IRC office hours/Office hours 2012-07-25
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Philippe: Good morning everyone…. Garfield will be along presently, but there will be a short delay… just a minute or two, I hope. 09:00am- WiseWoman: No problem! 09:00am- Seddon: Could be worse, could be my wifi 09:00am- Jon__: No problem - 09:00am- ppena joined the chat room. 09:00am- abartov_ joined the chat room. 09:00am- Ziko: hello 09:00am- aude: hi abartov_ 09:01am- MeeraChary_TBG joined the chat room. 09:01am- abartov_ is now known as abartov. 09:01am- abartov: hi, aude! 09:01am- Danny_B|backup: shalom 09:01am- Philippe: Morning Meera, Asaf 09:01am- Fluffernutter: the best office hours are the ones where i can't even understand the description of the topic, let alone the topic itself 09:01am- MeeraChary_TBG: Good morning, all! 09:01am- Philippe: Fluffernutter: Excellent. My work here is done then. 09:01am- KTC: heh 09:02am- bnewstead joined the chat room. 09:02am- Philippe: Good morning, Barry 09:02am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: btw, we have 6pm here (although for me today it's morning-ish ;-)) 09:02am- alhen joined the chat room. 09:02am- alhen left the chat room. (Changing host) 09:02am- alhen joined the chat room. 09:02am- Philippe: Thanks, Danny 09:02am- bnewstead: Hi everyone. 09:02am- Ironholds: Fluffernutter: as I understand it it's about how to fund the effort to spread out committees. 09:02am- Jon__: Hi Barry 09:03am- Ironholds: or, in other words, how to fund the dissemination of committees. It's got mostly the same words so it must be true. 09:03am- Philippe: Ironholds: No, that's the funds fattenation committee 09:03am- • Fluffernutter nods veguely 09:03am- Philippe: Barry, would you like to say a couple of words to kick us off, since Garfield is still making his way in? 09:03am- bnewstead: Why don't I kick off the discussion and then Garfield and Anasuya will probably drive the discussion. 09:03am- mpeel joined the chat room. 09:03am- bnewstead: Good idea, Philippe 09:03am- TomerA: GMTA 09:03am- Garfield joined the chat room. 09:04am- Philippe: Let's try not to do that too often, Barry 09:04am- Danny_B|backup: hello, mr. breakdancer 09:04am- mpeel left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:04am- mpeel joined the chat room. 09:04am- aude: Garfield! 09:04am- You were promoted to operator by ChanServ. 09:04am- bnewstead: This IRC is focused on the work of the Funds Dissemination Committee process which the WMF Board just initiated formally. 09:04am- Johnbod joined the chat room. 09:04am- bnewstead was granted voice by you. 09:04am- Garfield was granted voice by you. 09:05am- Graf_Isolan joined the chat room. 09:05am- bnewstead: The FDC design is the product of work conducted over the past year starting with discussions about Fundraising and Fund Dissemination. 09:05am- mpeel left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:05am- mpeel_ joined the chat room. 09:06am- bnewstead: Starting in April, we have been working on the FDC design with an Advisory Group and engaged participation of community members on Meta. 09:06am- seav-WMPH joined the chat room. 09:06am- bnewstead: Our goal for this call is to clarify questions and the FDC process as we will quickly be moving into the first round of the process starting on 1 Aug. 09:07am- sgardner joined the chat room. 09:07am- lyzzy joined the chat room. 09:07am- mpeel_ left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:07am- Danny_B|backup: good morning/evening, ladies 09:07am- mpeel joined the chat room. 09:07am- JeanKevin: hello 09:07am- JeanKevin: euh 09:07am- bnewstead: I think that is enough context. For those who want more background, there are volumes of information on Meta here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee 09:07am- JeanKevin is now known as Anthere. 09:08am- Anthere left the chat room. (Changing host) 09:08am- Anthere joined the chat room. 09:08am- Philippe: OK, Barry, how should we proceed then? You mentioned clarifying questions and process. Do you have a feeling for the best way to do that? 09:08am- mpeel left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:08am- mpeel_ joined the chat room. 09:09am- WiseWoman: bnewstead: volumes are too much to read When is the deadline for the first round, August 1? Or is that the kickoff? 