraries") and d:Q14549023 (unlabeled). Only the former links to English Wikivoyage, but both link to German (the first to voy:de:Thema:Reiserouten and the second to voy:de:Thema:Liste der Reiserouten, and I'll be darned if I can understand what the difference is between the two). Anyone have any idea what's going on? LtPowers (talk) 13:48, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

The first page ("Itineraries") is an introductory page giving access to subregions, too. The second one only a complete listing of all routes. --RolandUnger (talk) 15:47, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm still not sure how to straighten out the Wikidata linkages, though. LtPowers (talk) 15:08, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Mobile Edits[edit]

I can't modify wikivoyage on mobile version, IMO it is broken (see [1] [2] [3]). Could someone help me? Thanks --Lkcl it (Talk) 19:28, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

I also cannot edit in Mobile English Wikivoyage. However, I can edit in mobile version of Spanish Wikivoyage. --Zerabat (discusión) 19:50, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
the problem has been solved. Thanks --Lkcl it (talk) 16:02, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
The Milan English article is still not editable but the problem is restricted to this specific article maybe there's a __NOEDITSECTION__ used in one template. Can someone from en:voy help to understand?
However I take the chance to highlight one bug that affect the mobile listing layout of both en:voy and it:voy . The numbered square shown before each listing, is not in line with the text but above of it (see the previous Milan articles). Any idea for the fix? --Andyrom75 (talk) 09:17, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
FYI On it:voy I've patched it changing width: 12px; height: 13px; into width: 25px; height: 20px. This works with 2 digits listings. For three digits is necessary to change changing width: 12px; height: 13px; into width: 29px; height: 20px AND padding: 0px 2px 3px 1px; into padding: 0px 0px 3px 1px;.
Better & cleaner solutions are more than welcome. --Andyrom75 (talk) 22:29, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikimania Leaflets[edit]

A group of proactive Wikimedians has generously offered to design and produce leaflets for distribution at Wikimania 2014. These leaflets are to promote WikiProjects (Wikipedia interest groups) and non-Wikipedia WMF projects (like ours!). See //wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_Leaflets for details. I think it would behoove Wikivoyage to submit a request for a leaflet. Any other thoughts? LtPowers (talk) 12:41, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I think it would be a good thing to assist in promoting Wikivoyage - ps I just love the word behoove. Matroc (talk) 02:36, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
This is really a nice idea. We should use it. --RolandUnger (talk) 16:58, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Totally agree. Anything that could spread the knowledge of voy is always welcome. --Andyrom75 (talk) 08:48, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I've added an application for Wikivoyage; please feel free to edit it. LtPowers (talk) 23:56, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

multi lingual display for Destination of the month[edit]

Mates,

regular users of the German and English WV might have noticed that this month for the first time we coordinated to display Travemünde https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Travem%C3%BCnde & https://de.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Travem%C3%BCnde as a joint destination of the month/otbp respectively. It took almost a year in preparation and scheduling to get both articles to guide level and coordinate the communities. The main advantage is/was that there was a collaboration between the communities and awareness that wv is bigger than any community of every language.

The German and English communities indicated interest to take it to another level and try to see if we can collaborate as much languages on one destination for one month. To allow anyone to participate in the decision which destination and which month, this is in essence an opener to discuss how and when it is best done. I'm willing to help with coordination with languages i understand and would preferrably try to get feedback which languages of wv would be willing to participate and get ideas which destination it could be. Regards, Jc8136 (talk) 12:31, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

On French Wikivoyage, our "lumière sur" or article displayed on the main page is chosen randomly between all articles that have been voted "étoilé" (equivalent to featured articles I guess). We have a "contribution of the month" where we invite contributors to develop a specific page for the month though. Amqui (talk) 15:46, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
I think that should also be great to choose a DoM linked with some important events (eg 2015's expo in Milan or Olympic games). --Lkcl it (talk) 16:53, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
@Lkcl it, on :en we did it for the summer olympics in London in 2012 but Rio 2016 is too far i assume. Miland could be an option.
@Amqui its not unusal that before lumière sur/Dotm it is featured to bring it to etoile/guide as contribution of the month. Do you have a preffered destination in mind? Would so prefer an event (expo 15 Milan?) or others? On :en Lisbon was suggested. Jc8136 (talk) 17:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
I was saying that we don't have any DoM on our main page. The only thing "for the month" on our main page is "Contribution of the Month" which invites contributors to develop an article, so it cannot be an article that has guide status already. Our featured articles, for now anyway, are randomly chosen for each visit amongst all articles that have the étoilé status (one status above guide). Amqui (talk) 00:19, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Milan could be a good choice, both for the importance of the event (Expo), and for the time that we have from now to the event (2015), but also for the fact that recently in it:voy we have worked a lot on the touristic division of the region Lombardia with all the relevant articles, and on en:voy have been created the articles for the Milan districts. So it could be good to merge these two effort through all the language versions (that will participate to the collaboration). --Andyrom75 (talk) 21:17, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Andyrom75. Lkcl it (talk) 21:41, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I fully agree with both Andyrom75 and Lkcl it. Milan could be a good DoM. It is neither too late nor too soon and we all have already a good outline on all linguistic versions. But, over and above that, I find exciting and useful to coordinate our projects. It will certainly help the whole Wikivoyage to grow. --Nastoshka (talk) 11:04, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

