Wikivoyage/Lounge

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This is the Wikivoyage Lounge on Meta where we discuss the Wikivoyage project in general and issues related to more than one language version. Old discussions are archived.

Monthly reports from each edition of Wikivoyage can be found on the Summit page.

這裡是維基導遊多語言休息室。我們在這裡能使用不同語言討論在維基導遊計畫中遇到的一些問題。 每個月將會記錄在峰會上。

The visual editor[edit]

Hello, all! This is just a note to say that, if you're involved in the smaller Wikivoyages, please check your local Traveller's Pub or equivalent page this week for information about editing tools.

Also, I noticed that the listings buttons in the toolbar for the wikitext editor are showing the wrong icons on several Wikivoyages – curved lines, rather than the correct icons. (Example) It seems to me that this has been discussed before and that someone knows how to fix it. (This problem doesn't affect the bigger Wikivoyages: German doesn't seem to have these, and en, fr, it, and ru are displaying them correctly.) If you know or can find out how to fix these, then maybe we can work together to get this fixed. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:30, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

This issue with the listings buttons comes from several months ago, and I particulary don't know how to fix it. --Zerabat (discusión) 15:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
About the listings buttons, it has been fixed in eswikivoyage: voy:es:Special:Diff/128406. --Zerabat (discusión) 21:54, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
It looks like https://uk.wikivoyage.org and https://pt.wikivoyage.org still need to have this fixed. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:07, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Lint errors[edit]

In the last few days I've working to solve some errors listed in the "it:voy lint errors special page" that will turn into layout issues once the server software migration will occur (i.e. 2018).

I suggest that all the maintainers of every language version would do the same. Here the links:

--Andyrom75 (talk) 08:03, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I will look into this, in regard to voy:sv during the next days. Dan Koehl (talk) 15:53, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:16, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
If you run into problems, then you can ping me. I don't know how to fix most of them myself, but I do know several people who have been working on them. You can also leave a message at w:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Check Wikipedia to find some of them.
By the way, if your wiki has a large number of errors, then start by fixing as many errors in templates as you can. I'm told that fixing just one template solved thousands of these errors at one of the Wikipedias. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I propose to check highly-used templates first to reduce the numbers of lint errors. Unfortunately, there is a bug checking module pages for lint errors although they use a different content model. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:06, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
In case of "Obsolete HTML tags" we should ask for a bot. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:11, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I confirm that the "template approach" helps a lot, I've removed thousands of issues just with them. I've noticed that also our "base listing template" generate a "span" issue (that generate thousands of low priorities occurrences) but I'm not still able to solve it. --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:20, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
If you can, please tell me where I can find more information to fix these errors. --Zerabat (discusión) 20:17, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Generic information about the issues can be found here. In most cases, to fix them is enough to know well both HTML and wiki-syntax rules. --Andyrom75 (talk) 06:41, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
On en:voy I've solved around 200K issue working only Template:Listing‎. See comments in history and in talk page. It would be useful for other language versions. --Andyrom75 (talk) 00:38, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
With only two templates, font color and de:Vorlage:Center|center, we could remove most of our obsolete tag failures. The usage of regular expressions with a JavaScript was really helpful to replace these tags by the templates. --RolandUnger (talk) 18:16, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
RolandUnger in de:voy you already had voy:de:Vorlage:Color. In it:voy I used voy:it:Template:ColoreTesto and accoding to Wikidata link the de:voy template should be equivalent. Why you have created a new one?
By the way, watch out on replacing straight that template because there are some cases where you need to apply a different rule, let me give you two example:
  1. FONT can be applied to an anchor (i.e. A) while SPAN must be applied to the label. This is valid for both external and internal link
  2. CENTER can be applied to an IMAGE (or also a more complex content) while DIV should be treated in a slight different way to obtain same effect (in most cases I have used style="margin:auto;" in an inner DIV).
--Andyrom75 (talk) 20:35, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Most wikis including meta use both font color and color. It makes maybe sense to use one of them as a redirect to the other. Both templates were imported from the English Wikipedia. From our experience, about 95% of all <font> tags were used to set colors, the other ones to format headers (instead of h3 or h4). Nobody used the font tag for anchors. We could replace them all.