09:09am- Jon__: I have two questions - one whether the current form fits the fundraising four - seems one way, and second about the political activities cluse which may work for the U S but not for the U K 09:09am- Anthere: I already put my main question on foundation-l to save writing time here 09:09am- Philippe: OK, so I see three questions on the table…. WW, and then Jon, plus Anthere on the wiki 09:09am- bnewstead: Why don't we open the floor for questions and comments. Note: the main topic of interest for today is eligibility of entities, but we'll take broader Qs as well. We'll track the questions and do our best to answer as many as we have time for. We'll also put answers on Meta. 09:10am- mpeel_ left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:10am- mpeel joined the chat room. 09:10am- Danny_B|backup: bnewstead: to clarify: eligibility to receive funds or eligibility to participate in fdc? 09:10am- Philippe: So then, the first would be Wisewoman… just asking abou tthe deadline and whether that's the 8/1 date? 09:10am- WiseWoman: Yes - deadline and of course who is eligible to apply. 09:11am- WiseWoman: Is there a form for the application and is there a cap on how much one can apply for? 09:11am- abartov: Danny_B: to apply for and receive funds through the FDC process 09:11am- Danny_B|backup: thx 09:11am- mpeel left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:11am- Anasuya: Hi everyone, this is my first WM IRC! The deadline for proposals to the FDC is October 1, though we'd like to encourage everyone who's interested to start the process well before, so we can help as much as we can. The FDC proposal forms will be available from August 1, so that's when the kickoff is 09:12am- mpeel_ joined the chat room. 09:12am- Philippe: Anasuya is our new Director of Learning and Global Grantmaking, for those who don't know. (Did I get that right?) 09:12am- bnewstead: FYI: We have Garfield Byrd, Anasuya Sengupta and Asaf Bartov here. They will tackle the questions. 09:12am- Garfield: Jon the current form does fit both the payment processing chapters and FDC grant applicants. There will need to be some small change in language in the agreement. 09:12am- abartov: Philippe: Global Learning and Grantmaking. 09:12am- Anthere: hiya Anasuya 09:12am- Anasuya: Yes, you did, Philippe. And yes, it's a mouthful 09:12am- abartov: (not that grantmaking ain't global...) 09:12am- Philippe: d'oh! So close. 09:12am- Seb35 joined the chat room. 09:13am- Philippe: OK, Anthere had a question which she sent to FOundation-l 09:13am- Anthere: salut seb 09:13am- Jon__: Not sure it does - speaks of the money coming one way from the FDC which is tricky as we are meant to be independent. Legal thoughts? 09:13am- Philippe: and I was going to grab it but you went so fast that I need a sec 09:13am- mpeel_ left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:13am- mpeel joined the chat room. 09:13am- Seb35: hei 09:13am- Bence: I would really appreciate a 2-page summary of the process for those who would consider applying to the FDC. It seems there are hundreds of pages, and the important info is hidden under the unnecessary internal details... Maybe something like the intro of this page, without the rest: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board ? 09:14am- Philippe: Anthere's question is about the translation of financial reports 09:14am- Anthere: +1 Bence 09:14am- Philippe: Is a short form, essentially, acceptable, or must they translate their full financial report? 09:14am- Anthere: and is short form, is there a template yet, or not 09:14am- Anthere: if short form 09:14am- Philippe: Thanks, Anthere. 09:14am- Danny_B|backup: Bence: [[User:Philippe (WMF)|Philippe (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Philippe (WMF)|talk]]) 17:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC) 09:15am- mpeel left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:15am- mpeel_ joined the chat room. 09:15am- Jon__: lotsof 'requesteds' can we get round this with 'agreeds' instead? 09:16am- harej joined the chat room. 09:16am- Danny_B|backup: hare rocker! 09:16am- kkay joined the chat room. 09:16am- MeeraChary_TBG left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:16am- Anasuya: Bence, it's a good idea - we'll get that ready. We're also working on a FDC portal, which should also be ready to go August 1. That should make it all much easier. 09:16am- mpeel_ left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:16am- kkay left the chat room. 09:16am- mpeel joined the chat room. 09:16am- Anthere: incidently, I kind of "waou" to the fact Wikimedia Philippines was already all set. How can it be ??? 09:16am- bnewstead: Jon__: that is exactly the kind of wording adjustments that will fix the problem you raise. 09:17am- lyzzy: try to make it inviting, no eligible entity should hesitate to make an application 09:17am- Jon__: Sortes - blessed are the peacemakers! 