Wikivoyage/Lounge

From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki
Jump to: navigation, search


This is the Wikivoyage Lounge on Meta where we discuss the Wikivoyage project in general and issues related to one language version. Old discussions are archived.

Monthly reports from each edition of the one and only Wikivoyage, the English Wikivoyage can be found on the Summit page.


The visual editor[edit]

Hello, all! This is just a note to say that, if you're involved in the smaller Wikivoyages, please check your local Traveller's Pub or equivalent page this week for information about editing tools.

Also, I noticed that the listings buttons in the toolbar for the wikitext editor are showing the wrong icons on several Wikivoyages – curved lines, rather than the correct icons. (Example) It seems to me that this has been discussed before and that someone knows how to fix it. (This problem doesn't affect the bigger Wikivoyages: German doesn't seem to have these, and en, fr, it, and ru are displaying them correctly.) If you know or can find out how to fix these, then maybe we can work together to get this fixed. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:30, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

This issue with the listings buttons comes from several months ago, and I particulary don't know how to fix it. --Zerabat (discusión) 15:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
About the listings buttons, it has been fixed in eswikivoyage: voy:es:Special:Diff/128406. --Zerabat (discusión) 21:54, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
It looks like https://uk.wikivoyage.org and https://pt.wikivoyage.org still need to have this fixed. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:07, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Mapframe working weirdly[edit]

I noticed that the Mapframe is working weirdly in Finnish Wikivoyage. For example if you go to this page and click the map, you are redirected into Toiminnot:Map/11/-0.1504/-78.4735. (Clicking the map should not redirect to anywhere.) This problem occurs also in some English WV articles: here the map works weirdly, but there the map works correctly. --Kulmalukko (talk) 11:56, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

@Kulmalukko:, which map are you talking about? If I go to fi:voy:Quito, I only see the frame for the map on the right side. If I click there, nothing happens, and, I believe, nothing should happen, though I can resize it by a mouse. In en:voy:Helsinki/West is exactly the same for me; in addition, above the banner they have a link to the map which works for me. I am on laptop, Win 7 and FF last version.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:34, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, it seems to work correctly now. (Yesterday it didn't.) --Kulmalukko (talk) 12:25, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Wiki 4 Coop[edit]

Buenos días a todos,

Vengo a ustedes para invitar a leer la presentación de un nuevo proyecto de asociación entre el movimiento Wikimedia y ONG belgas. El proyecto se llama Wiki 4 Coop y me invitan a descubrir los página de presentación en Meta-Wiki (en Inglés). Por favor, tenga proyecto ( endoso ) si se le dice e correga mi Inglés si tiene un poco de tiempo. Una hermosa tarde a todos Lionel Scheepmans Contact French native speaker, sorry for my dysorthography 12:00, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Strategy/Wikimedia movement/2017/Sources/Russian Wikivoyage[edit]

This is too late (my apologies for forgetting posting here). just wanted to lat everybody know that at the Russian Wikivoyage we produced a joint vision for the strategy exercise, available at the link above. Step 1 of the consultations is closed, but good ideas are always welcome anyway.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:19, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Maps changes[edit]

Hello,

I am Paul Norman, a contractor working with the Maps team on Discovery at improving the Wikimedia map styles, infrastructure, and other map-related tasks. My background is as an OpenStreetMap developer, and I am a maintainer of the OpenStreetMap Carto style, the default on osm.org, as well as many other components in a standard OSM map rendering setup.

As part of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T153282 a new style for Wikimedia maps is being developed, and I've loaded the whole planet on one of my servers as a test and demo.

The demo is available at http://legolas.paulnorman.ca:6789/, and through "Compare" on the right-hand side of the interface you can compare it with the current Wikimedia style, OpenStreetMap Carto, and lots of others. Some other things to be aware of when comparing are:

  • The map is displayed with Kosmtik, a design tool with minimal caching, and it might be restarted while I'm working on it
  • Even though the server is faster than production, it may appear slower because it doesn't have everything cached
  • The OSM data on the server is normally within a day of the latest data

Some of the more noticeable style changes are

  • Road colours are different, helping view the overall layout of the city
  • There are fewer cases of subtly different shades of green.
  • Bridges and multi-level road constructions are now handled properly, which should make some areas easier to figure out

I am particularly interested in feedback on

  • the overall colour darkness and intensity,

Feedback is welcome, either through email, phab tickets, or by IRC in #wikimedia-interactive on freenode. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by pnorman (talk)

