Wikivoyage/Lounge

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This is the Wikivoyage Lounge on Meta where we discuss the Wikivoyage project in general and issues related to one language version. Old discussions are archived.

Monthly reports from each edition of the one and only Wikivoyage, the English Wikivoyage can be found on the Summit page.


Recent changes on en: that might be useful for other languages[edit]

There have been two recent changes on English Wikivoyage that other language versions might be interested in:

  1. The listing editor has been significantly updated. See voy:en:Wikivoyage:Listing editor#Changelog for a list of all changes. The code at voy:en:MediaWiki:Gadget-ListingEditor.js has been heavily commented to hopefully make it easier to customize for other languages, and if anyone is interested I can help to port things. An untested sample implementation for Italian Wikivoyage can be viewed at voy:en:User:Wrh2/Gadget-ListingEditor-it.js
  2. The page banner is now using the new mw:Extension:WikidataPageBanner extension. This extension allows smaller files to be downloaded on mobile devices and enables a drop-down table of contents so that sub-headings are again navigable. Any language wanting to use this extension would need to request that it be enabled via a phabricator: ticket.

While language issues and different community preferences make it difficult to coordinate between Wikivoyage language versions, if any other language versions would like to try to consolidate the different listing editors and banner implementations in use across projects I'm willing to help coordinate. -- Ryan • (talk) • 00:20, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Ryan, I already talked about pagebanner extension with some WMF staff linked to it in order to deploy it to eswikivoyage, but seems that it was forgotten. I will open a community discussion to request input on the deployment of this extension, which I consider essential to wikivoyage mobile. Regarding Listing Editor v2, by now no one has manifested interest to take the job. --Zerabat (discusión) 14:14, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
As far as I know, this is the current situation regarding WDPB and Listings (please complete the blanks):--Zerabat (discusión) 18:54, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Language Uses pagebanner? (WDPB/Legacy PB/Without PB) Listing editor
de (German) Not using pagebanner Not installed
el (Greek) Legacy pagebanner (WD integrated) v1.4.2 localised
en (English) WikidataPagebanner v2.1
es (Spanish) WikidataPagebanner v1.4.2 localised
fa (Farsi) custom version
fr (French) WikidataPagebanner v2.1 adapted
he (Hebrew) Not installed
it (Italian) v2.1 adapted
nl (Dutch) v1.4.2 localised
pl (Polish) Not installed
pt (Portuguese) Not installed
ro (Romanian) v1.4.2 localised
ru (Russian) v1.4.2 localised
sv (Swedish) Not installed
uk (Ukrainian) v2.0 localised
vi (Vietnamese) v2.0
zh (Chinese) v1.4.2 localised

The Wikidata Listings Olympics[edit]

  • French Wikivoyage: 6031 listings with a Wikidata identifier property, 7590 listings with a Wikipedia identifier property
  • English Wikivoyage: 4168 listings with a Wikidata identifier property
  • Russian Wikivoyage: 2812 listings with a Wikidata identifier property
  • German Wikivoyage: 277 listings with a Wikidata identifier property
  • Ukrainian: Wikipedia identifier property present in listing template, not counted
  • Greek, Spanish, Hebrew, Polish, Italian, Portuguese, Swedish, Vietnamese: No Wikidata property

as of October 2016, counted with the Wikivoyage Listings tool.
Wikidata could be used to:

  • Cross-validate listing details,
  • Factorize listing details,
  • Fill missing listing details,
  • Easily add new listings to articles that have too few (what transvoyage does right now),
  • Generate static information pages for languages that have no Wikivoyage yet, such as Hindi or Korean,
  • And many other things, new mashups appear everyday with Wikidata.