@Amqui, ok understood. Would there be an exeption to the randomness possible? E.g. if we would agree to present Milan in May 2015, would there be a way to display it in that month or would community consensus against such deviation from Lumiere sur? This would make the effort easier. @ Nastoshka, Andyrom75, Lkcl it: I assume the italian proposal is Milan in May 2015. Let's see what others have to say. Jc8136 (talk) 12:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

@ Jc8136 I think Milan could be a very good choice, since Milan Expo 2015 includes more than 140 countries as partecipants and so it may become also a symbol of our cooperation and may be of interest for million travelers from all over the world; How better than that for a project as Wikivoyage? But as you said, let's see what others have to say. --Nastoshka (talk) 13:02, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
I guess it would be possible to overrule the random rule without any problems for a specific month, but the article would need to have been voted "étoilé" by the community before being featured on the main page in my opinion. Amqui (talk) 14:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
An other solution is to create a new category on french wikivoyage , so we have «Lumière sur» (maybe we should find an other name) to show one of our best article on french version, a new DoM category that is coordinate with other wikivoyage and a collaboration of the month category (that don't show a spécific place but a zone where there a lot to do : region, big city,country) . Inkey (talk) 14:48, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
I still think DoM should only be articles that are "étoilé". No point on showing a "featured" article on the main page if it's not of high quality, just because other Wikivoyage versions are featuring it. Yes it would be nice to have the same destination displayed, but only if the article has been developed and voted by the community ahead of time. Amqui (talk) 20:56, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Amqui i agree it needs to be etoile.
I posted the proposal for Milan in the German & English pub. In en Mexico City was discussed as well as Wikimania 2015 takes places their. Also Expo15 in en would rather qualify as Featured Travel Topic but lets see. At least no initial opposition. Jc8136 (talk) 06:30, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

User:Balou46, a German WV admin, indicated interest in collaborating for Milan. Lets wait a couple of days to see if other communities have ideas. Jc8136 (talk) 12:09, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I think it's great that we had an inter-lingual feature of en:voy:Travemünde and de:voy:Travemünde, and I love the idea of doing more inter-lingual features. However, en:voy:Milan will need a lot of work, because it is currently only at Usable status, and according to site rules, only articles at Guide status or above are eligible for nomination to be featured on the front page. By the way, étoilé would seemingly be equivalent to en.wikivoyage's Star rating. I'm seeing 10 articles étoilés, and there is no overlap whatsoever between them and the Starred articles in en.wikivoyage, so a good project in en.wikivoyage and any other language version would be to concentrate on translating these particular fr.wikivoyage articles. Once that is done sufficiently to bring the other language version's article up to at least Guide or whatever level is acceptable on each site, a joint feature would be possible. For everyone's reference, here is the fr.wikivoyage list of articles étoilés and here is the equivalent en.wikivoyage list. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:15, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
Considering that the jointly DoM would occur far in the future there's no need to choose one star article right now, because we have a lot of time to transform it into a star one. This would also allow to not exclude any language version from the collaboration. --Andyrom75 (talk) 12:36, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
True. May 2015 is almost a year away. But front-page featured articles are usually chosen at least 2-3 months in advance on en.voy, and often 6 or more months in advance. I definitely think this can be done and is an exciting idea; I'm just pointing out that it will take a lot of work. I will propose that we on en.voy make en:voy:Milan the Collaboration of the Month within the next 5 months or so, and any language version that wants to participate in this cross-wiki feature and has a Milan article that's a level or more lower than the minimum status required to be considered for a feature might want to do the same thing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Maps loading external resources[edit]

