IRC office hours/Office hours 2013-05-13

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18:02:08 <andre__>	So, welcome to the IRC office hour about Bugzilla and bug management that will take place here in the next hour! Thanks for showing up!
18:02:16 <andre__>	I plan to talk a bit about the latest stuff that has been worked on, and plans for the future.
18:02:20 <andre__>	General info and documentation can be found on as usual.
18:02:24 <andre__>	So who is here for the office hour? Please raise your hands. :)
18:02:40 <andre__>	Don't be shy :)
18:02:42 *	valeriej raises hand
18:02:49 <andre__>	oh yay, hi valeriej!
18:02:54 <andre__>	Great to see you around!
18:03:08 <valeriej>	andre__: Hi! :D
18:03:38 <andre__>	So here's a link what I've been doing lately: but I'm going to summarize the most interesting stuff here.
18:03:54 <valeriej>	Great!
18:04:23 <andre__>	The most important and greatest achievement of the last weeks: We now have a Wikimedia Labs instance for Bugzilla at thanks to Ori, and he also puppetized Bugzilla (see ). 
18:04:29 <andre__>	This is pretty awesome as it helps to test code changes in a sane testing environment (Labs instance instead of private machines), and it will make deploying Bugzilla upgrades (e.g. upgrading from 4.2 to 4.4 and then redeploying our custom changes) way easier.
18:04:33 <andre__>	This was all done by Ori Livneh, so all kudos go to him!
18:04:55 <andre__>	Furthermore, the "Weekly Bug Summary" email on wikitech-l has seen quite some enhancements, like more correct data (cough) and now a list of most urgent issues.
18:05:36 <andre__>	Then, some taxonomy cleanup in Bugzilla has taken place, e.g. reports about the Search are now in three instead of four components in Bugzilla, and several mobile apps have been merged into one product. And Wikimedia Bugzilla's "See Also" field now also supports adding GitHub URLs and adding RequestTracker URLs.
18:06:19 <andre__>	I've been also drafting guidelines for Bugzilla adminship at as we (well, I at least) sometimes wondered what are good reasons why somebody should be an admin.
18:06:58 <andre__>	And of course I keep my Greasemonkey triagescripts updated here that anybody can use to save time when triaging bug reports:;a=summary
18:07:36 <andre__>	Oh, and we now have so-called "flags" in Bugzilla to mark bugfixes that should either be backported to the MediaWiki tarball releases (to be used by thrid parties), and backported to the software version that runs on the Wikimedia wikis (servers).
18:08:02 *	greg-g waves
18:08:10 <andre__>	Before it was a bit messy to find stuff for Mark (the tarball release manager) and Greg (the Wikimedia server deployment manager), so we all hope that this will help.
18:08:16 <andre__>	heja greg-g!
18:08:18 *	a930913 particles.
18:08:23 <andre__>	hi a930913!
18:08:27 <valeriej>	So with the labs instance, I can create a labs account and test out changes to the "Weekly Bug Summary"? I haven't been sure how to test changes on that.
18:09:00 <andre__>	valeriej, unfortunately the "Weekly Bug Summary" thingy is completely separate from the Bugzilla codebase :(
18:09:13 <andre__>	The code for that email resides here:;a=blob;f=templates/misc/bugzilla_report.php;hb=HEAD
18:09:18 <andre__>	and that's outside of Bugzilla itself
18:09:22 <valeriej>	andre__: Ah, ok. I see.
18:10:13 <andre__>	valeriej, for testing... hmm, yeah, that will be hard. I myself still have to play way more with Labs to see if I could just put up that script there and then run it from the shell against the Bugzilla database on the Labs instance. That would be perfect, but I highly assume that things won't be that easy
18:10:46 <andre__>	valeriej, so far I've tested it locally with a Bugzilla on my machine. Which isn't great either. But if you have something to test I'm glad to try it out for you :)
18:11:04 <valeriej>	andre__: Oh, thanks!
18:11:21 <andre__>	To continue with what's been going on (last item): And of course we have bugdays every other week that everybody is welcome to join, see for general info and for the past achievements.
18:12:10 <andre__>	As I wrote, you can find complete weekly summaries of bug management activity here: - I try to do things transparently, and I also hope that this helps to provide feedback
18:12:30 <andre__>	that's also why I try to document workflows on
18:12:49 <andre__>	I don't want bug management to look like rocket science that only insiders can do. Because it's not, everybody can help with that.
18:13:10 <andre__>	With regard to the task list and plans for next months, you can check
18:13:35 *	IH|away is now known as Ironholds
18:14:10 <andre__>	One nice thing I want to get landing in the next week is a better Bugzilla frontpage. Screenshot:
18:14:46 <andre__>	For those active in this channel, do the plans listed on feel right to you?
18:14:56 <andre__>	Anything missing that you want to see?
18:15:39 <andre__>	Heh. Silence means that you agree (or don't care) ;))
18:16:29 <andre__>	So that was my quick 15min update what's been going on in the last month, and what will happen soon. (as usual, a log will be available at after this office hour)
18:16:29 <Krenair>	andre__, so the admin policy thing, would I be right in assuming that you need to sign an NDA before you can become one?