While every Wikivoyage has their own preferences on how far to go with Wikidata, having Wikidata identifier properties in listings is a starting point we should all strive for, I think :-)

Cheers! Syced (talk) 04:23, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

In Russian Wikivoyage, we do have Wikidata in listings.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:12, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Great! Is it the attribute called "wdid"? Syced (talk) 04:16, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:13, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Updated counts with yesterday's data. Syced (talk) 04:41, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for repairing the links--Ymblanter (talk) 06:42, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
I see great potential on this approach, but on the other side, an unskilled used have no idea on what wikidata is and which is the right value to add. It risk to be a time consuming activity for the patrolling users. --Andyrom75 (talk) 18:03, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
How could we do this in eswikivoyage? Do all the listings relevant to Wikidata? --Zerabat (discusión) 12:53, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
@Zerabat: Not all listings are relevant, but certainly (almost) all attractions, and also things like airports and railway stations, are.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:14, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

The visual editor[edit]

Hello, all! This is just a note to say that, if you're involved in the smaller Wikivoyages, please check your local Traveller's Pub or equivalent page this week for information about editing tools.

Also, I noticed that the listings buttons in the toolbar for the wikitext editor are showing the wrong icons on several Wikivoyages – curved lines, rather than the correct icons. (Example) It seems to me that this has been discussed before and that someone knows how to fix it. (This problem doesn't affect the bigger Wikivoyages: German doesn't seem to have these, and en, fr, it, and ru are displaying them correctly.) If you know or can find out how to fix these, then maybe we can work together to get this fixed. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:30, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

This issue with the listings buttons comes from several months ago, and I particulary don't know how to fix it. --Zerabat (discusión) 15:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
About the listings buttons, it has been fixed in eswikivoyage: voy:es:Special:Diff/128406. --Zerabat (discusión) 21:54, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
It looks like https://uk.wikivoyage.org and https://pt.wikivoyage.org still need to have this fixed. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:07, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Create banners easily with CropTool[edit]

CropTool 7:1 aspect ratio
  1. Go to https://tools.wmflabs.org/croptool/
  2. Log in
  3. Paste the name of a Commons image, for instance: Sainte-Enimie-Gorges du Tarn-Frankreich.jpg
  4. Specify 7:1 as a custom aspect ratio
  5. Drag, resize, move the selection box
  6. Preview
  7. Save as a new image with a simple click.

So much easier than anything I have used before!

Syced (talk) 10:18, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Looks great, thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, I've just tried this tool and it's very useful and simple. Thanks for having advised us!! --Lkcl it (talk) 20:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you! Massimo Telò (talk) 21:03, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you! I have spread the word about this in Spanish Wikivoyage. --Zerabat (discusión) 16:20, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata and official tourist website[edit]

I've seen that on Wikidata the property P856 is associated to the official administrative website (mainly populated through Wikipedia).

What about the official tourist website?

I've seen for example that the Bremen instance has merged these two data, but I think that would be useful for Wikivoyage to have two separated properties in order to retrive it easily when needed.

Could be worth inject this info into Wikidata?

In the affirmative case, it:voy: has stored in Quickbar templates such information, en:voy: has added it in the incipit of some articles, and maybe other language versions has those information available in some way.

Is there anyone skilled on Wikidata import bot that can take this task in charge? Let me know, --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:36, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

I guess it is best to ask bot owners at Wikidata (d:Wikidata:Bot requests). However, first one needs to propose (and get created) the property which stores the official tourist website.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:00, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Ymblanter, do you know which is the process to propose a new property? --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:34, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes, sure, d:Wikidata:Property proposal/Sister projects--Ymblanter (talk) 07:40, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Done. Feel free to add further datails. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:18, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Ymblanter (and anyone else), if you think is an usefull information to have on Wikidata, I would invite you to take part to the discussion, otherwise the proposal risk to be abandoned. --Andyrom75 (talk) 22:52, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Sure, the page is on my watchlist, just did not have time to read carefully and respond.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:45, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
What do wikidata do when official administrative website and tourist website are the same? --Zerabat (discusión) 15:58, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Zerabat, Wikidata just store data. The problem is that we are not able to distinguish which is the touristic one. --Andyrom75 (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Currently there are two proposals on the table:
  1. Create the new "official tourist website" property
  2. Store the information on the "official tourist website" in the existing "tourist office" property (P2872). Considering that more tourist offices can exist for each toponym, we should mark one as "official"
Both need to be added to any toponym instance on wikidata once decided which is the best solution and for both is necessary to add the constraint (at least for checking/maintenance purpose) of unicity.
Please participate to the discussion on d:Wikidata:Property_proposal/official_tourist_website in order to determine which is the best solution to be applied. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 11:14, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Discussion seems to be ended with the agreement resumed here. Please adjust the sentences to make them clearer. Thanks to all that took part to the discussion. --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:24, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Populate Wikidata with official tourist websites[edit]