FYI, I asked the MappeInterattive gadget be disabled by default on it.voy, after discovering that articles were loading images from mqcdn.com (MapQuest), and perhaps other resources as well (maps.wikivoyage-ev.org/w/poimap2.php and OSM were mentioned). Loading resources from non-WMF servers is forbidden under the privacy policy because it sends those servers private information of our visitors. Such JS/CSS rules are generally removed on sight by stewards etc. when found, but I was asked to summarise this here for Mey2008 and others because apparently other Wiivoyages are doing such a thing as well. --Nemo 18:20, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

If you can get User:Dschwen to help, you may be able to use WikiMiniAtlas.... --Rschen7754 03:51, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
Map templates request images from tools.wmflabs.org that, in turn, gets them from tile servers. I don't think that any confidential information goes beyond wmflabs.org because the scripts essentially call for a part of the map at a given lat, long and zoom level. The scripts do not process any personal information. Of course, WMF is welcome to set up their own tile server, but this is not something that the Wikivoyage community can decide or implement.
The scripts on maps.wikivoyage-ev.org are the source of those on tools.wmflabs.org. They are used for maintenance and development. --Alexander (talk) 07:22, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
The WMF privacy policy considers the IP requesting the information confidential... --Rschen7754 03:45, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Could you explain why WikiMiniAtlas complies with the privacy policy, and current Wikivoyage scripts not? --Alexander (talk) 06:20, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, tiles are rendered on Wikimedia lands servers, and traffic to my land instance goes through an anonymizing proxy (with the purpose of housing user IPs even from tool operators on labs). --Dschwen (talk) 07:02, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Not sure that I understand. Anyway, the point is that Wikivoyage won't benefit from embedded maps themselves, but it needs maps + POIs, and the scripts are handling POIs. We don't care where the map comes from, so if we simply take it from wma.wmflabs.org and/or toolserver (just like WikiMiniAtlas does) instead of using external tile servers, would it be OK? --Alexander (talk) 10:31, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
How much server capacity (CPU and bandwidth) is available on wmflabs (presumably toolserver is shutting down?) and is it enough, given that the maps are on over a thousand WV articles and growing? K7L (talk) 14:57, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I believe that what Dschwen said was, "Only a fake IP address is sent to MapQuest, so there is no possible violation of the privacy policy". User:Dschwen can correct me if I've misunderstood. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:06, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, i think you misunderstood. The fake IP applies only to WikiMiniAtlas. --Dschwen (talk) 22:10, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:37, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
It is already used a lot on enwiki, so I don't think there would be server load issues. --Rschen7754 02:21, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
@Dschwen: Can I ask how to convert eg. [4] to the url of WMA's tiles? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 09:30, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

@Dschwen: Quote: "... traffic ... goes through to an anonymizing proxy". Who is the operator of that proxy? He knows all the IPs of the users of WikiMiniAtlas. Isn't it a big security risk too? - Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 09:30, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
The operator is the foundation. --Dschwen (talk) 11:01, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
P.S.: knowing IPs is not a security risk, it is a privacy concern. --Dschwen (talk) 11:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
@Zhuyifei1999:, this does not work. The WMA had a different format/projection etc. Tiles in some resolutions are rendered on the client, it had 3d buildings and so on. But there is a time server that you can use on labs in the maps project. I'll look up the details. --Dschwen (talk) 11:12, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
"Compiling" WMA is beyond the ability of my nonnative human js and php compiler (a.k.a. reading). It would be great if there's some way to automatically convert the url formats. Also it seems that the other tile providers used by dynamic wikivoyage maps have the same kind of zoom-level, x-axis, y-axis. I'm mot sure if adding a bunch of other code specific to WMA is efficient. --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 14:45, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
In the next version "Dynamic maps" of Wikivoyage the Mapnik layer is by default. Tiles for this layer are then requested by wmflabs server. External servers are marked in the layers selection tool (example see development server). Thus, the problem should be solved? -- Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 17:23, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Did you succeed to get Mapnik from the wmflabs server, or you still get it from Mapnik directly? I think that we preferred Mapquest as the default layer because it has less detail, but we can also live with Mapnik if other layers are not available. --Alexander (talk) 18:21, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, in future I am referring Mapnik tiles directly from wmflabs tiles server. Mapquest layer would be much more appropriate. But it is unfortunately only externally. Mapquest (powered by AOL) insured in its privacy policy "We collect personal information when you make your information known, such as by registering, authenticating, making purchases, or interacting with AOL. If you do not make yourself known to AOL, your use of our content and services is generally anonymous.". I am satisfied with that and do not understand the fuss here. -- Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 18:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand it either, but we have to comply. Anyway, thank you very much for resolving this issue! Scripts on tools.wmflabs.org should be updated in about a week. Then we can check that Wikivoyage pages do not load any information from external (not trusted) sites. --Alexander (talk) 19:01, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
The script "Poimap2.php" has been changed. Mapnik tiles are now loaded from "https://tiles.wmflabs.org/osm/" (example). The gadget "Mapframe" needs to be changed. The default layer must be "M" instead of "O" in lines 15, 16 and 27 [5]. I do not have access rights. - Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 12:21, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Great, thank you.--Ymblanter (talk) 14:00, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you again! I made the changes in Russian and English Wikivoyages. Other projects have to do it on their own by changing the script in Mediawiki:***.js and by modifying relevant templates that display maps in articles. --Alexander (talk) 02:25, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
If there are no local active admins for a project, you can request assistance at SRM and someone will help. --Rschen7754 02:29, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Also done in Chinese Wikivoyage. Thanks Mey2008 --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 14:16, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks to everyone who pitched in to identify and fix this problem - it is really great to see everyone helping out to protect user privacy! —Luis Villa (WMF) (talk) 00:59, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Now why do I see requests to aus4.mozilla.org and ciscobinary.openh264.org ? http://www.webpagetest.org/result/141112_10_ECX/5/details/#request112
  • If the gadget is finally clean and legal, it would be better to host it on a Meta-Wiki MediaWiki: namespace page, as we usually do with global gadgets. (It's the best domain, because it's already loaded for CentralNotice; any additional domain takes time for SSL negotiation etc.) This way, we would benefit from cache and avoid the 112 seconds load time we're currently seeing at [6] because of [7] being down (reported by Pajz [8]). --Nemo 10:42, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Different language versions use different varieties of the mapping script. No single version will fit everyone. Problems with loading times are on the tools.wmflabs.org side, and they won't be solved by hosting gadget in a different place. They can be solved only by improving the stability of tools.wmflabs.org, which has been mentioned many times on different occasions. --Alexander (talk) 22:35, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Badges[edit]