18:16:50 <andre__>	Krenair: yes, that's what I was told. And that's actually how this whole debate started at some point
18:17:05 <Krenair>	Because it includes security access etc.
18:17:07 <Krenair>	You should probably put that on the page.
18:17:08 <valeriej>	I'm wondering if it would be helpful to promote your backlog somewhere to make it more clear that these are tasks that anyone can and is welcome to do...
18:17:22 <andre__>	Krenair, oh it's missing? Good point, I'll do that. Thanks!
18:18:59 <andre__>	valeriej, hmm yeah. Currently it's hidden as "Plans and ideas of things to do in bug management - help welcome!" under "For Bugzilla Administrators / the Bugwrangler" on
18:19:01 <andre__>	any ideas? :-/
18:19:45 <andre__>	Task list currently mentions for example "Document best practices in Bugzilla for developers and engineers to help them get the most out of Bugzilla, e.g. in a miniseries linked from mw:Bug management - anybody can do this!"
18:19:52 <andre__>	but I agree that this is rather hidden.
18:20:06 *	wctaiwan (~wctaiwan@wikipedia/wctaiwan) has left #wikimedia-office
18:20:27 <andre__>	Maybe I should restructure the backlog on in a way that makes it clearer which permissions are needed (from "everybody" up to "requires being admin")?
18:20:37 <valeriej>	Ah, I see. Yeah, and some of the doc stuff can be done by experienced triagers, not just admins.
18:20:46 <valeriej>	Yeah, that sounds good.
18:21:24 <andre__>	yeah, that would probably make sense. I'll try that, very good point!
18:21:33 *	andre__ adds it to his to-do list
18:22:26 <valeriej>	I'm giving you more stuff to do. I'll work on an item from the backlog to make up for it. :P
18:22:47 <andre__>	ah, I like good ideas. This is helpful. :)
18:26:04 <andre__>	hmm, no other comments? Any questions, ideas, criticism when it comes to Bugzilla and Wikimedia bugs? I'm happy to discuss anything, just speak up :)
18:26:25 <lizzard>	hi there !
18:26:36 <valeriej>	Hey lizzard!
18:26:43 <Theo10011>	What do you think of Gun control laws in the US?
18:27:00 <Theo10011>	You said anything :P
18:27:41 <Nnemo>	Bugzilla is a pain in the ass
18:28:00 <Nnemo>	I cannot write on it
18:28:11 <Nnemo>	I have something to tell to Siebrand about a bug
18:28:38 <andre__>	Hi lizzard! Welcome :)
18:29:01 <andre__>	Theo10011, no strong opinion on that, sorry :D
18:29:11 <andre__>	Nnemo, what exactly do you mean by "cannot write on it"?
18:29:35 <andre__>	Nnemo, could you elaborate?
18:30:25 <andre__>	Nnemo, are you logged in into Bugzilla?
18:30:31 <Nnemo>	no
18:30:47 <Nnemo>	well, it's closed
18:31:27 <andre__>	Nnemo: not sure if I understand what you mean. You can add comments in Bugzilla after creating an account, plus you can read everything (except for Security bugs) without an account, so I wouldn't call it closed
18:32:52 <andre__>	Nnemo, see for more info
18:33:16 <andre__>	but I can understand that it's annoying that it's a separate login, and that it requires an email address which will be visible to other logged-in users
18:34:41 <andre__>	the corresponding tickets are and by the way
18:34:59 <Nemo_bis>	Nnemo: langswitch still?
18:37:31 <Nnemo>	Nemo_bis, Siebrand has "improved" the presentation of the languages, after you have asked him, after I have asked you, but this does not work
18:37:53 <Nnemo>	When I see Siebrand around, I will tell him how to fix that
18:38:46 <andre__>	any bug number handy? I'd love to know more context
18:39:13 <Nnemo>	but, regarding the Template:LangSwitch, the problem I encounter is unrelated, I encountered it today, maybe you can help me
18:39:39 <Nemo_bis>	Nnemo: siebrand is always responsive on bugzilla, so if you want to add something to his todo list that's a good place
18:40:14 <Nemo_bis>	Nnemo: yes, I suspect it's not related to this office hour so maybe we could continue on #wikimedia-tech for instance
18:44:04 <andre__>	Any more questions, ideas, criticism when it comes to Bugzilla and Wikimedia bugs? I'm happy to discuss, please speak up :)
18:54:23 <andre__>	So, a few more minutes for your questions, ideas, criticism about bug management and Bugzilla.
18:56:41 <Nnemo>	Andre, this the bug :
18:57:05 <Nnemo>
18:57:08 <Nnemo>
18:57:56 <andre__>	ah, thanks
19:00:43 <andre__>	Alright, thanks everybody who joined this office hour, or just lurked. See you next time, and feel free to ping me on IRC if something comes to your mind! :)