IRC office hours/Office hours 2012-07-21
[02:05] <Ironholds> people here for office hours, hands up pleaswe
[02:05] <Ironholds> *please
[02:05] <Ironholds> it will make it easier for the marksmen to identify you
[02:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Ironholds
[02:06] * Seddon raises hands (and throws brick)
[02:06] * Fluffernutter ducks
[02:06] * sonia (~rueful@wikipedia/sonia) has joined #wikimedia-office
[02:07] <foks> o/
[02:07] <@Ironholds> foks: sonia successfully pestered. Operation Kiwi is a success. you may commence the carpet-bombing. or something.
[02:07] * sonia blinks.
[02:07] <@Ironholds> right. y'all are familiar with the tool?
[02:07] <sonia> and hi :P
[02:07] <foks> Wait, what
[02:07] <sonia> yup
[02:07] <Seddon> nope
[02:07] <foks> Yes.
[02:07] <@Ironholds> Seddon: nope? thank god you don't work for us.
[02:07] <Seddon> Ironholds: not till monday :P
[02:07] <@Ironholds> indeed
[02:07] <foks> oh god
[02:07] <@Ironholds> alright, for those not in the know - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5
[02:08] <@Ironholds> this is the Article Feedback Tool. That little comments box you occasionally see at the bottom of articles? That's this.
[02:08] <Seddon> oooo pretty
[02:08] <@Ironholds> all the comments are fed into the feedback page, both as a centralised, stand-alone thing taking all the comments for all the articles, and individual pages for each article
[02:08] <@Ironholds> which are in the format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/articlename.
[02:08] <@Ironholds> there's also a link on the talkpage by the page title - see Talk:Battle of Romani for an example
[02:09] <@Ironholds> as an aside; I always feel bad, because I've started using that as my standard example. Because I remember it the best. Because the author kept kicking me to remove the tool because xe hates it.
[02:09] <sonia> heh.
[02:09] <Seddon> *raises hand* I have an issue
[02:09] <@Ironholds> and so as a result of her hating it I constantly drive people towards her article's specific page. In good faith.
[02:09] <@Ironholds> Seddon: sure!
[02:10] <Seddon> Is it possible to get redirects to show the feedback for the target page
[02:10] <Fluffernutter> Ironholds: which reminds me, i still don't get the feedback link from talk pages. Assuming it's because omgbrowser or omggadgets or some shit?
[02:10] <@Ironholds> uh. So, Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/redirect shows you the feedback for Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/target ?
[02:10] <@Ironholds> Fluffernutter: I assume so :S
[02:10] <Seddon> Ironholds: currently it doesn't seem to
[02:10] <Fluffernutter> you have all my specs short of the exact contents of my hard drive already, so I'll leave the bug hunting to you expert types
[02:11] <Seddon> unless there isn't a redirect
[02:11] <Seddon> *checks*
[02:11] * sonia searches Fluffernutter 's hard drive
[02:11] <Fluffernutter> oh dear
[02:11] <@Ironholds> Seddon, do redirects actually exist in software terms?
[02:11] * Fluffernutter hides computer from sonia
[02:11] <@Ironholds> Fluffernutter: "us experts"? Who has two thumbs and isn't the person in the conversation who works for IBM?
[02:11] <@Ironholds> <---this guy.
[02:12] <Seddon> Ironholds: I am not entirely sure how MW parses the markup to a html redirect but in my head it should be a fairly simple thing to do
[02:13] <Fluffernutter> there see, let's make Seddon do the work
[02:14] <@Ironholds> Seddon: yeah, you'd stick a hook in
[02:14] <@Ironholds> as it happens we already have said hook for NPT
[02:14] <@Ironholds> so the software does now actually distinguish between articles and redirects easily
[02:14] <@Ironholds> want me to add it to "list of stuff for the people who know what they're talking about to consider"?
[02:15] <Seddon> Ironholds: yes :) it seems like a logical function for it to preform
[02:16] <@Ironholds> *perform
[02:16] <@Ironholds> alright, added; don't be suprised if they say "too hard", though; p
[02:16] <Seddon> Ill just shout louder :)
[02:17] <@Ironholds> heh
[02:17] <@Ironholds> any other questions/queries/complaints/suggestions from people?
[02:18] <sonia> I've actually been surprised at how much constructive feedback there is
[02:18] <@Ironholds> indeed!
[02:18] <sonia> I was all "oh god it's going to be filled with spam and nothing but spam"
[02:18] <sonia> but it's... not
[02:18] <@Ironholds> depending on the metric we use it's either 40 or 60 percent
[02:18] <sonia> even if some is utterly incomprehensible
[02:18] <@Ironholds> want to know the reallly disturbing thing?