As some of you know, from yesterday badges (in Wikipedia, stars for GA and FA) can be stored on Wikidata. Shortly, they will become visible on sidebars of the projects which enable them (I guess for Wikivoyage this will not be implemented now, but can be done relatively easily). We may want to use this mechanism for storing info on the article quality. I have already seen today that someone stored an info on Jerusalem where the Hebrew Wikivoyage has a star articles. There are three questions therefore to be discussed:

  • (a) Do we want to do it consistently across all or the majority of Wikivoyage projects;
  • (b) If yes, is it enough to adapt to the existing Wikipedia-centered systems and rate stars as FA and guides as GA;
  • (c) If (a) is yes, and (b) is no, what do we want? Three different badges for stars, guides, and outlines usables?--Ymblanter (talk) 07:08, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
I believe, you meant stars, guides and usables. --Alexander (talk) 09:17, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Indeed, now corrected, sorry for that.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:25, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
(a) yes; (b) and (c) it will be easier to introduce the third type of the badge instead of discussing what our analogs of FA and GA are. --Alexander (talk) 09:17, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
That's an excellent idea. Three types of badges would be perfect for our needs. GMM (talk) 12:04, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
What is the actual benefit for Wikivoyage to store this information in Wikidata? I can't tell what it is from the description and questions above.
Obviously Wikivoyage already has this rating concept through templates, so there is no benefit for categorisation and sorting. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:16, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
It might make it easier to spot that some other language has a featured/star article on your intended destination which might be worth translating (some Wikipedia languages do that, fr: is one). Beyond that, dunno... any of the other {{pagebanner}} info (is star, is former DotM/OtBP/FTT, is UNESCO listed, has disambig) pertains specifically to the local page and is already templated on that page.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by K7L (talk)
At least, we will display quality articles with stars in the interwiki links. --Alexander (talk) 02:57, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
(a) No.Yes. (b) Not sure I fully understand. The symbols have to clearly stand for Wikivoyage statuses (Star, Guide, Usable). If they do, I'm satisfied with it.
I'll copy the relevant remarks from en:voy:Travellers' pub#Badge function in Wikidata here:
I added a comment on meta. I don't see any information about why this would be of benefit. Maybe the benefit is too obvious to everyone else, but I would appreciate knowing exactly what it is. Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:24, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
We already have statuses, so I don't understand what this would add. If an article is a Guide, that's a mark of quality. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Exactly, it would just move the 'Guide' status into WikiData. It wouldn't be useful because this is not a data item that can be shared between different Wikivoyage language sites.
It 'may' be useful to know that Jerusalem is a Guide article in Hebrew if I am looking at the English article which is only 'Usable', although I doubt anyone would be that interested. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
That's the usual argument. On Wikipedia, other-language articles with exalted status are indicated with an icon next to the name of the language on the sidebar. Wikivoyage could do the same. Powers (talk) 01:39, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
That's an excellent idea. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:51, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Thinking about it some more, I have to say that I don't check out other language versions of an article because I make the assumption that they will have less content than the English one. This feature would encourage me to at least check out the other ones if there was a quick icon that would tell me there was content worth viewing. Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:48, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:29, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing this discussion here. However, if I read it it sounds to me like (a) is yes.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:51, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
To clarify: I do want other-language articles with exalted status to be indicated with an icon next to the name of the language on the sidebar, as Powers calls for. Maybe I somehow didn't fully understand the proposal. If that's the result of the proposal, yes, I am in support of it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:27, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I hope it was clarified below.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:20, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Maybe I can try?
