IRC office hours/Office hours 2012-09-25

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* Fluffernutter ponders whether that counts
<Ironholds> this'll be *fun*.
<Logan_> Sounds forced.
<fabriceflorin> Hello Fluffernutter, Utar, great to meet again!
<Ironholds> Logan_: don't make me kickban you
<Fluffernutter> hi fabriceflorin :)
<Ironholds> heatherw is also clearly here for office hours :)
<Logan_> Ironholds: <3
<Utar> fabriceflorin: hi, fabrice
<Ironholds> Logan_, Spitfire, you attending for similar purposes
<Qcoder02> So page curation is an attempt to make the interface for reviewing news pages easier for people that don't have autistc level knowledge of reviewing templates ? XD
<Qcoder02> *new
* Ironholds hugs Logan_. I'd never hurt you. Too terribly.
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: something like that ;p
<heatherw> clearly
<Logan_> That's comforting.
<fabriceflorin> Hello heatherw, so glad you could join our chat on Page Curation!
<Ironholds> Logan_: it should be, I don't say the same about most people.
<Ironholds> anyway; page curation.
<Ironholds> who has or has not used it?
* legoktm has used it a bit
* heatherw so has
* Fluffernutter hasn't used it in a few weeks now, but i poked it before then
<Ironholds> Fluffernutter: we just threw out a final release. I am judging you so hard right now.
* Fluffernutter sobs
<Ironholds> Logan_, bluerasberry, Spitfire?
<bluerasberry> I watched someone else use it
<fabriceflorin> For those of you who would like a quick overview on Page Curation, check our welcome page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Page_Curation/Introduction
<Ironholds> bluerasberry: okay, thank you for giving me the answer I did not have questions tailored for ;p
<bluerasberry> and I watched the video
<Logan_> Haven't used it.
* Utar knocks on Ironhold's backs
<Ironholds> Logan_: why not? Special:NewPagesFeed. No excuses ;p
<Ironholds> hey, Utar :)
<fabriceflorin> Hi bluerasberry, glad you got a chance to see the video. Any initial impressions?
<Logan_> Ironholds: Oh, **that**. Yes, I have.
<Utar> Ironholds: hey hey
<Ironholds> bsitu, kaldari, welcome to the house of fun :)
<Ironholds> Logan_: and what are your thoughts on it? Ditto Fluffernutter, heatherw, legoktm
<bsitu> :-D
<bluerasberry> the audio in the video struck me as lower quality than the video itself
<bluerasberry> I like the video visual content a lot, and the narration, but the microphone was not getting an optimally clear voice
<Utar> Ironholds: Hous of Fun? I have found Hotel Wikipedia yesterday...
<legoktm> Ironholds: it's a bit annoying when I'm on a newly created user-subpage (for like my bot) which really doesn't need review
<Logan_> Ironholds: I think the sidebar icons need tooltips.
<fabriceflorin> We're really glad that kaldari and bsitu are here: they were the main developers for Page Curation.
<Logan_> Ironholds: The two arrows button is somewhat ambiguous.
<Ironholds> Logan_: that's a good point. kaldari, now you're the one being judged ;p
<Ironholds> more seriously - we had a talk, like, yesterday about adding tooltips.
<Logan_> Oh, really?
<Ironholds> the reaction was "I thought I'd added those"
<legoktm> Also, it would be nice if I could click once to get the green arrow, rather than say I don't want to leave the reviewer a message
<Ironholds> so I hope they shall be done :)
<Logan_> Awesome. :)
<Fluffernutter> I see that the minor bug of "curation bar covering text at right of screen" is still there :/
<Ironholds> legoktm: that'd speed things up, yep :). I'm not sure how we'd implement it, but we're doing a second pass in a few months and can hopefully take a look
<Qcoder02> I've used the Page Curation tools myself
<Qcoder02> I like them
<Ironholds> Fluffernutter: minimise it?
<fabriceflorin> bluerasberry: Thanks for the tip about the audio issue, will look into that. Any impressions about Page Curation as a whole? Does it seem useful? What do you like most? Least?
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: grand! :)
<kaldari> Ironholds: Do we have a bug for the tooltips?
<Fluffernutter> er, oh dear. i appear to have made it go away entirely
<Qcoder02> Can consideration be given to overhaul so that TWINKLE and FURME work more like the Curation Tools?