09:17am- WiseWoman: I'm a bit confused since on Meta there is talk of a June 1 deadline. And the elegability is defined as: "Your organization must be recognized as an affiliate organization as defined in the Board of Trustees resolution dated March 31, 2012 (“Resolution”). but there is no link there. So who is eligible to apply for funding? 09:17am- lyzzy: (sry, that was a reply to Anasuya) 09:17am- MeeraChary_TBG joined the chat room. 09:17am- kkay joined the chat room. 09:18am- abartov: Anthere: It can be because the eligibility requirements are fairly reasonable, and they have been diligent in submitting their reports on time. In fairness, they are native English speakers. 09:18am- mpeel left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:18am- mpeel joined the chat room. 09:18am- Philippe: OK, I believe the questions that are active are Anthere and WiseWoman 09:18am- • abartov is considering a grant to help mpeel get a stable net connection. 09:18am- Anthere: unfair 09:18am- mpeel: abartov: sorry, I'm at a radio observatory in the middle of a desert! 09:19am- thekaryn joined the chat room. 09:19am- Anasuya: WiseWoman: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/2012_Round_1_Eligibility_Status 09:19am- Jon__: Plus the US political declaration 09:19am- Philippe: Anthere's asking about translation and how much of their report needs to be translated (and is there a short form?); WiseWoman is still unclear about eligibility requirements. 09:19am- TomerA: Perhaps I somehow missed it (I did not use IRC for ages) but I didn't see an answer to Anthere 09:19am- mpeel left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:19am- seav-WMPH: Question: if an entity is eligible, is it permanent or is it subject to renewal of some sort? 09:19am- mpeel_ joined the chat room. 09:19am- Frood_ is now known as Frood. 09:20am- Danny_B|backup: mpeel_: turn off the radio? 09:20am- Anthere: TomerA, still waiting as well 09:20am- bnewstead: Garfield is writing a response to Anthere now. 09:20am- WiseWoman: Yes, I was interested in "Category 2: restricted grants for individuals and entities;" - are only chapters meant by the term "entities"? 09:20am- Anthere: but that's a one requiring details 09:20am- mpeel_: (sorry, will have to give up with this internet connection - look forward to reading the transcript afterwards…) 09:20am- mpeel_ left the chat room. (Client Quit) 09:20am- Jon__: masochist 09:21am- Nemo_bis: WiseWoman: no 09:21am- Philippe: OK, I'm assuming that Anasuya is still handling WiseWoman's question.... 09:21am- thekaryn left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection) 09:21am- Philippe: and Barry is working on Anthere 09:21am- Garfield: Anthere: For the FDC process, a short form summary financial report is all that will be needed translated into English. This will not be the same reporting requirement for payment processing chapters, which is for audited financial statements. 09:21am- Philippe: Which leaves Seav-WMPH 09:21am- bnewstead: Jon__: The political activities issue is not applicable in the case of payment processing as the funds aren't originating in the US. 09:22am- thekaryn joined the chat room. 09:22am- • Anthere is looking for deadlines.... 09:22am- Anthere: do you wish to provide us a template form Garfield or are we pushing this back for next year ? 09:22am- Philippe: And Seav wanted to know "if an entity is eligible, is it permanent or is it subject to renewal of some sort?" 09:22am- abartov: WiseWoman: the Wikimedia Grants program- is open to absolutely everyone: individuals, informal groups, chapters, other organizations. (cont'd) 09:23am- Anasuya: Seav: eligibility is subject to renewal every year. 09:23am- abartov: WiseWoman: so completion of two grants, or one grant and one payment-processing year, or two payment-processing years is one criterion for eligibility. 09:24am- seav-WMPH: Thanks. At least we've passed the initial hurdle. 09:24am- Philippe: OK, the questions queue is clear. Are there others? 09:24am- Garfield: Anthere: The deadline is October 1 and if needed we can provide a template for applicants to use. 09:24am- Philippe: Or shall we ask Asaf to entertain us? 09:24am- WiseWoman: abartov, that's not the impression I get from reading http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/2012_Round_1_Eligibility_Status, which seems to be just chapter-oriented. Does this mean that only entities who have had money in the past are eligible for money in the future? How does one get their first grant, then? 09:24am- Anthere: I think either a template or a sample would be nice 09:25am- Anthere: a sample = an fake example 09:25am- Garfield: Anthere: We can have a sample template available by the end of the month. 