The proposal is to A) Store Wikivoyage article ratings for all languages in WikiData. B) Display an icon of 'Guide' and 'Star' rated version of articles next to their respective language links on the side bar --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:14, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, absolutely. And C), which seems to be the current consensus (if I am reading it correctly) is to also have a (separate) icon for 'Usable'.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:19, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
I would support that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:09, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Great. I'm assuming that actually creating the statements for Wikidata is trivial and designing a bot to move all the ratings is straightforward. The remaining aspect is how much effort is required to display the icon in the sidebar for every Wikivoyage language site? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:23, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
We can either ask Wikidata developers to do it on the basis of this discussion, or do it per project by modifyig Mediawiki (though I would not know how.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:00, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Another issue is whether we are fine with using generic badges (featured = star, good = guide, and apparently to be soon added quality==usable articles), or we want specific badges for Wikivoyage projects (star, guide, usable).--Ymblanter (talk) 12:00, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
It's important to avoid confusion. I don't much care what the badges look like (within reason), as long as their meaning is clear. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:43, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I think this would work only if is standarized the rating system across the wikivoyages, i.e., all WV having FA/FTT, Usable, guide, etc. To do this, should have coordination and collaboration between language editions. By the way, Spanish WV already have this rating system. --Zerabat (discusión) 12:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
We don't have it "already", we have it from the earliest days of Wikivoyage. To the best of my knowledge, three ratings (usable-guide-star) are shared between most of the language versions. If some language version chooses a different system, we should probably discuss it on a case-by-case basis. --Alexander (talk) 14:41, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

A slightly different badge could be created to note that a district of another language's article is at star/guide status. Many large cities are divided into districts. The rating of regions & cities with districts is dependent on the status of articles lower in the geographical hierarchy>. On EN, cities with districts must have all districts at useable or better to be a guide article & all districts must be at guide level for the city to be a star. When a city article gets too large, the city is divided into districts and the rating of the city article is then dependent on the rating of the district articles. For example, voy:Charlotte is only at useable and has 12 districts (one doesn't even have an article), but the district that covers the central business district (voy:Charlotte/Uptown) is a star. I don't have time to find real examples, but a very useful & detailed city article could have 7 guide-level districts, 4 useful articles, & 2 stubs and the city would only be at useful level. This would be a problem across languages because one language might have no districts and so its article is a guide or star, while another has much more content but is only useable because it has 12 districts. For this I suggest using half of the badge that corresponds to the rating of the district with the highest rating. Doing this for regions is a lot more complicated. AHeneen (talk) 07:10, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

This is an important issue but i propose to separate things. If we agree to have such a badge, it can be added later.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:17, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Implementation[edit]

Yaroslav, can we proceed and submit a request to Wikidata? Once we have the badges activated, we can think how to adjust them. --Alexander (talk) 09:18, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

There is one issue on Wikidata which I need to sort out. I will try to do it tomorrow and come back here.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:17, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Left a request on Wikidata to activate the third badge.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:36, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Now I filed a bug, [9]. We need to wait until it gets resolved.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:10, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
The badge has been created, a bot is currently adding them to Wikidata.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:51, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

fa.wikivoyage.org[edit]

It now exists. --Rschen7754 05:37, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Great.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:36, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Congratulations to them! --Zerabat (discusión) 10:43, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Welcome! --Andyrom75 (talk) 13:01, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. It's flourishing.--Doostdar (talk) 12:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
http://fa.wikivoyage.org/. Persian/Farsi. Nurg (talk) 09:07, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

#coordinates:issue[edit]