* Fluffernutter is smrt
<Ironholds> kaldari: we do not! I shall add one to make sure we all know it's more than close/minimise buttons
<bluerasberry> I like that it incorporates wikilove
<Ironholds> Fluffernutter: and this is why we need tooltips
<heatherw> I love it, I don't love all of the messages but Ironholds showed me how to change them.
<Fluffernutter> Ironholds: er, is there a way to bring it back once i've killed it? or do i need to reload from the curation list?
<Utar> Ironholds: As a whole it sounds as a good idea though I am just wondering...
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: you mean...can we overhaul javascript gadgets built by editors?
<fabriceflorin> Fluffernutter: You can make the curation toolbar come back by clicking on 'Curate this page' in the Toolbox on the left sidebar.
<Ironholds> Fluffernutter: hit "curate this article" on the left sidebar. I appreciate it's not massively intuitive
<heatherw> I'm glad that the edit summary has improved
<Utar> Ironholds: why is there so much white space in the beggining of Wikipedia:Page Curation :P ?
<Qcoder02> I mean is it possible to have curation tools for 'media'?
<Ironholds> heatherw: all credit to kaldari!
<Fluffernutter> ah, clever fabriceflorin, thanks :)
<heatherw> <3 kaldari
<Ironholds> Utar: that is/should be temporary, I think :). It's so we can throw out the "We're working on this, come talk to us" message and not have it all cluttered
<Utar> okok
<Logan_> Ironholds: I don't think that "Orphan" should necessarily be a potential problem for pages in the User namespace.
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: we can totally talk about widening it out to the file namespace :)
<Ironholds> Logan_: excellent point.
<heatherw> I want to be able to use the tools on articles that are no longer in the queue
<Ironholds> heatherw: that's more of a meta-issue, I think :). I agree it'd be helpful, though.
<Utar> Ironholds: and New Pages Feed is definitely a leap forward
<heatherw> Just sayin ;)
<fabriceflorin> Logan: Can you tell us more about why you don't think 'Orphan' should be listed a possible issue? I've had the same concern myself.
<Ironholds> heatherw: and agreed! You should talk to Methlab von Hobostache. He has a Plan
<kaldari> heatherw: That's for a future phase of development, right now it won't scale to all articles due to how we're handling the article metadata.
<Ironholds> he always has a Plan
<heatherw> I like that orphan is listed, personally
<Qcoder02> In terms of 'Media' I'm used to the tag interface TWINKLE has...
<Ironholds> I'm pretty sure he scripts *breakfast*. And then cackles over it.
<Ironholds> heatherw: for userpages?
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: we'd probably try to keep it internally consistent with the other namespaces, if we implement it, I have to say
<heatherw> I don't pay attention to userpages :)
<Ironholds> fabriceflorin: because userpages shouldn't be linked to from the mainspace :)
<Logan_> ^
<fabriceflorin> It seems to me that many pages would initially start out as orphans, so it could be a bit drastic to call them problem pages.
<Ironholds> fabriceflorin: well, we don't
<Ironholds> it's "a possible problem" or "a yellow card", like
<Ironholds> because if no existing articles link to a new article it's possible the new article is cruft
<bluerasberry> I like that orphans are immediately tagged. It should be the page creator's duty to link other articles to their new page.
<Logan_> But not when they're in the user namespace. :)
<Ironholds> indeed
<Qcoder02> Ironholds: Arguably there is some overlap between the Page Curation tools and parts of TWINKLE already
<fabriceflorin> Yeah, I don't feel very strongly about this, which is why we kept the orphan feature in, but I was interested to hear why Logan felt differently.
<Ironholds> bsitu: would it be possible to make the metadata namespace-specific?
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: large parts of twinkle; for article patrolling purposes it supersists it
<Qcoder02> That's what I thought :)
<Ironholds> supersists?!
<Ironholds> that's not even a word.
<Ironholds> Supersedes.
<Logan_> fabriceflorin: Basically the same reasoning as that of Ironholds - it's a valuable issue in the mainspace, but not in the userspace.
<bsitu> ironholds: what do you mean by 'namespace-specific', a page is namespace specific and so is metadata
<kaldari> I think he means what data we surface
<bluerasberry> I just reviewed an article - the interface does not adapt to my screen resolution. It is displaying very small relative to the text in the article. What's up with that?
<fabriceflorin> Logan: good point. So a possible action item might be to only show Orphan as a possible issue if it's an article, but not if it's a user page?
<heatherw> as in "orphan" doesn't show up when in userspace
<Ironholds> bsitu: sure, but having "orphan" not appear as a warning in userspace, ferinstance
<Logan_> fabriceflorin: Correct; that is my suggestion.