Our center template uses both margin (0 auto) and text-align (center) styles which is suitable for all cases. There is a set of templates and other tools to do the same: to center. Images (center parameter), galleries (class="center") and maps have built-in center opportunities. Style-sheet declarations are useful means for instance in case of tables, too. There were no cases where we could not found a substitute. --RolandUnger (talk) 04:44, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

RolandUnger, although is not strictly related to lint errors, I take the chance to ask you a question. In the past if I applied align="center" to galleries works correctly but recently don't. As far as you know, is a current bug or is correct that it doesn't work? I haven't found anything on MW documentation. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:49, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
In galleries class="center" is working; align="center" seems not to be supported. Stylesheets can be used to format the captions. You cannot combine perrow="n" and class="center"; perrow is stronger. --RolandUnger (talk) 09:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Maybe align will be/is removed for all elements like the intended removal of font, center, etc. --RolandUnger (talk) 09:24, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I've replaced both the align="center" and the "center tag" that surround a gallery with class="center". Now everything works perfectly. --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:56, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
At Wikivoyage/de we solved most of the lint errors. The remaining errors are false positives or were produced by one (unused) template. --RolandUnger (talk) 04:37, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

New terms on community engagement[edit]

WMF is currenly trying to redefine the terms of community engagement (which in the pas was operates as Global North vs Global South). The proposal has been open for community discussion: Community Engagement/Defining Emerging Communities. The currently version states directly that WMF will not proactively invest in Wikivoyage due to low impact. More explanations, confirming that this is indeed the case and not an error of interpretation are at the talk page (Talk:Community Engagement/Defining Emerging Communities#Wikivoyage). Whereas it does not come as a surprise - we know that after initial help with migration, which was already not very welcoming (I sometimes felt like WMF people consider us as their hired workforce), the investment in Wikivoyage was zero, and whatever we needed we had to do ourselves (and whatever we did not manage to do ourselves still has not been done), and in this sense I welcome the decision of WMF to state it explicitly. Just writing protests at the talk page is in my experience useless - the decision has been taken, and all we can get would be "we are sorry that you feel this was, but this is our decision". However, I think that we as Wikivoyage community should be aware of this discussion, of the WMF position in general, and possibly discuss whether we are going to react. In any case, now it is clear that coordinating the development effort between different versions (possibly excluding English Wikivoyage, who do not care about other language versions) would be beneficial.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:06, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Support Support your proposal for interlanguage coordination between Wikivoyages. In the case of Spanish Wikivoyage, there are not any editor with knowledge of coding, and due to that we are not by ourselves able to write or develop any tool or extension to improve technically Wikivoyage. But the very few dedicated editors there will be willing to do everything within our reach to collaborate with this project. It's sad and a pity that Wikivoyage will not receive any active support. --Zerabat (discusión) 22:25, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Even though I am an enthusiastic Wikivoyage editor in several languages, I can understand that WMF considers Wikivoyage as less important than Wikipedia/Wiktionary. I am glad that they host our Wiki free of charge/ads, and maintain (security bugs etc) the software that runs it. Wikivoyage-specific technical improvement will still be possible via community development and GSoC/etc. I totally agree with you that inter-languages collaboration is important, and I am a living proof that some members of the English Wikivoyage care about other languages :-) Syced (talk) 08:39, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Participate in Dispute Resolution Focus Group[edit]

The Harvard Negotiation & Mediation Clinical Program is working with the Wikimedia Foundation to help communities develop tools to resolve disputes. You are invited to participate in a focus group aimed at identifying needs and developing possible solutions through collaborative design thinking.

If you are interested in participating, please add your name to the signup list on the Meta-Wiki page.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to learn from the Wikimedia community. We value all of your opinions and look forward to hearing from you. JosephNegotiation (talk) 16:28, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Announcing Map improvements 2018[edit]

Over the next four months, the WMF Collaboration team will be making improvements to mapping software (Kartographer) and related functions. The team’s engagement with maps was prompted in part by the overwhelming support the maps community gave the 2017 Community Wishlist proposal for Kartographer Improvements. The project, which we’re calling Map Improvements 2018, is currently in its very early research and planning stages. It has a limited term and is scheduled to conclude at the end of June.

The immediate goals of the Map Improvements project are:

  • To ensure that Kartographer and the associated maps technology stack are stable and can be easily maintained as maps gain a wider audience.
  • To accomplish the two “main wishes” named in the Community Wishlist proposal, along with as many of the other wishes as are possible in the time provided. The main wishes are T112948, “All map location names should be shown in the user's language” (an extremely challenging but crucial job), and T180907, “Add zoom level 19.”