FYI I've opened the bug 72559 for the problem in the subject that affect the listing on each language version that use #coordinates. --Andyrom75 (talk) 15:06, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Another collateral effect: Nearby function on mobile devices doesn't work.
However the functionality associated to the magic word #coordinates, (luckly) has been restored. The problem on #coordinates has been originated by the bug 33704 that is not yet closed, so also the bug 72559 won't be immediately close to keep on monitoring the situation. --Andyrom75 (talk) 15:54, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
I think this is the same problem which was brough up yesterday in multiple locations in the English Wikipedia.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:39, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes, as per my understanding all the wikis have been affected, but voy makes a deep use of #coordinates so the problem was spread all over the articles. --Andyrom75 (talk) 23:01, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
The bug has been successfully closed. The GeoData extension (responsibile for the correct use of the coordinates) has been completely separated by another component. So now it can be still in execution even if when the other is down (that was the original problem). --Andyrom75 (talk) 18:50, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Offline Wikivoyage: Available for every language as ZIM[edit]

Need Wikivoyage without Internet? Download a ZIM before leaving: http://download.kiwix.org/zim/wikivoyage/

Freshly made, available for all languages. You will also need the Kiwix app. Enjoy, and please let everyone know in your language's community! :-) Nicolas1981 (talk) 12:42, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, good to know.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:01, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Offline Wikivoyage (02-Dec-2014) Updates is now online , --Florence (talk) 21:34, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, very useful to travellers of remote destinations in which there is no internet access. --Zerabat (discusión) 00:09, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Esperanto Wikitravel wasn't imported[edit]

Does someone know why Esperanto Wikitravel wasn't imported among Wikitravels in another languages? One importer in Incubator already promised to import the site but I am really interested why was Esperanto project forgotten. --KuboF (talk) 20:53, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Esperanto Wikitravel was completely dead at the time of migration, and there was a decision not to start those language versions that had no active contributors. If you are interested and, ideally, have a team of editors who are willing to work on the project, just go ahead! But keep in mind that Wikivoyage made a lot of development in the last 2 years. If you want to follow, formats and design need to be changed substantially. It may be even better to import only good articles and otherwise start from scratch... --Alexander (talk) 21:28, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
It seems the GZWDer kun was posted a way to create a pseudo XML dump to import, well it's at incubator:Incubator:Community Portal/Archive/2014#fi/hu/ja Wikivoyages. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:43, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Also @KuboF, Atsirlin: to have a look.--GZWDer (talk) 09:55, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for advices! We are working on importing. --KuboF (talk) 12:32, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
If they are needed I still have all of the imports that were used to seed Wikivoyage initially, but at this point they are nearly two years old. The file formats are XML exports with full history, one export XML for each article on the site. -- Ryan • (talk) • 15:59, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
@Wrh2, KuboF: Yes! Import all! Having pages from Wikitravel is better than nothing. Also Japanese Wikivoyage have 5000+ unattributed page from Wikitravel. This is bad. If these page don't get imported, someone else may copy articles from Wikitravel without using the proper article-import feature. After history imported, we can start Hungarian, Finnish and Japanese Wikivoyages immediately. New edits (partly by Wikitravel staffs) are constructive and should also be imported. Currently Japanese Wikivoyage is not active but Japanese Wikitravel is. After import, we should tell users to go to Wikivoyage.--GZWDer (talk) 03:38, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Just to be clear, at this point all I can do is provide the data in the form of raw XML files, but I can't import it into a Mediawiki instance - someone else will need to do that. If someone tells me where to upload the data I'm happy to do so. -- Ryan • (talk) • 04:15, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
@Wrh2: I think these 3 Wikivoyages should be created first, so that we don't need to add prefixes to pages.--GZWDer (talk) 04:47, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Question: Coordination for gadgets shared across languages[edit]

Recently English Wikivoyage has made some updates to the listing editor, the main page carousel, and the listing template. Most of these items are shared (to some extent) between Wikivoyage language versions, so I'm wondering if there are suggestions for coordinating on changes so that each language version may benefit from changes made in others. I know that the Germans help resolve issues with the dynamic maps on English Wikivoyage, and User:Andyrom75 has been active in suggesting that English Wikivoyage implement Javascript fixes made on Italian Wikivoyage, but do we have any more formal way to contribute changes between language versions? If not, are there any suggestions for doing so beyond posting a message here? -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:27, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

On Russian Wikivoyage, we are currently working on the listing editor. Concerning the common ground, I am afraid this page is the only one watched by representatives of a reasonable amount of different communities. (also Wikivoyage/Summit, but it is half-dead). --Ymblanter (talk) 10:32, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Although I agree with Ymblanter regarding the use of this page, I'm still convinced that this page is the key for interlingual teamwork. Only using actively the pages of meta, these pages would be more accessed and read. --Andyrom75 (talk) 08:21, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
For anyone who is interested, I've put a summary of recent changes made to the listing editor on English Wikivoyage at voy:en:MediaWiki talk:Gadget-ListingEditor.js#Summary of recent changes. -- Ryan • (talk) • 02:43, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Pagebanner extension[edit]