<heatherw> lol
<Ironholds> bluerasberry: seriously? Weird. email me a screenshot and browser/OS data? okeyes@wikimedia.org
<Logan_> Okeyes.
<Ironholds> Logan_: yes, my name is pronounced okies
<Ironholds> and my initials are OK
<Ironholds> please, I am sure I have not heard this joke before :p
<kaldari> bluerasberry: We probably need to tweak the CSS to be more flexible for different sizes. Right now a lot of it is hard-coded to get everything to fit consistantly in a small size.
<fabriceflorin> Logan: Cool, sounds like this could be an easy thing for us to fix, since we seem to agree. We will file a Bugzilla bug for this.
<fabriceflorin> How many people here have actually used Page Curation already? What to you like most about it? What do you like least?
<Logan_> Awesome, thanks Fabrice. :)
<bsitu> Ironholds: yeah, we could control what metadata to surface
<Qcoder02> Question: How do I add 'personal' tags to the Curation tools system?
<Ironholds> bsitu: awesome. Bugzilla it is!
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: what do you mean?
<fabriceflorin> Logan: You're very welcome. We aim to please :)
<Qcoder02> On my FURME pallette I have a couple of tags which i use a lot which don't form part of the main set of tags
<Logan_> Ironholds: Op me?
<Qcoder02> How do I have a set of tags which are personal to myself, but which could still be added through the page curation tools?
Logan_ was opped (+o) by Ironholds
<tommorris> oh, hey, activity in -office.
<Utar> activate the shields!
<Ironholds> Qcoder02: "you don't"
<heatherw> I wonder about showing the number of unreviewed pages. at 30k it is overwhelming and it will never be zero anyway.
<legoktm> thanks Logan_
<Ironholds> tommorris: indeed
<Ironholds> Logan_: how do I +r?
<Qcoder02> Ironholds: That's fair enough
Channel mode set to +r by Logan_
<tommorris> heatherw: we cannot solve a problem unless we know about a problem.
<Qcoder02> But the help didn't say you couldn't add your own tags
<Logan_> Ironholds: /mode #wikimedia-office +r (for future reference)
<Ironholds> heatherw: that's actually more than the number of unreviewed pages; it'll be dropped when we cut out redirects
<Ironholds> Logan_; ta; not in MIRC, for some reason
<Logan_> np
<niko> hi there
<fabriceflorin> Thanks, Ironholds, for kicking out the intruders. Much appreciated.
<Ironholds> heatherw: also, I disagree
<Logan_> Hi niko.
<kaldari> Qcoder02: you can theoretically add your own tags by tweaking the JS configuration through your user JS file, but we haven't written any instructions for how to do this yet.
<Ironholds> all credit to Logan_
<Ironholds> heatherw: I've personally cleared the entire log single-handedly. twice.
<tommorris> the first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging it. otherwise you just bottle it up.
* Ironholds grins an evil grin
<fabriceflorin> Hey niko, welcome to our chat about Page Curation!
<Ironholds> this is why I was the top NPPer in 2010.
<bsitu> heatherw: a lot of those are redirects, we will get them off the queue after 30 days
<Qcoder02> kaladari: I would agree with a viewpoint that says the page curation tools are the "standard" set though...
<heatherw> how many are not? out of curiosity
<Qcoder02> .. hence allowing tweaking would break stuff
<Ironholds> heatherw: dunno! We'll find out when benny's patch is applied ;p
<heatherw> :D
<kaldari> The customizability was mainly put in so it could be ported to other wikis
<heatherw> Awesome work guys! I love it
<kaldari> rather than doing personal customization
<kaldari> but both are possible
<tommorris> the main thing I really want is WikiProject tagging. ;-)
<Ironholds> heatherw: if you'd said it sucks we would have had Words ;p
<Ironholds> tommorris: that would be pretty cool
<Ironholds> wikiproject and maybe category tagging
<Ironholds> want me to add it to the MoSCoW list?
<tommorris> category tagging is doable on page with HotCat.