09:25am- Danny_B|backup: re completion of two grants - was it considered that grants are of different size and period? it is obviously much easier and faster to complete two one-purpose grants than two long-term grants 09:25am- ppena left the chat room. 09:25am- Anthere: ok 09:25am- • alhen gives WiseWoman a +1 09:25am- lyzzy: WiseWoman: they get their first grant from the GAC 09:26am- WiseWoman: GAC=? 09:26am- KTC: grant advisory committee 09:26am- Philippe: Ah, so that would be interesting to clarify on that page, perhaps…. The two types of grants and how / when one goes to each? 09:26am- WiseWoman: Link? 09:26am- abartov: lyzzy, WiseWoman, they get their first (and second) grant from the Wikimedia Grants program, which is advised by the GAC. 09:26am- Anasuya: WiseWoman: the difference between the FDC process and the Wikimedia Grants Program- is that the first is for eligible entities (right now it may be only chapters, but that does not preclude other entities in the future), in order to support their annual plans and full time staff positions. (con'td) 09:26am- lyzzy: and it's not only chapters but also the "new" groups like thematic organizations that can apply 09:26am- KTC: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grant_Advisory_Committee 09:26am- bnewstead: Anthere: it is probably easiest to do a google translate of your existing financial statements and do a quick check for bad translations. I wouldn't suggest changing the format, as that might require accounting time. I've used Google Translate to read your statements before and it works pretty well. 09:26am- abartov: FDC funds are not grants, and we have been careful to avoid mixing the language. 09:26am- abartov: I understand the confusion, though. 09:27am- Anasuya: WiseWoman: The Wikimedia Grants Program- is for project funding and can include part time staff for those projects - contact Asaf for more details! 09:27am- xlorm joined the chat room. 09:27am- Anthere: could you add some more date to the timetable ? 09:28am- Anthere: bnewstead it did ? I would not have expected it to be good. But okay, we'll try that 09:29am- Anthere: deadline to provide the financial reports is october 1 09:29am- Danny_B|backup: Anasuya: can it? last time i heard that the support for stuff is no longer considered 09:29am- Philippe: So, outstanding question from Danny_B|backup: re completion of two grants - was it considered that grants are of different size and period? it is obviously much easier and faster to complete two one-purpose grants than two long-term grants 09:29am- Anthere: and what is deadline for the FDC request ? 09:30am- MeeraChary_TBG_ joined the chat room. 09:30am- TomerA: Anthere, bnewstead, you can't be sure that they were good. It could be that you got wrong information 09:30am- Anasuya: Danny_B: you're right, but we haven't made a distinction between the different kinds of grants, so we could be more inclusive at this stage. 09:30am- traunno joined the chat room. 09:31am- Anthere: hmmm, true. But there are some French speaking people at the WMF who can say so (unless they have no clue about accounting of course) 09:31am- bnewstead: TomerA: that is certainly possible. My main point is to take the easiest road for this round. 09:31am- MeeraChary_TBG left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:31am- abartov: Danny_B: full-time staff is not available via Wikimedia Grants. Part-time work to support a specific project may be considered, if reasonable policies are in place. 09:32am- Philippe: Outstanding question from Anthere: Anthere: and what is deadline for the FDC request ? 09:32am- Pharos joined the chat room. 09:32am- Anthere: a timetable for all annual steps would be great 09:33am- seav-WMPH: So the FDC will not replace the GAC? All along I thought that disbursement of movement funds (except for WMF core ops) will only be through the FDC 09:33am- TomerA is now known as TomerA_IL. 09:33am- abartov: Anthere: pasting from http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board -- 09:34am- • aude thinks FDC only for $50,000 + 09:34am- abartov: Funds Process Timeline 09:34am- abartov: Step 1: Applicant submits letter of intent indicating that they want to request funding: 1 June (Round 1) and 1 November (Round 2) 09:34am- abartov: Step 2: WMF staff determine whether entities are eligible based on established criteria: 15 July (Round 1) and 15 December (Round 2) 09:34am- abartov: Step 3: Eligible entities