[02:18] <Seddon> Another thing, given that in all liklihood people will be wanting to help those that didn't find what they were looking for, there should be some way of showing all posts where people didnt find what they were looking for etc
[02:19] <@Ironholds> that 40-60 percent is without the abuse filter
[02:19] <sonia> huh.
[02:19] <@Ironholds> Seddon: go look at "sort by"
[02:19] <@Ironholds> then hush yourself ;p
[02:19] <@Ironholds> sonia: and without the spam blacklist
[02:19] <sonia> really?
[02:19] <@Ironholds> oh, wait, it doesn't include that! I misread
[02:19] <@Ironholds> Seddon, you are for once right.
[02:19] <@Ironholds> sonia: yup!
[02:19] <Seddon> Ironholds: only options I see are "relevant/irrelevant" and "newest/oldest"
[02:19] <Seddon> so fuck you :p
[02:20] <@Ironholds> Seddon: this is logged, y'know ;p
[02:20] <Seddon> ooops
[02:20] <Seddon> so go sit on your laurels!
[02:20] <Seddon> :P
[02:20] <Seddon> hmmmm
[02:20] <Seddon> what else
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[02:21] <Seddon> It would be good to actually be able to see comments ranking
[02:21] * gwicke_away (~email@example.com) has joined #wikimedia-office
[02:21] <Seddon> like on youtube for example
[02:22] <@Ironholds> Seddon: what do you mean?
[02:22] <@Ironholds> like, sort by the number of thumbs up?
[02:22] <Seddon> yer
[02:22] <@Ironholds> see. if you look under "sort by", do you not see helpful/unhelpful, logged in?
[02:24] <Seddon> ohhhh ok, I actually think that info should be pubically available,
[02:24] <sonia> publicly I hope!
[02:25] <@Ironholds> it's not if you're not logged in? huh.
[02:25] <@Ironholds> Alright, I'll talk to some people.
[02:25] <Seddon> nope, thanks Ironholds :)
[02:25] * LLogan (~firstname.lastname@example.org) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
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[02:26] <Seddon> what does "featured" mean?
[02:26] <@Ironholds> it bumps it substantially up in prominence and basically translates to "I don't know enough about the area to make the proposed change/inclusion/exclusion, but someone who does should take a look at it"
[02:27] <sonia> 'means people think it's eminently useful, I imagine
[02:29] <Seddon> I do wonder how sensible it is to have the ip addresses publically shown
[02:30] <Seddon> if people accidently (stupidly) put identifying information there
[02:30] <Seddon> I cant suggest a better alternative
[02:31] <@Ironholds> Seddon: that's what oversight is for. And yeah, it's an awkward one
[02:31] <@Ironholds> but we're primarily a transparent organisation
[02:31] <foks> Yeah, it can be oversighted
[02:31] <Seddon> thats ok then
[02:32] <foks> You can request OS through the tool (I think) and it's posted to OTRS for us
[02:32] <foks> Which is NIFTY.
[02:32] <Seddon> other than everything I have so far mentioned, I am really happy with it :)
[02:32] <sonia> I think my primary concerns are around formulating specific guidelines re when to hide etc.
[02:32] <@Ironholds> sonia: yeah, some people are actually doing that already :)
[02:33] <@Ironholds> seriously, 30 seconds after the notice went up people started making em
[02:33] * @Ironholds goes to find
[02:33] <@Ironholds> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_Feedback/Guidelines
[02:33] <sonia> yay!
[02:33] <Seddon> thats coool
[02:36] <@Ironholds> damn skippy
[02:37] <Seddon> *should come to these more often and be useful* :)
[02:37] <IShadowed> being useful is tricky and hard
[02:37] <@Ironholds> particularly for Seddon
[02:37] <Seddon> I have made a whole 3 useful suggestions :)
[02:38] <Seddon> that is impressive for me :)
[02:39] <@Ironholds> indeed!
[02:39] * IShadowed yawns
[02:39] <IShadowed> "What is the article feedback tool?!"
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[02:41] * tommorris (~tommorris@wikimedia/Tom-Morris) has joined #wikimedia-office
[02:42] <@Ironholds> IShadowed: asking, trolling or is that somewhere on the wiki?
[02:42] <IShadowed> a little bit of asking and trolling
[02:42] <@Ironholds> read Wikipedia:Article feedback and all will be revealed
[02:42] <IShadowed> too difficult
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[02:42] <sonia> heh
[02:42] <IShadowed> I will live in ignorance
[02:43] <@Ironholds> fails WP:COMPETENCE! *bans*
[02:46] <@Ironholds> alright, it seems things are drawing to a close - final questions before I fall over? ;p
[02:49] * foks is now known as foks|vaek
[02:49] <@Ironholds> none? okey-dokes! thanks to all for attending; I'm going to sleep now :)
Session Close: Sat Jul 21 02:49:22 2012