IRC office hours/Office hours 2012-07-25

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Philippe: Good morning everyone…. Garfield will be along presently, but there will be a short delay… just a minute or two, I hope. 
09:00am- WiseWoman: No problem!
09:00am- Seddon: Could be worse, could be my wifi
09:00am- Jon__: No problem -
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09:00am- Ziko: hello
09:00am- aude: hi abartov_
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09:01am- abartov_ is now known as abartov.
09:01am- abartov: hi, aude! 
09:01am- Danny_B|backup: shalom
09:01am- Philippe: Morning Meera, Asaf
09:01am- Fluffernutter: the best office hours are the ones where i can't even understand the description of the topic, let alone the topic itself
09:01am- MeeraChary_TBG: Good morning, all!
09:01am- Philippe: Fluffernutter: Excellent.  My work here is done then.
09:01am- KTC: heh
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09:02am- Philippe: Good morning, Barry
09:02am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: btw, we have 6pm here (although for me today it's morning-ish ;-))
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09:02am- Philippe: Thanks, Danny 
09:02am- bnewstead: Hi everyone.
09:02am- Ironholds: Fluffernutter: as I understand it it's about how to fund the effort to spread out committees.
09:02am- Jon__: Hi Barry
09:03am- Ironholds: or, in other words, how to fund the dissemination of committees. It's got mostly the same words so it must be true.
09:03am- Philippe: Ironholds: No, that's the funds fattenation committee 
09:03am- • Fluffernutter nods veguely
09:03am- Philippe: Barry, would you like to say a couple of words to kick us off, since Garfield is still making his way in?
09:03am- bnewstead: Why don't I kick off the discussion and then Garfield and Anasuya will probably drive the discussion.
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09:03am- bnewstead: Good idea, Philippe 
09:03am- TomerA: GMTA
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09:04am- Philippe: Let's try not to do that too often, Barry
09:04am- Danny_B|backup: hello, mr. breakdancer
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09:04am- aude: Garfield! 
09:04am- You were promoted to operator by ChanServ.
09:04am- bnewstead: This IRC is focused on the work of the Funds Dissemination Committee process which the WMF Board just initiated formally.
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09:04am- bnewstead was granted voice by you.
09:04am- Garfield was granted voice by you.
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09:05am- bnewstead: The FDC design is the product of work conducted over the past year starting with discussions about Fundraising and Fund Dissemination.
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09:06am- bnewstead: Starting in April, we have been working on the FDC design with an Advisory Group and engaged participation of community members on Meta.
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09:06am- bnewstead: Our goal for this call is to clarify questions and the FDC process as we will quickly be moving into the first round of the process starting on 1 Aug.
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09:07am- Danny_B|backup: good morning/evening, ladies
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09:07am- JeanKevin: hello
09:07am- JeanKevin: euh
09:07am- bnewstead: I think that is enough context. For those who want more background, there are volumes of information on Meta here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee
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09:08am- Philippe: OK, Barry, how should we proceed then?  You mentioned clarifying questions and process.  Do you have a feeling for the best way to do that?
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09:09am- WiseWoman: bnewstead: volumes are too much to read  When is the deadline for the first round, August 1? Or is that the kickoff?
09:09am- Jon__: I have two questions - one whether the current form fits the fundraising four - seems one way, and second about the political activities cluse which may work for the U S but not for the U K
09:09am- Anthere: I already put my main question on foundation-l to save writing time here
09:09am- Philippe: OK, so I see three questions on the table…. WW, and then Jon, plus Anthere on the wiki
09:09am- bnewstead: Why don't we open the floor for questions and comments. Note: the main topic of interest for today is eligibility of entities, but we'll take broader Qs as well. We'll track the questions and do our best to answer as many as we have time for. We'll also put answers on Meta.
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09:10am- Danny_B|backup: bnewstead: to clarify: eligibility to receive funds or eligibility to participate in fdc?
09:10am- Philippe: So then, the first would be Wisewoman… just asking abou tthe deadline and whether that's the 8/1 date?