submit an application to the FDC by 1 October (Round 1) and 1 March (Round 2) 09:34am- abartov: Step 4: FDC staff develop an objective evaluation of application's potential for impact: October (Round 1) and March (Round 2) 09:34am- abartov: Step 5: FDC sends final recommendation to the Board: 15 November (Round 1) and 15 April (Round 2) 09:34am- abartov: Step 6: Board makes final decision on funds dissemination: 15 December (Round 1) and 15 May (Round 2) 09:34am- abartov: Step 7: Funds recipients sign grant agreement 09:34am- abartov: Step 8: WMF releases funds: Within 30 days of receiving a signed grant agreement 09:34am- abartov: seav-WMPH: no, the Grants program- lives on 09:34am- WiseWoman: So Round 1 is already over? 09:34am- aude: what, we missed round 1? 09:34am- Philippe: …and was just expanded with new committee members, abartov, no? 09:35am- Danny_B|backup: yes it was 09:35am- Anthere: Step7: grant agreement ? 09:35am- Philippe: aude, I believe the date was backed up. That should be updated. 09:35am- abartov: WiseWoman: that is the general framework. Specifically for this year, we've assumed everybody's interested 09:35am- • aude and wikimedia dc is desparate for staff help 09:35am- Anasuya: Summary DEADLINES: All eligibility gaps must be met by October 1, in consultation with Garfield. The FDC Proposal must be submitted by October 1 (the form will be available August 1). Once the portal is live (August 1), all info will be available on it. 09:35am- abartov: So no need for letters of intent. 09:35am- aude: Philippe: good 09:35am- Pharos: good 09:35am- Philippe: There ya go. 09:35am- abartov: Philippe: yes, the GAC is now 30 member strong and raring to go. Bring me your grant proposals! 09:35am- Anthere: so, making a FDC request still requires to sign a grant agreement ? 09:36am- abartov: Anthere: yes, let me clarify my earlier statement: 09:36am- bnewstead: seav-WMPH: The FDC will not replace the Wikimedia Grants Program- (and other grant programs of other entities). The FDC is only designed to work with relatively mature Wikimedia entities who are ready to manage general operating resources. There are many other groups who need a program- to support their activities...that is the role of the Wikimedia Grants program. 09:36am- abartov: Anthere: while FDC funds are technically grants (at least for the non-payment-processing chapters), we have been careful to avoid the term grants _on the wiki pages_, to reduce confusion. 09:36am- cndiv left the chat room. (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/) 09:37am- abartov: ...Precisely to avoid the impression that this somehow replaces the existing Grants program. 09:37am- Anthere: hmmm, ok 09:38am- Anthere: So... practically, that means that whilst we have the board approve the program, it should also approve the grant agreement and approve the grant request 09:39am- Anthere: I hope that the grant agreement has been reworked so as not to include these weird obligations that would be illegal to abid for in most countries ? 09:39am- Jon__: I have to go and make the Olympics work. Can we have an answer about the Political activities disclaimer by email. Basically we are expected to be consulted by government on legislation which seesm at odds with thi. 09:39am- Jon__: Habe anice day 09:39am- Danny_B|backup: once the entity is eligible, can it become ineligible again because of (...?...) ? 09:39am- cndiv joined the chat room. 09:39am- seav-WMPH: That's weird, the following sentence in the March 2012 WMF Board Resolution states: "All funds raised via the Wikimedia project sites will be distributed via the recommendations of the FDC, with the exception of Wikimedia Foundation core operating costs and the operating reserve as described above." 09:39am- TomerA_IL: Danny_B|backup, because of not sending annual reports for example. 09:40am- Anthere: (and can you have a wiki page with the copy paste of the timeline so that we can find it again later ?) 09:40am- seav-WMPH: That seems to leave out the GAC program 09:40am- Anasuya: Jon: yes, we'll do that. As Barry said, we're also changing the proposal form to reflect this. And go make the Olympics work - enjoy! 09:40am- Garfield: Anthere: Please clarify your question. 09:40am- abartov: Danny_B: because of failing to provide timely reports, or the unlikely actual misconduct. 09:40am- Danny_B|backup: let me rephrase - for how long is the entity eligible 09:40am- Jon__ left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed) 09:40am- • Anthere is trying to find the grant agreement.... 