It looks like efforts to move at least some of the current voy:en:Template:Pagebanner functionality to a Wikimedia extension might turn into a Google Summer of Code project. Discussion so far hasn't included representatives from too many Wikivoyage language versions, so if people have feedback or just want to track progress the phabricator ticket is at phabricator:T77925. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Ryan, for highlight this phab. ticket. --Andyrom75 (talk) 00:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
See this one as well. --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:59, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Swedish Wikivoyage[edit]

I am trying to relaunch sv.wikivoyage.org which has been deserted and dead for some time, any kind of suggestions, ideas and general support is warmly welcome! Dan Koehl (talk) 11:39, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Dan Koehl, first of all welcome and good luck with this adventure :-)
Then I would suggest you to make a tour in any of the others languages to see at the first glance which are the standards that each language has decided to follow for their articles, and choose the one that are more suitable for you.
Going deeper you'll see that technically each version has minor differences from both a technical and logical point of view.
Initially it would be better to exactly follow one of them, and afterward evaluate the possibility of a customization.
In my opinion the "must have" features are the banners and the listings. If you need support for their implementation let me know, I'll be glad to give you some support. --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:53, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, Andyrom75, yes, especially reg the banners I would be greatful for help, once youve done it, Im sure I will get it, but right now Im not sure about those two things. So please give it a try, if you have the time, and I agree that the more standardized the different language sections are, the better. Dan Koehl (talk) 15:10, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

GPX integration enhancement[edit]

After almost a month of work and experiment, and also thanks to the precious support of Joachim, on it:voy: we have implemented a new GPX feature that allow to download a GPX of all the POI (i.e. listing with coordinates) and tracks (i.e. path shown in the dynamic map) present in an article, into a GPX formatted file that can be uploaded in a GPS equipment compatible with this format.

Once uploaded a traveller will be able to reach any POI (or follow any track) without the need of an internet connection.

Current implementation has the benefit of following the same numbering and colors of our listing, of any language version. Downloaded file will be saved as Page title_lang.gpx, so it would be possible to store more than one file for each location.


Its implementation is quite easy for all the Wikivoyage language version that are already configured to use listing/mapframe & the new MW indicator feature:

Once done a new icon will appear in the indicator section. Through this icon will be possible to download the GPX file. Try any it:voy article to test it.

Feel free to propose suggestions and highlight any bug in this functionality that you may find out. --Andyrom75 (talk) 11:41, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

That's great! One of our admins has been asking for this feature since the very start of Wikivoyage. I am thrilled to see it working! --Alexander (talk) 18:48, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Alexander feel free to roam aroung the it:voy article and click on the GPX icon to download any GPX file you like :-)
The implementation on ru:voy should be quite easy, but in case of need feel free to ping for help ;-) --Andyrom75 (talk) 21:47, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
I have implemented it already. The long-sought connection to OsmAnd is awesome! Thanks to all who contributed! --Alexander (talk) 21:06, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Further thoughts[edit]

I suggest to think what else could be done in this direction. For example:

  • Would it be possible/practical to read opening hours and descriptions? Can one store them in gpx-files and eventually display in OsmAnd or any other software?
  • Could one automatically generate "packages" of gpx-files for all destinations in a given region? Or perhaps gpx-files for all destinations at once?
  • We already have offline version of Wikivoyage in Kiwix. Would it be possible to integrate gpx-files into it?