Just so others realize: Special:EmailUser/Pnorman. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:33, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Ah yes, this was based on the maps-l@ email, where email is obvious. I'll also be watching this. Pnorman (talk) 21:42, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I have just had a quick look at the new map for Gateshead and for Edinburgh Old Town, and this is a good step forward. In these multilevel city centres the bridges are shown much better, but stairs between the levels are not clear (e.g. at lat=55.95116 | long=-3.18852). I do still prefer the Mapnik layer, mainly because a lot of things of interest are labelled - museums, hotels, building numbers in some streets etc. AlasdairW (talk) 22:26, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@AlasdairW: voy:en:Gateshead doesn't have a map. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:48, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
It has a full page map if you click on the map icon at the right above the banner photo, which I used to compare with the demo. (I will add a mapframe to the article.) AlasdairW (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@AlasdairW: Brilliant. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)TCM 23:00, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

[edit]

Dear Colleagues,

Wiki Loves Earth 2017, the photo competition aimed at collecting photos of protected natural areas, has started today. We seek to collect photos that can be used on Wikivoyage and also organize a satellite competition dedicated to page banners. We have held such a competition already last year and received 88 beautiful page banners for Russia, many of them currently used on Wikivoyage.

The submission rules are described here. In short, only banners which are made of your own regular submissions to WLE 2017 are eligible, and they must be uploaded via a special link. If you fancy page banner for a Russian destination, use a different upload link, because we will award a separate prize. The competition runs till the end of May.

All banners submitted for this competition will be evaluated by our jury. We will consider both artistic value of individual banners and their merit for Wikivoyage, namely whether the banner is used or can be used in Wikivoyage articles, how well it conveys the feel of the destination, etc. We will have two small prizes, one for banners of Russian destinations and one for banners from abroad.

If you don't fancy uploading page banners but feel interested in our initiative, you can join our jury and help us in grading the banners. Just leave us a note here or contact us in person, and we will get back to you.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:35, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Uruguay[edit]

Para variar, I aded information on Uruguay, please review it. Can I use my wikipedia Account here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.57.67.209 (talk)

@167.57.67.209: Yes, you can. Which language of Wikivoyage did you edit? —Justin (koavf)TCM 03:45, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I guess s/he edited the English version, although that help is also needed in Spanish (language which is spoken in Uruguay) Wikivoyage's article due to be undeveloped there. Anonymous editor, can you please add that information in the Spanish version too? --Zerabat (discusión) 19:31, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Lint errors[edit]

In the last few days I've working to solve some errors listed in the "it:voy lint errors special page" that will turn into layout issues once the server software migration will occur (i.e. 2018).

I suggest that all the maintainers of every language version would do the same. Here the links:

--Andyrom75 (talk) 08:03, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I will look into this, in regard to voy:sv during the next days. Dan Koehl (talk) 15:53, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:16, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
If you run into problems, then you can ping me. I don't know how to fix most of them myself, but I do know several people who have been working on them. You can also leave a message at w:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Check Wikipedia to find some of them.
By the way, if your wiki has a large number of errors, then start by fixing as many errors in templates as you can. I'm told that fixing just one template solved thousands of these errors at one of the Wikipedias. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I propose to check highly-used templates first to reduce the numbers of lint errors. Unfortunately, there is a bug checking module pages for lint errors although they use a different content model. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:06, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
In case of "Obsolete HTML tags" we should ask for a bot. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:11, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I confirm that the "template approach" helps a lot, I've removed thousands of issues just with them. I've noticed that also our "base listing template" generate a "span" issue (that generate thousands of low priorities occurrences) but I'm not still able to solve it. --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:20, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
If you can, please tell me where I can find more information to fix these errors. --Zerabat (discusión) 20:17, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Generic information about the issues can be found here. In most cases, to fix them is enough to know well both HTML and wiki-syntax rules. --Andyrom75 (talk) 06:41, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
On en:voy I've solved around 200K issue working only Template:Listing‎. See comments in history and in talk page. It would be useful for other language versions. --Andyrom75 (talk) 00:38, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
With only two templates, font color and de:Vorlage:Center|center, we could remove most of our obsolete tag failures. The usage of regular expressions with a JavaScript was really helpful to replace these tags by the templates. --RolandUnger (talk) 18:16, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
RolandUnger in de:voy you already had voy:de:Vorlage:Color. In it:voy I used voy:it:Template:ColoreTesto and accoding to Wikidata link the de:voy template should be equivalent. Why you have created a new one?
By the way, watch out on replacing straight that template because there are some cases where you need to apply a different rule, let me give you two example:
  1. FONT can be applied to an anchor (i.e. A) while SPAN must be applied to the label. This is valid for both external and internal link
  2. CENTER can be applied to an IMAGE (or also a more complex content) while DIV should be treated in a slight different way to obtain same effect (in most cases I have used style="margin:auto;" in an inner DIV).
--Andyrom75 (talk) 20:35, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Most wikis including meta use both font color and color. It makes maybe sense to use one of them as a redirect to the other. Both templates were imported from the English Wikipedia. From our experience, about 95% of all <font> tags were used to set colors, the other ones to format headers (instead of h3 or h4). Nobody used the font tag for anchors. We could replace them all.