09:40am- Pancetta joined the chat room. 09:40am- Pancetta left the chat room. (Changing host) 09:40am- Pancetta joined the chat room. 09:40am- harej left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 09:40am- abartov: Anthere, I announced where I was pasting from... Here it is again: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board 09:40am- Pancetta: oof! internet! 09:40am- Pancetta: 12:36:55 <harej> I understand that the FDC and the GAC will exist in tandem. Say I have a borderline case—an application for $40,000 of funding for something. It's within the scope of the GAC still, but I could just as easily add $10K to the pricetag and make it an FDC concern. Is the FDC simply the same process as GAC but with a higher level of scrutiny, or does the FDC exist for more general organizational funding while the GAC is 09:40am- Pancetta: specific projects? 09:40am- Pancetta: 12:38:04 <harej> (abartov could tell you that my organization has filed an application that was well beyond even the $50K threshold, and it was understandably shot down.) 09:41am- Philippe: Right, I think she's asking for a page with just that deadline section, abartov 09:41am- Pancetta is now known as harej. 09:41am- WiseWoman: abartov, most of these pages are addressed at people who are members of the decision group. We are people considering applying. 09:41am- Bence: abartov: that page is well hidden among a mess of links on meta:FDC and in a page entitled "draft". Just because it is on Meta somwehere, doesn't make it findable. And sometimes, one can have too much information in one place... 09:41am- WiseWoman: It would be useful to have a timeline, an example application, an example report, etc. 09:42am- abartov: WiseWoman: indeed! We are building an FDC portal -- take a peek here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal 09:42am- bnewstead: Pancetta: There is no financial threshold of $50K. FDC vs. Grants is based on the eligibility of the entity or the planned usage of funds (e.g., funds for a specific project vs. general operating funds). 09:42am- abartov: WiseWoman: that would be aimed first and foremost at applicants. 09:42am- Bence: abartov: that page looks much better 09:42am- aude: bnewstead: good to know 09:42am- Beria_: quoting again 09:42am- Beria_: "That's weird, the following sentence in the March 2012 WMF Board Resolution states: "All funds raised via the Wikimedia project sites will be distributed via the recommendations of the FDC, with the exception of Wikimedia Foundation core operating costs and the operating reserve as described above."" 09:42am- Philippe: OK, so I think that covers the questions, with the exception of the one that Anthere is going to clarify 09:42am- • aude was confused 09:42am- abartov: Bence: it's not really entitled draft anymore, and hasn't been for weeks. This is just a redirect that still gets quoted... 09:42am- Anthere: ok, so I did it: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Timeline 09:42am- Philippe: ooh, thanks, Beria 09:43am- Beria_ is now known as Beria. 09:43am- Philippe: i missed that one 09:43am- Danny_B|backup: the threshold is rather orientational as far as i understood, harej 09:43am- Anthere: can someone help me find a default grant agreement ? 09:43am- abartov: Anthere: thanks! 09:43am- Beria: An there, internal wiki 09:43am- Anasuya: Seav: The approval process is this - the Board approves all funds to the FDC; WMF in turn applies to the FDC, and this proposal includes the Wikimedia Grants Program. 09:44am- harej: bnewstead: So, the appropriate venue is not governed by dollar amount but by use/eligibility. Could an organization conceivably use both? Is one better than another? 09:44am- bnewstead: Beria: The Wikimedia Grants Program- will be approved by the FDC in the WMF submission, so it is consistent with the board resolution. 09:44am- Beria: it WILL? 09:44am- anirudh: heh 09:45am- Beria: how do you k now that if the FDC doesn t exist 09:45am- Anthere: Philippe, can you help with finding the grant agreement template ? 09:45am- Philippe: Anthere, I'm looking, but I don't spend much time on those pages. 09:45am- abartov: Beria: and analogously, other entities can use their FDC allocation to run their own micro-grants programs. 09:46am- seav-WMPH: thanks for the clarification 09:46am- Beria: Anthere, http://mitglieder.wikimedia.at/images/c/c3/2011-08-19_Chapter_Grant_Agreement_%28Draft%29.pdf 09:46am- Philippe: Ah, thanks, Beria 09:46am- Garfield: Anthere: The grant agreement for the FDC process is not completed yet. 09:47am- Danny_B|backup: abartov: so no longer gac for having funds for local grants like we do, do i understand correctly? 