09:10am- WiseWoman: Yes - deadline and of course who is eligible to apply.
09:11am- WiseWoman: Is there a form for the application and is there a cap on how much one can apply for?
09:11am- abartov: Danny_B: to apply for and receive funds through the FDC process
09:11am- Danny_B|backup: thx
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09:11am- Anasuya: Hi everyone, this is my first WM IRC! The deadline for proposals to the FDC is October 1, though we'd like to encourage everyone who's interested to start the process well before, so we can help as much as we can. The FDC proposal forms will be available from August 1, so that's when the kickoff is
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09:12am- Philippe: Anasuya is our new Director of Learning and Global Grantmaking, for those who don't know.  (Did I get that right?)
09:12am- bnewstead: FYI: We have Garfield Byrd, Anasuya Sengupta and Asaf Bartov here. They will tackle the questions.
09:12am- Garfield: Jon the current form does fit both the payment processing chapters and FDC grant applicants.  There will need to be some small change in language in the agreement.
09:12am- abartov: Philippe: Global Learning and Grantmaking. 
09:12am- Anthere: hiya Anasuya
09:12am- Anasuya: Yes, you did, Philippe. And yes, it's a mouthful 
09:12am- abartov: (not that grantmaking ain't global...)
09:12am- Philippe: d'oh!  So close.
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09:13am- Philippe: OK, Anthere had a question which she sent to FOundation-l
09:13am- Anthere: salut seb
09:13am- Jon__: Not sure it does - speaks of the money coming one way from the FDC which is tricky as we are meant to be independent. Legal thoughts?
09:13am- Philippe: and I was going to grab it but you went so fast that I need a sec 
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09:13am- Seb35: hei
09:13am- Bence: I would really appreciate a 2-page summary of the process for those who would consider applying to the FDC. It seems there are hundreds of pages, and the important info is hidden under the unnecessary internal details... Maybe something like the intro of this page, without the rest: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board ?
09:14am- Philippe: Anthere's question is about the translation of financial reports
09:14am- Anthere: +1 Bence
09:14am- Philippe: Is a short form, essentially, acceptable, or must they translate their full financial report?
09:14am- Anthere: and is short form, is there a template yet, or not
09:14am- Anthere: if short form
09:14am- Philippe: Thanks, Anthere. 
09:14am- Danny_B|backup: Bence: [[User:Philippe (WMF)|Philippe (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Philippe (WMF)|talk]]) 17:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
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09:15am- Jon__: lotsof 'requesteds' can we get round this with 'agreeds' instead?
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09:16am- Danny_B|backup: hare rocker!
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09:16am- Anasuya: Bence, it's a good idea  - we'll get that ready. We're also working on a FDC portal, which should also be ready to go August 1. That should make it all much easier.
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09:16am- Anthere: incidently, I kind of "waou" to the fact Wikimedia Philippines was already all set. How can it be ???
09:16am- bnewstead: Jon__: that is exactly the kind of wording adjustments that will fix the problem you raise.
09:17am- lyzzy: try to make it inviting, no eligible entity should hesitate to make an application
09:17am- Jon__: Sortes - blessed are the peacemakers!
09:17am- WiseWoman: I'm a bit confused since on Meta there is talk of a June 1 deadline. And the elegability is defined as: "Your organization must be recognized as an affiliate organization as defined in the Board of Trustees resolution dated March 31, 2012 (“Resolution”). but there is no link there. So who is eligible to apply for funding?
09:17am- lyzzy: (sry, that was a reply to Anasuya)
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09:18am- abartov: Anthere: It can be because the eligibility requirements are fairly reasonable, and they have been diligent in submitting their reports on time.   In fairness, they are native English speakers.
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09:18am- Philippe: OK, I believe the questions that are active are Anthere and WiseWoman
09:18am- • abartov is considering a grant to help mpeel get a stable net connection. 
09:18am- Anthere: unfair 
09:18am- mpeel: abartov: sorry, I'm at a radio observatory in the middle of a desert!