Is there any bot operator that is able to populate Wikidata with the official tourist websites? Detail of the request can be found here. --Andyrom75 (talk) 09:31, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Kartographer extension[edit]

As far as you know, there are many cases like it:voy:Pest#Altri parchi or en:voy:Budapest/Pest#Museums in City Park and Area where one kind of listing exceed the maximum number allowed of 99?

The old counting system didn't have this limitation and the explanation I've received is becuase the Maki icons do not allow number above 99. This limitation has been discussed and approved somewhere? --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:47, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Inside the Phabricator ticket I've inserted a temporary patch, although I still don't understand why the listing numbering that can be naturally managed by a CSS style has been demanded to a server script. The definitive resolution must be done server side. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

User group for maps & mapping related activities in Wikimedia[edit]

I have made a proposal in IdeaLab to create a Wikimaps user group.

Do you think that would be a good way for the mapping community in Wikimedia to go forward?

Activities in the Wikimaps project have been focusing on historical mapping, but the Wikimaps user group would be made for all mapping related activities. The goal is that people with many different ideas for using the geographic component in their projects would come together, share their expertise and help each other forward.

The user group would give the community an affiliate status within the Wikimedia movement, while still keeping the group organic and without organizational structures.

If you think you can endorse or join, please visit the page and leave your mark!

Best, Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 08:53, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Mapframe working weirdly[edit]

I noticed that the Mapframe is working weirdly in Finnish Wikivoyage. For example if you go to this page and click the map, you are redirected into Toiminnot:Map/11/-0.1504/-78.4735. (Clicking the map should not redirect to anywhere.) This problem occurs also in some English WV articles: here the map works weirdly, but there the map works correctly. --Kulmalukko (talk) 11:56, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

@Kulmalukko:, which map are you talking about? If I go to fi:voy:Quito, I only see the frame for the map on the right side. If I click there, nothing happens, and, I believe, nothing should happen, though I can resize it by a mouse. In en:voy:Helsinki/West is exactly the same for me; in addition, above the banner they have a link to the map which works for me. I am on laptop, Win 7 and FF last version.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:34, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, it seems to work correctly now. (Yesterday it didn't.) --Kulmalukko (talk) 12:25, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Wiki 4 Coop[edit]

Buenos días a todos,

Vengo a ustedes para invitar a leer la presentación de un nuevo proyecto de asociación entre el movimiento Wikimedia y ONG belgas. El proyecto se llama Wiki 4 Coop y me invitan a descubrir los página de presentación en Meta-Wiki (en Inglés). Por favor, tenga proyecto ( endoso ) si se le dice e correga mi Inglés si tiene un poco de tiempo. Una hermosa tarde a todos Lionel Scheepmans Contact French native speaker, sorry for my dysorthography 12:00, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Strategy/Wikimedia movement/2017/Sources/Russian Wikivoyage[edit]

This is too late (my apologies for forgetting posting here). just wanted to lat everybody know that at the Russian Wikivoyage we produced a joint vision for the strategy exercise, available at the link above. Step 1 of the consultations is closed, but good ideas are always welcome anyway.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:19, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Maps changes[edit]

Hello,

I am Paul Norman, a contractor working with the Maps team on Discovery at improving the Wikimedia map styles, infrastructure, and other map-related tasks. My background is as an OpenStreetMap developer, and I am a maintainer of the OpenStreetMap Carto style, the default on osm.org, as well as many other components in a standard OSM map rendering setup.