09:47am- kkay: Anthere, we will be working on new and improved grant templates for this year and the fundraising Chapters will have letter agreements with the foundation. 09:47am- abartov: Danny_B: no, you can still include a grants program- in your regular Wikimedia Grants application. 09:47am- Anthere: Garfield, do you plan for it to defer significantly from last year' ? 09:47am- harej: Wikimedia DC created a grants program- a few days ago. 09:47am- seav-WMPH: Based on the process, the WMF Board approves all the recommendations of the FDC. Is there a conceivable case where WMF submits a proposal to the FDC and if the FDC rejects it, the WMF Board will veto it anyway? 09:47am- bnewstead: harej: Correct. An organization could draw on both, though it isn't really preferable as the Grants Program- will have limited funds and it aims to work with more diverse groups. 09:48am- Beria: abartov, it can't because grants arent covered for the FDC 09:48am- TomerA_IL: I'm a little confused now 09:48am- Danny_B|backup: so am- i 09:48am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: wanna moderate it a bit now, pls? thx 09:48am- Beria: since WMF has majority of FDC (4 in 7) your idea is unlikely seav-WMPH 09:49am- Philippe: Danny_B|backup: Can only be one place at one time, was just finishing digging for Anthere's page 09:49am- Danny_B|backup: ah, sorry 09:49am- seav-WMPH: @Beria, nope, WMF is supposed to have no more than 1/3 people in the FDC 09:49am- Philippe: OK, so where's the primary confusion - is it the role o the GAC versus the FDC? 09:50am- Anthere: kkay, item 1.4 is incompatible with what many of us are indeed currently doing 09:50am- Danny_B|backup: i guess. not the amount delimiter, but the role 09:50am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: ^^ 09:50am- Garfield: Anthere: The grant agreement is still a work in progress and it may differ in places in the agreement. 09:50am- Anthere: Garfield, when do you think it will be ready for consumption ? 09:50am- Anthere: (errr, review...) 09:50am- TomerA_IL: I believe that the FDC approval process will be the more thorough one. I also assume that in-eligibility(?) is usually due to administrative problems. So it looks like the "more problematic entities" (lake of better word, I had a terrible day) will be given "less supervised" money. 09:51am- abartov: Let me try again: The grants program- remains exactly as it is (including, for example, supporting a smaller grants program- by a requesting entity). 09:51am- TomerA_IL: *non-eligibility seems more proper 09:51am- Garfield: Anthere: I will need to get an update from our legal team- and get back to you on that information. 09:51am- Anthere: Garfield ok 09:51am- Anasuya: The FDC members are community: for the first year, it's 7 self-nominated members appointed by the Board; but going forward, it is intended to be 5 elected and 4 appointed by the Board (9 in total). No WMF staff are on the FDC. The Ombudsperson is also a self-nominated Board appointed person for this year, but will be up for election in the community elections next year. 09:52am- Danny_B|backup: suggestion - create on meta page like "gac vs. fdc faq" with some sort of comparison table so people can orient quickly 09:52am- Anthere: so yeah, quick look, that's the section 1.4 on the current agreement Beria showed that is a problem for many 09:52am- Beria: Garfield, the ones i saw last year - i saw at least 5 - where wall the same 09:52am- seav-WMPH: So... what's the use of WMF submitting proposals to the FDC if the WMF Board will have the final say anyway? 09:52am- awjr joined the chat room. 09:52am- Philippe: OK, good suggestion, DannyB 09:52am- Anthere: but I take it that it is typically an area you guys will work upon 09:53am- MeeraChary_TBG_: More details about membership can be found here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board#Membership 09:53am- TomerA_IL: Philippe, did you see my question? 09:53am- Philippe: Tomer, I didn't thank you for prodding… 09:53am- • Philippe goes to scrollback 09:53am- Danny_B|backup: one fo mine also scrolled away 09:53am- Danny_B|backup: *of 09:53am- TomerA_IL: Philippe, I believe that the FDC approval process will be the more thorough one. I also assume that in-eligibility(?) is usually due to administrative problems. So it looks like the "more problematic entities" (lake of better word, I had a terrible day) will be given "less supervised" money. 09:53am- bnewstead: TomerA_IL: Those in the grants program- aren't "more problematic}. They are either groups that choose not to invest in the infrastructure required for the FDC or aren't yet mature enough. The higher standard for the FDC is needed as we expect there will be larger amounts at play...and funds will provide for more flexibility. 