<kaldari> or if you wanted to add all 946 stub tags :)
<Ironholds> truepoint, but patrolling new pages is doable with twinkle
<Ironholds> ;p
<Utar> Ironholds: nice, i tried to move the toolbar to the opposite side of screen and from next opened section it showed it on the right side instead of left
<tommorris> but if we could streamline wikiproject tagging: currently, I have to open up the talk page in a new tab, then remember all the relevant wikiproject templates. then save, then close tab, then use the curation toolbar
<Ironholds> Utar: yes, moving it isn't stored between pages, I'm afraid :)
<fabriceflorin> Could any of the current patrollers here share their experience with Page Curation -- compared to Special:NewPages and Twinkle. Which of the new features work better for you and why? Are we missing any important features from the old tools?
<Ironholds> tommorris: and "here is AJAX, hear me roar" would be better
<legoktm> tommorris: IIRC there used to be a userscript that would wikiproject tag, I'm just not sure what it was called
<Utar> Ironholds: no, i mean inside one page
LoganCloud was opped (+o) by Logan_
<Utar> Ironholds: just moved it to the other side of my screen
<Ironholds> and it pops back? :S
<tommorris> Ironholds: as one of the loudest and most annoying critics of bad Ajax, I shall say, the new pages/page curation stuff Doesn't Suck.
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: The next page in queue button is nicer than the old way
<Ironholds> legoktm: thanks! :)
<Ironholds> tommorris: love you too
<Ironholds> wb, Logan_
<fabriceflorin> Legoktm: Can you explain what worked better for you in the old tool?
<tommorris> most JavaScript is horribly ghastly because it fucks with the usual modal expectations of people who have spent 10-15 years in front of web browsers. that it doesn't makes me quite happy.
<Logan_> Thanks Ironholds.
<Ironholds> tommorris: come work for us to make JS not suck
<Ironholds> I'll pay you 30 pence an hour
<Ironholds> and all the aniseed you can eat.
<tommorris> no, I'd make the JavaScript suck worse. I'm a terrible JavaScript programmer.
<tommorris> anyway, keep on keeping on. I need to go eat food.
<Ironholds> in that case, go work for Wikia
<Ironholds> (sorry, low blow)
<Utar> Ironholds: how to show toolbar when the page is already reviewed_
<fabriceflorin> tommorris: Are there any specific JS issues in Page Curation that could be changed to address your concerns?
<Utar> ?
<Ironholds> Utar: the toolbar isn't appearing? it should
<Ironholds> fabriceflorin: he was saying that the JS in page curation does not suck
<Ironholds> and that this is a new and interesting experience for him as an internet user, who is used to it blowing chunks
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: when i used to NPP the old way I had the gadget in the sidebar that showed me the newest 10 pages that were reviewed, the nice part about that was i could see the titles of the pages before i reviewed them. very minor, but it was nice.
<Ironholds> which reminds me of an awful and politically incorrect joke I will not say.
<fabriceflorin> Ironholds: Thanks for the clarification -- and kudos to kaldari and bsitu for making that possible.
<Utar> Ironholds: I was reviewing one page, then closed it, clicked REVIEW for the second time
<Ironholds> oh, hmn.
<Utar> Ironholds: but the artiicle was reviewed in the meantime by someone else
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: also it was a one click mark as reviewed, here i have to click two buttons
<Ironholds> Utar: ahhh. I see
<Ironholds> so, you don't actually have to close it :)
<Utar> legoktm: poor mice
<Ironholds> the two arrows at the bottom move you to the next one
<Utar> Ironholds: so should I see the toolbar on already reviewed pages?
<Utar> or not?
<Ironholds> you should!
<Ironholds> kaldari?
<kaldari> one sec...
<fabriceflorin> legoktm: Thanks for explaining what you liked about that next page feature. I see your point. We can put this request in our wish list for our next upgrade. On a related note, do you every have difficulty getting back to NewPagesFeed? We were wondering if there should be a link in the interface to help you get back to it quickly.
<Utar> Ironholds: i don§t
<bsitu> ironholds: yes, you should see it as long as it's in the queue
<Utar> Ironholds: maybe I closed mistakenly the toolbar itslef
<Ironholds> Utar: can you see a "curate this article" link in the toolbox?
<Ironholds> if so, then yes :)
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: Is there a need to go back to the feed? I just always hit the next button
<legoktm> Also I just discovered there was a rate limit built in somewhere...
<kaldari> Utar: You should see the toolbar on already reviewed pages, unless they were created over 30 days ago
<fabriceflorin> Fluffernutter, Logan_, tommorris and any other experienced patrollers: are you now using Page Curation instead of Special:NewPages regularly? Or are you still using the old tool? If the latter, what's holding you back?