Our center template uses both margin (0 auto) and text-align (center) styles which is suitable for all cases. There is a set of templates and other tools to do the same: to center. Images (center parameter), galleries (class="center") and maps have built-in center opportunities. Style-sheet declarations are useful means for instance in case of tables, too. There were no cases where we could not found a substitute. --RolandUnger (talk) 04:44, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

RolandUnger, although is not strictly related to lint errors, I take the chance to ask you a question. In the past if I applied align="center" to galleries works correctly but recently don't. As far as you know, is a current bug or is correct that it doesn't work? I haven't found anything on MW documentation. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:49, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
In galleries class="center" is working; align="center" seems not to be supported. Stylesheets can be used to format the captions. You cannot combine perrow="n" and class="center"; perrow is stronger. --RolandUnger (talk) 09:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Maybe align will be/is removed for all elements like the intended removal of font, center, etc. --RolandUnger (talk) 09:24, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I've replaced both the align="center" and the "center tag" that surround a gallery with class="center". Now everything works perfectly. --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:56, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
At Wikivoyage/de we solved most of the lint errors. The remaining errors are false positives or were produced by one (unused) template. --RolandUnger (talk) 04:37, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

New terms on community engagement[edit]

WMF is currenly trying to redefine the terms of community engagement (which in the pas was operates as Global North vs Global South). The proposal has been open for community discussion: Community Engagement/Defining Emerging Communities. The currently version states directly that WMF will not proactively invest in Wikivoyage due to low impact. More explanations, confirming that this is indeed the case and not an error of interpretation are at the talk page (Talk:Community Engagement/Defining Emerging Communities#Wikivoyage). Whereas it does not come as a surprise - we know that after initial help with migration, which was already not very welcoming (I sometimes felt like WMF people consider us as their hired workforce), the investment in Wikivoyage was zero, and whatever we needed we had to do ourselves (and whatever we did not manage to do ourselves still has not been done), and in this sense I welcome the decision of WMF to state it explicitly. Just writing protests at the talk page is in my experience useless - the decision has been taken, and all we can get would be "we are sorry that you feel this was, but this is our decision". However, I think that we as Wikivoyage community should be aware of this discussion, of the WMF position in general, and possibly discuss whether we are going to react. In any case, now it is clear that coordinating the development effort between different versions (possibly excluding English Wikivoyage, who do not care about other language versions) would be beneficial.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:06, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Support Support your proposal for interlanguage coordination between Wikivoyages. In the case of Spanish Wikivoyage, there are not any editor with knowledge of coding, and due to that we are not by ourselves able to write or develop any tool or extension to improve technically Wikivoyage. But the very few dedicated editors there will be willing to do everything within our reach to collaborate with this project. It's sad and a pity that Wikivoyage will not receive any active support. --Zerabat (discusión) 22:25, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Even though I am an enthusiastic Wikivoyage editor in several languages, I can understand that WMF considers Wikivoyage as less important than Wikipedia/Wiktionary. I am glad that they host our Wiki free of charge/ads, and maintain (security bugs etc) the software that runs it. Wikivoyage-specific technical improvement will still be possible via community development and GSoC/etc. I totally agree with you that inter-languages collaboration is important, and I am a living proof that some members of the English Wikivoyage care about other languages :-) Syced (talk) 08:39, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Participate in Dispute Resolution Focus Group[edit]

The Harvard Negotiation & Mediation Clinical Program is working with the Wikimedia Foundation to help communities develop tools to resolve disputes. You are invited to participate in a focus group aimed at identifying needs and developing possible solutions through collaborative design thinking.

If you are interested in participating, please add your name to the signup list on the Meta-Wiki page.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to learn from the Wikimedia community. We value all of your opinions and look forward to hearing from you. JosephNegotiation (talk) 16:28, 2 November 2017 (UTC)