09:54am- Laurentius left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 09:54am- Philippe: Thanks, Danny, what was yours? 09:54am- aude: are nominations open for FDC membership? 09:54am- Philippe: (we're at a 5 minute warning, folks…) 09:54am- • aude not sure where to look 09:54am- gwicke joined the chat room. 09:54am- Philippe: (we have to clear the room for another meeting in 5.) 09:54am- aude: 09:54am- • Anthere is done with her questions. Thanks 09:55am- Philippe: Thank you, Anthere 09:55am- jvandavier joined the chat room. 09:55am- Danny_B|backup: Philippe: for how long is the entity eligible 09:55am- abartov: aude: yes 09:55am- KTC: aude, yes 09:55am- lyzzy: aude: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Nominations 09:55am- aude: lyzzy: thanks 09:55am- Philippe: Danny_B|backup: I believe that got answered - eligibility is reviewed annually. 09:55am- abartov: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Call_for_Volunteers 09:55am- seav-WMPH: repeating: So... what's the use of WMF submitting proposals to the FDC if the WMF Board will have the final say anyway? 09:55am- Laurentius joined the chat room. 09:55am- Laurentius left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection) 09:55am- TomerA_IL: bnewstead, "not mature enough" is indeed a better phrasing. Also, abartov has said that there is no money cap (and yes, I can understand the difference between "expect" and "criteria"). Yet, my point is still valid. 09:55am- abartov: (The CfV has more information on why you might want to nominate, and why you might not) 09:55am- Danny_B|backup: ah, i must have missed it. thank you. i apologize for repetition then 09:55am- harej: bnewstead: can an organization not yet in that "high infrastructure" stage use the FDC to get there? To what extent can we rely on the FDC? At one point do you say "get your own money"? 09:56am- aude: august 15 is the deadline i see 09:56am- Anthere: seav-WMPH, they will only look if something appears weird 09:56am- Philippe: OK, I think that needs to be the last question for now (the one from harej) 09:56am- harej: (Setting aside IRS requirements, which are what they are—I mean WMF requirements.) 09:56am- Philippe: Reminder that you can mail your questions to anyone on that team- and they'll get you an answer as well. 09:57am- Beria: TomerA_IL, to be able to go to FDC a chapter needs to have at least 2 years (2 finacial request) 09:57am- Danny_B|backup: Anasuya: please see pm 09:57am- Beria: so everyone younger than that cant go 09:57am- • aude thinks wikimedia dc is mature enough 09:57am- aude: scaled up pretty quickly with wikimania, etc. 09:57am- TomerA_IL: Beria, in the "no" list, there are chapters older than that. 09:57am- abartov: harej: The FDC isn't expected to actively nurture entities into eligibility, but WMF staff is 09:58am- Beria: maybe because they didn't do that 09:58am- Beria: my chapter has 3 years, only one grant 09:58am- harej: abartov: Presumably it'd be the organization itself doing the legwork, but the FDC has the ability to get things moving, as it were. 09:58am- Beria: and therefore is in no list 09:58am- Beria: 09:58am- harej: I have the competent to rent an office and hire full-time staff, just not the money. 09:58am- harej: competency* 09:58am- Beria: and i couldn't care less 09:58am- bnewstead: seav-WMPH: Yes the WMF board will have ultimate say over the WMF budget, however the FDC provides for enhanced community review of the WMF non-core budget. Where there are differences between the WMF Board decision and the FDC recommendation (on any decision), it will have heightened scrutiny on all parts. This is an increase in accountability vs today. 09:59am- • aude dislikes firm requirements 09:59am- seav-WMPH: thanks, bnewstead 09:59am- Philippe: OK, folks - in the interests of respecting the time of the meeting after us, I'm going to wrap this up now. 09:59am- Philippe: We'll be posting a log to meta, as usualy. 09:59am- Philippe: and there's anotehr session here in, what, roughly 6 hours? 09:59am- KTC: see you in 6 hours Philippe 09:59am- Philippe: Thanks, KTC 10:00am- aude: yay, more office hours! 10:00am- Philippe: Thanks to everyone who came and participated today 10:00am- bnewstead: Thanks everyone. 10:00am- awjr left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.) 10:00am- lyzzy left the chat room. 10:00am- KTC left the chat room. ("Leaving") 10:00am- Anthere: bye 10:00am- Anasuya: Thanks, bye!