<Utar> Ironholds: ok, it seems I now lose toolbar for all pages
<Ironholds> legoktm: sometimes if you want to change the settings or whatever, it's useful to go back
<kaldari> if they were created over 30 days ago and reviewed, they are removed from the queue
<Ironholds> Utar: hmn. can you see the link in the toolbox?
<Fluffernutter> fabriceflorin: i've been off patrolling in general lately, but in my head the curation has replaced newpages for it
<Utar> Ironholds: now I don't have the toolbox
<Ironholds> Utar: what? in the sidebar, the section marked "toolbox"?
<Utar> Ironholds: so no, I can;t see the link
<Utar> Ironholds: It have dissapeared
<Ironholds> the menu for wikipedia disappeared?
<Utar> Ironholds: oh, the left toolbox
<Ironholds> yeah
<Ironholds> we have too many toolboxes and not enough words for them ;p
<Utar> I thought you meant Curation one
<fabriceflorin> Fluffernutter: Thanks! It's great to hear that you have mentally switched from page curation to newpages already. Our hope is that more people will migrate to that new tool over time. What do you think we can do to encourage that?
<Utar> left one - right one ?
<Ironholds> left one, yep
<Utar> Ironholds: ok, Curate is there
<Ironholds> then yeah, you closed it :)
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: Also if it could update the /CSD Log and /PROD Logs that Twinkle used…that would be nice
<Ironholds> click that, it should open again
<Fluffernutter> fabriceflorin: at some point you'll have to put the curation list where special:newpages is now...right?
<Ironholds> legoktm: it has its own log built into mediawiki :)
<legoktm> Ironholds: Forgot about that, even better
<Ironholds> legoktm: we should do a better job surfacing it, though
<Utar> Ironholds: when reviewed pages show green icon shouldn't soon-to-be-deleted ones show black
<Utar> Ironholds: in right Curation toolbar
<Ironholds> Utar: words out of fabriceflorin's mouth :)
<Ironholds> does it not highlight the trash-can icon?
<Ironholds> if not...we should do that.
<kaldari> oops, haven't gotten that one done yet
<fabriceflorin> legoktm: We have created two central logs to track page curation activity: the page curation log ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=pagetriage-curation ) and the deletion log ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=pagetriage-deletion ). How could we improve these logs to suit your needs?
<Utar> Ironholds: so when the icon changes from grey OK to green one for good pages it should change to balck bin icon for bad ones
<kaldari> maybe should bump the priority on the bug
<Ironholds> kaldari: indeedy
<Ironholds> Utar: but all the icon highlighting means "tis this has been reviewed
<legoktm> Quick bug I just noticed: Hidden categories like "Possible copyright violations" counts as a category, even though the article is uncategorized in reality
<Utar> Ironholds: so that you can always clearly see "already reviewed" and with whoch decision
<kaldari> upped it to high priority
<Ironholds> Utar: but if something has a CSD tag on it,m you can see the CSD tag ;p
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: No I think those are even better than Twinkle's current logs, I just wasn't aware of them
<Ironholds> legoktm: I remember discussing this with bsitu, I think
<Utar> Ironholds: not in the toolbar
<Ironholds> I'm trying to remember if (a) it was a pain in the arse to build or (b) this conversation actually happened only in my head
<fabriceflorin> Fluffernutter: We are now planning to keep both tools going in parallel, so we don't disrupt existing workflows. But at some point, yes, we may want to replace NewPages with NewPagesFeed. Do people here think it's a good idea?
<Utar> Ironholds: only in info section or in NPF
<Ironholds> Utar: what if the "deletion tag" icon was highlighted?
<Utar> Ironholds: I would like to use that icon in stead of the third icon (OK sign)
<fabriceflorin> legoktm: Glad these two new logs work for you. Sounds like we need to promote their existence a bit more. Perhaps we can include links to them in our project overview and help page?
<Ironholds> Utar: we shall look into it :). kaldari is doing...something...to the bug on it, I think
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: Yeah, I think that would be helpful
<fabriceflorin> legoktm: OK, we will update these two pages shortly. Thanks for bringing this up?
<Utar> Ironholds: all those other types of icons should be in Wikipedia:Page_Curation/Help too
<Utar> not only the grey ones
<Utar> or?
<fabriceflorin> What do you guys think about the idea of eventually replacing the current version of Special:NewPages with the New Pages Feed? Is that a good idea or not? If yes, when would be a good time to do this? If not, why should we keep them separate and for how long?
<Utar> fabriceflorin: is there any stat about their usage?