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09:19am- Anasuya: WiseWoman: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/2012_Round_1_Eligibility_Status
09:19am- Jon__: Plus the US political declaration
09:19am- Philippe: Anthere's asking about translation and how much of their report needs to be translated (and is there a short form?); WiseWoman is still unclear about eligibility requirements.
09:19am- TomerA: Perhaps I somehow missed it (I did not use IRC for ages) but I didn't see an answer to Anthere
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09:19am- seav-WMPH: Question: if an entity is eligible, is it permanent or is it subject to renewal of some sort?
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09:20am- Danny_B|backup: mpeel_: turn off the radio?
09:20am- Anthere: TomerA, still waiting as well 
09:20am- bnewstead: Garfield is writing a response to Anthere now.
09:20am- WiseWoman: Yes, I was interested in "Category 2: restricted grants for individuals and entities;" - are only chapters meant by the term "entities"?
09:20am- Anthere: but that's a one requiring details
09:20am- mpeel_: (sorry, will have to give up with this internet connection - look forward to reading the transcript afterwards…)
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09:20am- Jon__: masochist
09:21am- Nemo_bis: WiseWoman: no
09:21am- Philippe: OK, I'm assuming that Anasuya is still handling WiseWoman's question....
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09:21am- Philippe: and Barry is working on Anthere
09:21am- Garfield: Anthere:  For the FDC process, a short form summary financial report is all that will be needed translated into English.  This will not be the same reporting requirement for payment processing chapters, which is for audited financial statements.
09:21am- Philippe: Which leaves Seav-WMPH
09:21am- bnewstead: Jon__: The political activities issue is not applicable in the case of payment processing as the funds aren't originating in the US.
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09:22am- • Anthere is looking for deadlines....
09:22am- Anthere: do you wish to provide us a template form Garfield or are we pushing this back for next year ?
09:22am- Philippe: And Seav  wanted to know "if an entity is eligible, is it permanent or is it subject to renewal of some sort?"
09:22am- abartov: WiseWoman: the Wikimedia Grants program- is open to absolutely everyone: individuals, informal groups, chapters, other organizations.  (cont'd)
09:23am- Anasuya: Seav: eligibility is subject to renewal every year.
09:23am- abartov: WiseWoman: so completion of two grants, or one grant and one payment-processing year, or two payment-processing years is one criterion for eligibility.
09:24am- seav-WMPH: Thanks. At least we've passed the initial hurdle. 
09:24am- Philippe: OK, the questions queue is clear.  Are there others?
09:24am- Garfield: Anthere: The deadline is October 1 and if needed we can provide a template for applicants to use.
09:24am- Philippe: Or shall we ask Asaf to entertain us?
09:24am- WiseWoman: abartov, that's not the impression I get from reading http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/2012_Round_1_Eligibility_Status, which seems to be just chapter-oriented. Does this mean that only entities who have had money in the past are eligible for money in the future? How does one get their first grant, then? 
09:24am- Anthere: I think either a template or a sample would be nice
09:25am- Anthere: a sample = an fake example
09:25am- Garfield: Anthere: We can have a sample template available by the end of the month.
09:25am- Danny_B|backup: re completion of two grants - was it considered that grants are of different size and period? it is obviously much easier and faster to complete two one-purpose grants than two long-term grants
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09:25am- Anthere: ok
09:25am- • alhen gives WiseWoman a +1
09:25am- lyzzy: WiseWoman: they get their first grant from the GAC
09:26am- WiseWoman: GAC=?
09:26am- KTC: grant advisory committee
09:26am- Philippe: Ah, so that would be interesting to clarify on that page, perhaps…. The two types of grants and how / when one goes to each?
09:26am- WiseWoman: Link?
09:26am- abartov: lyzzy, WiseWoman, they get their first (and second) grant from the Wikimedia Grants program, which is advised by the GAC.