As part of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T153282 a new style for Wikimedia maps is being developed, and I've loaded the whole planet on one of my servers as a test and demo.

The demo is available at http://legolas.paulnorman.ca:6789/, and through "Compare" on the right-hand side of the interface you can compare it with the current Wikimedia style, OpenStreetMap Carto, and lots of others. Some other things to be aware of when comparing are:

  • The map is displayed with Kosmtik, a design tool with minimal caching, and it might be restarted while I'm working on it
  • Even though the server is faster than production, it may appear slower because it doesn't have everything cached
  • The OSM data on the server is normally within a day of the latest data

Some of the more noticeable style changes are

  • Road colours are different, helping view the overall layout of the city
  • There are fewer cases of subtly different shades of green.
  • Bridges and multi-level road constructions are now handled properly, which should make some areas easier to figure out

I am particularly interested in feedback on

  • the overall colour darkness and intensity,

Feedback is welcome, either through email, phab tickets, or by IRC in #wikimedia-interactive on freenode. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by pnorman (talk)

Just so others realize: Special:EmailUser/Pnorman. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:33, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Ah yes, this was based on the maps-l@ email, where email is obvious. I'll also be watching this. Pnorman (talk) 21:42, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I have just had a quick look at the new map for Gateshead and for Edinburgh Old Town, and this is a good step forward. In these multilevel city centres the bridges are shown much better, but stairs between the levels are not clear (e.g. at lat=55.95116 | long=-3.18852). I do still prefer the Mapnik layer, mainly because a lot of things of interest are labelled - museums, hotels, building numbers in some streets etc. AlasdairW (talk) 22:26, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@AlasdairW: voy:en:Gateshead doesn't have a map. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:48, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
It has a full page map if you click on the map icon at the right above the banner photo, which I used to compare with the demo. (I will add a mapframe to the article.) AlasdairW (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@AlasdairW: Brilliant. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)TCM 23:00, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

[edit]

Dear Colleagues,

Wiki Loves Earth 2017, the photo competition aimed at collecting photos of protected natural areas, has started today. We seek to collect photos that can be used on Wikivoyage and also organize a satellite competition dedicated to page banners. We have held such a competition already last year and received 88 beautiful page banners for Russia, many of them currently used on Wikivoyage.

The submission rules are described here. In short, only banners which are made of your own regular submissions to WLE 2017 are eligible, and they must be uploaded via a special link. If you fancy page banner for a Russian destination, use a different upload link, because we will award a separate prize. The competition runs till the end of May.

All banners submitted for this competition will be evaluated by our jury. We will consider both artistic value of individual banners and their merit for Wikivoyage, namely whether the banner is used or can be used in Wikivoyage articles, how well it conveys the feel of the destination, etc. We will have two small prizes, one for banners of Russian destinations and one for banners from abroad.

If you don't fancy uploading page banners but feel interested in our initiative, you can join our jury and help us in grading the banners. Just leave us a note here or contact us in person, and we will get back to you.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:35, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Uruguay[edit]

Para variar, I aded information on Uruguay, please review it. Can I use my wikipedia Account here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.57.67.209 (talk)

@167.57.67.209: Yes, you can. Which language of Wikivoyage did you edit? —Justin (koavf)TCM 03:45, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I guess s/he edited the English version, although that help is also needed in Spanish (language which is spoken in Uruguay) Wikivoyage's article due to be undeveloped there. Anonymous editor, can you please add that information in the Spanish version too? --Zerabat (discusión) 19:31, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Lint errors[edit]

In the last few days I've working to solve some errors listed in the "it:voy lint errors special page" that will turn into layout issues once the server software migration will occur (i.e. 2018).