<Ironholds> I would not do it
<Ironholds> there is going to be a pool who will never want to use it
<Ironholds> we are not in a place where we can turn their help down :)
<Utar> fabriceflorin: like "NPF is used for 30 % of all reviews"
<legoktm> fabriceflorin: Is there any problem with leaving the old NewPages as it is but recommending new patrollers use the Feed? (kind of like it is now)
<Utar> Ironholds: agree
<Utar> fabriceflorin: see Commons and their Upload Wizard
<bluerasberry> I would prefer to deprecate the old feed so that new users do not accidentally see it first
<fabriceflorin> Utar: Here are the preliminary stats we are collecting for Page Curation (note that they are not entirely reliable yet, but should be working well by tomorrow): http://toolserver.org/~dartar/pc/
<kaldari> I'd love to see stats on UploadWizard vs. Special:Upload
<Utar> you can advise newbies to use NPF but some sort of people will still like the old design
<legoktm> I have to go now, but thanks for being extremely helpful Ironholds and fabriceflorin
<fabriceflorin> legoktm: You are very welcome. Your good insights are incredibly useful to us!
<Utar> ...in the same way I use the old "post Information here" type of uploading images to Commons
<Ironholds> Utar: agreed :)
<Ironholds> kaldari: vs. enwiki abberation.
<Ironholds> bluerasberry: we have; it's not linked at all now
<Ironholds> and some user was WP:BOLD and created "I am a Curator!" userboxes, which I thought was *awesome*.
<Utar> Ironholds: I just like to add all thos mld templates with one edit which I can't with Upload Wizard
<fabriceflorin> bluerasberry: Thanks. My sense is that eventually deprecating the old feed may make sense for new user -- but we don't want to disturb existing users who prefer the old tool, as Ironholds pointed out. So for now, we are keeping them separate, with a link to the new tool on the old page. I just wanted to get a sense of how people feel about this issue, so we can plan ahead.
<bluerasberry> so "curation" is a thing now, and that's what we call new page patrollers from now on?
<Ironholds> bluerasberry: the ones who use page curation, sure
<Utar> fabriceflorin: in January it seemed you are going to merge those two sites before the end of year
<Utar> fabriceflorin: now it seems like "in several years, maybe"
<fabriceflorin> We are using the term 'curation' as a general way to describe these types of activities. We expect that experienced users will continue to use 'patrol' to describe this process, but hope that over time we will start thinking about curation as a general activity. Page Curation is therefore the first in what we hope will be other curation tools, like File Curation for media files on Commons.
<fabriceflorin> Utar: We have no set plans to merge the two pages right now, but will periodiaclly ask the community about their preferences, so we can do what's best for the common good.
<Utar> fabriceflorin: agreed
<fabriceflorin> Any final questions before we wrap up this chat?
<Utar> blackness
<tommorris> fabriceflorin: I haven't done much newpage patrolling with either.
<tommorris> but that's because I've mostly been doing AfD and other patrols
<Utar> tommorris: feedback is just better, isn't it? ;P
<tommorris> generally
<fabriceflorin> tommorris: Thanks for the clarification. This is clearly a more specialized activity than, say article feedback, so we understand that it impacts fewer users. But we appreciate your suggestions so far, and wish you luck with AfD and other curation activities.
<tommorris> my curation mostly is in the form of being the grim reaper
<fabriceflorin> OK, folks, it's been great speaking with you again, and we're grateful as always for your helpful feedback. I'm going to head out now, but look forward to catching up on future chats.
<Ironholds> and I am going to go to...a meeting! yay!
<Ironholds> I'm all about bringing community members closer to us
<Ironholds> tommorris, Utar, I assign you the rest of today's meetings
<Ironholds> just doing my job.
<tommorris> We're here, we're queer and/or like beer, we edit Wikipedia.
<fabriceflorin> Our editor engagement team is now moving on to other tasks, and will be focusing on notifications and messaging for the next few months. We should have more to share with you about these projects very soon. Speak to you soon ...
<Ironholds> tommorris: you forgot the mandatory "get over it"
<fabriceflorin> tommorris: hehe. well said. an appropriate closure for this particular discussion ;o)
<Ironholds> I would amend fabriceflorin's comment to make clear we're gonna do some bugfixes before we depart ;p
<Ironholds> but there won't be any new features until we make a second pass next year
<fabriceflorin> Yes, good point. Okay folks, on that note, I'm outta here. See you next time!
<Ironholds> take care all :)