09:26am- Anasuya: WiseWoman: the difference between the FDC process and the Wikimedia Grants Program- is that the first is for eligible entities (right now it may be only chapters, but that does not preclude other entities in the future),  in order to support their annual plans and full time staff positions. (con'td)
09:26am- lyzzy: and it's not only chapters but also the "new" groups like thematic organizations that can apply
09:26am- KTC:        http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grant_Advisory_Committee    
09:26am- bnewstead: Anthere: it is probably easiest to do a google translate of your existing financial statements and do a quick check for bad translations. I wouldn't suggest changing the format, as that might require accounting time.  I've used Google Translate to read your statements before and it works pretty well.
09:26am- abartov: FDC funds are not grants, and we have been careful to avoid mixing the language.
09:26am- abartov: I understand the confusion, though.
09:27am- Anasuya: WiseWoman: The Wikimedia Grants Program- is for project funding and can include part time staff for those projects - contact Asaf for more details!
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09:27am- Anthere: could you add some more date to the timetable ?
09:28am- Anthere: bnewstead it did ? I would not have expected it to be good. But okay, we'll try that
09:29am- Anthere: deadline to provide the financial reports is october 1
09:29am- Danny_B|backup: Anasuya: can it? last time i heard that the support for stuff is no longer considered
09:29am- Philippe: So, outstanding question from Danny_B|backup: re completion of two grants - was it considered that grants are of different size and period? it is obviously much easier and faster to complete two one-purpose grants than two long-term grants
09:29am- Anthere: and what is deadline for the FDC request ?
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09:30am- TomerA: Anthere, bnewstead, you can't be sure that they were good. It could be that you got wrong information 
09:30am- Anasuya: Danny_B: you're right, but we haven't made a distinction between the different kinds of grants, so we could be more inclusive at this stage.
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09:31am- Anthere: hmmm, true. But there are some French speaking people at the WMF who can say so (unless they have no clue about accounting of course)
09:31am- bnewstead: TomerA: that is certainly possible. My main point is to take the easiest road for this round.
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09:31am- abartov: Danny_B: full-time staff is not available via Wikimedia Grants.  Part-time work to support a specific project may be considered, if reasonable policies are in place.
09:32am- Philippe: Outstanding question from Anthere:  Anthere: and what is deadline for the FDC request ?
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09:32am- Anthere: a timetable for all annual steps would be great
09:33am- seav-WMPH: So the FDC will not replace the GAC? All along I thought that disbursement of movement funds (except for WMF core ops) will only be through the FDC
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09:33am- abartov: Anthere: pasting from http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board --
09:34am- • aude thinks FDC only for $50,000 +
09:34am- abartov: Funds Process Timeline
09:34am- abartov: Step 1: Applicant submits letter of intent indicating that they want to request funding: 1 June (Round 1) and 1 November (Round 2)
09:34am- abartov: Step 2: WMF staff determine whether entities are eligible based on established criteria: 15 July (Round 1) and 15 December (Round 2)
09:34am- abartov: Step 3: Eligible entities submit an application to the FDC by 1 October (Round 1) and 1 March (Round 2)
09:34am- abartov: Step 4: FDC staff develop an objective evaluation of application's potential for impact: October (Round 1) and March (Round 2)
09:34am- abartov: Step 5: FDC sends final recommendation to the Board: 15 November (Round 1) and 15 April (Round 2)
09:34am- abartov: Step 6: Board makes final decision on funds dissemination: 15 December (Round 1) and 15 May (Round 2)
09:34am- abartov: Step 7: Funds recipients sign grant agreement
09:34am- abartov: Step 8: WMF releases funds: Within 30 days of receiving a signed grant agreement
09:34am- abartov: seav-WMPH: no, the Grants program- lives on 
09:34am- WiseWoman: So Round 1 is already over?
09:34am- aude: what, we missed round 1?
09:34am- Philippe: …and was just expanded with new committee members, abartov, no?
09:35am- Danny_B|backup: yes it was
09:35am- Anthere: Step7: grant agreement ?
09:35am- Philippe: aude, I believe the date was backed up.  That should be updated.