--Alexander (talk) 18:24, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Everything have been tested so far on OsmAnd. By now we haven't found a standard way to add further information, but for sure in the future it would be possible.
It shouldn't be difficult to download packages. Any suggestion on where to add the icon/link that would activate it? Putting other icons in the indicator's area could be messy.
I know people that work on Kiwix. I can try to investigate it with them. --Andyrom75 (talk) 22:01, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Regarding the packages, the main question is how to build them. The download icon could simply go to the end of the page close to the article status bar. --Alexander (talk) 03:44, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
The script must be written server side. Thinking on it:voy, the easiest & quickest way is collecting all the article of a certain territory through the categories that are automatically created. Do you use categories on ru:voy?
The icon in a status box template (or another non-standard) will became locally dependent (i.e. it won't have the same implementation over the various language versions).
What about implement this feature outside the articles (i.e. in a separate dedicated page)? --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:25, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, separate page could be a good solution. So, to my understanding, next step is to have a script that will produce gpx files for all pages from a given category. --Alexander (talk) 14:39, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
I think that a category is the easiest way to evaluate which (city?) articles are linked to another one (region?).
Does ru:voy use category as well? In that case we may think on adding this icon, not in a "generic" separate page, but exactly in the page of the category. What do you think? --Andyrom75 (talk) 20:02, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
We almost do not use categories, probably extra categories need to be discussed at the Travellers' Pub.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:09, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
I currently developing a graphic-oriented solution for downloading GPX data for selected regions [10]. But that will take a while. - Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 10:02, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
That's a great idea too! But I think we should not give up simple solutions like a single gpx file for all pages in a given category. Will it be feasible? --Alexander (talk) 08:08, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
There are already advances in program development (working example). A solution with categories I want to rethink later. - Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 08:44, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
The script is now almost finished [11]. Please test and make suggestions. -- Mey2008 (talk) 04:40, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Excellent job as usual :) If possible I would suggest to add a switch-button on the main map (i.e. e.g. The one contained in it:voy:Tematica:Destinazioni) that will activate/deactivate the possibility to select a group of destination to download their GPX. Is it possible? Ps see also your de:voy talk page. --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
With the layer control you only can switched on and off the map layer. But I plan the summary of Poimap, Articlesmap and Gpxmap. A switch for GPX downloads would be useful then. -- Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 04:44, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata for listings![edit]

Great news: Wikidata will be available for listings soon! (May 19th at the English Wikivoyage)

This will allow our Wikivoyages to collaborate much more than before. If you don't have it already, add a "wikidata" property to your listings templates.

Many Wikidata items already contain name, coordinates, website, social media accounts, address, image, Wikipedia page, etc. Let's reuse these properties, and contribute them to Wikidata when missing! :-) Example: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q19675

Cheers! User:Syced (talk) 08:45, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Syced (or Nicholas, or whichever you wanna call yourself :-P). One question. Is now possible from a page whose istance is Qxxxxx to access to information stored on an instance Qyyyyy? In the past this wasn't possible due to a bug never solved. Let me know, --Andyrom75 (talk) 04:32, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
That is what will be deployed May 19th on the English Wikivoyage. It will come to other Wikivoyages soon. --Rschen7754 04:35, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
And English Wikivoyage has had two discussions (one, two) on this topic, but they were not very insightful. --Alexander (talk) 08:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Excellent news! Thanks for the information. It's long time that I was waiting for this enhancement. Do you know which would be the schedule for it:voy? --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:57, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Not yet known, certainly not before beginning of June.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:38, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
It has been deployed, and it is working well! See the "National Art Center Tokyo" listing at https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Tokyo/Roppongi#See : the URL and the dynamic map thumbnail image come from that museum's own Wikidata item. Also, we are adding a wikidata="Qxxxx" parameter in our listings. Please do it too, so that we can start sharing (or at least detecting discrepancies) as soon as possible :-) Cheers! Syced (talk) 07:12, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Syced, I'm quite sure that you have already noticed the issues on the dynamic map (missing name on the pop-up and image not working). Any remedy? --Andyrom75 (talk) 23:15, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Pagebanner extension for Wikivoyage[edit]

Hi all, I'm Sumit. A proposal for a pagebanner extension for Wikivoyage which had been posted sometime back, is now moving ahead under the guidance of User:Jdlrobson and User:Syced. As of now only a basic setup of the extension has been developed which adds a default specified banner on all main namespace pages, and replaces it with a custom banner, if a construct like {{PAGEBANNER:File.jpg}} is used. As it is being developed, all its live changes can be tried out at this test wiki. Your comments and/or views and/or feature additions shall be very helpful during the development process. The development shall follow the lines of the proposal much of which has been taken from Template:Pagebanner and its discussion page and will be modified depending upon the feedback.
For giving feedback, one can view the pagebanner workboard which has a few open tasks to be achieved in the coming time. If a task you wish to comment on already exists, simply go to that task and leave your comment. If it does not exist, you can create a new one from here(both require a phabricator account). While creating a new task, remember to add WikidataPageBanner to the Projects list so that it appears on the pagebanner workboard. Example of a task thats already open for discussion is this.
Whenever I'll add any significant feature, I'll leave a comment here, for everyone to see on the test wiki. For all other purposes, the progress can be monitored any time by looking at the tasks on the pagebanner workboard.
Looking forward to your cooperation. Feel free to comment and discuss.--Sumit.iitp (talk) 07:27, 20 May 2015 (UTC)