I suggest that all the maintainers of every language version would do the same. Here the links:

--Andyrom75 (talk) 08:03, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I will look into this, in regard to voy:sv during the next days. Dan Koehl (talk) 15:53, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:16, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
If you run into problems, then you can ping me. I don't know how to fix most of them myself, but I do know several people who have been working on them. You can also leave a message at w:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Check Wikipedia to find some of them.
By the way, if your wiki has a large number of errors, then start by fixing as many errors in templates as you can. I'm told that fixing just one template solved thousands of these errors at one of the Wikipedias. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I propose to check highly-used templates first to reduce the numbers of lint errors. Unfortunately, there is a bug checking module pages for lint errors although they use a different content model. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:06, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
In case of "Obsolete HTML tags" we should ask for a bot. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:11, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I confirm that the "template approach" helps a lot, I've removed thousands of issues just with them. I've noticed that also our "base listing template" generate a "span" issue (that generate thousands of low priorities occurrences) but I'm not still able to solve it. --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:20, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
If you can, please tell me where I can find more information to fix these errors. --Zerabat (discusión) 20:17, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Generic information about the issues can be found here. In most cases, to fix them is enough to know well both HTML and wiki-syntax rules. --Andyrom75 (talk) 06:41, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
On en:voy I've solved around 200K issue working only Template:Listing‎. See comments in history and in talk page. It would be useful for other language versions. --Andyrom75 (talk) 00:38, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
With only two templates, font color and de:Vorlage:Center|center, we could remove most of our obsolete tag failures. The usage of regular expressions with a JavaScript was really helpful to replace these tags by the templates. --RolandUnger (talk) 18:16, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
RolandUnger in de:voy you already had voy:de:Vorlage:Color. In it:voy I used voy:it:Template:ColoreTesto and accoding to Wikidata link the de:voy template should be equivalent. Why you have created a new one?
By the way, watch out on replacing straight that template because there are some cases where you need to apply a different rule, let me give you two example:
  1. FONT can be applied to an anchor (i.e. A) while SPAN must be applied to the label. This is valid for both external and internal link
  2. CENTER can be applied to an IMAGE (or also a more complex content) while DIV should be treated in a slight different way to obtain same effect (in most cases I have used style="margin:auto;" in an inner DIV).
--Andyrom75 (talk) 20:35, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Most wikis including meta use both font color and color. It makes maybe sense to use one of them as a redirect to the other. Both templates were imported from the English Wikipedia. From our experience, about 95% of all <font> tags were used to set colors, the other ones to format headers (instead of h3 or h4). Nobody used the font tag for anchors. We could replace them all.

Our center template uses both margin (0 auto) and text-align (center) styles which is suitable for all cases. There is a set of templates and other tools to do the same: to center. Images (center parameter), galleries (class="center") and maps have built-in center opportunities. Style-sheet declarations are useful means for instance in case of tables, too. There were no cases where we could not found a substitute. --RolandUnger (talk) 04:44, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

RolandUnger, although is not strictly related to lint errors, I take the chance to ask you a question. In the past if I applied align="center" to galleries works correctly but recently don't. As far as you know, is a current bug or is correct that it doesn't work? I haven't found anything on MW documentation. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:49, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
In galleries class="center" is working; align="center" seems not to be supported. Stylesheets can be used to format the captions. You cannot combine perrow="n" and class="center"; perrow is stronger. --RolandUnger (talk) 09:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Maybe align will be/is removed for all elements like the intended removal of font, center, etc. --RolandUnger (talk) 09:24, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I've replaced both the align="center" and the "center tag" that surround a gallery with class="center". Now everything works perfectly. --Andyrom75 (talk) 10:56, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
At Wikivoyage/de we solved most of the lint errors. The remaining errors are false positives or were produced by one (unused) template. --RolandUnger (talk) 04:37, 3 August 2017 (UTC)