09:35am- abartov: WiseWoman: that is the general framework.  Specifically for this year, we've assumed everybody's interested 
09:35am- • aude and wikimedia dc is desparate for staff help
09:35am- Anasuya: Summary DEADLINES: All eligibility gaps must be met by October 1, in consultation with Garfield. The FDC Proposal must be submitted by October 1 (the form will be available August 1). Once the portal is live (August 1), all info will be available on it.
09:35am- abartov: So no need for letters of intent. 
09:35am- aude: Philippe: good
09:35am- Pharos: good 
09:35am- Philippe: There ya go.
09:35am- abartov: Philippe: yes, the GAC is now 30 member strong and raring to go.  Bring me your grant proposals!
09:35am- Anthere: so, making a FDC request still requires to sign a grant agreement ?
09:36am- abartov: Anthere: yes, let me clarify my earlier statement:
09:36am- bnewstead: seav-WMPH: The FDC will not replace the Wikimedia Grants Program- (and other grant programs of other entities). The FDC is only designed to work with relatively mature Wikimedia entities who are ready to manage general operating resources. There are many other groups who need a program- to support their activities...that is the role of the Wikimedia Grants program.
09:36am- abartov: Anthere: while FDC funds are technically grants (at least for the non-payment-processing chapters), we have been careful to avoid the term grants _on the wiki pages_, to reduce confusion.
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09:37am- abartov: ...Precisely to avoid the impression that this somehow replaces the existing Grants program.
09:37am- Anthere: hmmm, ok
09:38am- Anthere: So... practically, that means that whilst we have the board approve the program, it should also approve the grant agreement and approve the grant request
09:39am- Anthere: I hope that the grant agreement has been reworked so as not to include these weird obligations that would be illegal to abid for in most countries ?
09:39am- Jon__: I have to go and make the Olympics work. Can we have an answer about the Political activities disclaimer by email. Basically we are expected to be consulted by government on legislation which seesm at odds with thi.
09:39am- Jon__: Habe anice day
09:39am- Danny_B|backup: once the entity is eligible, can it become ineligible again because of (...?...) ?
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09:39am- seav-WMPH: That's weird, the following sentence in the March 2012 WMF Board Resolution states: "All funds raised via the Wikimedia project sites will be distributed via the recommendations of the FDC, with the exception of Wikimedia Foundation core operating costs and the operating reserve as described above."
09:39am- TomerA_IL: Danny_B|backup, because of not sending annual reports for example.
09:40am- Anthere: (and can you have a wiki page with the copy paste of the timeline so that we can find it again later ?)
09:40am- seav-WMPH: That seems to leave out the GAC program
09:40am- Anasuya: Jon: yes, we'll do that. As Barry said, we're also changing the proposal form to reflect this. And go make the Olympics work - enjoy!
09:40am- Garfield: Anthere: Please clarify your question.
09:40am- abartov: Danny_B: because of failing to provide timely reports, or the unlikely actual misconduct.
09:40am- Danny_B|backup: let me rephrase - for how long is the entity eligible
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09:40am- • Anthere is trying to find the grant agreement....
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09:40am- abartov: Anthere, I announced where I was pasting from...  Here it is again: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board
09:40am- Pancetta: oof! internet!
09:40am- Pancetta: 12:36:55 <harej> I understand that the FDC and the GAC will exist in tandem. Say I have a borderline case—an application for $40,000 of funding for something. It's within the scope of the GAC still, but I could just as easily add $10K to the pricetag and make it an FDC concern. Is the FDC simply the same process as GAC but with a higher level of scrutiny, or does the FDC exist for more general organizational funding while the GAC is
09:40am- Pancetta: specific projects?
09:40am- Pancetta: 12:38:04 <harej> (abartov could tell you that my organization has filed an application that was well beyond even the $50K threshold, and it was understandably shot down.)
09:41am- Philippe: Right, I think she's asking for a page with just that deadline section, abartov
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09:41am- WiseWoman: abartov, most of these pages are addressed at people who are members of the decision group. We are people considering applying.