Goals that relate to extending maps to a wider audience—such as bringing mapframe functionality to English Wikipedia (as requested by RfC) and making sure that mapframe works properly on wikis that use Flagged Revisions—are also under serious consideration.

Please visit the project page on MediaWiki.org to learn more and share your ideas and questions. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 22:49, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Great, thanks a lot.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:50, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Enabling a helpful feature for Template editors[edit]

Read this in another language • Please help translate to your language

Hello.

The team working on TemplateStyles at the Wikimedia Foundation would like to enable TemplateStyles on this wiki.

TemplateStyles is a feature to allow non-administrators to write and manage CSS styles for templates. It allows contributors who edit templates to separate content and presentation. A good web practice that makes it easier to manage the layout of templates. If you don't edit templates, this will not have any impact on your contributions.

TemplateStyles is useful for a few reasons.

  • It makes it possible for templates to work better on mobile.
  • It cuts out confusion on where to apply CSS rules.
  • Editing CSS is currently limited to administrators, which is a major barrier to participation.
  • All stylesheets must be loaded on all pages (whether they actually use the page or not), which wastes bandwidth and makes debugging style rules more difficult.

You can learn more about TemplateStyles on MediaWiki.org. Technical documentation is also available.

This is an optional feature and no one must use it, but template contributors are encouraged to do so! Please discuss and let us know if there are any concerns. If there are no concerns we will proceed to deploy the feature on the 28th of March.

Thank you.

Whatamidoing (WMF) on behalf of CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 21:54, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

An update on map internationalization[edit]

I wanted to let you know that Collaboration Team is planning to release map internationalization next week for testing on testwiki. When it’s ready, we’ll post a note to let you know. But meanwhile, you might like to check out the detailed post I added last night to the Map Improvements 2018 project board: Special Update on Map Internationalization. It includes a lot of information on the project status, how the feature will work, how we imagine it might be useful, what the known limitations are, etc. . I’m looking forward to getting your input on this challenging but important feature; the best place to leave your ideas and questions is on the project talk page. —JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 21:36, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Great, thanks a lot.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:24, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Maps in the language of your choice—try it out on testwiki[edit]

You can now display maps in languages of your choice on testwiki. I made two pages to demonstrate the new features, on testwiki and testwiki2  (embedded maps on test2 are dynamic; those on test are static until you click to pop up an enlargement).

By default, internationalized maps display in the language of the wiki (which is English for the testwikis). So to experiment with these features, you’ll want to use the two new mapframe parameters we’ve added. Just insert them into your mapframe code.

  • lang=”xx”  Shows map labels in the language you specify with the short language codes used for each wiki.
  • lang=“local” Shows map labels in the languages of the territory mapped (essentially opting out of internationalization).

Right now, internationalization works only with mapframe, not maplink (which should be working some time next week). You can read more about this new feature and how to use it on the Map Improvements 2018 project page, under Updates. Our plan is to wait a week or two and assess user comments about the feature. At that point, we’ll decide whether to move forward with a general release or keep making fixes.

So please try the new features out  and leave feedback on the Map Improvements 2018 talk page. We’re listening! –JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 21:24, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Map internationalization launched everywhere—and embedded maps now live on 276 Wikipedias[edit]

As of today, interactive (Kartographer) maps no longer display in the language of the territory mapped; instead, you’ll read them in the content language of the wiki where they appear—or in the language their authors specify (subject to availability of multilingual data). In addition, mapframe, the feature that automatically embeds dynamic maps right on a wiki page, is now live on most Wikipedias that lacked the feature. (Not included in the mapframe launch are nine Wikipedias that use the stricter version of Flagged Revisions).

If you you’re new to mapframe, this Kartographer help page shows how to get started putting dynamic maps on your pages.  If you’d like to read more about map internationalization: this Special Update explains the feature and its limitations; this post and this one describe the uses of the new parameter, lang=”xx”, which  lets you specify a map’s language. And here are some example maps, to illustrate the new capabilities.

These features could not have been created without the generous programming contributions and advice of map-loving volunteers, including Yurik, framawiki, Naveenpf, TheDJ, Milu92, Atsirlin, Evad37, Pigsonthewing, Mike Peel, eranroz, Gareth and Abbe98. My apologies to anyone I’ve missed.

The Collaboration team's Map Improvements 2018 project wraps up at the end of June, so please give internationalized maps and mapframe a try soon and give us your feedback on the project talk page. We’re listening. —JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 20:59, 9 May 2018 (UTC)