09:41am- Bence: abartov: that page is well hidden among a mess of links on meta:FDC and in a page entitled "draft". Just because it is on Meta somwehere, doesn't make it findable. And sometimes, one can have too much information in one place...
09:41am- WiseWoman: It would be useful to have a timeline, an example application, an example report, etc.
09:42am- abartov: WiseWoman: indeed!  We are building an FDC portal -- take a peek here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal
09:42am- bnewstead: Pancetta: There is no financial threshold of $50K. FDC vs. Grants is based on the eligibility of the entity or the planned usage of funds (e.g., funds for a specific project vs. general operating funds).
09:42am- abartov: WiseWoman: that would be aimed first and foremost at applicants.
09:42am- Bence: abartov: that page looks much better 
09:42am- aude: bnewstead: good to know
09:42am- Beria_: quoting again
09:42am- Beria_: "That's weird, the following sentence in the March 2012 WMF Board Resolution states: "All funds raised via the Wikimedia project sites will be distributed via the recommendations of the FDC, with the exception of Wikimedia Foundation core operating costs and the operating reserve as described above.""
09:42am- Philippe: OK, so I think that covers the questions, with the exception of the one that Anthere is going to clarify
09:42am- • aude was confused
09:42am- abartov: Bence: it's not really entitled draft anymore, and hasn't been for weeks.  This is just a redirect that still gets quoted...
09:42am- Anthere: ok, so I did it: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Timeline
09:42am- Philippe: ooh, thanks, Beria
09:43am- Beria_ is now known as Beria.
09:43am- Philippe: i missed that one
09:43am- Danny_B|backup: the threshold is rather orientational as far as i understood, harej
09:43am- Anthere: can someone help me find a default grant agreement ?
09:43am- abartov: Anthere: thanks!
09:43am- Beria: An there, internal wiki
09:43am- Anasuya: Seav: The approval process is this - the Board approves all funds to the FDC; WMF in turn applies to the FDC, and this proposal includes the Wikimedia Grants Program.
09:44am- harej: bnewstead: So, the appropriate venue is not governed by dollar amount but by use/eligibility. Could an organization conceivably use both? Is one better than another?
09:44am- bnewstead: Beria: The Wikimedia Grants Program- will be approved by the FDC in the WMF submission, so it is consistent with the board resolution.
09:44am- Beria: it WILL?
09:44am- anirudh: heh
09:45am- Beria: how do you k now that if the FDC doesn t exist
09:45am- Anthere: Philippe, can you help with finding the grant agreement template ?
09:45am- Philippe: Anthere, I'm looking, but I don't spend much time on those pages.
09:45am- abartov: Beria: and analogously, other entities can use their FDC allocation to run their own micro-grants programs.
09:46am- seav-WMPH: thanks for the clarification
09:46am- Beria: Anthere, http://mitglieder.wikimedia.at/images/c/c3/2011-08-19_Chapter_Grant_Agreement_%28Draft%29.pdf
09:46am- Philippe: Ah, thanks, Beria
09:46am- Garfield: Anthere:  The grant agreement for the FDC process is not completed yet.
09:47am- Danny_B|backup: abartov: so no longer gac for having funds for local grants like we do, do i understand correctly?
09:47am- kkay: Anthere, we will be working on new and improved grant templates for this year and the fundraising Chapters will have letter agreements with the foundation.
09:47am- abartov: Danny_B: no, you can still include a grants program- in your regular Wikimedia Grants application.
09:47am- Anthere: Garfield, do you plan for it to defer significantly from last year' ?
09:47am- harej: Wikimedia DC created a grants program- a few days ago. 
09:47am- seav-WMPH: Based on the process, the WMF Board approves all the recommendations of the FDC. Is there a conceivable case where WMF submits a proposal to the FDC and if the FDC rejects it, the WMF Board will veto it anyway?
09:47am- bnewstead: harej: Correct. An organization could draw on both, though it isn't really preferable as the Grants Program- will have limited funds and it aims to work with more diverse groups.
09:48am- Beria: abartov, it can't because grants arent covered for the FDC 
09:48am- TomerA_IL: I'm a little confused now
09:48am- Danny_B|backup: so am- i
09:48am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: wanna moderate it a bit now, pls? thx
09:48am- Beria: since WMF has majority of FDC (4 in 7) your idea is unlikely seav-WMPH 
09:49am- Philippe: Danny_B|backup: Can only be one place at one time, was just finishing digging for Anthere's page 
09:49am- Danny_B|backup: ah, sorry
09:49am- seav-WMPH: @Beria, nope, WMF is supposed to have no more than 1/3 people in the FDC
09:49am- Philippe: OK, so where's the primary confusion - is it the role o the GAC versus the FDC? 
09:50am- Anthere: kkay, item 1.4 is incompatible with what many of us are indeed currently doing
09:50am- Danny_B|backup: i guess. not the amount delimiter, but the role
09:50am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: ^^
09:50am- Garfield: Anthere:  The grant agreement is still a work in progress and it may differ in places in the agreement.
09:50am- Anthere: Garfield, when do you think it will be ready for consumption ?
09:50am- Anthere: (errr, review...)
09:50am- TomerA_IL: I believe that the FDC approval process will be the more thorough  one. I also assume that in-eligibility(?) is usually due to administrative problems. So it looks like the "more problematic entities" (lake of better word, I had a terrible day) will be given "less supervised" money.
09:51am- abartov: Let me try again: The grants program- remains exactly as it is (including, for example, supporting a smaller grants program- by a requesting entity).
09:51am- TomerA_IL: *non-eligibility seems more proper
09:51am- Garfield: Anthere: I will need to get an update from our legal team- and get back to you on that information.
09:51am- Anthere: Garfield ok
09:51am- Anasuya: The FDC members are community: for the first year,  it's 7 self-nominated members appointed by the Board; but going forward, it is intended to be 5 elected and 4 appointed by the Board (9 in total). No WMF staff are on the FDC. The Ombudsperson is also a self-nominated Board appointed person for this year, but will be up for election in the community elections next year.
09:52am- Danny_B|backup: suggestion - create on meta page like "gac vs. fdc faq" with some sort of comparison table so people can orient quickly
09:52am- Anthere: so yeah, quick look, that's the section 1.4 on the current agreement Beria showed that is a problem for many
09:52am- Beria: Garfield, the ones i saw last year - i saw at least 5 - where wall the same
09:52am- seav-WMPH: So... what's the use of WMF submitting proposals to the FDC if the WMF Board will have the final say anyway?
09:52am- awjr joined the chat room.
09:52am- Philippe: OK, good suggestion, DannyB
09:52am- Anthere: but I take it that it is typically an area you guys will work upon
09:53am- MeeraChary_TBG_: More details about membership can be found here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board#Membership
09:53am- TomerA_IL: Philippe, did you see my question?
09:53am- Philippe: Tomer, I didn't thank you for prodding…
09:53am- • Philippe goes to scrollback
09:53am- Danny_B|backup: one fo mine also scrolled away
09:53am- Danny_B|backup: *of
09:53am- TomerA_IL: Philippe, I believe that the FDC approval process will be the more thorough  one. I also assume that in-eligibility(?) is usually due to administrative problems. So it looks like the "more problematic entities" (lake of better word, I had a terrible day) will be given "less supervised" money.
09:53am- bnewstead: TomerA_IL: Those in the grants program- aren't "more problematic}. They are either groups that choose not to invest in the infrastructure required for the FDC or aren't yet mature enough.  The higher standard for the FDC is needed as we expect there will be larger amounts at play...and funds will provide for more flexibility.
09:54am- Laurentius left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
09:54am- Philippe: Thanks, Danny, what was yours?
09:54am- aude: are nominations open for FDC membership?
09:54am- Philippe: (we're at a 5 minute warning, folks…)
09:54am- • aude not sure where to look
09:54am- gwicke joined the chat room.
09:54am- Philippe: (we have to clear the room for another meeting in 5.)
09:54am- aude:                          
09:54am- • Anthere is done with her questions. Thanks
09:55am- Philippe: Thank you, Anthere 
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09:55am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: for how long is the entity eligible
09:55am- abartov: aude: yes
09:55am- KTC: aude, yes
09:55am- lyzzy: aude: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations
09:55am- aude: lyzzy: thanks
09:55am- Philippe: Danny_B|backup: I believe that got answered - eligibility is reviewed annually.
09:55am- abartov:        http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Call_for_Volunteers    
09:55am- seav-WMPH: repeating: So... what's the use of WMF submitting proposals to the FDC if the WMF Board will have the final say anyway?
09:55am- Laurentius joined the chat room.
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09:55am- TomerA_IL: bnewstead, "not mature enough" is indeed a better phrasing. Also, abartov has said that there is no money cap (and yes, I can understand the difference between "expect" and "criteria"). Yet, my point is still valid.
09:55am- abartov: (The CfV has more information on why you might want to nominate, and why you might not)
09:55am- Danny_B|backup: ah, i must have missed it. thank you. i apologize for repetition then
09:55am- harej: bnewstead: can an organization not yet in that "high infrastructure" stage use the FDC to get there? To what extent can we rely on the FDC? At one point do you say "get your own money"?
09:56am- aude: august 15 is the deadline i see
09:56am- Anthere: seav-WMPH, they will only look if something appears weird
09:56am- Philippe: OK, I think that needs to be the last question for now (the one from harej)
09:56am- harej: (Setting aside IRS requirements, which are what they are—I mean WMF requirements.)
09:56am- Philippe: Reminder that you can mail your questions to anyone on that team- and they'll get you an answer as well.
09:57am- Beria: TomerA_IL, to be able to go to FDC a chapter needs to have at least 2 years (2 finacial request)
09:57am- Danny_B|backup: Anasuya: please see pm
09:57am- Beria: so everyone younger than that cant go
09:57am- • aude thinks wikimedia dc is mature enough
09:57am- aude: scaled up pretty quickly with wikimania, etc.
09:57am- TomerA_IL: Beria, in the "no" list, there are chapters older than that.
09:57am- abartov: harej: The FDC isn't expected to actively nurture entities into eligibility, but WMF staff is 
09:58am- Beria: maybe because they didn't do that
09:58am- Beria: my chapter has 3 years, only one grant
09:58am- harej: abartov: Presumably it'd be the organization itself doing the legwork, but the FDC has the ability to get things moving, as it were.
09:58am- Beria: and therefore is in no list
09:58am- Beria:                          
09:58am- harej: I have the competent to rent an office and hire full-time staff, just not the money.
09:58am- harej: competency*
09:58am- Beria: and i couldn't care less
09:58am- bnewstead: seav-WMPH: Yes the WMF board will have ultimate say over the WMF budget, however the FDC provides for enhanced community review of the WMF non-core budget. Where there are differences between the WMF Board decision and the FDC recommendation (on any decision), it will have heightened scrutiny on all parts. This is an increase in accountability vs today.
09:59am- • aude dislikes firm requirements
09:59am- seav-WMPH: thanks, bnewstead
09:59am- Philippe: OK, folks - in the interests of respecting the time of the meeting after us, I'm going to wrap this up now.
09:59am- Philippe: We'll be posting a log to meta, as usualy.
09:59am- Philippe: and there's anotehr session here in, what, roughly 6 hours?
09:59am- KTC: see you in 6 hours Philippe  
09:59am- Philippe: Thanks, KTC 
10:00am- aude: yay, more office hours!
10:00am- Philippe: Thanks to everyone who came and participated today 
10:00am- bnewstead: Thanks everyone.
10:00am- awjr left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.)
10:00am- lyzzy left the chat room.
10:00am- KTC left the chat room. ("Leaving")
10:00am- Anthere: bye
10:00am- Anasuya: Thanks, bye!